Author Topic: Making Doubleshot Inserts  (Read 4016 times)

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Offline RoastPotatoes

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Making Doubleshot Inserts
« on: Sun, 09 August 2015, 06:13:55 »
Has anyone had any success creating doubleshot inserts?
I have not had great success.

Offline Findecanor

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Re: Making Doubleshot Inserts
« Reply #1 on: Sun, 09 August 2015, 11:30:09 »
Say what now?
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Offline RoastPotatoes

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Re: Making Doubleshot Inserts
« Reply #2 on: Sun, 09 August 2015, 12:16:35 »
Say what now?
I would like to make these

Offline CPTBadAss

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Re: Making Doubleshot Inserts
« Reply #3 on: Sun, 09 August 2015, 12:35:25 »
That's not really how doubleshot keycaps work. It's not like after you make them, you can separate the two shots and put yours in. It's called doubleshots because of how the injection molding works. Once it's done, the caps are one piece.
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Offline RoastPotatoes

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Re: Making Doubleshot Inserts
« Reply #4 on: Sun, 09 August 2015, 12:49:08 »
That's not really how doubleshot keycaps work. It's not like after you make them, you can separate the two shots and put yours in. It's called doubleshots because of how the injection molding works. Once it's done, the caps are one piece.
That is true. I am looking to make my own doubleshot keycaps. I am looking to make my own inserts to make my own legends. Then I'll do the second shot. I'm not swapping anything.



Offline CPTBadAss

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Re: Making Doubleshot Inserts
« Reply #5 on: Sun, 09 August 2015, 14:48:05 »
So you'd have to find a moldmaker or keycap maker to help you make tooling for custom legends. SP calls the part of the mold with the legends "inserts". You don't exactly make them in your basement.  You can try asking SP.

Just realized where you were going with this. You said doubleshots and I assumed you meant like SP or Cherry. You're talking about making custom legends on your custom keycaps. My bad. Try asking Binge. He's always helpful in these matters.
« Last Edit: Sun, 09 August 2015, 14:59:40 by CPTBadAss »
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Offline RoastPotatoes

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Re: Making Doubleshot Inserts
« Reply #6 on: Sun, 09 August 2015, 14:58:54 »
So you'd have to find a moldmaker or keycap maker to help you make tooling for custom legends. SP calls the part of the mold with the legends "inserts". You don't exactly make them in your basement.  You can try asking SP.
I'm currently trying it in my basement. I am interested in how they are made by someone like SP though.

Offline RoastPotatoes

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Re: Making Doubleshot Inserts
« Reply #7 on: Sun, 09 August 2015, 15:03:39 »
Bit rough at the moment



Offline RoastPotatoes

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Re: Making Doubleshot Inserts
« Reply #8 on: Sun, 09 August 2015, 20:42:42 »
It almost worked.



Offline Oobly

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Re: Making Doubleshot Inserts
« Reply #9 on: Mon, 10 August 2015, 05:13:30 »
The top surface of the insert needs to be the exact same shape as the keycap mold (you can see the curve on both the ones you showed). It also needs something to hold it in place when molding, preferably that it's held firmly between the front surface and back surface of the cap mold, so it's the whole thickness of the cap at at least a couple points, but with enough holes that the resin can flow everywhere. Will probably need more settling time / ultrasonic vibration / stronger vacuum to get rid of the bubbles.

Good attempt, though.
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Offline RoastPotatoes

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Re: Making Doubleshot Inserts
« Reply #10 on: Mon, 10 August 2015, 05:23:06 »
The top surface of the insert needs to be the exact same shape as the keycap mold (you can see the curve on both the ones you showed). It also needs something to hold it in place when molding, preferably that it's held firmly between the front surface and back surface of the cap mold, so it's the whole thickness of the cap at at least a couple points, but with enough holes that the resin can flow everywhere. Will probably need more settling time / ultrasonic vibration / stronger vacuum to get rid of the bubbles.

Good attempt, though.
I baked the clay in the mould, to try to get the shape of the keycap better. But I didn't want to push it down too much as it smushed the design.
I am trying to think of a way to make a mould which would pushing the insert but this would probably result in a thinner keycap.

Offline Oobly

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Re: Making Doubleshot Inserts
« Reply #11 on: Mon, 10 August 2015, 08:02:25 »
You could try making a "partial" mold that consists of just the top part of the cap. Then cut the legend out of that.
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Offline CPTBadAss

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Re: Making Doubleshot Inserts
« Reply #12 on: Mon, 10 August 2015, 08:03:16 »
Sorry for my misunderstanding earlier in the thread. This is looking really cool :).
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Offline RoastPotatoes

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Re: Making Doubleshot Inserts
« Reply #13 on: Mon, 10 August 2015, 08:19:34 »
Sorry for my misunderstanding earlier in the thread. This is looking really cool :).
No problem. I saw a post you made a while ago about doubleshot manufacturing and there was a video from SP. So I'm trying to replicate quite expensive machines.

Offline RoastPotatoes

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Re: Making Doubleshot Inserts
« Reply #14 on: Mon, 10 August 2015, 08:23:13 »
You could try making a "partial" mold that consists of just the top part of the cap. Then cut the legend out of that.
I'm sort of doing that now. I'm using clay in the mould non shaped and will bake that. So then I will have the curve of the keycap. I will then try and dremel out a legend.

Offline MAR82

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Re: Making Doubleshot Inserts
« Reply #15 on: Mon, 10 August 2015, 08:31:35 »
It almost worked.
Show Image

Show Image

Show Image


Nice work!
I think this has to be the first time I've seen someone try to make homemade doubleshots

Offline keshley

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Re: Making Doubleshot Inserts
« Reply #16 on: Mon, 10 August 2015, 09:04:08 »
I'm sort of doing that now. I'm using clay in the mould non shaped and will bake that. So then I will have the curve of the keycap. I will then try and dremel out a legend.

Could you not, for a lack of a better term, cookie cutter out the injection shape prior to baking them? Or does that pose problems keeping the overall key shape?
  
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Offline RoastPotatoes

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Re: Making Doubleshot Inserts
« Reply #17 on: Mon, 10 August 2015, 09:12:07 »


I'm sort of doing that now. I'm using clay in the mould non shaped and will bake that. So then I will have the curve of the keycap. I will then try and dremel out a legend.

Could you not, for a lack of a better term, cookie cutter out the injection shape prior to baking them? Or does that pose problems keeping the overall key shape?

That was my first attempt but as you press the injection shape in to get the curve. The design becomes distorted. I think this could be honed down, but I don't think this is the optimum way.

Offline MAR82

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Re: Making Doubleshot Inserts
« Reply #18 on: Mon, 10 August 2015, 09:18:43 »
Maybe you could try doing some clear top caps, and just have the insert "floating" in the clear part of the cap (so not to have to do any curve or have it flush with the top surface of the cap)

Offline RoastPotatoes

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Re: Making Doubleshot Inserts
« Reply #19 on: Mon, 10 August 2015, 09:36:54 »
Maybe you could try doing some clear top caps, and just have the insert "floating" in the clear part of the cap (so not to have to do any curve or have it flush with the top surface of the cap)
I don't have any clear resin but this would work.

Offline Oobly

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Re: Making Doubleshot Inserts
« Reply #20 on: Mon, 10 August 2015, 09:43:14 »
You could try making a "partial" mold that consists of just the top part of the cap. Then cut the legend out of that.
I'm sort of doing that now. I'm using clay in the mould non shaped and will bake that. So then I will have the curve of the keycap. I will then try and dremel out a legend.

Nice. Hope it works.
Buying more keycaps,
it really hacks my wallet,
but I must have them.

Offline RoastPotatoes

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Re: Making Doubleshot Inserts
« Reply #21 on: Mon, 10 August 2015, 18:31:49 »

This is the part dremelled part hand carved one. This one should fit the curvature of the keycap. But I am worried it might have flattened out somewhere in the process. I am currently moulding this so should see some results tomorrow.

Offline RoastPotatoes

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Re: Making Doubleshot Inserts
« Reply #22 on: Tue, 11 August 2015, 03:36:18 »
Initial impressions suggest that this works.

I was actually impressed that it worked this well.

Offline MAR82

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Re: Making Doubleshot Inserts
« Reply #23 on: Tue, 11 August 2015, 04:20:03 »
Hey dude, you're making some great progress in doubleshot home cap making.
But get some rest! You said 9 hours ago that you were making the mould and now you're already posting results  :eek:

There is still a lot of work to be done before I'd be ready to pay money for one, but it has to start somewhere and I think you're doing a great job. Keep up the good wor!  :thumb:

Do you have any pictures of the inside/underside of these caps?

Offline RoastPotatoes

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Re: Making Doubleshot Inserts
« Reply #24 on: Tue, 11 August 2015, 04:33:05 »
Hey dude, you're making some great progress in doubleshot home cap making.
But get some rest! You said 9 hours ago that you were making the mould and now you're already posting results  :o

There is still a lot of work to be done before I'd be ready to pay money for one, but it has to start somewhere and I think you're doing a great job. Keep up the good wor!  :thumb:

Do you have any pictures of the inside/underside of these caps?
Don't worry I just slept :)


I started this not thinking I would get anywhere so I used a mould that was broken. So the underside doesn't have a correctly formed stem.  But this is the mould I am using

I'm getting into fancy rectangular stems!

Offline azhdar

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Re: Making Doubleshot Inserts
« Reply #25 on: Tue, 11 August 2015, 04:39:31 »
Remember than this of stem don't fit on Novatouch.

Offline RoastPotatoes

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Re: Making Doubleshot Inserts
« Reply #26 on: Tue, 11 August 2015, 04:40:31 »
Remember than this of stem don't fit on Novatouch.
I never thought about that.

Offline MAR82

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Re: Making Doubleshot Inserts
« Reply #27 on: Tue, 11 August 2015, 04:41:35 »
Don't worry I just slept :)


I started this not thinking I would get anywhere so I used a mould that was broken. So the underside doesn't have a correctly formed stem.  But this is the mould I am using
Show Image

I'm getting into fancy rectangular stems!

Good, now I'm reassured that you are not doing this for 24h straight  ;)

The reason I was asking for a picture of the underside, was because I wanted to know if the insert was still visible.
How do you hold the insert down when pouring the second shot of resin? Are you holding it down from within the stem hole?

Offline Oobly

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Re: Making Doubleshot Inserts
« Reply #28 on: Tue, 11 August 2015, 04:43:18 »
Not bad, some definite progress.
Buying more keycaps,
it really hacks my wallet,
but I must have them.

Offline RoastPotatoes

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Re: Making Doubleshot Inserts
« Reply #29 on: Tue, 11 August 2015, 04:45:14 »
Don't worry I just slept :)


I started this not thinking I would get anywhere so I used a mould that was broken. So the underside doesn't have a correctly formed stem.  But this is the mould I am using
Show Image

I'm getting into fancy rectangular stems!

Good, now I'm reassured that you are not doing this for 24h straight  ;)

The reason I was asking for a picture of the underside, was because I wanted to know if the insert was still visible.
How do you hold the insert down when pouring the second shot of resin? Are you holding it down from within the stem hole?


This is going to be the next problem. I think I can get away by cutting down the stem so it fits perfectly leaving no space for the insert to move. Since I usually infill my keycaps there is nothing I can easy rest the insert on without creating a convoluted insert design.

Offline Oobly

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Re: Making Doubleshot Inserts
« Reply #30 on: Tue, 11 August 2015, 06:05:56 »
My thought would be to make it the full height so it touches the upper mold, but cut horizontal grooves in it for the resin to flow.
Buying more keycaps,
it really hacks my wallet,
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Offline OverKill

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Re: Making Doubleshot Inserts
« Reply #31 on: Tue, 11 August 2015, 07:29:05 »
Hi RP,

So I have attached a picture of a doubleshot cap. Hopefully this explanation will help you with your molding process. 

Below you can see the brown (legend) material on the underside of the cap, the idea here is for the stem side of the of the mold to PUSH against the first shot side to keep  the legends in place while doing the second shot. If you aren't pushing  the first shot up against the (top of the keycap) face of the mold for your second shot you will get mixed results as you have seen. If you use the stem side to PUSH it against  the other side of the mold then you will at least have a better time getting the outline to come through on the top side of  the keycap. Basically, make the  thickness of  the first shot (legend)  slightly thicker  then the thickness of your usual keycap, and put lines or holes in the back side of it in order for the material  to flow in to the crevices properly. Hope this helps and good luck!

http://i.imgur.com/bNjWh.jpg

Offline RoastPotatoes

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Re: Making Doubleshot Inserts
« Reply #32 on: Tue, 11 August 2015, 07:59:17 »
Hi RP,

So I have attached a picture of a doubleshot cap. Hopefully this explanation will help you with your molding process. 

Below you can see the brown (legend) material on the underside of the cap, the idea here is for the stem side of the of the mold to PUSH against the first shot side to keep  the legends in place while doing the second shot. If you aren't pushing  the first shot up against the (top of the keycap) face of the mold for your second shot you will get mixed results as you have seen. If you use the stem side to PUSH it against  the other side of the mold then you will at least have a better time getting the outline to come through on the top side of  the keycap. Basically, make the  thickness of  the first shot (legend)  slightly thicker  then the thickness of your usual keycap, and put lines or holes in the back side of it in order for the material  to flow in to the crevices properly. Hope this helps and good luck!

http://i.imgur.com/bNjWh.jpg
Thanks that was helpful. At the moment cutting line into the insert.

Offline Zorberema

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Re: Making Doubleshot Inserts
« Reply #33 on: Tue, 11 August 2015, 14:35:06 »
So you've made a mold for the "B", and then while molding the whole cap the "B" attaches to the cap? Is that how doubbleshots always work?

Offline RoastPotatoes

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Re: Making Doubleshot Inserts
« Reply #34 on: Tue, 11 August 2015, 16:56:19 »
So you've made a mold for the "B", and then while molding the whole cap the "B" attaches to the cap? Is that how doubbleshots always work?
You put the b inside the mould. Then you inject the resin or plastic.

Offline sheinow

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Re: Making Doubleshot Inserts
« Reply #35 on: Tue, 11 August 2015, 18:05:13 »
Those caps look like keycap shape moulded deserts. I'm really interested to see what comes out of your experiments, Good luck!

Offline RoastPotatoes

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Re: Making Doubleshot Inserts
« Reply #36 on: Tue, 11 August 2015, 18:54:00 »

This was pretty much perfect. Apart from being an imperfect cast. The double shot part is very crisp

Offline MAR82

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Re: Making Doubleshot Inserts
« Reply #37 on: Wed, 12 August 2015, 02:17:59 »
Show Image

This was pretty much perfect. Apart from being an imperfect cast. The double shot part is very crisp

Definitely look a lot cleaner
Did you do it any different this time around?

Offline RoastPotatoes

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Re: Making Doubleshot Inserts
« Reply #38 on: Wed, 12 August 2015, 09:34:56 »
Show Image

This was pretty much perfect. Apart from being an imperfect cast. The double shot part is very crisp

Definitely look a lot cleaner
Did you do it any different this time around?
I remade the underside mould and I put a jar ontop to hold it down. This really pressed everything into place

Offline Oobly

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Re: Making Doubleshot Inserts
« Reply #39 on: Thu, 13 August 2015, 03:08:39 »
Show Image

This was pretty much perfect. Apart from being an imperfect cast. The double shot part is very crisp

Looking good! I'd call that a definite success :)
Buying more keycaps,
it really hacks my wallet,
but I must have them.

Offline MAR82

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Re: Making Doubleshot Inserts
« Reply #40 on: Thu, 13 August 2015, 03:17:56 »
I'd say that the next step would be to have a master "insert" 3D printed