Incoming!

[ironcoder]

I'm the happy and broke owner of 2 brand spanking new FKBN87M/EBs and associated other goodies.

The stuff arrived in-country last week but didn't come until today.

Thanks to all the forum members for helping me out with the decision. I'll report back in a few days.

Thanks to Majestouch for supporting the forum and handling international orders. Mine was packed very nicely.

[ironcoder]

Ok I'm replying to myself since you guys are all fawning at the Realforce 103 and yawning at my lowly Filcos! Wow this is a great keyboard. I feel like I'm typing much faster than on my about-to-seize-up rubber dome.

[AndrewZorn]

i would not be so fast to assume that the topre switch gets more attention than cherry brown around here

[ironcoder]

That was a joke, son!

How did you get your 104 for 50 bucks? That is a deal and a half!

[AndrewZorn]

ebay
70 total for keyboard + the $40 filco wrist rest
so i appropriated it in my mind as 50+20 (incl shipping)
EDIT i am fixing this though, now, as that seems a little too wrist-rest centric (my reasoning at the time was i was looking for a $20 tops wristrest, 40 was too much, etc)
- exact total was 72
- elite has the 104 for $104
- elite has the wrist rest for $40
- elite shipping estimate? im gussing $20, as i was quoted 17.xx for a HHKB
- thats 164 from elite
- 104/164 (keyboard from all) is .634
- .634*72 (keyboard of total ebay) is $45.66
- i guess i was pretty close
- shipping: 20/164 = .122, .122*72 = 8.78, .634*8.78 (keyboard of of shipping) = 5.57
- so about 51 shipped (i wont use decimals because of how many times i rounded off)
- wow that WAS really close
- editing sig anyway for truthiness
- EDIT no i shouldnt because there is no way this big box was shipped to iraq for $8.78, regardless of comparison to elite, which makes no sense for shipping in the first place
- so i stand by my original figure of 50 and accept that that is extremely close to the real answer, whatever it is

just like my printed white HHKB though, it will always be second best to what i really wanted, an 87key with NKRO

/the price you pay i guess
//rather, the price you DONT pay...

[ironcoder]

LOL Ripster, you are too much!

[ironcoder]

Andrew I learned nothing from that exposition. Except you got 144 bucks worth of stuff (before shipping) for 70 dollars including shipping!

Now how does that happen

[AndrewZorn]

yeah but i just had to figure out what i "got the keyboard for" and what i "got the wristrest for" and "how much shipping was"

because 50 vs 104 for a keyboard is nice to know, but 72 for a bunch of stuff from ebay is ambiguous

EDIT and how?  search ebay daily up until about a week ago
find deal
tell the guy its more than i want but good deal anyway
then he actually lowers the price
buy + bing cashback

[msiegel]

Penny wise, pound stupid.. add the cost of all those manhours and it ain't such a good deal. Imagine you spend all that time making money... but I guess being cheap and loud about it is more fun.

that assumes there's a supply of paying work, free for the taking.

also, being cheap and loud can sometimes help others to save money

[AndrewZorn]

shopping online becomes man hours?

and yes, id say even considering the HOURS i spent that i still saved money

cant say this with all my purchases
but its more of a principle thing
even though i really did want to give elitekeyboards my money

[quadibloc]

Penny wise, pound stupid.. add the cost of all those manhours and it ain't such a good deal. Imagine you spend all that time making money... but I guess being cheap and loud about it is more fun.

Your post is premised on an economic fallacy. Generally speaking, people don't have the choice to spend as much of their time making money as they wish. If they're lucky, they can find a full-time job.

Because opportunities to convert labor into wealth are in limited supply, it can indeed make sense for many people to cut their children's hair, grow their own vegetables, or at least shovel their own sidewalks and mow their own lawns, because even if the efficiency at which those activities convert labor into wealth is lower than that of their regular job, there is no reason to believe that they have better opportunities at the margin to convert additional labor to wealth.

It is for the same reason that it is rational for a country which has unemployment to put its own people to work making things that could be imported cheaply instead. What allows rich investors to make money quickly in normal times is not the same as what is conducive to social stability, national wealth, and military preparedness.

[msiegel]

well said

[msiegel]

Yada yada, bet you are on your ass and not even trying.

good comeback, but i'll abstain from arguing further

[AndrewZorn]

i wont... i am deployed in iraq.  i am legally forbidden from a secondary job/income.  my primary income is fixed and not based on hourly work.  i dont mean that this is some exception, as i would have done the same thing at home, but if nothing else, in THIS situation, it was the most efficient way to do it.

[msiegel]

i believe webwit owes you a sheepish apology

[AndrewZorn]

theres no reason that my situation should have been considered normal or expected
just elaborating on the "there isnt always free work paying your normal rate, doing something more enjoyable than shopping around (which most people do on their free time anyway)" available

/no matter what, still proud of the fact that i have a HHKB, majestouch, at101, and two DT225 for less than the cost of a single normally-priced HHKB

[msiegel]

that is some damn fine shopping

[ironcoder]

Penny wise, pound stupid.. add the cost of all those manhours and it ain't such a good deal. Imagine you spend all that time making money... but I guess being cheap and loud about it is more fun.

It depends whether you actually have to pay a secretary to do the searches or you can do them while you're doing something else (like your day job).

There is nothing honorable about throwing your hard earned money away and nothing shameful about spending it wisely and getting the best deal.

In the mix should also be a consideration of good service and supporting businesses whose practices and policies you agree with. I make a point to vote with my wallet. I don't always (maybe even not usually) go with the lowest bidder, but I don't go with the high bidder either just to feel proud of myself. I go out of my way to patronize firms that give me good service, even if it costs a little more, and I won't buy at crappy businesses even if I save a ton of money.

If I have nothing but crappy vendors to choose from as is often the case over here, I choose the best deal. It's worth looking for and I don't care that I spend some time doing it.

[ironcoder]

that is some damn fine shopping

What he said!

[ironcoder]

Damn beach programmers! At least bring an umbrella and a table next time!

[AndrewZorn]

Next topic: how to keep sand out your keyboards.

at first i was using an 8x11 piece of paper over my hhkb.  last night i finally got around to making a cardboard version of the plexi keyboard roof, it is pretty awesome.

the filco came with a thin plastic cover, but i shipped it home with a bunch of other stuff because i didnt have room for the box (with the other stuff i am coming home with, that is).  seemed to make sense to keep the cover in the box, because my filco will be in a bag that stays WITH ME, and i didnt want to damage something so delicate.
so right now the filco stays in a backpack when not in use (which is most of the time).

[ironcoder]

The Filco covers aren't really that great. They're a loose fit over the top and bottom keys and the sides are open. They should have 4 sides and a little closer fit. All the rest of the stuff I got (keyboards, wrist rest) have a super high quality feel. I feel the keyboard roofs are overpriced and not up to Filco standards.

I live in a mountainous desert area and while these will help a few small improvements would make a big difference in usefulness.

Andrew maybe you are on to something, the el-cheapo form-fitting plastic used inside the original packaging may be a better deal than the plexiglass roofs!

[itlnstln]

The Filco covers aren't really that great. They're a loose fit over the top and bottom keys and the sides are open. They should have 4 sides and a little closer fit. All the rest of the stuff I got (keyboards, wrist rest) have a super high quality feel. I feel the keyboard roofs are overpriced and not up to Filco standards.
 
I live in a mountainous desert area and while these will help a few small improvements would make a big difference in usefulness.
 
Andrew maybe you are on to something, the el-cheapo form-fitting plastic used inside the original packaging may be a better deal than the plexiglass roofs!

I could be wrong, but aren't the keyboard rooves made by a third-party (Bird, IIRC) and are fairly generic in terms of fit?

[ironcoder]

Maybe so but Filco or should I say elitekeyboards is selling them. They should demand better as it is not up to their standards.

[AndrewZorn]

wow, and i thought i was just being cheap.  didnt want to pay $30 for a plexiglass box.  i thought they would be awesome, and with the whole cardboard thing, thought it might have actually been worth it.

when i get home i will be making a mouse+keyboard roof (for hhbk and mouse) and my filco will be on a pull-out drawer below (which should greatly reduce the dust)

EDIT i do really like my wrist rest though.  might even be worth $40 (but as mentioned before, i was spending "$20" on it, which seems about what a normal one costs, so it feels like a great value).  it is great... only complaint is that it has a tendency to flex, even with its strong base, but im starting to think that has a lot to do with using it on an uneven surface.  the one i have (full size) is long enough to use for my keyboard AND mouse (because of HHKB) but i cant get used to my wrist being so high when i am used to using my mouse lazy-carpal-tunnel-inducing-style.  only reason i can use it on a keyboard is because i got so used to the integrated G15 rest.

EDIT2 i keep hearing the rest is supposed to be 'memory foam', but i cant imagine this is true.  it is very firm, which i do prefer, but i basically have to press down with my thumb to get any significant 'give' out of the rest.
i think the cost just comes from the fact that it is real leather, not pleather (right?).

[ironcoder]

I think it's a very attractive and well made pad with tough stitching, firm foam, a non-slip base and just the right size for the keyboard. At first I thought 40 bucks was high but now that I have it I'm satisfied that it's a fair price for a really nice item. I've had and burned up enough gel pads and foam pads over the years to have spent 40 bucks on crap that has disintegrated. If this one holds up it will be money well spent.

I have the one sized for the 87 key keyboards I bought and I don't use it except on a flat surface, but it seems very stiff to me. I may even buy another one when I start using my second keyboard regularly. Right now my office is a complete mess and I can't even use most of my boxes.

I guess what I like about this pad aside from the construction is the scale. It seems one of those nice combinations of low key aesthetics that is also very functional. It doesn't scream out at you, hey look at me, I'm a 40 dollar pad, it just sits there quietly doing its job. A lot to be said for that approach. I like restraint in design and I think whoever did this one got it spot on.

[AndrewZorn]

i wouldnt go as far as to say its durability justifies its price (i only remember a single rubber/fabric rest through my whole childhood, they are cheap) but the leather should hold up very well, almost wish it came in a natural brown so it would get that 'old' look

[ironcoder]

Send it to me and I'll brown it up for you in the desert. Or leave it outside where you are!

Better yet, get the guy who did the camo mod to his keyboard to make you a matching set.....

I use my machines 12-14 hours a day so I burn up a lot of stuff like mice, pads, etc. I hope these keyboards will last! Now off to find me some trackmen...