Author Topic: [IC] CLASSIC SPACE - SA with Custom Font - MD Poll Up!  (Read 70939 times)

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Offline CQ_Cumbers

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[IC] CLASSIC SPACE - SA with Custom Font - MD Poll Up!
« on: Mon, 10 August 2015, 13:24:04 »



Render by thesiscamper

Please vote on our Massdrop Poll!

This is Classic Space, an innovative new Lego-inspired SA R3 keycap set design designed by CQCumbers and Oobly, with help from the Geekhack community. Lego Space, with its distinctive bright blue, gray, and trans yellow color scheme, has been a popular theme among Lego enthusiasts since its introduction over 30 years ago, and this set aims to bring the colorful, retro-futuristic charm of these sets to your keyboard. What makes "Classic Space" special, however, is that it features the first non-Gorton font for SA keycaps (inspired by Eurostile Extended), a feat made possible through a combination of numerous custom doubleshot ABS legends and Signature Plastic's new SA dye-sublimated PBT process, which this set will be among the first to use. It also includes SP's rarely seen translucent polycarbonate "highlight" keys, recalling the famous Lego trans yellow windshields, which will be made for the first time with a glossy finish.

Set Details
  • Uniform SA Row 3 profile
  • First non-Gorton Modified font on SA keycaps & first community set with SA PBT and polycarbonate keys
  • Dye-sublimated SA PBT alphas in light gray (GEC) with black legends
  • Custom doubleshot ABS modifiers in blue (BDH) with white (WCK) legends
  • Translucent polycarbonate "highlight keys" in yellow (color matched to Lego), blank
  • Alternate dye-sublimated SA PBT "highlight keys" in yellow (YAM) with black legends

Current Kit Layout

See images of what is included in each kit on Keyboard Layout Editor
  • Base TKL Kit (covers standard TKL board, required for alphas)
  • Numpad Kit (covers standard numpad)
  • Novelty Kit (face, serial number, and logo novelties)
  • Alternate Modifiers Kit (different mod colors)
  • Nonstandard Layouts Kit (covers nonstandard bottom row layouts, HUNT homing keys)
  • Planck Kit (contains blank mods for Planck compatibility)
  • Ergodox Kit (contains blank mods for Ergodox compatibility)

I have verified with Signature Plastics that everything here is feasible. This set would not have been possible without the work of Oobly, who designed a large portion of Classic Space and did all of the earlier renders, livingspeedbump, who guided me through the process of making a set, Melissa from SP, who answered the numerous questions required to make this innovative set possible, and thesiscamper, who did the wonderful renders you see here. Most of all I am indebted to the Geekhack community, and I cannot thank the people on this thread enough for the information, feedback, and help they have provided over the course of this set's development, which has taken nearly a year and a half at this point.



Render by thesiscamper


Lego Galaxy Explorer (1979), the inspiration for this set
« Last Edit: Sat, 17 December 2016, 08:59:58 by CQ_Cumbers »

Offline livingspeedbump

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Re: [IC] CLASSIC SPACE - DSA Keycaps
« Reply #1 on: Mon, 10 August 2015, 15:39:54 »
I'm interested  :thumb:

Can you post some pics of the lego kits that inspired this?
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Offline theanyday

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Re: [IC] CLASSIC SPACE - DSA Keycaps
« Reply #2 on: Mon, 10 August 2015, 17:14:30 »
You seriously had to do this at a time when my wallet is strained? My love for Lego and Keyboards combined!? Ugh!  :-X Seriously tho, I love it.
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Offline Bloo

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Re: [IC] CLASSIC SPACE - DSA Keycaps
« Reply #3 on: Mon, 10 August 2015, 18:23:28 »
People are going to come up with some absolutely sick novelties for this one.  Also, legos are abs.

Offline CQ_Cumbers

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Re: [IC] CLASSIC SPACE - DSA Keycaps
« Reply #4 on: Mon, 10 August 2015, 18:58:42 »
People are going to come up with some absolutely sick novelties for this one.  Also, legos are abs.

I realize, but I thought the custom font, which emulates the look of the font used on the original sets, was worth changing the material for (Custom fonts are a lot cheaper with PBT Dyesub). Essentially, I'm going for the looks of the original legos, rather than the actual texture and feel of lego bricks (Is PBT less painful to step on, too? That could be an advantage). Besides, the feel of the ABS plastic used in keycaps doesn't immediately bring to mind the feeling of glossy plastic legos anyways, at least for me. It might be possible to make glossy, lego like ABS keycaps, but I don't know how many people would like typing on them over the long term, and I believe it would also inflate the price, but I'm not sure on that point.

Offline PikKirby

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Re: [IC] CLASSIC SPACE - DSA Keycaps
« Reply #5 on: Mon, 10 August 2015, 23:23:18 »
Aside from all the controversy concerning Cospar; I still was waiting for something blue and space-themed... here it is!

I think it looks great. I'm especially a fan of the Classic Space Logo for the esc key. (Are there any other planned cosmetic keys?)


I really hope this ends up getting a GB. Best of luck Q_Cumbers :)


Offline Oobly

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Re: [IC] CLASSIC SPACE - DSA Keycaps
« Reply #6 on: Tue, 11 August 2015, 07:27:51 »
I'm in two minds about this.

On the one hand I love the concept, but on the other I feel the profile is wrong, the texture is wrong, the material is wrong and some of the colours are wrong to really match the concept.

I've come up with a more "matching" concept set, but now I don't know what to do. On the one hand I'd like to start my own IC for it, so I can then control how it ends up, but on the other hand, the inspiration for it came from this IC, so I shouldn't do that. I'm worried that if I share my whole concept here in the hopes the OP runs with it, that some parts of it will be left out or changed too much it won't be the set I truly crave.

I'm very passionate about this concept, since these sets were my favourite toys when I was growing up and I was was always mega excited at Christmas and birthdays to see if I'd get one. I love the way Benny even had the broken front piece on his helmet... that was always a weak spot on the figures.
Buying more keycaps,
it really hacks my wallet,
but I must have them.

Offline THSdrummer

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Re: [IC] CLASSIC SPACE - DSA Keycaps
« Reply #7 on: Tue, 11 August 2015, 07:29:10 »
I'm interested.  :thumb:

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Offline Oobly

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Re: [IC] CLASSIC SPACE - DSA Keycaps
« Reply #8 on: Tue, 11 August 2015, 07:45:44 »
Concept shared with OP... let's see where this goes :)
Buying more keycaps,
it really hacks my wallet,
but I must have them.

Offline Blackhawk

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Re: [IC] CLASSIC SPACE - DSA Keycaps
« Reply #9 on: Tue, 11 August 2015, 07:54:23 »
I love the concept and feel that the color scheme could translate really well. However, the profile is not for me. I'm interested in seeing where this goes.

Offline romevi

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Re: [IC] CLASSIC SPACE - DSA Keycaps
« Reply #10 on: Tue, 11 August 2015, 10:42:46 »
Sure; why not?

Re: [IC] CLASSIC SPACE - DSA Keycaps
« Reply #11 on: Tue, 11 August 2015, 13:07:40 »
Definitely interested

Offline just66in

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Re: [IC] CLASSIC SPACE - DSA Keycaps
« Reply #12 on: Wed, 12 August 2015, 06:44:40 »
Loving the color combination. This would be the perfect set for me to try DSA profile.

Offline Zanduby

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Re: [IC] CLASSIC SPACE - DSA Keycaps
« Reply #13 on: Wed, 12 August 2015, 08:09:22 »
Interested to put on my  new blue Ducky One.


Looking at this again, I think it could use a touch of red. To match the LEGO theme.
« Last Edit: Wed, 12 August 2015, 09:58:27 by Zanduby »

Offline nubbinator

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Re: [IC] CLASSIC SPACE - DSA Keycaps
« Reply #14 on: Wed, 12 August 2015, 09:50:54 »

Offline CQ_Cumbers

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Re: [IC] CLASSIC SPACE - DSA Keycaps
« Reply #15 on: Wed, 12 August 2015, 11:01:35 »
Just gonna leave this here:

https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=62327.0

I did not see Cospar prior to designing this set (I am new to the community), but though the color scheme does have similarities, it is lighter in color overall and takes inspiration from different sources than mine. While Cospar was SA sculpted, this keyset is designed to be uncountoured. Also, its group buy was cancelled, so it doesn't really function as an alternative to Classic Space anyways.

Offline stoic-lemon

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Re: [IC] CLASSIC SPACE - DSA Keycaps
« Reply #16 on: Wed, 12 August 2015, 11:10:06 »
Just gonna leave this here:

https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=62327.0
Yeah, since that never even went ahead I see no problem here.

I did not see Cospar prior to designing this set (I am new to the community), but though the color scheme does have similarities, it is lighter in color overall and takes inspiration from different sources than mine. While Cospar was SA sculpted, this keyset is designed to be uncountoured. Also, its group buy was cancelled, so it doesn't really function as an alternative to Classic Space anyways.


Offline CQ_Cumbers

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Re: [IC] CLASSIC SPACE - SA Keycaps (Major Changes)
« Reply #17 on: Wed, 12 August 2015, 18:59:29 »
Some changes have been made to the keyset with the help of Oobly, so please check out the updates on the original post and on the keyboard layout editor link there if you have not already done so. Is there anything you agree with/disagree with? Are you more or less interested now vs before? Have we overlooked something, or is there anything we should add? Suggestions for child sets or novelty keys? If you are interested in the set, please comment. I would love to know what you think.

Offline Elrick

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Re: [IC] CLASSIC SPACE - DSA Keycaps
« Reply #18 on: Wed, 12 August 2015, 19:20:04 »
Just gonna leave this here:

https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=62327.0

Other than having a similar shaded Colour-way, this set doesn't match Cospar at all.  First off CQ has used a different font (not bad actually, sick of seeing Cherry fonts now) for his key-set and he kept the standard two colour choice (good for keeping costs down).

Plus no added Logos other than the stand alone ESC key, again great at lowering the price - so this set could be marketed towards anyone wanting to break their virginal position, when they try out a larger than life SA Profile for their TKL.

Like his design trying to keep the basics in check and trying out a NEW font to represent a slightly different key-set from the usual stuff being thrust upon us all.  Don't forget that Cospar never got made in the end so CQ's design should go forth to SP's factory for completion  :thumb: .

Enough said.......

Offline CQ_Cumbers

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Re: [IC] CLASSIC SPACE - DSA Keycaps
« Reply #19 on: Wed, 12 August 2015, 19:29:00 »
Just gonna leave this here:

https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=62327.0

Other than having a similar shaded Colour-way, this set doesn't match Cospar at all.  First off CQ has used a different font (not bad actually, sick of seeing Cherry fonts now) for his key-set and he kept the standard two colour choice (good for keeping costs down).

Plus no added Logos other than the stand alone ESC key, again great at lowering the price - so this set could be marketed towards anyone wanting to break their virginal position, when they try out a larger than life SA Profile for their TKL.

Like his design trying to keep the basics in check and trying out a NEW font to represent a slightly different key-set from the usual stuff being thrust upon us all.  Don't forget that Cospar never got made in the end so CQ's design should go forth to SP's factory for completion  :thumb: .

Enough said.......

Just trying to make sure - Did you read the post before the change to SA profile and standard font, when it was DSA and with a custom font, or after? Like you I really want both SA and custom font, but since it doesn't seem possible to make SA dyseub keycaps, which would you be more willing to sacrifice - the SA profile or the custom font?

Also, I don't think it was ever two color, I believe I always planned it with grey, blue and yellow keycaps. I think leaving out one of those three colors wouldn't make it as recognizable as Classic Space, but if you think otherwise, please let me know.

And if it is at all possible to make SA profile dyseub caps, TELL ME. PLEASE.
« Last Edit: Wed, 12 August 2015, 19:31:36 by CQ_Cumbers »

Offline neverused

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Re: [IC] CLASSIC SPACE - SA Keycaps (Major Changes)
« Reply #20 on: Wed, 12 August 2015, 19:30:06 »
If it is SA then it's 0% interest for me, though I would be thrilled to see DSA.

Offline CQ_Cumbers

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Re: [IC] CLASSIC SPACE - SA Keycaps (Major Changes)
« Reply #21 on: Wed, 12 August 2015, 19:38:36 »
If it is SA then it's 0% interest for me, though I would be thrilled to see DSA.

Well, it was DSA, but just changed to SA because of the feedback of every other person I asked with an opinion on the profile (Which isn't that many). I really need more commenters to decide - Would DSA and a custom font be more fitting for a Classic Space keycap set, or would more people prefer SA, glossy finish, and authentic legend colors, even at the cost of the custom font. SA and custom font would be the best of both worlds, in my opinion, but if it isn't possible, then it is difficult to decide where to compromise without some more people chiming in.

Offline Elrick

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Re: [IC] CLASSIC SPACE - SA Keycaps (Major Changes)
« Reply #22 on: Wed, 12 August 2015, 20:13:38 »
If it is SA then it's 0% interest for me, though I would be thrilled to see DSA.

I really need more commenters to decide - Would DSA and a custom font be more fitting for a Classic Space keycap set, or would more people prefer SA, glossy finish, and authentic legend colors, even at the cost of the custom font. SA and custom font would be the best of both worlds, in my opinion, but if it isn't possible, then it is difficult to decide where to compromise without some more people chiming in.

Don't listen to the flat earth people wanting DSA only,  SA is the NORM here and stick with it.  No one likes DSA besides some freaks thinking they all know better than 90% of us that actually buy and install SA's onto all our keyboards.

Always stay with SA profile because it's GOD's law and you don't want to be another heathen thrown into the pits of hell to suffer an eternity of pain and suffering because you mistakenly think that DSA is more appropriate  ;) .

Offline CQ_Cumbers

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Re: [IC] CLASSIC SPACE - SA Keycaps (Major Changes)
« Reply #23 on: Wed, 12 August 2015, 20:26:09 »
If it is SA then it's 0% interest for me, though I would be thrilled to see DSA.

I really need more commenters to decide - Would DSA and a custom font be more fitting for a Classic Space keycap set, or would more people prefer SA, glossy finish, and authentic legend colors, even at the cost of the custom font. SA and custom font would be the best of both worlds, in my opinion, but if it isn't possible, then it is difficult to decide where to compromise without some more people chiming in.

Don't listen to the flat earth people wanting DSA only,  SA is the NORM here and stick with it.  No one likes DSA besides some freaks thinking they all know better than 90% of us that actually buy and install SA's onto all our keyboards.

Always stay with SA profile because it's GOD's law and you don't want to be another heathen thrown into the pits of hell to suffer an eternity of pain and suffering because you mistakenly think that DSA is more appropriate  ;) .

I like SA too (though my opinions aren't as strong as yours), but I'm just concerned with whether it is worth the sacrifices; you seem to like the custom font a lot, and would you be willing to sacrifice that for SA rather than DSA caps? Do you think doing so would make it more or less "Classic Space" like?

Offline livingspeedbump

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Re: [IC] CLASSIC SPACE - DSA Keycaps
« Reply #24 on: Wed, 12 August 2015, 20:35:22 »
Just gonna leave this here:

https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=62327.0

Well Cospar won't ever get produced, and I think this idea can easily be developed into a very good original idea.  :thumb:
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Offline stoic-lemon

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Re: [IC] CLASSIC SPACE - SA Keycaps (Major Changes - Need Feedback)
« Reply #25 on: Wed, 12 August 2015, 20:35:53 »
I don't think hyperbole is useful in an interest check.

I won't presume to speak for the whole community, so I'll just say that I don't have strong feelings either way. DSA is very flexible and can be used on a lot of different boards and will allow that custom font. SA looks really cool. We need more opinions stating why one is better than the other. I'm on the fence right now.

Offline CQ_Cumbers

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Re: [IC] CLASSIC SPACE - SA Keycaps (Major Changes - Need Feedback)
« Reply #26 on: Wed, 12 August 2015, 20:40:38 »
I don't think hyperbole is useful in an interest check.

I won't presume to speak for the whole community, so I'll just say that I don't have strong feelings either way. DSA is very flexible and can be used on a lot of different boards and will allow that custom font. SA looks really cool. We need more opinions stating why one is better than the other. I'm on the fence right now.

So am I.
Oobly introducted me to uncountoured SA and glossy keycap finishes, which I think look more lego brick like, and, well, the custom font wasn't really used that much in the sets...

On the other hand, DSA and the custom font look more futurisitc, and seem to have a least a few fans. It also makes it more different from sets like Symbiosis and Cospar, even if that difference isn't really necessary, and might be a selling point in itself.

Offline neverused

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Re: [IC] CLASSIC SPACE - SA Keycaps (Major Changes - Need Feedback)
« Reply #27 on: Wed, 12 August 2015, 20:49:36 »


If it is SA then it's 0% interest for me, though I would be thrilled to see DSA.

I really need more commenters to decide - Would DSA and a custom font be more fitting for a Classic Space keycap set, or would more people prefer SA, glossy finish, and authentic legend colors, even at the cost of the custom font. SA and custom font would be the best of both worlds, in my opinion, but if it isn't possible, then it is difficult to decide where to compromise without some more people chiming in.

Don't listen to the flat earth people wanting DSA only,  SA is the NORM here and stick with it.  No one likes DSA besides some freaks thinking they all know better than 90% of us that actually buy and install SA's onto all our keyboards.

Always stay with SA profile because it's GOD's law and you don't want to be another heathen thrown into the pits of hell to suffer an eternity of pain and suffering because you mistakenly think that DSA is more appropriate  ;) .

It looks great and can feel amazing, just my personal preference and typing style make it less than optimal. I tend to put too much lateral force on the keys due to the increased height.

Though I can say that I have never believed the earth is flat, regardless of my keycap profile preference.

Offline CQ_Cumbers

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Re: [IC] CLASSIC SPACE - SA Keycaps (Major Changes - Need Feedback)
« Reply #28 on: Wed, 12 August 2015, 20:58:02 »


If it is SA then it's 0% interest for me, though I would be thrilled to see DSA.

I really need more commenters to decide - Would DSA and a custom font be more fitting for a Classic Space keycap set, or would more people prefer SA, glossy finish, and authentic legend colors, even at the cost of the custom font. SA and custom font would be the best of both worlds, in my opinion, but if it isn't possible, then it is difficult to decide where to compromise without some more people chiming in.

Don't listen to the flat earth people wanting DSA only,  SA is the NORM here and stick with it.  No one likes DSA besides some freaks thinking they all know better than 90% of us that actually buy and install SA's onto all our keyboards.

Always stay with SA profile because it's GOD's law and you don't want to be another heathen thrown into the pits of hell to suffer an eternity of pain and suffering because you mistakenly think that DSA is more appropriate  ;) .

It looks great and can feel amazing, just my personal preference and typing style make it less than optimal. I tend to put too much lateral force on the keys due to the increased height.

Though I can say that I have never believed the earth is flat, regardless of my keycap profile preference.

This is good to know - do any other people you prefer DSA keycaps because of this? Again, it's difficult to judge the overall needs and wants of the community from a few replies on this thread - more responses really are appreciated.

On another note, it if were possible (I don't think it is), how would people feel about dyesub SA keycaps?

Offline neverused

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Re: [IC] CLASSIC SPACE - SA Keycaps (Major Changes - Need Feedback)
« Reply #29 on: Wed, 12 August 2015, 21:00:28 »


If it is SA then it's 0% interest for me, though I would be thrilled to see DSA.

I really need more commenters to decide - Would DSA and a custom font be more fitting for a Classic Space keycap set, or would more people prefer SA, glossy finish, and authentic legend colors, even at the cost of the custom font. SA and custom font would be the best of both worlds, in my opinion, but if it isn't possible, then it is difficult to decide where to compromise without some more people chiming in.

Don't listen to the flat earth people wanting DSA only,  SA is the NORM here and stick with it.  No one likes DSA besides some freaks thinking they all know better than 90% of us that actually buy and install SA's onto all our keyboards.

Always stay with SA profile because it's GOD's law and you don't want to be another heathen thrown into the pits of hell to suffer an eternity of pain and suffering because you mistakenly think that DSA is more appropriate  ;) .

It looks great and can feel amazing, just my personal preference and typing style make it less than optimal. I tend to put too much lateral force on the keys due to the increased height.

Though I can say that I have never believed the earth is flat, regardless of my keycap profile preference.

This is good to know - do any other people you prefer DSA keycaps because of this? Again, it's difficult to judge the overall needs and wants of the community from a few replies on this thread - more responses really are appreciated.

On another note, it if were possible (I don't think it is), how would people feel about dyesub SA keycaps?
Does SP do pbt SA?

Offline unoab

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Re: [IC] CLASSIC SPACE - SA Keycaps (Major Changes - Need Feedback)
« Reply #30 on: Wed, 12 August 2015, 21:02:28 »
I really wish that SP would expand or at least publish what caps they can make in the SA profile in PBT.  I know you can get 1u and 1.5u keys in PBT as you can buy the blanks, but I have not seen any other sizes.  Also the molds are a bit thinner on the PBT SA caps than on the normal ABS molds, so they do feel thinner and cheaper.  Here is a photo for reference (from left to right; ABS, PBT, PC relegendable shell, PC shell with ABS insert):


As to what I think should be on this set.... I love the SA profile, but I like your font choice too as otherwise it would just be a slight color variant on the round4/SPH caps.  I wonder if you can talk Melissa into doing PBT alphas and then custom legends in that font for all the mods, maybe then the price would not be as crazy as custom everything, but we could have the custom font to complement the idea behind the set.  And Symbiosis did 26 custom legends and was only a small bit more expensive than 1976 that was running at the same time (I think it was around ~$15 more for the TKL set in the >75 orders bucket), and Modern selectric just ran with all custom mods, so I don't think going the custom legend route is that bad if you can get the orders behind it, so don't be afraid to go that direction, but just make sure to set the MOQ high enough so that early people buying in are not scared off by a high initial price.

and ignoring the APL legends on the alphas which are also darker than called for, this set would be close to symbiosis with some yellow keys to fill it out, so something like this:
« Last Edit: Wed, 12 August 2015, 21:05:45 by unoab »

Offline CQ_Cumbers

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Re: [IC] CLASSIC SPACE - SA Keycaps (Major Changes - Need Feedback)
« Reply #31 on: Wed, 12 August 2015, 21:14:24 »
I really wish that SP would expand or at least publish what caps they can make in the SA profile in PBT.  I know you can get 1u and 1.5u keys in PBT as you can buy the blanks, but I have not seen any other sizes.  Also the molds are a bit thinner on the PBT SA caps than on the normal ABS molds, so they do feel thinner and cheaper.  Here is a photo for reference (from left to right; ABS, PBT, PC relegendable shell, PC shell with ABS insert):
Show Image


As to what I think should be on this set.... I love the SA profile, but I like your font choice too as otherwise it would just be a slight color variant on the round4/SPH caps.  I wonder if you can talk Melissa into doing PBT alphas and then custom legends in that font for all the mods, maybe then the price would not be as crazy as custom everything, but we could have the custom font to complement the idea behind the set.  And Symbiosis did 26 custom legends and was only a small bit more expensive than 1976 that was running at the same time (I think it was around ~$15 more for the TKL set in the >75 orders bucket), and Modern selectric just ran with all custom mods, so I don't think going the custom legend route is that bad if you can get the orders behind it, so don't be afraid to go that direction, but just make sure to set the MOQ high enough so that early people buying in are not scared off by a high initial price.

and ignoring the APL legends on the alphas which are also darker than called for, this set would be close to symbiosis with some yellow keys to fill it out, so something like this:
Show Image


Thank so much for sharing this! I don't know if this set will be popular enough, like symbiosis or modern selectric, to offset the cost of all custom mods, but you have given me alot to think about. Do you think the thickness of custom ABS caps are worth the increased cost of molds, over SA PBT? Do they last considerably longer? Do they feel more like Lego? Right now, the hybrid proposal is looking really attractive, but I want to know the options.

What do you think of using transparent yellow polycarbonate for "highlight" keys, to match the signature trans yellow classic space pieces? And is the yellow keyed Symbiosis yours, or is it commonly available (I don't think I've seen something like that anywhere else, and it looks better than any render I've done)?

I hope I'm not bothering you too much, but you seem very knowledgable about these things.
« Last Edit: Wed, 12 August 2015, 21:17:30 by CQ_Cumbers »

Offline unoab

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Re: [IC] CLASSIC SPACE - SA Keycaps (Major Changes - Need Feedback)
« Reply #32 on: Wed, 12 August 2015, 21:39:58 »
Thank so much for sharing this! I don't know if this set will be popular enough, like symbiosis or modern selectric, to offset the cost of all custom mods, but you have given me alot to think about. Do you think the thickness of custom ABS caps are worth the increased cost of molds, over SA PBT? Do they last considerably longer? Do they feel more like Lego? Right now, the hybrid proposal is looking really attractive, but I want to know the options.

What do you think of using transparent yellow polycarbonate for "highlight" keys, to match the signature trans yellow classic space pieces? And is the yellow keyed Symbiosis yours, or is it commonly available (I don't think I've seen something like that anywhere else, and it looks better than any render I've done)?

I hope I'm not bothering you too much, but you seem very knowledgable about these things.

No problem, and I really like the idea of the polycarbonate keys as accent keys, that completely reminds me of the old lego sets.  I don't have any SP yellow polycarbonate keys but I can only hope it is as neon as the lego pieces that used to come in those space sets.  And the symbiosis set is mine, I just threw it on a board, and the yellow accents were from the Rad hard buy that happened a while back for accent keys to go with the nuclear data keyset.

As to the ABS vs PBT, as far as I know SP wont really run sets in PBT (there was one on PMK for a day titled "traffic", it disappeared very quickly), but you would really need to email Melissa and see if they would allow that, they may not even have the ability to dyesub them which would rule that out fairly quickly.  I threw it out there as I know they still have them in the key shop, and would love to see some PBT dyesubbed SA caps done, even if it was only available for the alphas, as that could open up a lot of new options, like cryllic, or a beamspring APL clone set if the trend caught on.  As to the materials, I think both will last equally long, ABS will shine quicker, but both will shine given enough time.  ABS does feel more lego-like, PBT is a more brittle plastic, so just fiddling with it holding a few caps they do feel different.  Also Legos are made of ABS so it makes sense it would feel similar depending on what observations you were using as a comparison.
« Last Edit: Wed, 12 August 2015, 23:57:46 by unoab »

Offline livingspeedbump

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Re: [IC] CLASSIC SPACE - SA Keycaps (Major Changes - Need Feedback)
« Reply #33 on: Wed, 12 August 2015, 21:48:23 »
Thank so much for sharing this! I don't know if this set will be popular enough, like symbiosis or modern selectric, to offset the cost of all custom mods, but you have given me alot to think about. Do you think the thickness of custom ABS caps are worth the increased cost of molds, over SA PBT? Do they last considerably longer? Do they feel more like Lego? Right now, the hybrid proposal is looking really attractive, but I want to know the options.

What do you think of using transparent yellow polycarbonate for "highlight" keys, to match the signature trans yellow classic space pieces? And is the yellow keyed Symbiosis yours, or is it commonly available (I don't think I've seen something like that anywhere else, and it looks better than any render I've done)?

I hope I'm not bothering you too much, but you seem very knowledgable about these things.

No problem, and I really like the idea of the polycarbonate keys as accent keys, that completely reminds me of the old lego sets.  I don't have any SP yellow polycarbonate keys but I can only hope it is as neon as the lego pieces that used to come in those space sets.  And the symbiosis set is mine, I just threw it on a board, and the yellow accents were from the Rad hard buy that happened a while back for accent keys to go with the nuclear data keyset.

As to the ABS vs PBT, as far as I know SP wont really run sets in PBT (there was on on PMK for a day titled "traffic", it disappeared very quickly), but you would really need to email Melissa and see if they would allow that, they may not even have the ability to dyesub them which would rule that out fairly quickly.  I threw it out there as I know they still have them in the key shop, and would love to see some PBT dyesubbed SA caps done, even if it was only available for the alphas, as that could open up a lot of new options, like cryllic, or a beamspring APL clone set if the trend caught on.  As to the materials, I think both will last equally long, ABS will shine quicker, but both will shine given enough time.  ABS does feel more lego-like, PBT is a more brittle plastic, so just fiddling with it holding a few caps they do feel different.  Also Legos are made of ABS so it makes sense it would feel similar depending on what observations you were using as a comparison.

I just emailed Melissa to check about these options, so I'll post here tomorrow when I get an answer :) And I really do think ABS is the way to go, I mean this is a set about LEGO, and seems like the making the keycaps out of the same plastic as LEGOs is the way to go  :thumb:
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Offline CQ_Cumbers

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Re: [IC] CLASSIC SPACE - SA Keycaps (Major Changes - Need Feedback)
« Reply #34 on: Wed, 12 August 2015, 22:08:39 »
Wow, this is really looking much better than I expected! I greatly appreciate all the knowledge and feedback offered by this community, and I hope we all get a fantastic keycap set out of it. It looks like we won't have to sacrifice a custom font after all - I don't want to make too many changes while Oobly is asleep, but it looks like ABS keycaps with the custom font are the way to go, at least for the modifiers. I just want to ask - Is anyone concerned about the price of molds? Symbiosis wasn't too expensive for most, it seems, but I just want to make sure (I mean, lego fans these days seem to have the same wallet depression problems geekhackers do).



The yellow transparent polycarbonate keys don't seem to look anywhere near as neon as the original parts - it's a shame, but I think most people would still like it? If we were to use it, it would be blank. Again, I would love to hear your opinions on this. Some people have requested keycaps in lesser-used colors - if this is a common enough request, red or green transparent polycarbonate "color kits" might be added as child deals.

Look for a new mockup tommorow.
« Last Edit: Wed, 12 August 2015, 22:17:25 by CQ_Cumbers »

Offline livingspeedbump

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Re: [IC] CLASSIC SPACE - SA Keycaps (Major Changes - Need Feedback)
« Reply #35 on: Wed, 12 August 2015, 23:22:12 »
I just stickied this on /r/keycapdesigners as well  :thumb:
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Offline Elrick

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Re: [IC] CLASSIC SPACE - SA Keycaps (Major Changes - Need Feedback)
« Reply #36 on: Thu, 13 August 2015, 00:25:00 »
Wow, this is really looking much better than I expected! I greatly appreciate all the knowledge and feedback offered by this community, and I hope we all get a fantastic keycap set out of it. It looks like we won't have to sacrifice a custom font after all - I don't want to make too many changes while Oobly is asleep, but it looks like ABS keycaps with the custom font are the way to go, at least for the modifiers. I just want to ask - Is anyone concerned about the price of molds? Symbiosis wasn't too expensive for most, it seems, but I just want to make sure (I mean, lego fans these days seem to have the same wallet depression problems geekhackers do).

Show Image


The yellow transparent polycarbonate keys don't seem to look anywhere near as neon as the original parts - it's a shame, but I think most people would still like it? If we were to use it, it would be blank. Again, I would love to hear your opinions on this. Some people have requested keycaps in lesser-used colors - if this is a common enough request, red or green transparent polycarbonate "color kits" might be added as child deals.

Look for a new mockup tommorow.

You started out with so much promise and enthusiasm and now you've digressed into umms and ahhhs, what the hell went wrong  >:( ?

Stick with your original designs because that is the first and ONLY decent choice.  When a designer starts to change their original colour-way into what they think others will like you will get no pick-up with this.  You have to remember that relying upon democratic choices gets you regimes like in the Western World that have collapsed upon themselves into depression and extreme irrelevance.

Always remain true to your original work and only 'slightly' adjust it but do not go listening to every Tom, D1ck and Harry about major design choices because it shall fail big time.
« Last Edit: Thu, 13 August 2015, 00:26:43 by Elrick »

Offline Bloo

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Re: [IC] CLASSIC SPACE - SA Keycaps (Major Changes - Need Feedback)
« Reply #37 on: Thu, 13 August 2015, 00:28:10 »
-like abs glossy change a lot

-http://www.peeron.com/cgi-bin/invcgis/colorguide.cgi

-prefer yellow of the lego heads to the polycarb, more iconic.

-wouldn't mind the spacesuit red added as an accent

-prefer white legends, but only because of the packaging graphics, don't remember the graphics on the physical sets at all.  Weak reasoning, but I'm stuck with it.  Also, white legends might not have enough contrast with the yellow, so your mix is probably a better idea.  http://www.keyboard-layout-editor.com/#/gists/7cab9f11e9f997c541b0

Could be a great set. :thumb:

Offline stoic-lemon

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Re: [IC] CLASSIC SPACE - SA Keycaps (Major Changes - Need Feedback)
« Reply #38 on: Thu, 13 August 2015, 00:44:06 »
Changes from the original are a big improvement. The original shows dark legends on the blue mods. White legends are much easier to see. Nothing wrong with changing for the better.

I think SA fits the set better having heard some concrete reasons.
If I went for this set I would probably want to put it on a 60% as I think it would look really nice.
Please consider a set with a nice selection of blanks.

Offline Oobly

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Re: [IC] CLASSIC SPACE - SA Keycaps (Major Changes - Need Feedback)
« Reply #39 on: Thu, 13 August 2015, 01:17:50 »
Wow, this is really looking much better than I expected! I greatly appreciate all the knowledge and feedback offered by this community, and I hope we all get a fantastic keycap set out of it. It looks like we won't have to sacrifice a custom font after all - I don't want to make too many changes while Oobly is asleep, but it looks like ABS keycaps with the custom font are the way to go, at least for the modifiers. I just want to ask - Is anyone concerned about the price of molds? Symbiosis wasn't too expensive for most, it seems, but I just want to make sure (I mean, lego fans these days seem to have the same wallet depression problems geekhackers do).

Show Image


The yellow transparent polycarbonate keys don't seem to look anywhere near as neon as the original parts - it's a shame, but I think most people would still like it? If we were to use it, it would be blank. Again, I would love to hear your opinions on this. Some people have requested keycaps in lesser-used colors - if this is a common enough request, red or green transparent polycarbonate "color kits" might be added as child deals.

Look for a new mockup tommorow.

You started out with so much promise and enthusiasm and now you've digressed into umms and ahhhs, what the hell went wrong  >:( ?

Stick with your original designs because that is the first and ONLY decent choice.  When a designer starts to change their original colour-way into what they think others will like you will get no pick-up with this.  You have to remember that relying upon democratic choices gets you regimes like in the Western World that have collapsed upon themselves into depression and extreme irrelevance.

Always remain true to your original work and only 'slightly' adjust it but do not go listening to every Tom, D1ck and Harry about major design choices because it shall fail big time.

<nervously raises hand> Um... I think I might have had something to do with that... I very enthusiastically proposed a modified version of the set. We're in PM's at the moment hammering out the pros and cons of various aspects of each profile, material, colour layout, etc, to try to get a set that totally rocks while staying true to the original concept. Stay tuned... This is going to be a great set!
Buying more keycaps,
it really hacks my wallet,
but I must have them.

Offline Elrick

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Re: [IC] CLASSIC SPACE - SA Keycaps (Major Changes - Need Feedback)
« Reply #40 on: Thu, 13 August 2015, 03:12:08 »
<nervously raises hand> Um... I think I might have had something to do with that... I very enthusiastically proposed a modified version of the set. We're in PM's at the moment hammering out the pros and cons of various aspects of each profile, material, colour layout, etc, to try to get a set that totally rocks while staying true to the original concept. Stay tuned... This is going to be a great set!

Oobly old stick, if you're involved here please ignore my usual rantings here.

You're an unusual type of person, mostly quiet and subdued yet you do really offer some beautifully designed key-sets when called upon, can not wait to see what you have up your sleeves here  8) .

Offline Keamdar Darkforge

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Re: [IC] CLASSIC SPACE - SA Keycaps (Major Changes - Need Feedback)
« Reply #41 on: Thu, 13 August 2015, 13:04:45 »
just chiming in. you already know a bunch of my opinions from /r/keycapdesigners.

red mods from the red space suit would be a good extra it would prolly only need shift and down since you still need some blue to get the right look.

regarding materials and fonts.

abs would be great since it would feel like legos. pbt feels rougher so lets call it 'studs up' so its still on theme ;D

the font is worth fighting for imo but cause of cap costs will mean printing, prolly dye sub, and so the legends need to be darker. which looks fine but like a few pointed out is a little tough to read. if having the lego space font means dark legends then dark will be good. the space sets sometimes had grey blocks with black symbols, grills and other marking on them. So it's on theme.

don't like that yellow translucent. too different thats some other toy not a space windshield.

also my vote is for DCS profile.

Also Benny rocks and should be the mascot for this set  :thumb:

Offline CQ_Cumbers

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Re: [IC] CLASSIC SPACE - SA Keycaps (Major Changes - Need Feedback)
« Reply #42 on: Thu, 13 August 2015, 13:35:13 »
Right now, the dream is ABS SA Row 3 profile caps with a glossy finish, using the custom font. However, whether this pans out, and where to make changes if that is the case, is still being worked out. The clear yellow polycarbonate keycap pictured isn't particularily similar to lego's shade of trans yellow, but we are in the process of talking with Signature Plastics to see if they have more accurate colors. As of now, I cannot say exactly how this set will look in the end, but stay tuned for updates and new renders.
« Last Edit: Thu, 13 August 2015, 13:38:40 by CQ_Cumbers »

Offline neverused

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Re: [IC] CLASSIC SPACE - SA Keycaps (Major Changes - Need Feedback)
« Reply #43 on: Thu, 13 August 2015, 13:54:15 »
What is the advantage of all row 3 SA compared to DSA? The additional height of the SA caps would create a longer lever arm and put greater torque on each keystroke not perfectly perpendicular to the switch itself. Is it perhaps the texture of the DSA or the supposed aesthetic value of the all row 3 SA?

Offline neverused

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Re: [IC] CLASSIC SPACE - SA Keycaps (Major Changes - Need Feedback)
« Reply #44 on: Thu, 13 August 2015, 13:55:24 »
Also, a Lego inspired set pretty much requires a Planck set or child deal. It would be perfect.

Offline CQ_Cumbers

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Re: [IC] CLASSIC SPACE - SA Keycaps (Major Changes - Need Feedback)
« Reply #45 on: Thu, 13 August 2015, 14:41:05 »
What is the advantage of all row 3 SA compared to DSA? The additional height of the SA caps would create a longer lever arm and put greater torque on each keystroke not perfectly perpendicular to the switch itself. Is it perhaps the texture of the DSA or the supposed aesthetic value of the all row 3 SA?

I and most people I have spoken to seem to agree that a row 3 SA profile looks and feels much more like Lego than DSA. I don't think taller keycaps creating additional torque is enough of a problem for enough people to justify a change of profile. (Other people who disagree with these statements, I would love to hear your reasons)

Also, a Lego inspired set pretty much requires a Planck set or child deal. It would be perfect.

We are figuring these things out, so feedback is appreciated. Child deals and other sets may depend on the costs from Signature Plastics and overall community interest in them. It looks like some red colored keys are a pretty often requested feature, for example.
« Last Edit: Thu, 13 August 2015, 14:43:30 by CQ_Cumbers »


Offline stoic-lemon

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Re: [IC] CLASSIC SPACE - SA Keycaps (Major Changes - Need Feedback)
« Reply #47 on: Thu, 13 August 2015, 20:53:25 »

Offline CQ_Cumbers

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Re: [IC] CLASSIC SPACE - SA Keycaps (Major Changes - Need Feedback)
« Reply #48 on: Thu, 13 August 2015, 21:05:31 »
Show Image


I don't know about that, but I agree with the sentiment. Given the current differences between the sets, and the even more different directions planned, I would hope that classic space fans will find this set more authentic to the theme than MiTo's, which draws inspiration from different sources but still might look attractive to fans of classic space who don't frequent these forums.

MiTo - If you check my post history on here and on reddit, you can see that this set was developed completely independently from Cospar, and that it takes inspiration from different sources and is going in a different direction. I only hope that fans know that your set was not inspired by Classic Space (Whose color scheme I once thought extremely distinctive and unique).

Offline stoic-lemon

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Re: [IC] CLASSIC SPACE - SA Keycaps (Major Changes - Need Feedback)
« Reply #49 on: Thu, 13 August 2015, 21:07:55 »
I really like both sets so I hope something can be worked out.