KUL ES-87 or Topre Realforce 87U

[jaffers]

Sooo. I'm in a bit of a pickle. I'm not too sure which one I want more. I can get the KUL in (almost, I only want a black case anyway) any colour with any switches (almost, the ones that I want i.e. greens or blacks) or I can get the Topre Realforce 87U with in beige (the only colour I'd want to get a Realforce in) with 55g uniform switchs.

They are both very very pretty, the KUL reminds me a bit of a KMAC keyboard (something I'm definitely going to out of my way to get when I finish my engineering degree) and I'm a sucker for a good looking beige body (something that isn't on a wide range of new keyboards unfortunately).

Now as far as feel goes, ahhhhh, I'm not so picky. I will be collecting keyboards from now and into the very distant future (so not going to miss out trying any) neither do I use a keyboard heavily yet, maily stick to writing equations by hand and studying at the moment.

But what about as a collectible? I've heard some worrying things about KUL (like that they haven't come back in stock for some stores for a while now or something along those lines). And Topre are pretty hard to find in Australia (as well as being a pretty high end product with not a super large amount of demand) so I'm not too sure if they are going to keep making the boards and whether I should pick one up now while I have the chance?

Also, post sexy pictures of either board if you've got them

[Jokrik]

The two has very different feel to them, can't really decide for you
I love MX for than topre, but I know some topre fans are hardcore. There are many substitute for TKL cherry MX boards but I reckon KUL is at the top 5

Choose whichever suits your budget, taste and needs

[demik]

55g RF. NO CONTEST.

[Jokrik]

55g RF. NO CONTEST.

The two has very different feel to them, can't really decide for you
I love MX for than topre, but I know some topre fans are hardcore. There are many substitute for TKL cherry MX boards but I reckon KUL is at the top 5

Choose whichever suits your budget, taste and needs

[raymogi]

Once you go Topre, you'll never go back.

[sth]

topre

[jdcarpe]

Once you go Topre, you'll never go back.

That's just not true. Maybe for some people, but it hasn't been the case for me. I love the HHKB for the layout, not the switches. And I can use it for a few weeks, then go back to an MX or Alps board without a thought.

[jamster]

But what about as a collectible? I've heard some worrying things about KUL (like that they haven't come back in stock for some stores for a while now or something along those lines). And Topre are pretty hard to find in Australia (as well as being a pretty high end product with not a super large amount of demand) so I'm not too sure if they are going to keep making the boards and whether I should pick one up now while I have the chance?

Not sure whether the concerns with either board are valid.

If KUL boards somehow disappear (this sounds like a complete rumour to me, I keep seeing them available locally), I'm not sure they'd become any more collectable as there are so many MX options in fairly similar cases. They're just MX boards, and MX is everywhere in every format.

How available Realforce/Topre are in Oz should have no impact on long term product availability. The Oz market must be inconsequential to the manufacturer.

So I doubt that collectability makes much sense as a selection factor. Just get whatever you think you're more likely to want to keep longer term.

[merlin64]

I own a KUL ES87 but have typed on a the 87U, honestly I like them both. Though for ease of getting keycaps, I would go for the KUL over the 87U. Though there are sliders you can buy to change the topre sliders to mx, if you want to go that route.

If you do go for the 87U, make sure you look into getting one of those pbt space bars that have been on sale recently.

[jerue]

Pick up the 55g Realforce now. Give it a week or so, if you don't like it, it's easy to sell and you can get the KUL with your favorite switches.

[Durvid]

Even though I'm selling mine, the RF 87U is the best board I've ever typed on. Go topre. Never go back.

[TopreFan333]

Having started off with a KUL and moved completely to Topre, I can't recommend the Realforce highly enough. It also comes with PBT keycaps that will last forever. The ones on the KUL are lasered and will be fading and shining on you before long.

[yomammary]

Tell me where you can find a 87U 55g.

[Hypersphere]

If you like Cherry mx switches and Cherry stabilizers, the Kul is a good board.

In my own case, Cherry mx switches are my least favorite of all, and Topre 55 and 45g are at the top, along with IBM capacitive buckling spring (Model F) switches. Among Topre-switch boards, I like the RF87UB and HHKB Pro 2.

If I had to chose between the Kul and the RF, the RF would win hands down.

[Defect]

If you can get the RF for under 180 shipped, I'd vote RF.

Otherwise I don't think you're getting the best bang for your buck with the RF and would vote KUL.

Topre vs MX is like comparing FWD vs RWD cars.  They both have their compromises but at the end of the day they do the same thing.

[saturnotaku]

KUL has allegedly stated that they are replenishing supplies. This was about 6 weeks ago, though nothing has shown up in any of the places that have stocked them, at least in N. America. As to any sort of collectability - put that thought out of your mind. The Realforce 10th Anniversary edition is about the only mass-produced keyboard of the last 5+ years that could even remotely be deemed collectible.

It's funny because I actually have a 55g Realforce and a Cherry MX green CoolerMaster Quickfire Rapid on their way to me. I've used 45g uniform and variable weight Realforce boards and liked them both, so I'm very curious to try 55g. On the Cherry side, I have unusual preferences in that I like both their lightest and heaviest switches (red, brown, green) but not the ones in between (blue, clear).

Overall, both the Realforce and KUL are solid choices. Not sure what the price difference is between them in your neck of the woods, but at least in the US, it's about $100. Even still, I'd probably give the edge to the Realforce.

[jaffers]

Well the general consensus is to go Topre, and considering its probably the last time I'm going to see one this cheap for a while (else I'd be paying an arm and leg importing it) I will give it a shot and get a KUL later on. Thanks for all the suggestions! 

Tell me where you can find a 87U 55g.

I am getting it from an Australian store, they don't ship oversea I don't think

[dustinhxc]

REALFORCE 

[rowdy]

You said you'll be collecting keyboards anyway, so it is simply a question of which one to get first.

I'd suggest the RealForce - it is probably sufficiently different to most other keyboards you have tried.

[keshley]

I'd say go RealForce too. Even if you weren't collecting, at that price if you didn't like it, you could resell it and lose no money at all on it. Or maybe even make a few bucks to get the next board on your list.

But there is no escaping good feeling of oneness with cup rubber!

[snarfarlarkus]

If in doubt, go with RF

[bocahgundul]

get both or just get the topre it feelsss amazing 

[vivalarevolución]

Buy both. Always buy both.

[mikes41720]

There is only one thing I can say, be one with the cup rubber! 

[strict]

Get the Realforce, even if its not a 55g model you honestly cant go wrong with any of them. Personally I think 45g > 55g > Variable but all three weights are awesome in slightly different ways. Universally one of the best typing experiences possible in my opinion.

[apolotary]

For those who are saying that KUL are getting rare, you should probably be aware of that Realforce 87u 55g is unavailable in most Japanese stores until November. So there's a shortage of these boards too.

[yomammary]

For those who are saying that KUL are getting rare, you should probably be aware of that Realforce 87u 55g is unavailable in most Japanese stores until November. So there's a shortage of these boards too.

What's your source? EK is saying end of September and another Japanese vendor told me end of September too.

[apolotary]

For those who are saying that KUL are getting rare, you should probably be aware of that Realforce 87u 55g is unavailable in most Japanese stores until November. So there's a shortage of these boards too.

What's your source? EK is saying end of September and another Japanese vendor told me end of September too.

I'm in the market for one myself and had to do some research. Most of the (reasonably priced) places I went to are saying that the estimated delivery is in 1-3 months:

Amazon says the black one is coming in 1-3 months, white one is unavailable at all
Sofmap says early november
Diatec has white version, but they are not sure when the black one is coming
1-2 months of waiting on Joshin web shop

I mean one could probably find it at a higher price, but I'm a little reluctant to pay more for something I don't need right here, right now.

[yomammary]

For those who are saying that KUL are getting rare, you should probably be aware of that Realforce 87u 55g is unavailable in most Japanese stores until November. So there's a shortage of these boards too.

What's your source? EK is saying end of September and another Japanese vendor told me end of September too.

I'm in the market for one myself and had to do some research. Most of the (reasonably priced) places I went to are saying that the estimated delivery is in 1-3 months:

Amazon says the black one is coming in 1-3 months, white one is unavailable at all
Sofmap says early november
Diatec has white version, but they are not sure when the black one is coming
1-2 months of waiting on Joshin web shop

I mean one could probably find it at a higher price, but I'm a little reluctant to pay more for something I don't need right here, right now.

Thank you, I'm also looking to buy one (through Joshin on Amazon).

[apolotary]

For those who are saying that KUL are getting rare, you should probably be aware of that Realforce 87u 55g is unavailable in most Japanese stores until November. So there's a shortage of these boards too.

What's your source? EK is saying end of September and another Japanese vendor told me end of September too.

I'm in the market for one myself and had to do some research. Most of the (reasonably priced) places I went to are saying that the estimated delivery is in 1-3 months:

Amazon says the black one is coming in 1-3 months, white one is unavailable at all
Sofmap says early november
Diatec has white version, but they are not sure when the black one is coming
1-2 months of waiting on Joshin web shop

I mean one could probably find it at a higher price, but I'm a little reluctant to pay more for something I don't need right here, right now.

Thank you, I'm also looking to buy one (through Joshin on Amazon).

kakaku.com is your friend (that doesn't speak English though )

[yomammary]

Yeah I don't speak Japanese, Evo_Spec is proxying one for me.

[jaffers]

Thanks for all the opinions, I've got a 87U sorted and getting it this Tuesday

[Wilkie]

I have been using a KUL ES-87 with MX Blacks for about nine months.  Enjoy everything about it except the keycaps.  The legends started to fade within a week on the most frequently used keys.  KUL said it was a defect and would send replacement caps when they became available, but that hasn't happened yet.  Did not expect to like MX Blacks until I played with a switch tester for a while and I'm now quite glad I did that before purchasing, because I really like typing on them.  Very solid feeling keyboard.

[apolotary]

Yeah I don't speak Japanese, Evo_Spec is proxying one for me.

Ahh I know that name, we're like the only three users from Japan on /r/mk

[saturnotaku]

Thanks for all the opinions, I've got a 87U sorted and getting it this Tuesday

What kind? Regardless, you should be pretty happy with it. I've re-discovered the magic of a Realforce keyboard with a 55g one. After being used to 45g, the heavier ones felt a bit weird at first, but the transition has been pretty easy since and I don't think I could go back, at least for typing. For gaming, I think I prefer 45g Topre or MX brown/red (and the clones thereof). The "snappiness" of the 55g Realforce causes me to trip over keys in faster action titles. But since I won't be gaming at work where the RF is currently stationed, no problem.

In any case, good luck with the new purchase!

[Hypersphere]

Thanks for all the opinions, I've got a 87U sorted and getting it this Tuesday

What kind? Regardless, you should be pretty happy with it. I've re-discovered the magic of a Realforce keyboard with a 55g one. After being used to 45g, the heavier ones felt a bit weird at first, but the transition has been pretty easy since and I don't think I could go back, at least for typing. For gaming, I think I prefer 45g Topre or MX brown/red (and the clones thereof). The "snappiness" of the 55g Realforce causes me to trip over keys in faster action titles. But since I won't be gaming at work where the RF is currently stationed, no problem.

In any case, good luck with the new purchase!

Good question. To me, the color also matters. I prefer the black models of RF87U (i.e., RF87UB55 and RF87UB-EK45). The "EK" edition all-45 has some nice touches, such as improved legends (although they are almost invisible anyway) and red LEDs instead of blue.

I go back and forth between my 45g and 55g RFs. After I installed Silencing Rings in them, I tend to prefer the 55g -- it feels and sounds somewhat smoother than the 45g.

However, having chosen black for the case, spacebar, and modifiers, I do like to have visible legends on the alphanumeric keys, so I put partial sets of blue Topre keycaps on the boards. I was fortunate to have purchased some sets of replacement keycaps before they became largely unavailable.

All of which makes me curious if the OP went for the white model, perhaps in order to have keycaps with visible legends.

[saturnotaku]

I prefer the look of the black Realforce but don't like how the legends on the keys are borderline invisible. That's part of the reason why I elected to go with the 10th anniversary edition. The blue/gray color scheme is not only fully legible but also sublime in appearance. If I were to get a regular black Realforce, I'd want to replace the caps with something I could read, even if only on the alphanumeric keys, which would put the overall cost not too far from the 10th anniversary in the first place.

[MajorKoos]

Realforce without a doubt. 
The smoothness of the switch action is very different to the MX sliders and far easier on my arthritic fingers.
Money well spent imo.

[jaffers]

What kind?

I am not tooo sure (variable I think?) but considering I am getting it in perfect condition for $220 Aud I am pretty happy. I will actually be paying more for a KUL at that price. IT A SURPRISE!!!

[saturnotaku]

I am not tooo sure (variable I think?) but considering I am getting it in perfect condition for $220 Aud I am pretty happy. I will actually be paying more for a KUL at that price. IT A SURPRISE!!!

Guess you'll find out when you get it. It'll be printed on the side of the box.

[mikes41720]

Thanks for all the opinions, I've got a 87U sorted and getting it this Tuesday

What kind? Regardless, you should be pretty happy with it. I've re-discovered the magic of a Realforce keyboard with a 55g one. After being used to 45g, the heavier ones felt a bit weird at first, but the transition has been pretty easy since and I don't think I could go back, at least for typing. For gaming, I think I prefer 45g Topre or MX brown/red (and the clones thereof). The "snappiness" of the 55g Realforce causes me to trip over keys in faster action titles. But since I won't be gaming at work where the RF is currently stationed, no problem.

In any case, good luck with the new purchase!

Good question. To me, the color also matters. I prefer the black models of RF87U (i.e., RF87UB55 and RF87UB-EK45). The "EK" edition all-45 has some nice touches, such as improved legends (although they are almost invisible anyway) and red LEDs instead of blue.

I go back and forth between my 45g and 55g RFs. After I installed Silencing Rings in them, I tend to prefer the 55g -- it feels and sounds somewhat smoother than the 45g.

However, having chosen black for the case, spacebar, and modifiers, I do like to have visible legends on the alphanumeric keys, so I put partial sets of blue Topre keycaps on the boards. I was fortunate to have purchased some sets of replacement keycaps before they became largely unavailable.

All of which makes me curious if the OP went for the white model, perhaps in order to have keycaps with visible legends.

Might I ask what is the effect of placing silencing rings on your RF87U? I just got my RF87U 55g a few weeks ago, and I'm loving it. But the silencing rings do seem interesting.

[Elrick]

For the OP please bare in mind where these keyboards are made.  One is made in Japan whilst the other is made in some sweat shop in Taiwan or in Mainland China.

You choose the level of opulence with what you want your fingers to fondle and caress  .