Thoughts on 60% vs 100% Keyboards

[SamirD]

I do a lot of numbers, and I can't go tlk or 60%.  Even laptop layouts have me fumbling around.

I even have an M in a carrying case in case I'm going to need it for numbers with the laptop.  If I need numbers, it has to have the num pad.

What do you do that requires "lots of numbers"

At lot of accounting and spreadsheets.  Stuff that is almost exclusively numbers.  I can fly on the numpad vs the main area except that I'm wondering how fast I would be if I 'home rowed' my fingers on the ten keys.  I might be much, much faster that way as almost each finger would be directly above a number.

With as much as type numbers at work, I wouldn't be near as efficient w/o a numpad.  With as much as I am in excel, I need the 6 pack and arrow keys.  Being able to touch type and 10-key helps.

So, I say use what works best for you.

Yep, same here.

At home I only need a 60% size for chatting and gaming.

At work I need almost every key on a 100% as I'm developing software with Visual Studio, which loves the function row and arrow keys. I also need the numpad for **** like my employer ID and issue/bug ticket IDs etc
However I think I will try and move to a TKL plus a separate numpad, so I can have my keyboard more comfortably in front of me, and have the numpad either on the left, or on the right side of my mouse.

I've thought about this too.  It would helpful to be able to push the numpad out of the way when it's not needed.  But I don't know of a buckling spring separate numpad.  I've been eyeing these cherry ones, but I don't think they'll be up to par:
https://www.cdw.com/shop/products/CHERRY-G84-4700-21KEY-KEYPAD-USB-BS/3843303.aspx?pfm=srh

[ideus]

I do statistical analysis using R and RStudio, every day, it does not require much time of manual input of numbers as some accounting activities do, but I am planning to review my current second layer configuration in order to allow a number pad to be accessed with the right hand. I am sure it would not be as efficient as an actual number pad, but it may help alleviating the use of the top number row.

[dante]

Has anyone ever made a 60% with a number pad?  (Basically a 80% with the navigation and function keys removed)

[ideus]

Has anyone ever made a 60% with a number pad?  (Basically a 80% with the navigation and function keys removed)

I think I have seen something like this before, I am not sure if it was just a mockup or an actual board, you should make some search, I think it was a sixty layout with three additional columns for the number pad.

[neverused]

Has anyone ever made a 60% with a number pad?  (Basically a 80% with the navigation and function keys removed)

The monarch comes to mind. There's a gb that is either closed or will be shortly.

[Polymer]

Most people don't need the numberpad...so many people who are used to using it think they need it but they really don't..this includes people that type some IP addressing...

The only people that need a numberpad are people doing heavy numbers work...spreadsheets, accounting, etc...although if I was in that situation I'd probably just get a dedicated number pad to pull out when I need it..

TKL is so much better, the extra space you get back is tremendous..
Going to 60% from TKL also gives you back space but the gain (which exactly the same amount of space) isn't a big...

[darkclone24]

Has anyone ever made a 60% with a number pad?  (Basically a 80% with the navigation and function keys removed)

Sentrant PC's TK78 is in prototype stage, there are a few posts about it on Reddit.

As for the topic, I use 100% at work because I need the Num Pad for entering a lot of number codes all day.

At home, it's gotta be 75%. F keys are very useful in many games I play, and dedicated Home, End, Pg Up and PG DN are desirable to me.

[SamirD]

Most people don't need the numberpad...so many people who are used to using it think they need it but they really don't..this includes people that type some IP addressing...

The only people that need a numberpad are people doing heavy numbers work...spreadsheets, accounting, etc...although if I was in that situation I'd probably just get a dedicated number pad to pull out when I need it..

TKL is so much better, the extra space you get back is tremendous..
Going to 60% from TKL also gives you back space but the gain (which exactly the same amount of space) isn't a big...

I even use the num pad for IP addresses and phone numbers.  It's just much, much faster.

For me, desk space isn't a problem.  I could have more space if I wanted--just move stuff around.

[davkol]

I'd argue the layouts "inbetween" are much better. One being 75% (~84key) and the other one 90% (full-size that fits in a rack). The thing is, a lot of software depends on using arrows, the nav cluster (6key), sometimes the numpad (10key) or even the odd three keys above the standard nav cluster. Both these layouts have essentially all keys: 84key keyboards usually only miss a dedicated Insert (which is a pity IME), perhaps right-hand-side Super, and a dedicated Pause/ScrollLock; the 90% layout has everything and don't forget the tenkey can be used for navigation too with numlock off.

I obviously prefer split keyboards like my ErgoDox, but that's a completely different form factor, esp. with all these thumb keys. Embedding a tenkey into the staggered layout is easy too.

However, when I don't care about customization and adequate comfort, the "inbetween" layouts do the job alright. For example, when I have to configure some system from scratch or do something in plain Visual Studio, the function keys and arrows come handy.

[Macsmasher]

For those needing a dedicated numpad...get a dedicated numpad. When you don't need it, just slide it under your monitor. Much better than having it nailed to the end of your keyboard all the time.

[thatsmrdoctortoyou]

For those needing a dedicated numpad...get a dedicated numpad. When you don't need it, just slide it under your monitor. Much better than having it nailed to the end of your keyboard all the time.

That's a nice setup you have there! What are your thoughts between the realforce Topre and the HHKB Topre?

[Macsmasher]

For those needing a dedicated numpad...get a dedicated numpad. When you don't need it, just slide it under your monitor. Much better than having it nailed to the end of your keyboard all the time.

That's a nice setup you have there! What are your thoughts between the realforce Topre and the HHKB Topre?

I like them both for different reasons. My 87U variable silent gets most of the use followed by the HHKB, then the 87U 55g. The RF 23U numpad is expensive but absolutely no regrets buying it. When not used, I just slide it forward and my mouse back over.

[retrochick]

I first started out with 100%, then I bought a TKL. Then I bought a Poker II. Decided the 60% wasn't the greatest layout for my work (coding). So I sold the poker II and used my TKL. However, I kept having that nagging feeling in the back of my mind that I didn't give the Poker II enough time to "break in." I really missed the great ergonomics of the poker II so I decided to buy another Poker II with clears. I'm not sure what was different that time around but I discovered that I really enjoyed the 60% form factor and adjusted a lot quicker to the function layer. I use the arrow keys a fair bit, so that part was painfully slow to adjust, but I stuck with it. I'm still more comfortable on a TKL at work, however at home I have a 60% sprit board and a hhkb. I'm already planning my next 60% build and love all the customizable options out there for a 60%!

If you stick it out you'll get used to the layout, however I would say that the learning curve for all 60% boards is moderate. You really have to make the commitment to stick with it, or at the very least give it a couple months of solid use before you decide. 

Your post helps me with what I've been wondering.  Going to a TKL didn't take any effort but the 60% wasn't so easy.  It has just felt cramped to me.   But I have been going back and forth -- purely by choice.  I guess I should stick it out.  Two months was what worked in your experience?

I really want to give it the best chance since I like the switches better on my 60%.

Once you got used to it, were there any issues if you had to go back to a larger format?

2-3 months of exclusive use finally started to pay off for me. The arrow keys are the hardest things to get used to. The stock poker II pbt keycaps are great in that they label the function layer as well, so if I wanted to say adjust the volume on my computer I would just look on my keyboard instead of trying ot refer to the poker II manual.

Ever since I got the HHKB it's yet another new layout to learn, and I've found that my 60% skills have taken a hit since I've been using the HHKB and learning that layout. So, just be mindful that it's best to stick with a specific 60% layout and commit to it.  Good luck!

Also, in terms of switches, which ones are you liking better? You could always solder them onto your TKL

[blai5000]

As someone who went through school and 1st job using only laptops, 75% layout is king.  I do miss the numpad on occasion though.

[ideus]

I first started out with 100%, then I bought a TKL. Then I bought a Poker II. Decided the 60% wasn't the greatest layout for my work (coding). So I sold the poker II and used my TKL. However, I kept having that nagging feeling in the back of my mind that I didn't give the Poker II enough time to "break in." I really missed the great ergonomics of the poker II so I decided to buy another Poker II with clears. I'm not sure what was different that time around but I discovered that I really enjoyed the 60% form factor and adjusted a lot quicker to the function layer. I use the arrow keys a fair bit, so that part was painfully slow to adjust, but I stuck with it. I'm still more comfortable on a TKL at work, however at home I have a 60% sprit board and a hhkb. I'm already planning my next 60% build and love all the customizable options out there for a 60%!

If you stick it out you'll get used to the layout, however I would say that the learning curve for all 60% boards is moderate. You really have to make the commitment to stick with it, or at the very least give it a couple months of solid use before you decide. 

Your post helps me with what I've been wondering.  Going to a TKL didn't take any effort but the 60% wasn't so easy.  It has just felt cramped to me.   But I have been going back and forth -- purely by choice.  I guess I should stick it out.  Two months was what worked in your experience?

I really want to give it the best chance since I like the switches better on my 60%.

Once you got used to it, were there any issues if you had to go back to a larger format?

2-3 months of exclusive use finally started to pay off for me. The arrow keys are the hardest things to get used to. The stock poker II pbt keycaps are great in that they label the function layer as well, so if I wanted to say adjust the volume on my computer I would just look on my keyboard instead of trying ot refer to the poker II manual.

Ever since I got the HHKB it's yet another new layout to learn, and I've found that my 60% skills have taken a hit since I've been using the HHKB and learning that layout. So, just be mindful that it's best to stick with a specific 60% layout and commit to it.  Good luck!

Also, in terms of switches, which ones are you liking better? You could always solder them onto your TKL

I do not think people should adapt to keyboard layouts; instead, the layout should adapt to the user, I have found the best path to be using a fully programmable keyboard with your preferred layout and software tools that help to access those keys that are not readily available in the first keyboard layer. In my case, my options were a GON Nerd60 that I adapted to my preferred layout and TouchCoursor and AHK that allows me to have the second layer and macros at the exact position I need them. I had found Poker, HHKB and similar keyboards to force you to use the FN key at fixed positions to be the hardest thing to learn, instead, the tools I mentioned allowed you to get the FN keys and second layers exactly where they are the most comfortable for your preferences. I just want to let you know that options exists, however they are not all at the same place, nor there is a single path for everyone. They come at a cost of money and time to put together the best keyboard, with exactly the best switches and caps that fit your needs and preferences better, but that is exactly what this hobby is all about.

[FuriousGeorge]

I do not think people should adapt to keyboard layouts; instead, the layout should adapt to the user, I have found the best path to be using a fully programmable keyboard with your preferred layout and software tools that help to access those keys that are not readily available in the first keyboard layer. In my case, my options were a GON Nerd60 that I adapted to my preferred layout and TouchCoursor and AHK that allows me to have the second layer and macros at the exact position I need them. I had found Poker, HHKB and similar keyboards to force you to use the FN key at fixed positions to be the hardest thing to learn, instead, the tools I mentioned allowed you to get the FN keys and second layers exactly where they are the most comfortable for your preferences. I just want to let you know that options exists, however they are not all at the same place, nor there is a single path for everyone. They come at a cost of money and time to put together the best keyboard, with exactly the best switches and caps that fit your needs and preferences better, but that is exactly what this hobby is all about.

Are you still using TouchCursor and AHK with your programmable board? I was using them with my non-programmable 60% boards and found out I loved using spacefn. Now that I have a programmable 60% though, I have it all in hardware and I'm not using the software any more. I'm not sure I'm ever going to be able to go back to non-programmable boards again.

[ideus]

I do not think people should adapt to keyboard layouts; instead, the layout should adapt to the user, I have found the best path to be using a fully programmable keyboard with your preferred layout and software tools that help to access those keys that are not readily available in the first keyboard layer. In my case, my options were a GON Nerd60 that I adapted to my preferred layout and TouchCoursor and AHK that allows me to have the second layer and macros at the exact position I need them. I had found Poker, HHKB and similar keyboards to force you to use the FN key at fixed positions to be the hardest thing to learn, instead, the tools I mentioned allowed you to get the FN keys and second layers exactly where they are the most comfortable for your preferences. I just want to let you know that options exists, however they are not all at the same place, nor there is a single path for everyone. They come at a cost of money and time to put together the best keyboard, with exactly the best switches and caps that fit your needs and preferences better, but that is exactly what this hobby is all about.

Are you still using TouchCursor and AHK with your programmable board? I was using them with my non-programmable 60% boards and found out I loved using spacefn. Now that I have a programmable 60% though, I have it all in hardware and I'm not using the software any more. I'm not sure I'm ever going to be able to go back to non-programmable boards again.

My board is fully programmable and I can do the same in hardware than what I can do with software; but, using the last allow me to get access to the same functions in my lap top keyboard. That is a huge advantage for me, because I have to use the laptop with no keyboard pretty much every day.

[swimmingbird]

I am in excel everyday and prefer my GON 60% any day of the week - mapping arrow keys to IJKL and having Fn on where left control would be (and control in HHKB position) is an absolute godsend when navigating spreadsheets. Even more awesome when you have the nav cluster near your arrow cluster as well - I can change worksheets without ever leaving the home row

[Hypersphere]

@ideus: Your strategy of having a programmable board is excellent. Fortunately for me, I find the HHKB Pro 2 layout to be perfect, so when I am using the HHKB, I don't need any programming or software remapping. However, when I rotate to other boards, I use Karabiner when on a Mac or ATNsoft Key Manager when on a Windows machine. My computers share a keyboard and mouse through a combination of an Iogear hardware KM switch and Synergy software KM switch. Now I mostly use a Windows machine as the primary and linux machines as secondaries. I use the keyboard remapping software to achieve a HHKB layout on other keyboards.

[ideus]

@ideus: Your strategy of having a programmable board is excellent. Fortunately for me, I find the HHKB Pro 2 layout to be perfect, so when I am using the HHKB, I don't need any programming or software remapping. However, when I rotate to other boards, I use Karabiner when on a Mac or ATNsoft Key Manager when on a Windows machine. My computers share a keyboard and mouse through a combination of an Iogear hardware KM switch and Synergy software KM switch. Now I mostly use a Windows machine as the primary and linux machines as secondaries. I use the keyboard remapping software to achieve a HHKB layout on other keyboards.

Congratulations on being a satisfied user of the HHKB. I have tried that layout using my GON, but I never got accustomed to the arrows in that position, neither the FN key to the right, I prefer to use my thumbs to activate the second layer of my board, so even with all the evangelism on the HHKB layout, it is not for me.

[yowaffle]

Before I got into MKs, I had a buddy who shared a photo of his 60% and thought I'd hate it [I only had a Ducky Shine 4 at the time]. A month later, I thought it'd be cool to have a MK for work and I was tempted by the v60 Matias Quiet Click on Massdrop. I purchased it because of the word quiet and thought it'd be work appropriate. I now have 3 60%s and 1 100%. I like how little space the 60% takes up, how portable it is, and I think a lot of the cap sets look better on 60%s too lol

[Hyde]

I might be the minority here.  I tried 60% and 75% and I really tried to like it but eventually I find the lack of number pad is just inconvenient.

I use number pad all the time and the 6 pack + arrow key for navigation, also the number pad enter (I hit it with the mouse thumb).

On top of it I use shift + arrow key a lot so having to press FN to access arrow key then on top of it to hold shift for certain function is just getting too tedious.

At work I use 3D software so I have to input coordinates and values for simulation all the time, at home I use number pad for online banking and so on.  After all that it's just much easier to have muscle memory for "standard" layout so I can type easily without looking (yes including number pad, and now I use all blank at home).

Not saying 60% is bad but it's definitely not for everyone depend on your usage.  As you need to press more and more keys for short cuts then having the FN key just make things more and more complicated.

Figure out what keys you use and find the best compromise. 

[agong8664]

You can trace your usage of every caps on 100%keyboard. Personally about 60 caps is enough for my 90% of use, the left 10% can be achieved by fn. I will not go back to 100% keyboards. If I need to type lots of number, I take out my G80-3700.

[ideus]

I might be the minority here.  I tried 60% and 75% and I really tried to like it but eventually I find the lack of number pad is just inconvenient.

I use number pad all the time and the 6 pack + arrow key for navigation, also the number pad enter (I hit it with the mouse thumb).

On top of it I use shift + arrow key a lot so having to press FN to access arrow key then on top of it to hold shift for certain function is just getting too tedious.

At work I use 3D software so I have to input coordinates and values for simulation all the time, at home I use number pad for online banking and so on.  After all that it's just much easier to have muscle memory for "standard" layout so I can type easily without looking (yes including number pad, and now I use all blank at home).

Not saying 60% is bad but it's definitely not for everyone depend on your usage.  As you need to press more and more keys for short cuts then having the FN key just make things more and more complicated.

Figure out what keys you use and find the best compromise. 

It seems that your computing needs and habits have made a full size keyboard a requirement, in other cases, like me, even when using a full size keyboard, 80% of the time I do not use neither the 6 pack, nor the number pad, therefore, only the arrows and function keys are required. That means that I can live with a 60% percent with the proper way to access the less used keys.


In particular, I have found that having the rows at the home row is one of the best setups for most of the activities at your computer, and that makes dedicated arrows unnecessary, I do not use them even when using my laptop keyboard, just because I really do not need them anymore, and using them at the bottom right side of the keyboard is always less efficient to accessing them at the home row while pressing the space bar.


You are one the PC users that take advantage of a full size keyboard; therefore, it is the best size for you.

[KRKS]

Thing with 60% or smaller boards is, they need to be either spot on or very close to your perfect layout, which is why they work so well for custom or re-programmable keyboards.

[arcvile]

60%, 100% of the  time 

I agree with this about 80% of the time

[Waateva]

I work in accounting and tax prep so at my office desk I use a full-size.  We are currently in the process of moving offices to a much bigger place, with bigger offices and desks, so I guess I could get away with a 60% with a numpad but I would rather just keep my V2 full-size as a no-frills workhorse board.  I will actually have a 2nd office location at the newest office for generic hardware and software testing as the un-official IT person of the office (I am under 50 and a male, so that automatically means I can fix things according to my office mates) so I am planning on getting a b.87 or a b.face.

That said, I current have a DS4 at home that could probably be cut down to TKL or even 60% so that will probably be done in the future, I'll just have to bribe my wife with more hand bags or spa trips so I can buy another board

[GL1TCH3D]

I definitely prefer programmable too.
Especially on the smaller sized boards where key placement becomes much more important.

I'd like to say that the use of programmable keyboards alone isn't entirely sufficient as a board with poor key sizing can still be ineffective for typing regardless of the programmed layers.

[SamirD]

I work in accounting and tax prep so at my office desk I use a full-size.  We are currently in the process of moving offices to a much bigger place, with bigger offices and desks, so I guess I could get away with a 60% with a numpad but I would rather just keep my V2 full-size as a no-frills workhorse board.  I will actually have a 2nd office location at the newest office for generic hardware and software testing as the un-official IT person of the office (I am under 50 and a male, so that automatically means I can fix things according to my office mates) so I am planning on getting a b.87 or a b.face.

That said, I current have a DS4 at home that could probably be cut down to TKL or even 60% so that will probably be done in the future, I'll just have to bribe my wife with more hand bags or spa trips so I can buy another board

I do a lot of accounting as well so I'm always wanting a 100% board.  But I have also considered the move to a tkl and a separate num pad.  Let me know how you find it to be.  If you're entering as many numbers as I am, you'll find out very quickly what's better.

[Infrared]

full sized keyboards are the death of me

I MUCH prefer a 60% for typing and a tkl for gaming.

[Waateva]

I work in accounting and tax prep so at my office desk I use a full-size.  We are currently in the process of moving offices to a much bigger place, with bigger offices and desks, so I guess I could get away with a 60% with a numpad but I would rather just keep my V2 full-size as a no-frills workhorse board.  I will actually have a 2nd office location at the newest office for generic hardware and software testing as the un-official IT person of the office (I am under 50 and a male, so that automatically means I can fix things according to my office mates) so I am planning on getting a b.87 or a b.face.

That said, I current have a DS4 at home that could probably be cut down to TKL or even 60% so that will probably be done in the future, I'll just have to bribe my wife with more hand bags or spa trips so I can buy another board

I do a lot of accounting as well so I'm always wanting a 100% board.  But I have also considered the move to a tkl and a separate num pad.  Let me know how you find it to be.  If you're entering as many numbers as I am, you'll find out very quickly what's better.

Will do!  I think having different switch types on a separate num pad might be kind of nice, but I really enjoy the Greens that I have currently so I would probably just get those again, unless I could snag a num pad with Gateron blues.

[SamirD]

I work in accounting and tax prep so at my office desk I use a full-size.  We are currently in the process of moving offices to a much bigger place, with bigger offices and desks, so I guess I could get away with a 60% with a numpad but I would rather just keep my V2 full-size as a no-frills workhorse board.  I will actually have a 2nd office location at the newest office for generic hardware and software testing as the un-official IT person of the office (I am under 50 and a male, so that automatically means I can fix things according to my office mates) so I am planning on getting a b.87 or a b.face.

That said, I current have a DS4 at home that could probably be cut down to TKL or even 60% so that will probably be done in the future, I'll just have to bribe my wife with more hand bags or spa trips so I can buy another board

I do a lot of accounting as well so I'm always wanting a 100% board.  But I have also considered the move to a tkl and a separate num pad.  Let me know how you find it to be.  If you're entering as many numbers as I am, you'll find out very quickly what's better.

Will do!  I think having different switch types on a separate num pad might be kind of nice, but I really enjoy the Greens that I have currently so I would probably just get those again, unless I could snag a num pad with Gateron blues.

I haven't tried greens, but I will now that you mentioned you use it.  I've been on buckling springs forever and finding a BS num pad seems impossible.

[zslane]

If this thread is any indication of the direction mech keyboards are heading, I feel like I should stock up on ANSI 104s (and 108s) before they become extinct.

I prefer 100% keyboards. I don't need the numpad most of the time, but I like the look of it, and a TKL just looks "wrong" to my eyes. I also am not afflicted with such tiny workspaces that I need the space that the numpad takes up for anything else. Not even the mouse. The position of the mouse next to my 100% boards puts it exactly where the arm rests on my chair(s) position my hands anyway, so a TKL would cause my mousing arm/hand to be off the arm rest. That's bad juju.

Going even smaller than a 100% or TKL removes too many useful keys for real work. And I don't need portability; I'm not a student who needs to carry his or her world on his or her back. However, I find a Pok3r to be a nice match with my iPad, which I really only use (in terms of typing) for forum posts and the occasional e-mail. In such a limited operation context, I don't have a need for function keys or even the nav cluster apart from basic cursor control. And for cursor movement, I'm okay with FN+IJKL. But I could never be happy with a 60% on a desktop machine where I need to do real work, which in my case usually involves writing lots of C++ or Python code.

Has anyone ever done a survey/study that correlates keyboard layouts with the kinds of typing tasks performed on them?

[Waateva]

I work in accounting and tax prep so at my office desk I use a full-size.  We are currently in the process of moving offices to a much bigger place, with bigger offices and desks, so I guess I could get away with a 60% with a numpad but I would rather just keep my V2 full-size as a no-frills workhorse board.  I will actually have a 2nd office location at the newest office for generic hardware and software testing as the un-official IT person of the office (I am under 50 and a male, so that automatically means I can fix things according to my office mates) so I am planning on getting a b.87 or a b.face.

That said, I current have a DS4 at home that could probably be cut down to TKL or even 60% so that will probably be done in the future, I'll just have to bribe my wife with more hand bags or spa trips so I can buy another board

I do a lot of accounting as well so I'm always wanting a 100% board.  But I have also considered the move to a tkl and a separate num pad.  Let me know how you find it to be.  If you're entering as many numbers as I am, you'll find out very quickly what's better.

Will do!  I think having different switch types on a separate num pad might be kind of nice, but I really enjoy the Greens that I have currently so I would probably just get those again, unless I could snag a num pad with Gateron blues.

I haven't tried greens, but I will now that you mentioned you use it.  I've been on buckling springs forever and finding a BS num pad seems impossible.

I would say that Greens feel similar to BS boards in regards to actuation, but the tactility of the keypress is more pronounced on a BS board.  Both feel quite nice, but I agree that the chances of finding a BS num pad are next to none, sadly

[Niomosy]

Honestly, I don't see 104s going away any time soon.  This place heavily caters to niche market items.  At Blizzcon, I saw nothing smaller than a TKL board promoted and loads of full size boards.  The general makers (Razer, Coolermaster, Corsair, Ducky) are not likely going to leave those markets any time soon.

Come to think of it, we need to get the GH-122 board back on track.  An ANSI layout 122 board would be fantastic!

[SamirD]

I work in accounting and tax prep so at my office desk I use a full-size.  We are currently in the process of moving offices to a much bigger place, with bigger offices and desks, so I guess I could get away with a 60% with a numpad but I would rather just keep my V2 full-size as a no-frills workhorse board.  I will actually have a 2nd office location at the newest office for generic hardware and software testing as the un-official IT person of the office (I am under 50 and a male, so that automatically means I can fix things according to my office mates) so I am planning on getting a b.87 or a b.face.

That said, I current have a DS4 at home that could probably be cut down to TKL or even 60% so that will probably be done in the future, I'll just have to bribe my wife with more hand bags or spa trips so I can buy another board

I do a lot of accounting as well so I'm always wanting a 100% board.  But I have also considered the move to a tkl and a separate num pad.  Let me know how you find it to be.  If you're entering as many numbers as I am, you'll find out very quickly what's better.

Will do!  I think having different switch types on a separate num pad might be kind of nice, but I really enjoy the Greens that I have currently so I would probably just get those again, unless I could snag a num pad with Gateron blues.

I haven't tried greens, but I will now that you mentioned you use it.  I've been on buckling springs forever and finding a BS num pad seems impossible.

I would say that Greens feel similar to BS boards in regards to actuation, but the tactility of the keypress is more pronounced on a BS board.  Both feel quite nice, but I agree that the chances of finding a BS num pad are next to none, sadly

Thank you for the feedback on the greens!  It is sad that a BS num pad doesn't exist.  I actually did a search for one and came up with an old thread on here about a group buy or whatnot on one.

[Texchappy]

It doesn't seem as if number pads will work with Macs (at least the small sample size I looked at).  Doesn't effect me at the moment but it's one option we Aplle folks don't have.

(If there is one that works let me know)

[ideus]

It doesn't seem as if number pads will work with Macs (at least the small sample size I looked at).  Doesn't effect me at the moment but it's one option we Aplle folks don't have.

(If there is one that works let me know)

Part of the "features" Apple "offers" to its customers is the ability to be almost limited to Apple accessories only; you can enjoy the "Apple's ecosystem" or change to other computing platform.

[dummytim]

I currently have a 60%, TKL, and a full sized board. I've been using the TKL for the past few days and it's been weird to have my full sized board fill up the space again. It was more than welcomed back though, I did miss the numpad for inputting numbers. Specifically credit card numbers, and doing some Math homework.

With the TKL I didn't feel like it was a major change besides the fact that I couldn't use the numpad's enter key which I use sometimes since it would be closer to my mouse hand. As for using a 60% it took like a few days to get adjusted to, I have played CS on the 60% and I enjoy it very much due to the esc key being closer. It was weird to adjust back to a TKL/ full sized board after gaming with the 60%.

All in all, I love all my keyboards no matter what shape or size they come in! I don't discriminate <3

[ideus]

I currently have a 60%, TKL, and a full sized board. I've been using the TKL for the past few days and it's been weird to have my full sized board fill up the space again. It was more than welcomed back though, I did miss the numpad for inputting numbers. Specifically credit card numbers, and doing some Math homework.

With the TKL I didn't feel like it was a major change besides the fact that I couldn't use the numpad's enter key which I use sometimes since it would be closer to my mouse hand. As for using a 60% it took like a few days to get adjusted to, I have played CS on the 60% and I enjoy it very much due to the esc key being closer. It was weird to adjust back to a TKL/ full sized board after gaming with the 60%.

All in all, I love all my keyboards no matter what shape or size they come in! I don't discriminate <3

One wise comment to listen to; in summary, use what adjust your needs better and forget about trying to convert the world to your preference. You can even use all formats available, as required for the task at hand.

[Texchappy]

I currently have a 60%, TKL, and a full sized board. I've been using the TKL for the past few days and it's been weird to have my full sized board fill up the space again. It was more than welcomed back though, I did miss the numpad for inputting numbers. Specifically credit card numbers, and doing some Math homework.

With the TKL I didn't feel like it was a major change besides the fact that I couldn't use the numpad's enter key which I use sometimes since it would be closer to my mouse hand. As for using a 60% it took like a few days to get adjusted to, I have played CS on the 60% and I enjoy it very much due to the esc key being closer. It was weird to adjust back to a TKL/ full sized board after gaming with the 60%.

All in all, I love all my keyboards no matter what shape or size they come in! I don't discriminate <3

One wise comment to listen to; in summary, use what adjust your needs better and forget about trying to convert the world to your preference. You can even use all formats available, as required for the task at hand.

Definitely seems sage to me.  If I was an accountant my goals for a work board would be different than they are as a retired bum who games occasionally.

[ideus]

I currently have a 60%, TKL, and a full sized board. I've been using the TKL for the past few days and it's been weird to have my full sized board fill up the space again. It was more than welcomed back though, I did miss the numpad for inputting numbers. Specifically credit card numbers, and doing some Math homework.

With the TKL I didn't feel like it was a major change besides the fact that I couldn't use the numpad's enter key which I use sometimes since it would be closer to my mouse hand. As for using a 60% it took like a few days to get adjusted to, I have played CS on the 60% and I enjoy it very much due to the esc key being closer. It was weird to adjust back to a TKL/ full sized board after gaming with the 60%.

All in all, I love all my keyboards no matter what shape or size they come in! I don't discriminate <3

One wise comment to listen to; in summary, use what adjust your needs better and forget about trying to convert the world to your preference. You can even use all formats available, as required for the task at hand.

Definitely seems safe to me.  If I was an accountant my goals for a work board would be different than they are as a retired bum who games occasionally.

It sounds a little bit cruel as you had put it, but yeah, basically it is the point made.

[swimmingbird]

I'm gonna be the annoying dissenter and say that as someone who is in excel everyday and building financial models... the "accountant" you mention - I think 60% boards are just as good for spreadsheet work as any board with dedicated arrow keys as long as you are familiar with the board/layout


Sure if I was a first time 60% users I wouldn't want to touch a spreadsheet without dedicated arrow keys

[dummytim]

I'm gonna be the annoying dissenter and say that as someone who is in excel everyday and building financial models... the "accountant" you mention - I think 60% boards are just as good for spreadsheet work as any board with dedicated arrow keys as long as you are familiar with the board/layout


Sure if I was a first time 60% users I wouldn't want to touch a spreadsheet without dedicated arrow keys

Would you just use the top row numbers to input large numbers then? I find it weird to input large amounts of numbers without a numpad, I would do it if I had to but I'd prefer not to if I had a numpad.

Also I hope your mail gets there soon!

[Oobly]

If this thread is any indication of the direction mech keyboards are heading, I feel like I should stock up on ANSI 104s (and 108s) before they become extinct.

I prefer 100% keyboards. I don't need the numpad most of the time, but I like the look of it, and a TKL just looks "wrong" to my eyes. I also am not afflicted with such tiny workspaces that I need the space that the numpad takes up for anything else. Not even the mouse. The position of the mouse next to my 100% boards puts it exactly where the arm rests on my chair(s) position my hands anyway, so a TKL would cause my mousing arm/hand to be off the arm rest. That's bad juju.

Going even smaller than a 100% or TKL removes too many useful keys for real work. And I don't need portability; I'm not a student who needs to carry his or her world on his or her back. However, I find a Pok3r to be a nice match with my iPad, which I really only use (in terms of typing) for forum posts and the occasional e-mail. In such a limited operation context, I don't have a need for function keys or even the nav cluster apart from basic cursor control. And for cursor movement, I'm okay with FN+IJKL. But I could never be happy with a 60% on a desktop machine where I need to do real work, which in my case usually involves writing lots of C++ or Python code.

Has anyone ever done a survey/study that correlates keyboard layouts with the kinds of typing tasks performed on them?

Biggest disadvantage of 100% is the position of the typing area. It's way over to the left which means you're putting uneven tension and stresses into your arms / shoulders and increases the likelihood of the right wrist being angled badly during typing, which can lead to all kinds of wrist health problems down the line.

I use 60% and smaller exclusively and I work as a software developer (c#, c++, java, html, etc).

[ideus]

I have the same issue of the position with full size keyboards, the main typing area is not exactly in front of me, the mouse is too far, those compromises are solved with a 60%, even the FC660 does not fit the bill.

[Hypersphere]

I have the same issue of the position with full size keyboards, the main typing area is not exactly in front of me, the mouse is too far, those compromises are solved with a 60%, even the FC660 does not fit the bill.

Yes, indeed. Although I keep TKL boards in my rotation, the asymmetry throws me off, and the top-row F-keys along with the navigation island are largely wasted space for me. I am most comfortable using a 60%.

[SamirD]

I'm gonna be the annoying dissenter and say that as someone who is in excel everyday and building financial models... the "accountant" you mention - I think 60% boards are just as good for spreadsheet work as any board with dedicated arrow keys as long as you are familiar with the board/layout


Sure if I was a first time 60% users I wouldn't want to touch a spreadsheet without dedicated arrow keys

I could see this if one can used to their board.  If you're most comfortable with it, you'll be the fastest with it. 

I have the same issue of the position with full size keyboards, the main typing area is not exactly in front of me, the mouse is too far, those compromises are solved with a 60%, even the FC660 does not fit the bill.

And for most, this is definitely the case, but when you are working with numbers and navigation a lot, your hands tend to be centered since they are using both areas of the board.

[Waateva]

I have the same issue of the position with full size keyboards, the main typing area is not exactly in front of me, the mouse is too far, those compromises are solved with a 60%, even the FC660 does not fit the bill.

Yes, indeed. Although I keep TKL boards in my rotation, the asymmetry throws me off, and the top-row F-keys along with the navigation island are largely wasted space for me. I am most comfortable using a 60%.

But the F-keys are obviously where you proudly display your artisans!

[ideus]

I have the same issue of the position with full size keyboards, the main typing area is not exactly in front of me, the mouse is too far, those compromises are solved with a 60%, even the FC660 does not fit the bill.

Yes, indeed. Although I keep TKL boards in my rotation, the asymmetry throws me off, and the top-row F-keys along with the navigation island are largely wasted space for me. I am most comfortable using a 60%.

But the F-keys are obviously where you proudly display your artisans!

What artisans?