Look at what I got on eBay!

[microsoft windows]

I got a Focus KeyPro FK-9000 of eBay today for $21.50. It'll be a nice introduction to white Alps keyswitches. I got it mainly because of the integrated calculator, though.

That thing's definitely going to get a little cleaning when I get my hands on it!

So what do you guys think of this?

[ch_123]

What are the White Alps like?

[microsoft windows]

Don't know yet. Just won it. I should get it in a couple of days.

[chimera15]

The one I got like that was a focus 3000 with the calculator.  I assume this is a re-branded one.  Although that one has the northgate type direction switches which my focus didn't have. Mine had real complicated white alps, and I stripped it and put the switches in a minitouch.  They're the nicest alps feel I think.  The click isn't as extreme as the fake simplified, so it has a much lighter touch to it.  The calculator actually runs on battery, and they had solar ones as well.

[itlnstln]

What are the White Alps like?

It would feel pretty much like the black ALPS in your Dell (minus the dampers, of course).  The only noticable difference that I can tell is that there is a little bit of a "snap" in the tactile bump where the tactile leaf snaps back against the casing creating the clicking sound (which would be the other main difference).  Feel wise, NIB vs. NIB, they feel almost identical; the clicking is the main difference between the two.

[microsoft windows]

Awesome!

Hmm...does it have AT/XT switchability? The 5001 definitely does and the switches are under the logo plate in the upper left which is removable on that board.

It is in fact AT/XT switchable.

[ch_123]

It would feel pretty much like the black ALPS in your Dell (minus the dampers, of course).  The only noticable difference that I can tell is that there is a little bit of a "snap" in the tactile bump where the tactile leaf snaps back against the casing creating the clicking sound (which would be the other main difference).  Feel wise, NIB vs. NIB, they feel almost identical; the clicking is the main difference between the two.

Interesting. Given the praise that some people give White/Blue alps I thought they may have been a step up. Although the lighter Fukkas are probably what I was thinking of.

[itlnstln]

The only other difference you might feel would be in cap quality, but pushing on the "naked" switches, they are not all that different.  If you think about it, the switches are identical except that the white's tactile leaf is detached at the top so it snaps back as you move through the tactile bump.

[ch_123]

Yeah, I was thinking that myself. But again, lots of people seem to like them, but dislike Dells. I think I'll just stick to Buckling Springs and Cherrys...

[microsoft windows]

Key caps can definitely be a factor in how a keyboard feels.

[ch_123]

Definitely, that's why I put as many AEK keycaps on the Dell as was possible. Even still though, the board still felt different even though it was using the same switches... Just like Unicomp vs. Model M all over again...

[itlnstln]

Yeah, I was thinking that myself. But again, lots of people seem to like them, but dislike Dells. I think I'll just stick to Buckling Springs and Cherrys...

Key caps can definitely be a factor in how a keyboard feels.

I think the keycaps are the main reason people don't like the Dells (I used mine for quite some time, myself).  My Northgate has much higher quality caps (thicker and double-shot).  They fit tigher than the Dell, rattled less, and changed the feel ever-so-slightly making feel of better quality, too.  The switches, by themselves, are practically identical.

[itlnstln]

Definitely, that's why I put as many AEK keycaps on the Dell as was possible. Even still though, the board still felt different even though it was using the same switches... Just like Unicomp vs. Model M all over again...

The cream ALPS have the dampers, IIRC, so those will definitely feel different.  The Dell had an overall cheaper construction, so there might be some other variables in play, too.

[ch_123]

No, this was on the board that I took out all the Black switches and put all the dampened Cream ones in. It wasn't too bad, but it was a bit too stiff for my tastes.

[itlnstln]

No, this was on the board that I took out all the Black switches and put all the dampened Cream ones in. It wasn't too bad, but it was a bit too stiff for my tastes.

This and the other discussion about metal keycaps made me think about the difference in keycaps between the Northgate and Dell.  I thought the Dell was a little stiffer than the Northgate, and I wonder if that had anything to do with the thicker (and heavier) keycaps on the Northgate possibly making the keypress a little easier on the downstroke.

[ch_123]

I don't know about the Northgate, but there is certainly a noticeable difference between the AEK and Dell keycaps in terms of feel.

[itlnstln]

I would imagine.  The Dell's caps are pretty thin and cheap.  About the only thing they have going for them is the laser etching.

[ch_123]

Just typed on the modded Dell for a bit. The Creams bottom out in a much harsher manner than they did when they were in the AEKII. I assume this is probably something to do with the materials used in the PCB, there seemed to have been a layer of plastic over the PCB in the AEK which the Dell does not have. Maybe that's what's responsible?

[Freezer]

I think that's the exact same keyboard my friend used in college.  I remember the built-in calculator.  At the time I thought it was silly, why would you want such a huge keyboard with a calculator.  Little did I realize that not all keyboards are created equal and those with mechanical switches are worth hunting down.  Enjoy your new [to you] keyboard.

[microsoft windows]

Yeah. I definitely wouldn't call that keyboard new-out-of-the-box. It surprises me how someone would type on a keyboard that dirty but I guess I'm just a little picky...

That thing is definitely going to be cleaned when I get it.

[ch_123]

Be careful removing those Alps keycaps, they are nowhere near as durable or easy to remove as Model M caps. I'd recommend two flathead screwdrivers - one for each side of the keycap.

[microsoft windows]

Thanks for the advice. I once broke a keycap on an original Dell Quietkey (the model with sliders instead of just cheap rubber domes) when pulling it out for cleaning. I definitely don't want to do that to an Alps keyboard since I don't have others to replace keys.

[InSanCen]

An IC removal tool is probably the cheapest and easiest way to remove keycaps.

I use one for all my ALPS boards. cost me, oohhh.... £3?

[ch_123]

Just to throw this in for future reference - Blue Alps appear to have much lighter resistance springs than the Blacks - about 50g or so. The lighter springs all but eliminate my main criticism of the Alps Bigfoot design - i.e. the pressure is concentrated all at the top, and causes you to bottom out all the time as a consequence. But with lighter springs, it's easier to avoid bottoming out, and the concentration of pressure gives the switch a satisfying clunk to it.

[microsoft windows]

What's the mechanical difference between blue and white ALPS?

[ch_123]

As far as I can tell, it's to do with the springs, one of them has more coils at the end than the other, so I assume that if I put white springs into the blue switch, it might be 10g or so stiffer.

[microsoft windows]

I've noticed that the white ALPS are kind of stiff compared to a Model M (where it requires plenty of force but is smoother) but are still pretty good to type on.

[keyb_gr]

In general the more coils along the length of the spring indicate less stiff.

For the kind of folks like yours truly who are not so fluent in springs, it may help to imagine what you get when unwinding the spring radially - a piece of spring steel wire poking in the air at some angle. A spring with more turns will obviously turn out longer (no pun intended), therefore it'll also be easier to press down one end while holding the other, as for any leaf spring or flexible ruler for a given material and cross-section.

[msiegel]

Increase N with all the others constant, and the spring gets lighter.

cool, that makes perfect sense :bounce:

[Rajagra]

Or you can make something a bit more sophisticated.

[ricercar]

R = F/S = (G . d ^ 4) / (8 . N . D ^ 3)

Where'd this come from?

[microsoft windows]

That looks like an interesting one. I'll keep an eye on Ebay for them.