Someone in Dell deserves to be shot for this one...

[ch_123]

I was setting up my neighbour's new Inspiron laptop earlier on. I went to close an application, so I hit Alt-F4. The application stays open, but the brightness went down. I tried again, and the same. Then I looked down at the keyboard, and was horrified to discover...



That's right folks, Dell has made the laptop specific stuff the primary function of each button. Now in order to access the F keys, you need to hold down Fn.

I hope that at least they will keep this kind of thing exclusive to their cheap models and not mess around with the keyboards of their high end offerings.

[AndrewZorn]

[AndrewZorn]

i dont understand the obsession with F keys, im sure there are programs out there that use them a ton and all... but even then, ive gotten quite used to left thumb + number (mass effect F1-F4 for weapons, F5 for quick save)... still just as fast as reaching

[ch_123]

The point with the HHKB is that you're getting rid of those buttons entirely. With the above laptop keyboard, the thing has the buttons, but it's adopting a stupid non-standard layout to appease people too stupid to RTFM, at the same time inconveniencing people who actually know how to use them.

[AndrewZorn]

i agree, but at the same time, which do you use more... F9, or volume up?

[ch_123]

F9. Quick load in many games.

Volume control should be handled by the dial on your speakers

[xyzzy]

Dell has been pretty creative with keyboard design lately...

[AndrewZorn]

youre all missing the target demographic anyway.  people were, are AMAZED, BAFFLED when i was caught rearranging the keys on my G15.  "YOU MEAN YOU KNOW WHERE EACH ONE GOES???"  as if i even need to, with trial and error...

[AndrewZorn]

damned twisted examples
and theoretical quick-loading madness

okay
which does SHE use more
F12 or next track

[ocdonkb]

In this day and age of people buying $1500 mac's, just so they can listen to mp3's, play with pictures and surf the web, it's really not suprising the OEM like dell would do this to the standard keyboard.

Because really, who does real work on their laptop these days?

[AndrewZorn]

man fu
fu --help

or at worst
Fn+[what is that thing?]
EDIT not some crazy linux thing, im talking about the original post

[ch_123]

In this day and age of people buying $1500 mac's, just so they can listen to mp3's, play with pictures and surf the web, it's really not suprising the OEM like dell would do this to the standard keyboard.

Because really, who does real work on their laptop these days?

I do!

[itlnstln]

Still, Dr. Bunsen Honeydew portraying a PC is quite an endorsement!

Classic!  New quote for the sig.

[1138]

There is a BIOS setting to disable the F-lock.

[xsphat]

IBecause really, who does real work on their laptop these days?

Most journalists, professional bloggers and writers. Many small businesses and traveling business(wo)men. Unless you need to edit video most "work" can be done on a laptop.

[iMav]

F keys are secondary functions on all Apple laptops as well.  Have to hold down the "Fn" button along with the actual Function button.  Otherwise, it is the same with the Dell.  volume up/down, brightness adjustment, etc.

[quadibloc]

F keys are secondary functions on all Apple laptops as well.

Now we know where DELL got the idea that it was a good idea from.

[hyperlinked]

Dell has been pretty creative with keyboard design lately...

Show Image

Come on, that's gotta be a hoax. Someone just switched some keys around on purpose.

[quadibloc]

Come on, that's gotta be a hoax. Someone just switched some keys around on purpose.

No, there was actually one keyboard made that had this problem... but that was a long time ago, and the company involved learned from its horrible and embarassing mistake. Also, this keyboard was made for the European market.

[xyzzy]

Someone just switched some keys around on purpose.

It's not just a matter of switching keys around. That's an ISO layout keyboard (UK I think), the left shift should be smaller to allow space for the |\ key.

Instead they had the brilliant idea to keep the left shift standard, reduce the right shift, and move all the bottom row one slot to the right.

After zillions of people complaining, Dell replaced those genius keyboards with standard ones. It happened in 2008 AFAIK, not so long ago.

[microsoft windows]

There keyboard would drive me nuts.

[Rajagra]

Show Image

"Hey, let's shift the letters on the bottom row over so nobody can touch type. That way they'll be so angry, they won't notice we put the power button right next to F4 ! "

[microsoft windows]

I don't buy Dell for a good reason.

[chuckading]

F keys are secondary functions on all Apple laptops as well.  Have to hold down the "Fn" button along with the actual Function button.  Otherwise, it is the same with the Dell.  volume up/down, brightness adjustment, etc.

Yes, but there is an option within OSX to switch this. Is there an option with XP? Vista? 7?

[AndrewZorn]

xp vista and 7 dont have a standardized keyboard to do such a thing with

[bigpook]

I have a dell laptop that did the same thing with the F keys. You can change it in the bios if you want to. At least on my 1545 you can.

[BenBenMan]

My friend has a new Dell Studio notebook which does the same thing ... it's got the BIOS setting to disable it as well.

Being Dell, it's probably a cost-cutting thing more than it is a feature...

[BenBenMan]

Do the affected models still have real media buttons or did they do away with those?

If media buttons are gone, it's a cost savings measure. If media buttons remain then it's a stupidity-increasing measure.

My friend's notebook doesn't have them ... it also doesn't seem to have a disk activity light...

[Rajagra]

With the advent of WinXP I think computers started getting...uh..."too easy", best way to put it.

Funny enough, I find it much harder to use a system that hides information from me to make things "easier." Like hiding filename extensions. And system folders. Or worse still, giving alias names to directories that sound simpler, but stop you from finding out exactly where that directory is stored on the disk.

I tried to fix a problem with automatic profile switching with my G9 mouse in Vista earlier. I wanted to check it was configured with the right filename to detect. That was made kind of hard by the fact that the properties of the shortcut to the game was blank except for the game name - no directory was given, nor a filename.

Please, Microsoft, stop trying to make things "easier" for me. It's confusing.

[hyperlinked]

Yes, everyone should know how to operate a computer.
Yes, everyone should have a chance to be exposed to technology.

But the computer shouldn't be "lowering to the curb" like a transit bus to let everyone with a disadvantage hop on with ease. People need to take some initiative and learn how to do things the same way I think the majority of us learned...through experience, trial and error, occasionally screwing up.

That would make for a pretty boring world. It's a certain kind of personality and skill set that accels at understanding electrical and software systems. I have plenty of friends who fit that definition, I guess I fit that definition, and my dad fits that definition. As much as I get all hot and bothered talking about 1's and 0's sometimes, I would go crazy if the whole world was like that.

Besides, what's wrong with easier to use? There's a world of difference between making something easier to use and dumbing something down to the point that everything has as much utility as pretty wooden stick. If you made a product that would allow me to get an entire week's worth of coding done just by pushing a button, I'll have my checkbook waiting. I'm sure I'd still have plenty of work to do because for every little bit of liberation comes a new complexity to deal with. There'll always be another rock to roll up another hill, but at least I can hope it's a better hill.

[InSanCen]

Dell has been pretty creative with keyboard design lately...

Show Image

It took me a while to see what was wrong with that board. The vast majority of my boards (UK) use that layout, the sole Exception being my US M13.

But, I do agree with not messing about with Internationally used Combinations. It's just bloody silly.

[ch_123]

Not that particular layout. Look at one of your UK layout boards and you'll see what's wrong. (Hint: Look at the position of the pipe key relative to the 'A' key above it)

[AndrewZorn]

this is like a geekhack "spot the difference!" game without the second photo

[ch_123]

Here's a reference pic -

[hyperlinked]

lol @ wooden stick. In my eyes, MacOS is a wooden stick.

I own a couple of wooden sticks. They serve me well all around. :laugh:

[hyperlinked]

Here's a reference pic -

Show Image

That's different. The left shift is miniaturised (I'm obeying UK spelling since it's a UK layout)... The bottom row keys aren't shifted one space over on that layout. In the Dell Vostro photo, all the keys are shifted so that...

z => x key
x => c key
c => v key... and so forth.

[InSanCen]

That's different. The left shift is miniaturised (I'm obeying UK spelling since it's a UK layout)... The bottom row keys aren't shifted one space over on that layout. In the Dell Vostro photo, all the keys are shifted so that...

z => x key
x => c key
c => v key... and so forth.

I saw that looking last night after you pointed out it wasn't quite the same as standard. I don't think it would take more than few hours/days to get used to... Most laptop boards throw me for that length of time.

The Function key stupidity still annoys me though. After seeing a Customer with one, I had to have a go. Would really get to me, as I ALT+F4 a lot.

[CX23882]

I would never be able to get used to that messed up Vostro keyboard. Touch-typing would be completely impossible. UK laptop keyboards should either have a shorter left shift with the \ key to the right, or a shorter space bar with \ to the left.

The only thing that was concerning about the Dell keyboard is not that somebody seriously misunderstood what they were meant to change for the UK keyboard (mistakes happen, and this could have been poor communication), but that nobody picked up on it until they were shipping to customers.