Which Model M to Avoid

[Snowdog993]

Are PS/2 ports really that uncommon?  I seem to see them on most if not all of PCs in the house, and in a pair, that is.

My laptops, however, don't have them, with the exception of my ThinkPad that has a pair, on the docking station.

Not really uncommon, just not as common as in the past. There are even motherboards now that don't have PS/2 ports on them.  I suppose they are phasing them out ever so much all the time.

I had to double and triple check the active adapter to be sure it works fine.  It is actually included with this particular Logitech PS/2 Mouse. Not bad!

[Snowdog993]

LMAO!  I dug out the 1394204 and have it hooked up to the adapter as well as the Logitech PS/2 mouse....  Everything works fine.  It's kinda strange having 2 keyboards and 2 mice at the desk!!

I can type or mouse with either hahaha!
Oh well, just a test to be sure I wasn't recommending something that wouldn't work!





It works, by the way.

[fohat.digs]

It's kinda strange having 2 keyboards and 2 mice at the desk!!

2 keyboards, yes, but I have used 2 mice for years. Too bad there don't seem to be any decent left-hand vertical mice (don't dredge up the horrible Evoluent!)

And, personally, the cheap-o PS/2 adapters have always worked fine for me, the odd shapes of the bulky adapters seem very problematic.

[Snowdog993]

It's kinda strange having 2 keyboards and 2 mice at the desk!!

2 keyboards, yes, but I have used 2 mice for years. Too bad there don't seem to be any decent left-hand vertical mice (don't dredge up the horrible Evoluent!)

And, personally, the cheap-o PS/2 adapters have always worked fine for me, the odd shapes of the bulky adapters seem very problematic.

This one was probably the smallest, least bulky active adapter I have seen.  And yes, it works fine for both peripherals.  The "straight line" cheap-o's never have worked properly for my SDL Model M keyboards.
I did have fun with a post of my old BTC rubberdome keyboard.  It actually DID work with the cheap-o's only if I had the active adapter in the line.  Otherwise, it wouldn't work at all.

[SamirD]

I'm no car enthusiast but I can certainly discriminate between and have preferences related to handling. That said, the analogy is a bit flawed because keyboard preferences are entirely subjective; there's no good or bad.

If you can discern then you are closer to a car enthusiast than you know.

I've never had an interest in cars, but I can certainly discriminate between how different cars handle and I do have a preference. This applies to a lot of things though, not just cars. I mean, I'm no fashionista, but I know the difference between various types of shoes and pants and definitely have preferences there, as well. Some shoes feel really good, some don't. I'm also no gourmand but I can differentiate between various subtleties related to food and, again, have preferences. I suppose there are people who aren't in touch with their feelings. I'm not one of them. I mean, you don't have to be an art enthusiast to look at two works of art and decide which one you like better. You can be a casual listener and have preferences related to music. Having preferences and being able to discriminate happens every day. Enthusiasts tend to know more about a particular subject because they engross themselves in it more than casual observers, but that doesn't mean people who aren't enthusiastic about something can't make distinctions or have preferences. It happens all the time.

I think it is the amount of interest that someone has in a particular topic to form their own detailed opinion on aspects that the general public would glaze over that shapes the mindset and character of an 'enthusiast'.  Thus, even the definition of an enthusiast is subjective--only the person themselves can define themselves as an enthusiast or not; albeit, a community of enthusiasts can easily spot if someone is on the same level of enthusiasm as the community at large.

An enthusiast is just a person who's enthusiastic or filled with enthusiasm. There's varying levels of enthusiasm, sure, and while it's subjective to a degree, I'd consider someone who holds very little interest in a subject to be a non-enthusiast.

That said, the OP indicated he wants to buy a Model M for his family members because they seemed jealous of his new keyboard which indicates (to me) that we're not talking about people who could care less or have no interest.

I agree with your points, and if you apply them to the OP's situation, the family members may not be able to discern between an F and an M.  I've used both and when compared to a rubber dome, both are so revolutionary in terms of feel, one may not really know there's a difference. 

An enthusiast would jump in to find out the differences or perceived differences (like the difference between Cherry Blues and the Razor green switches)--a non-enthusiast maybe wouldn't catch the subtle differences since their level of interest would not be as much.

In my opinion, it just depends on how perceptive you are. Further, while a devotee might be able to relay or express certain qualities more effectively than people with a casual interest, that hardly means a casual observer can't detect differences or form preferences. For example, I'm not crazy about liquor and rarely drink, but I can definitely perceive subtle (and not so subtle) differences between Cabo Wabo, Don Julio, Patron, and Jose Cuervo. And if I'm going to drink Tequila, I'd no doubt prefer Cabo Wabo. While my ability to adequately express why I like it more than the others is somewhat less robust than, say, an avid drinker, it doesn't change the fact I'm able to differentiate between the various brands and find that I prefer one over the others. But that's me.

I agree.  It seems that any level of enthusiasm for anything is preceded by an ability to perceive the details.  And I think this ability is not something everyone nurtures in their life.  I think you are exceptionally gifted in this area as I can't easily tell the difference between liquors, but can tell the difference between a 15mm and 16mm sway bar or different vintages of my buckling spring Ms.  I wish I could perceive the whole world in such vivid detail like you seem to be able to.  But it probably would just lead me to be an enthusiast on so many more topics, so I should be careful what I wish for.

[SamirD]

When you order your USB converters, don't get the "Blue Cube". Instead, get some of these:

...which are made to convert both a PS/2 keyboard and mouse to USB. Just don't use the mouse part. They work great, and are ridiculously cheap—like, only $1–2 shipped on eBay. The "Cubes" are around $10 plus postage, and their annoying shape will probably block one or both of your adjoining USB ports.

A not insignificant portion of the time they don't work great.  If you want to try to get by on the cheap with these first, go for it.

But know that you may have issues and just end up buying a higher quality adapter ala the bluecube.

I researched this a little while back as I've never had an issue with the two adapters I use (one a belkin and one a radio shack). 

What I found was that while powering an M was a bit of a problem in the past, it's generally a non-issue these days.  There's a trendnet one available on amazon for under $10 that has a lot of reviews of model M owners happy with it working right out of the box:
http://www.amazon.com/TRENDnet-USB-1-1-Converter-TU-PS2/product-reviews/B0007T27HI/ref=cm_cr_pr_viewopt_kywd?ie=UTF8&showViewpoints=1&sortBy=byRankDescending&pageNumber=1&filterByKeyword=ibm

[SamirD]

At the very least, this involves pulling all the key caps and the one-piece (larger) keys. And NOT with a knife, screwdriver, or other household object that could damage them, but with a proper key-puller tool (about $10).

• They're more compact (but then, compared to an IBM, almost anything is).

I found an old credit card to be great for popping off the one-piece keys.  The credit card will flex if there's too much force, so there's less chance of breaking anything. 

Also, if you don't want the smaller size unicomp, they do have a full size clone of the model M (the Classic) that has all the dimensional heft of the original. 

[1391406]

I'm no car enthusiast but I can certainly discriminate between and have preferences related to handling. That said, the analogy is a bit flawed because keyboard preferences are entirely subjective; there's no good or bad.

If you can discern then you are closer to a car enthusiast than you know.

I've never had an interest in cars, but I can certainly discriminate between how different cars handle and I do have a preference. This applies to a lot of things though, not just cars. I mean, I'm no fashionista, but I know the difference between various types of shoes and pants and definitely have preferences there, as well. Some shoes feel really good, some don't. I'm also no gourmand but I can differentiate between various subtleties related to food and, again, have preferences. I suppose there are people who aren't in touch with their feelings. I'm not one of them. I mean, you don't have to be an art enthusiast to look at two works of art and decide which one you like better. You can be a casual listener and have preferences related to music. Having preferences and being able to discriminate happens every day. Enthusiasts tend to know more about a particular subject because they engross themselves in it more than casual observers, but that doesn't mean people who aren't enthusiastic about something can't make distinctions or have preferences. It happens all the time.

I think it is the amount of interest that someone has in a particular topic to form their own detailed opinion on aspects that the general public would glaze over that shapes the mindset and character of an 'enthusiast'.  Thus, even the definition of an enthusiast is subjective--only the person themselves can define themselves as an enthusiast or not; albeit, a community of enthusiasts can easily spot if someone is on the same level of enthusiasm as the community at large.

An enthusiast is just a person who's enthusiastic or filled with enthusiasm. There's varying levels of enthusiasm, sure, and while it's subjective to a degree, I'd consider someone who holds very little interest in a subject to be a non-enthusiast.

That said, the OP indicated he wants to buy a Model M for his family members because they seemed jealous of his new keyboard which indicates (to me) that we're not talking about people who could care less or have no interest.

I agree with your points, and if you apply them to the OP's situation, the family members may not be able to discern between an F and an M.  I've used both and when compared to a rubber dome, both are so revolutionary in terms of feel, one may not really know there's a difference. 

An enthusiast would jump in to find out the differences or perceived differences (like the difference between Cherry Blues and the Razor green switches)--a non-enthusiast maybe wouldn't catch the subtle differences since their level of interest would not be as much.

In my opinion, it just depends on how perceptive you are. Further, while a devotee might be able to relay or express certain qualities more effectively than people with a casual interest, that hardly means a casual observer can't detect differences or form preferences. For example, I'm not crazy about liquor and rarely drink, but I can definitely perceive subtle (and not so subtle) differences between Cabo Wabo, Don Julio, Patron, and Jose Cuervo. And if I'm going to drink Tequila, I'd no doubt prefer Cabo Wabo. While my ability to adequately express why I like it more than the others is somewhat less robust than, say, an avid drinker, it doesn't change the fact I'm able to differentiate between the various brands and find that I prefer one over the others. But that's me.

I agree.  It seems that any level of enthusiasm for anything is preceded by an ability to perceive the details.  And I think this ability is not something everyone nurtures in their life.  I think you are exceptionally gifted in this area as I can't easily tell the difference between liquors, but can tell the difference between a 15mm and 16mm sway bar or different vintages of my buckling spring Ms.  I wish I could perceive the whole world in such vivid detail like you seem to be able to.  But it probably would just lead me to be an enthusiast on so many more topics, so I should be careful what I wish for.

In my opinion, I don't think perceptiveness tends to lead to enthusiasm anymore than it tends to lead to aversion.

[SamirD]

It's kinda strange having 2 keyboards and 2 mice at the desk!!

2 keyboards, yes, but I have used 2 mice for years. Too bad there don't seem to be any decent left-hand vertical mice (don't dredge up the horrible Evoluent!)

And, personally, the cheap-o PS/2 adapters have always worked fine for me, the odd shapes of the bulky adapters seem very problematic.

This one was probably the smallest, least bulky active adapter I have seen.  And yes, it works fine for both peripherals.  The "straight line" cheap-o's never have worked properly for my SDL Model M keyboards.
I did have fun with a post of my old BTC rubberdome keyboard.  It actually DID work with the cheap-o's only if I had the active adapter in the line.  Otherwise, it wouldn't work at all.

This is always fun, lol.  We actually used a dual kb/mouse setup in one of the companies I owned.  There was a local kb/mouse at the system and I could also control it via a usb kvm.

My mom actually prefers to have both a trackball and a mouse, both on the same side.

[SamirD]

I'm no car enthusiast but I can certainly discriminate between and have preferences related to handling. That said, the analogy is a bit flawed because keyboard preferences are entirely subjective; there's no good or bad.

If you can discern then you are closer to a car enthusiast than you know.

I've never had an interest in cars, but I can certainly discriminate between how different cars handle and I do have a preference. This applies to a lot of things though, not just cars. I mean, I'm no fashionista, but I know the difference between various types of shoes and pants and definitely have preferences there, as well. Some shoes feel really good, some don't. I'm also no gourmand but I can differentiate between various subtleties related to food and, again, have preferences. I suppose there are people who aren't in touch with their feelings. I'm not one of them. I mean, you don't have to be an art enthusiast to look at two works of art and decide which one you like better. You can be a casual listener and have preferences related to music. Having preferences and being able to discriminate happens every day. Enthusiasts tend to know more about a particular subject because they engross themselves in it more than casual observers, but that doesn't mean people who aren't enthusiastic about something can't make distinctions or have preferences. It happens all the time.

I think it is the amount of interest that someone has in a particular topic to form their own detailed opinion on aspects that the general public would glaze over that shapes the mindset and character of an 'enthusiast'.  Thus, even the definition of an enthusiast is subjective--only the person themselves can define themselves as an enthusiast or not; albeit, a community of enthusiasts can easily spot if someone is on the same level of enthusiasm as the community at large.

An enthusiast is just a person who's enthusiastic or filled with enthusiasm. There's varying levels of enthusiasm, sure, and while it's subjective to a degree, I'd consider someone who holds very little interest in a subject to be a non-enthusiast.

That said, the OP indicated he wants to buy a Model M for his family members because they seemed jealous of his new keyboard which indicates (to me) that we're not talking about people who could care less or have no interest.

I agree with your points, and if you apply them to the OP's situation, the family members may not be able to discern between an F and an M.  I've used both and when compared to a rubber dome, both are so revolutionary in terms of feel, one may not really know there's a difference. 

An enthusiast would jump in to find out the differences or perceived differences (like the difference between Cherry Blues and the Razor green switches)--a non-enthusiast maybe wouldn't catch the subtle differences since their level of interest would not be as much.

In my opinion, it just depends on how perceptive you are. Further, while a devotee might be able to relay or express certain qualities more effectively than people with a casual interest, that hardly means a casual observer can't detect differences or form preferences. For example, I'm not crazy about liquor and rarely drink, but I can definitely perceive subtle (and not so subtle) differences between Cabo Wabo, Don Julio, Patron, and Jose Cuervo. And if I'm going to drink Tequila, I'd no doubt prefer Cabo Wabo. While my ability to adequately express why I like it more than the others is somewhat less robust than, say, an avid drinker, it doesn't change the fact I'm able to differentiate between the various brands and find that I prefer one over the others. But that's me.

I agree.  It seems that any level of enthusiasm for anything is preceded by an ability to perceive the details.  And I think this ability is not something everyone nurtures in their life.  I think you are exceptionally gifted in this area as I can't easily tell the difference between liquors, but can tell the difference between a 15mm and 16mm sway bar or different vintages of my buckling spring Ms.  I wish I could perceive the whole world in such vivid detail like you seem to be able to.  But it probably would just lead me to be an enthusiast on so many more topics, so I should be careful what I wish for.

In my opinion, I don't think perceptiveness tends to lead to enthusiasm anymore than it tends to lead to aversion.

Seems to work the opposite for me.  It would be interesting to somehow 'test' the general public, although there's probably already some research out there on it as it would be quite useful for product marketing.

[1391406]

I'm no car enthusiast but I can certainly discriminate between and have preferences related to handling. That said, the analogy is a bit flawed because keyboard preferences are entirely subjective; there's no good or bad.

If you can discern then you are closer to a car enthusiast than you know.

I've never had an interest in cars, but I can certainly discriminate between how different cars handle and I do have a preference. This applies to a lot of things though, not just cars. I mean, I'm no fashionista, but I know the difference between various types of shoes and pants and definitely have preferences there, as well. Some shoes feel really good, some don't. I'm also no gourmand but I can differentiate between various subtleties related to food and, again, have preferences. I suppose there are people who aren't in touch with their feelings. I'm not one of them. I mean, you don't have to be an art enthusiast to look at two works of art and decide which one you like better. You can be a casual listener and have preferences related to music. Having preferences and being able to discriminate happens every day. Enthusiasts tend to know more about a particular subject because they engross themselves in it more than casual observers, but that doesn't mean people who aren't enthusiastic about something can't make distinctions or have preferences. It happens all the time.

I think it is the amount of interest that someone has in a particular topic to form their own detailed opinion on aspects that the general public would glaze over that shapes the mindset and character of an 'enthusiast'.  Thus, even the definition of an enthusiast is subjective--only the person themselves can define themselves as an enthusiast or not; albeit, a community of enthusiasts can easily spot if someone is on the same level of enthusiasm as the community at large.

An enthusiast is just a person who's enthusiastic or filled with enthusiasm. There's varying levels of enthusiasm, sure, and while it's subjective to a degree, I'd consider someone who holds very little interest in a subject to be a non-enthusiast.

That said, the OP indicated he wants to buy a Model M for his family members because they seemed jealous of his new keyboard which indicates (to me) that we're not talking about people who could care less or have no interest.

I agree with your points, and if you apply them to the OP's situation, the family members may not be able to discern between an F and an M.  I've used both and when compared to a rubber dome, both are so revolutionary in terms of feel, one may not really know there's a difference. 

An enthusiast would jump in to find out the differences or perceived differences (like the difference between Cherry Blues and the Razor green switches)--a non-enthusiast maybe wouldn't catch the subtle differences since their level of interest would not be as much.

In my opinion, it just depends on how perceptive you are. Further, while a devotee might be able to relay or express certain qualities more effectively than people with a casual interest, that hardly means a casual observer can't detect differences or form preferences. For example, I'm not crazy about liquor and rarely drink, but I can definitely perceive subtle (and not so subtle) differences between Cabo Wabo, Don Julio, Patron, and Jose Cuervo. And if I'm going to drink Tequila, I'd no doubt prefer Cabo Wabo. While my ability to adequately express why I like it more than the others is somewhat less robust than, say, an avid drinker, it doesn't change the fact I'm able to differentiate between the various brands and find that I prefer one over the others. But that's me.

I agree.  It seems that any level of enthusiasm for anything is preceded by an ability to perceive the details.  And I think this ability is not something everyone nurtures in their life.  I think you are exceptionally gifted in this area as I can't easily tell the difference between liquors, but can tell the difference between a 15mm and 16mm sway bar or different vintages of my buckling spring Ms.  I wish I could perceive the whole world in such vivid detail like you seem to be able to.  But it probably would just lead me to be an enthusiast on so many more topics, so I should be careful what I wish for.

In my opinion, I don't think perceptiveness tends to lead to enthusiasm anymore than it tends to lead to aversion.

Seems to work the opposite for me.  It would be interesting to somehow 'test' the general public, although there's probably already some research out there on it as it would be quite useful for product marketing.

I'm no expert, but in my opinion I tend to think it has a lot to do with the type of person you are in general. Everyone is different and have different standards, thus the scales appear to be weighted differently from person to person. Some people are natural enthusiasts, in my opinion.

[SamirD]

I'm no car enthusiast but I can certainly discriminate between and have preferences related to handling. That said, the analogy is a bit flawed because keyboard preferences are entirely subjective; there's no good or bad.

If you can discern then you are closer to a car enthusiast than you know.

I've never had an interest in cars, but I can certainly discriminate between how different cars handle and I do have a preference. This applies to a lot of things though, not just cars. I mean, I'm no fashionista, but I know the difference between various types of shoes and pants and definitely have preferences there, as well. Some shoes feel really good, some don't. I'm also no gourmand but I can differentiate between various subtleties related to food and, again, have preferences. I suppose there are people who aren't in touch with their feelings. I'm not one of them. I mean, you don't have to be an art enthusiast to look at two works of art and decide which one you like better. You can be a casual listener and have preferences related to music. Having preferences and being able to discriminate happens every day. Enthusiasts tend to know more about a particular subject because they engross themselves in it more than casual observers, but that doesn't mean people who aren't enthusiastic about something can't make distinctions or have preferences. It happens all the time.

I think it is the amount of interest that someone has in a particular topic to form their own detailed opinion on aspects that the general public would glaze over that shapes the mindset and character of an 'enthusiast'.  Thus, even the definition of an enthusiast is subjective--only the person themselves can define themselves as an enthusiast or not; albeit, a community of enthusiasts can easily spot if someone is on the same level of enthusiasm as the community at large.

An enthusiast is just a person who's enthusiastic or filled with enthusiasm. There's varying levels of enthusiasm, sure, and while it's subjective to a degree, I'd consider someone who holds very little interest in a subject to be a non-enthusiast.

That said, the OP indicated he wants to buy a Model M for his family members because they seemed jealous of his new keyboard which indicates (to me) that we're not talking about people who could care less or have no interest.

I agree with your points, and if you apply them to the OP's situation, the family members may not be able to discern between an F and an M.  I've used both and when compared to a rubber dome, both are so revolutionary in terms of feel, one may not really know there's a difference. 

An enthusiast would jump in to find out the differences or perceived differences (like the difference between Cherry Blues and the Razor green switches)--a non-enthusiast maybe wouldn't catch the subtle differences since their level of interest would not be as much.

In my opinion, it just depends on how perceptive you are. Further, while a devotee might be able to relay or express certain qualities more effectively than people with a casual interest, that hardly means a casual observer can't detect differences or form preferences. For example, I'm not crazy about liquor and rarely drink, but I can definitely perceive subtle (and not so subtle) differences between Cabo Wabo, Don Julio, Patron, and Jose Cuervo. And if I'm going to drink Tequila, I'd no doubt prefer Cabo Wabo. While my ability to adequately express why I like it more than the others is somewhat less robust than, say, an avid drinker, it doesn't change the fact I'm able to differentiate between the various brands and find that I prefer one over the others. But that's me.

I agree.  It seems that any level of enthusiasm for anything is preceded by an ability to perceive the details.  And I think this ability is not something everyone nurtures in their life.  I think you are exceptionally gifted in this area as I can't easily tell the difference between liquors, but can tell the difference between a 15mm and 16mm sway bar or different vintages of my buckling spring Ms.  I wish I could perceive the whole world in such vivid detail like you seem to be able to.  But it probably would just lead me to be an enthusiast on so many more topics, so I should be careful what I wish for.

In my opinion, I don't think perceptiveness tends to lead to enthusiasm anymore than it tends to lead to aversion.

Seems to work the opposite for me.  It would be interesting to somehow 'test' the general public, although there's probably already some research out there on it as it would be quite useful for product marketing.

I'm no expert, but in my opinion I tend to think it has a lot to do with the type of person you are in general. Everyone is different and have different standards, thus the scales appear to be weighted differently from person to person. Some people are natural enthusiasts, in my opinion.

I agree.  Trying to find a pattern would probably be tough and inconclusive since it depends so much on the individual. 

It's interesting that you mention some people are natural enthusiasts.  What qualities have you observed in these natural enthusiasts that would 'give them away'?  I think I subconsciously look for these qualities when meeting people but have no idea what they are.

[1391406]

I'm no expert, but in my opinion I tend to think it has a lot to do with the type of person you are in general. Everyone is different and have different standards, thus the scales appear to be weighted differently from person to person. Some people are natural enthusiasts, in my opinion.

I agree.  Trying to find a pattern would probably be tough and inconclusive since it depends so much on the individual. 

It's interesting that you mention some people are natural enthusiasts.  What qualities have you observed in these natural enthusiasts that would 'give them away'?  I think I subconsciously look for these qualities when meeting people but have no idea what they are.

Well, for example, I consider my mother a naturally enthusiastic person. In her case, she tends to be fairly positive, outgoing, and a bit of a neophile. Do those qualities apply to all natural enthusiasts? I don't know, but it tends to apply to the people I've met that I consider naturally enthusiastic.

[rowdy]

Are PS/2 ports really that uncommon?  I seem to see them on most if not all of PCs in the house, and in a pair, that is.

My laptops, however, don't have them, with the exception of my ThinkPad that has a pair, on the docking station.

Macs don't have PS/2 ports, and AFAIK they never did have them.

Some recent Macs don't even have USB ports.

[E TwentyNine]

 
What I found was that while powering an M was a bit of a problem in the past, it's generally a non-issue these days.  There's a trendnet one available on amazon for under $10 that has a lot of reviews of model M owners happy with it working right out of the box:
http://www.amazon.com/TRENDnet-USB-1-1-Converter-TU-PS2/product-reviews/B0007T27HI/ref=cm_cr_pr_viewopt_kywd?ie=UTF8&showViewpoints=1&sortBy=byRankDescending&pageNumber=1&filterByKeyword=ibm

Be careful on extrapolating your experience to the general case.   People still have problems with the cheapo Y adapters.

I have a two laptops in front of me that won't play well with a cheapo adapter.  And if you're going to spend $10 shipped for that trendnet (which may be active, swore that some of those Y's are) you might as well spring for a bluecube or that short active adapter contained within a cable that orihalcon and others sell.

[SamirD]

I'm no expert, but in my opinion I tend to think it has a lot to do with the type of person you are in general. Everyone is different and have different standards, thus the scales appear to be weighted differently from person to person. Some people are natural enthusiasts, in my opinion.

I agree.  Trying to find a pattern would probably be tough and inconclusive since it depends so much on the individual. 

It's interesting that you mention some people are natural enthusiasts.  What qualities have you observed in these natural enthusiasts that would 'give them away'?  I think I subconsciously look for these qualities when meeting people but have no idea what they are.

Well, for example, I consider my mother a naturally enthusiastic person. In her case, she tends to be fairly positive, outgoing, and a bit of a neophile. Do those qualities apply to all natural enthusiasts? I don't know, but it tends to apply to the people I've met that I consider naturally enthusiastic.

Interesting.  I've observed some of the same characteristics, but also have found introvertedness, shyness, and eccentricity to be some tell-tale characteristics of enthusiasts.

[SamirD]

 
What I found was that while powering an M was a bit of a problem in the past, it's generally a non-issue these days.  There's a trendnet one available on amazon for under $10 that has a lot of reviews of model M owners happy with it working right out of the box:
http://www.amazon.com/TRENDnet-USB-1-1-Converter-TU-PS2/product-reviews/B0007T27HI/ref=cm_cr_pr_viewopt_kywd?ie=UTF8&showViewpoints=1&sortBy=byRankDescending&pageNumber=1&filterByKeyword=ibm

Be careful on extrapolating your experience to the general case.   People still have problems with the cheapo Y adapters.

I have a two laptops in front of me that won't play well with a cheapo adapter.  And if you're going to spend $10 shipped for that trendnet (which may be active, swore that some of those Y's are) you might as well spring for a bluecube or that short active adapter contained within a cable that orihalcon and others sell.

Not my experience that I'm extrapolating from, but from what I read on various sites when researching the issue since I never ran into it.  I have the 'correct' belkin adapters and I never found any dialogue about the radio shack one, but almost all the conversations I read about adapter issues were from about 5 years ago or more.  The more current conversations didn't seem to have issues with even generic adapters although I would probably lean towards a known company vs generic (my personal preference only).  In all likelihood, the design that everyone is copying now already takes into account the additional ampage requirements hence why the issue seems to no longer be an issue.

Now that being said, I haven't tried my belkin or radio shack adapters with my oldest M or an F, but they even work on the M15 just fine.  A blue cube may still be needed to directly convert an F--this wasn't my area of research.

[1391406]

I'm no expert, but in my opinion I tend to think it has a lot to do with the type of person you are in general. Everyone is different and have different standards, thus the scales appear to be weighted differently from person to person. Some people are natural enthusiasts, in my opinion.

I agree.  Trying to find a pattern would probably be tough and inconclusive since it depends so much on the individual. 

It's interesting that you mention some people are natural enthusiasts.  What qualities have you observed in these natural enthusiasts that would 'give them away'?  I think I subconsciously look for these qualities when meeting people but have no idea what they are.

Well, for example, I consider my mother a naturally enthusiastic person. In her case, she tends to be fairly positive, outgoing, and a bit of a neophile. Do those qualities apply to all natural enthusiasts? I don't know, but it tends to apply to the people I've met that I consider naturally enthusiastic.

Interesting.  I've observed some of the same characteristics, but also have found introvertedness, shyness, and eccentricity to be some tell-tale characteristics of enthusiasts.

Personally, I haven't met very many shy, naturally enthusiastic people.

[SamirD]

I'm no expert, but in my opinion I tend to think it has a lot to do with the type of person you are in general. Everyone is different and have different standards, thus the scales appear to be weighted differently from person to person. Some people are natural enthusiasts, in my opinion.

I agree.  Trying to find a pattern would probably be tough and inconclusive since it depends so much on the individual. 

It's interesting that you mention some people are natural enthusiasts.  What qualities have you observed in these natural enthusiasts that would 'give them away'?  I think I subconsciously look for these qualities when meeting people but have no idea what they are.

Well, for example, I consider my mother a naturally enthusiastic person. In her case, she tends to be fairly positive, outgoing, and a bit of a neophile. Do those qualities apply to all natural enthusiasts? I don't know, but it tends to apply to the people I've met that I consider naturally enthusiastic.

Interesting.  I've observed some of the same characteristics, but also have found introvertedness, shyness, and eccentricity to be some tell-tale characteristics of enthusiasts.

Personally, I haven't met very many shy, naturally enthusiastic people.

It's pretty common in the car enthusiast genre--specifically illegal street racing.

[E TwentyNine]

You don't need to quote every post in the thread when you're replying...

[1391406]

It's pretty common in the car enthusiast genre--specifically illegal street racing.

I don't doubt this is true in your experience. I'd generally consider mechanics to be car enthusiasts, and although I've met a fair share throughout my life, there aren't many that struck me as 'natural' enthusiasts, even though they tended to love cars. In fact, a few struck me as somewhat cynical. But that's just my experience.

[1391406]

You don't need to quote every post in the thread when you're replying...

Yeah, and you don't have to read every quote that's posted in a reply, either.   

[Snowdog993]

This thread is officially derailed.

[1391406]

I agree. I'll reference my earlier point, that if the OP's family members tried his Model F, they may be disappointed with a Model M.

[SamirD]

You don't need to quote every post in the thread when you're replying...

Sorry about that.  Sometimes it's hard to cut out the other quotes properly, so I just leave them rather than having an editing mess. 

Personally, I really hate the way the style here displays embedded quotes.  Most other forum styles/softwares do a much better job keeping even multiple nested quotes easy to separate and reply to.

I don't doubt this is true in your experience. I'd generally consider mechanics to be car enthusiasts, and although I've met a fair share throughout my life, there aren't many that struck me as 'natural' enthusiasts, even though they tended to love cars. In fact, a few struck me as somewhat cynical. But that's just my experience.

You're actually dead-on on mechanics.  They usually start in the field because of a love for cars, but then lose their passion once their love becomes 'work'.  The end result is the cynicism.

This thread is officially derailed.

Agreed, but some great discussion as usual anyways. 

And I'll also reference my earlier point too (for completeness), depending on the family members' level of interest in keyboards and the subtlety of differences between the F and M to the non-enthusiast, a Unicomp M might be just fine.

[1391406]

depending on the family members' level of interest in keyboards and the subtlety of differences between the F and M to the non-enthusiast, a Unicomp M might be just fine.

My wife and son are about as enthusiastic about keyboards as a chicken walking into KFC and they can tell the difference. They just don't care.

[ander]

My wife and son are about as enthusiastic about keyboards as a chicken walking into KFC...

That's an awesome metaphor—it'll come in handy at our next party. Thanks!

And now I'm signing out of this topic. I'd had coffee earlier, BTW.