Programmers Keyboard

[lordmockfraunz]

Hello there!
I am currently searching for a new keyboard. I use it most commonly for programming / typing.
Which switches would you recommend? Mx-Blues? Mx-Reds?
And could you also recommend a Keyboard? Preferred are backlit keyboards with US Layout and some media keys.
Additionally, I need a reseller that ships to the EU.

thanks in advance!

[kinetic]

What kind programming do you do?  Do you use a particular IDE?  Are you in UNIX much and do you use VIM?

[primered6]

Hey there and welcome!
Well unlike some I love the Cherry MX Reds on my Poker 2 60% and use it for most of my work and for mostly C and Java.
Though I think it's down to personal preference if you're looking for an MX Red/Blues.. I would think something like a Cherry MX 3.0, Coolermaster CM Storm or a Ducky Zero would be good, cheap/modest price and are readily accessible in most EU countries though things like Amazon.   

Though for further help I'd agree with kinetic they have there pros and cons depending on what you're doing..
Also is this your first mechanical? As getting anything smaller than a tenkeyless would be rather limiting/confusing or frustrating to most people to start with without being used to it, as least I find that with my poker..

[jacobolus]

I am currently searching for a new keyboard. I use it most commonly for programming / typing. Which switches would you recommend? Mx-Blues? Mx-Reds?

This is an extremely personal decision. You should try to find a store, person, or meetup group in your area where you can try a variety of different keyboards and figure out your own preferences.

Personally I don’t like either MX blue or MX red (I prefer Alps and various more obscure switch alternatives).

And could you also recommend a Keyboard?

Again, entirely personal. For a programmer willing to invest some time and effort, I would recommend a non-standard keyboard, ideally split with extra thumb keys, and programmable firmware so you can customize the keyboard’s behavior. But you might want to keep a standard layout so that e.g. your coworkers can type on your keyboard without being too confused, or so that you can avoid context switching whenever you need to use someone else’s keyboard.

You should also figure out whether you need arrow keys, a number pad, F keys, etc., or whether you want the smallest board to make a pointing device easier to reach.

* * *

If you’re in the EU, also check out the http://deskthority.net community which has a higher proportion of EU-local members than geekhack.

[livingspeedbump]

I do any/all programing on an HHKB. Not a cheap option, but the layout is really great for programing in qutie a few languages. It is also very comfortable to use for extended periods and quite enough to use in almost any office situation.

[Altis]

Realforce 87U is my go-to for programming.

For more reasonably priced options, I'd say MX Brown are a pretty easy to live option. I find linear to really nice for gaming and casual use, but too prone to mistypes for programming work unless you get them heavier, but then they're too fatiguing for programming work.

I think backlighting is overrated because if you can't see the legends, you're probably ruining your eyes by staring at the screen. (This is even more true of laptops)

[bocahgundul]

HHKB

[Findecanor]

Form factor:
1) Do you use the numeric keypad often? For some people it is a must-have, others people never use it.
2) Do you use the arrow keys a lot, nav cluster? (or are you a VI freak who uses JKLM to move the cursor?)
3) Do you use an IDE that requires the function keys?
If your answer is No all three above, then you could use a 60% keyboard that has only the main cluster.
If you don't use a numeric keypad then I would suggest a "tenkeyless" because then you could place the mouse closer to the centre - which is better for avoiding problems in your mouse arm in the long run.

Layout: Many programmers prefer ANSI layout because of how many programming symbols are readily available, but an ANSI-layout keyboard can be difficult if you want to use a European ISO layout (vertical Enter key) because it is one key short compared to ISO.
You can use US-ANSI layout with any keyboard - you only need to change it in the operating system you use because the mapping form scancode to symbol is in the operating system. I know that at least Windows do allow quick switching between different layouts.
If you buy a keyboard from outside the EU then you are likely to get to pay import taxes. But there are ANSI options for inside the EU: The Keyboard Company in the UK has several models available in ANSI for instance. ANSI is also used in the Netherlands.
Me, I write C in Swedish layout - and the Alt Gr key gets a lot of use, but that is what I am used to.

Switches: I have programmed on Cherry MX Blue, Brown and Clear as well as on Topre. All of these are fine. Blue might not be popular in an open-plan office (although I have seen people use it.....)
I have tried Cherry MX Black, but I would not recommend it as it is a bit tiring.

Backlighting: Completely unnecessary for professionals who know how to type. I have been using a keyboard without any legends at all with no problem, and it shouldn't be a problem for you either.
Most backlit keycaps are translucent caps that have been painted with an opaque paint. The paint has very little texture and it will wear off with wear, leaving ugly glowing holes. High-quality keycaps of PBT, on the other hand, should last a lifetime. If you are going to hammer the keys for 8 hours a day, five days a week for five years (or so..) then quality matters.

Media keys: You can always remap existing keys, or a combo to a media key. For instance, I have Print Screen, Scroll Lock and Pause mapped to Previous track, Next track and Play/Pause.

[Cicada88]

HHKB or RealForce

[kekman]

You really shouldn't listen to anyone's opinion on which keyboard or keyboard switch or layout is their favourite for programming. As others have said, it is a DEEPLY personal preference, so get out to your local computer store or keyboard vendor and try a bit of everything out. Some people will go through tens of keyboards to find that their preferred layout and switch really wasn't the most expensive or the rarest keyboard.

[ileben]

Context:
- I spend about 10 hours a day programming in C++ (work + home)
- I mostly use Visual Studio

To me, having the standard layout (at least the TKL part of it) is very important. I have tried to do programming on 75% and 60% layouts, but I find it just gets in the way of my productivity. Having to press Fn before something else to access Home/End/Delete/Backspace/F-keys is just unnecessary gymnastics that I really don't want to be doing while coding. Having a dedicated key that does that, and only that is crucial for me.

When I'm stepping through code in a debugger with F10/F11/Shift+F11 the last thing I wanna be doing is using an extra finger/hand to trigger those commands, instead of focusing on the actual code and/or possibly mousing over things to inspect variable values, types etc. Also commands like "compile current file" become Ctrl+Fn+F7, instead of just Ctrl+F7 etc....

Lastly, since I work in a big studio, being able to share my keyboard with anyone who comes by and also being able to use someone else's keyboard while reviewing their code is vital to my work, so standard is where it's at.

Also, in my personal experience, any opinions made while trying a keyboard out at a compute store have more or less no correlation to how you will feel about it when you actually sit down to do some work for long periods of time.

EDIT: to put down an actual suggestion: get a Filco (full size or tenkeyless) and you have a guaranteed baseline decent out of the box experience. No messing around with inconsistent switches, potentially rattling cherry stabs that will require extra modding to feel good, or any other b****. If you feel adventurous, get a Realforce 87u (uniform 55g weight is FUN, but gets a little tiring after a couple hours, uniform 45g is the way to go imo).

[rowdy]

Welcome to Geekhack!

From the comments above, you can probably gather that no-one can tell you which keyboard is best for you.

This is something that is entirely subjective, but a few tips might help to narrow down your decision.

If your programming environment heavily relies on arrow and other navigation keys, and/or function keys, you might find a 40% or 60% cubmersome to use, having to press Fn+something to get the key you really want.

If you share an environment with other people (work) or need to work really early or really late (home), you might find clicky switches will be distracting or annoying to others near you.

if you have strong fingers you may find softer switches error-prone (e.g. reds, blues).  If you have less strong fingers you might find heavier switches tiring (e.g. blacks, greens).

If you have a large budget, Topre is definitely something to consider.  RealForce if you need arroe and function keys, HHKB if you are mainly using vim or similar under Unix, or have a lack of desk space.

Unless you really need a numpad, I would suggest at most a TKL keyboard.  Saves desk space and it's great having the mouse a bit closer.  You can get a separate numpad later on if you find you really miss it.

Personally I like programming with my HHKB on my Mac at home, and a TKL CODE with MX clears at work (on Windows).

[ideus]

First, you have to define if you want to go Topre, buckle spring, ALPS or MX. If you choose the last your options will be wider, also you can opt to build your own board, that is in my opinion the best way to go, if at the end you want to get the best customized experience for your own needs.

The investment of some time and money worth when it comes to get the keyboard that best fits your particular needs; therefore, I suggest you to consider to build your own keyboard starting with a good programmable PCB. Choices are limited to winkeyless and GON, unless you want to wait for a GB to get one. My experience is with GON and his PCBs are great.




As it has been said, nobody can tell what keyboard is the best for you, but yourself, that is the good part of building your own with a programmable platform, because you may fine tunning it until it fits your particular needs.

[derb2k2]

for pure typing (i.e. not gaming) and programming, I prefer to use Topre now.

I do my programming at work with my HHKB and I've learned necessary function layer keys. I did have to modify some of my habits while working on the command line but in the end, it's been worth it.

It might seem a bit daunting to use a second layer (fn) but it just becomes almost natural.

[lordmockfraunz]

Thank you for all your awesome replies!

Of course I know that it comes to personal preference, but I wanted to hear some opinions.

It is my first mechanical, currently I use an old Razer Lycosa 
The IDE I use is Visual Studio, so I need a lot of F-Keys to debug etc.
I actually need Tenkeys and Arrow Keys too.

Thanks Altis for the hint with backlight, I actually never thought about it in that way. I will probably get one without backlight now!

Currently I use the keyboard with German Layout (the big vertical enter key)
But I would love to use ANSI with the horizontal enter key.

I want to use US-Layout, because the brackets and colon etc. is easier to access.
And I need to have it labeled on the keys, because my coworkers work with german layout.

So the bigger question now for me is, where can I order Keyboards to Austria? Unfortunately Cherry MX-Board 3 cannot be ordered with mx-blues and US Layout on amazon and in Cherry Shop.
Does anyone know a good shop?

kind regards

[jacobolus]

I think backlighting is overrated because if you can't see the legends, you're probably ruining your eyes by staring at the screen. (This is even more true of laptops)

I personally dislike backlighting on keyboards, which seems like a cheesy gimmick, but note, there’s nothing “eye ruining” about looking at a computer display in the dark.

The main problem with looking at computer displays (or televisions, or phones, ...) late at night is that the short wavelength light disrupts your sleep schedule. It’s not going to strongly affect your eyesight though.

For kids/teenagers, it’s a good idea to make sure to spend enough time outside in bright light (i.e. light coming from the sun) with distant objects to focus on. Kids who don’t spend enough time outside end up myopic.

But I’ve never seen any evidence that looking at screens in a dark surrounding has any kind of negative effect on anyone.

[Findecanor]

The main problem with looking at computer displays (or televisions, or phones, ...) late at night is that the short wavelength light disrupts your sleep schedule. It’s not going to strongly affect your eyesight though.

Same effect with blue backlight btw.

[jacobolus]

Same effect with blue backlight btw.

Right. And blue or “white” LEDs in general. (A white LED is made up of a narrow-spectrum blue LED plus a broader-spectrum green-yellow-orange phosphor which absorbs some of the blue light and reemits it at a longer wavelength.)

For indoor lighting late at night, try to stick to relatively dim incandescent bulbs, or LED lamps with a very warm correlated color temperature (CCT of <3000K), and keep devices with blue LEDs out of your bedroom.