Model M - scratchy key downpresses

[nmur]

hey guys, I recently bought a 42H1292 Model M from 23/08/96. my first BS.

overall condition is quite good: all keys working, no rivets broken. almost no yellowing, just a bit dirty really. however I've noticed that every downpress has a bit of plastic-on-plastic friction. is this normal for BS?

[chyros]

Not really, Model Ms are supposed to feel pretty smooth. Of course there are plastic parts interacting in it though, so I find it hard to judge the amount of friction you mean Oo .

[fohat.digs]

just a bit dirty really

Give it a thorough cleaning including soap and water for the caps and stems and turn the body upside-down and vacuum it well.

[nmur]

just a bit dirty really

Give it a thorough cleaning including soap and water for the caps and stems and turn the body upside-down and vacuum it well.

will do, thanks.

one of the little stems on the bottom housing that the backplate hooks onto snapped off (probably during shipping, it was just wrapped in lots of bubble wrap, no box etc) so I'm waiting for that to cure. it all needs a good cleaning so I'll probably do it all in one go.

[fohat.digs]

one of the little stems on the bottom housing that the backplate hooks onto snapped off

If you are referring to what is usually called a "broken rivet" it is possible to carefully drill it out with a 1.5mm bit and install an M2x8mm screw.

[Bucake]

i doubt the dirt is the issue, if literally every press has it..
my guess is that it's just supposed to be like this, or it was a bad production run.
my Model M is from '89 (i think) and it doesn't feel scratchy at all. maybe it's just the newer molds or different plastic-composition that makes the strokes gritty?

I don't own a "newer" Model M though, so i can't do a comparison..
but i would at least clean it, very satisfying once it's done

[nmur]

one of the little stems on the bottom housing that the backplate hooks onto snapped off

If you are referring to what is usually called a "broken rivet" it is possible to carefully drill it out with a 1.5mm bit and install an M2x8mm screw.

nah nah all the rivets are intact, sorry, I couldn't describe it well enough. I'm talking about this thing:

i doubt the dirt is the issue, if literally every press has it..
my guess is that it's just supposed to be like this, or it was a bad production run.
my Model M is from '89 (i think) and it doesn't feel scratchy at all. maybe it's just the newer molds or different plastic-composition that makes the strokes gritty?

I don't own a "newer" Model M though, so i can't do a comparison..
but i would at least clean it, very satisfying once it's done

yeah 96 is pretty recent for a Model M it seems, so I'd understand if there were a difference.

[chyros]

Newer Model Ms don't feel scratchier than older ones. There are many rumours going around that somehow older Ms are better than newer ones but in terms of keyfeel this is just not true. I'm typing on a '95 Lexmark one right now as it happens, and it's no more scratchy than my IBM '85 prototype (which is so old it was actually hand-built rather than machined).

[Snowdog993]

hey guys, I recently bought a 42H1292 Model M from 23/08/96. my first BS.

overall condition is quite good: all keys working, no rivets broken. almost no yellowing, just a bit dirty really. however I've noticed that every downpress has a bit of plastic-on-plastic friction. is this normal for BS?

This makes me wonder.  Every downpress of every key?  It feels this way?  Does it feel like total crap when you type on it?  Perhaps after a good cleaning, it will be fine.

http://imgur.com/a/b4Q7Q

I really, really hope the original owner did not run the thing through a dishwasher.  That could mess it up pretty bad.

http://phosphorglow.net/2015/05/27/130/

[nmur]

hey guys, I recently bought a 42H1292 Model M from 23/08/96. my first BS.

overall condition is quite good: all keys working, no rivets broken. almost no yellowing, just a bit dirty really. however I've noticed that every downpress has a bit of plastic-on-plastic friction. is this normal for BS?

This makes me wonder.  Every downpress of every key?  It feels this way?  Does it feel like total crap when you type on it?  Perhaps after a good cleaning, it will be fine.

http://imgur.com/a/b4Q7Q

I really, really hope the original owner did not run the thing through a dishwasher.  That could mess it up pretty bad.

http://phosphorglow.net/2015/05/27/130/

yikes  my board's membrane doesn't looks that bad and I don't see any rust, I should know for sure once I clean it out.

yeah pretty much every key has this friction going on, but some keys have it worse than others. it doesn't feel great to type on at 50wpm + speeds.

I'll clean it out tomorrow or sometime soon, and inspect it more thoroughly

[nmur]

update

taken apart, popped all caps off, inspected the barrel frame. doesn't appear to be super dirty, however it's covered in a very fine dust. this dust seems to have crept all the way inside the barrels themselves:




I am hoping that this dust/sand hasn't worn down the plastic of the stems too much.

i wasn't planning on bolt modding this (yet) because all of the rivets are intact. however it seems like if i want to give the barrel frame a decent clean, I'd have to take it apart anyway?

[rowdy]

The keycaps (top parts) are PBT, I wouldn't be surprised if the lower half is PBT too.  I wouldn't expect that to wear down much with a little dust.

[chyros]

Powder dust! That's the worst. No wonder it feels scratchy, you're almost literally typing on sandpaper.

This is a bummer. You need to get this dust out, but that's not easy with Model Ms. See if you can hoover it out.

[nmur]

Powder dust! That's the worst. No wonder it feels scratchy, you're almost literally typing on sandpaper.

This is a bummer. You need to get this dust out, but that's not easy with Model Ms. See if you can hoover it out.

yeah I want to be very thorough with it so I'm not sure that a vacuum would be able to displace all of the dust. I'd also be worried about sacking out some springs (is that a possibility?)

either that or I can wipe the inside of each barrel with a q tip...

[chyros]

Powder dust! That's the worst. No wonder it feels scratchy, you're almost literally typing on sandpaper.

This is a bummer. You need to get this dust out, but that's not easy with Model Ms. See if you can hoover it out.

yeah I want to be very thorough with it so I'm not sure that a vacuum would be able to displace all of the dust. I'd also be worried about sacking out some springs (is that a possibility?)

either that or I can wipe the inside of each barrel with a q tip...

I've hoovered loads of Ms, never had a spring get killed out sucked out before. I agree it's unlikely you'll get every single bit out, though, so yeah, afterwards you can try wiping it with a cotton bud and see if that works. Unlike electromechanical switches I wouldn't advise trying to blow out the dust with compressed air though, because you might lodge it deeper into the mechanism, and perhaps even into the membranes (which would be a disaster).

Of course it would be a doddle after a bolt mod, but a bolt mod itself is anything but a doddle unfortunately.

[nmur]

one more update

let the case soak in warm soapy water, then let the caps and stems soak in warm water with a few dental tabs.

cleaned out the barrel housings, using qtips, then immediately put each stem back in toprevent the dust from getting back in:



significantly better feel now. typing this post on it now!

I'll include a short album that shows the restoration:

More

before (ebay listing photo)


after:

thanks for everyone's help with this!

[Bucake]

nice! qtips rule!
Enjoy Your Feeling

[SamirD]

Glad you were able to revive it!  Crazy that the dust was that fine.  I wonder what that stuff was and what environment that board was in previously?

[chyros]

I've had an Alps clone board that had powder in it that came from fire extinguishers. Other sources could be concrete dust, desert sand (the very fine stuff)...

[bastones]

I've had an Alps clone board that had powder in it that came from fire extinguishers. Other sources could be concrete dust, desert sand (the very fine stuff)...

Desert sand? How does a keyboard end up with desert sand in it?

[nmur]

I've had an Alps clone board that had powder in it that came from fire extinguishers. Other sources could be concrete dust, desert sand (the very fine stuff)...

Desert sand? How does a keyboard end up with desert sand in it?

this is Australia, so there are deserts and beaches  )

my best guess is that the powder is fine sawdust though

[SamirD]

Don't forget sheetrock dust--that stuff will dry out anything--almost ruined the leather steering wheel in one of my cars after my hands were caked in that stuff.

[chyros]

I've had an Alps clone board that had powder in it that came from fire extinguishers. Other sources could be concrete dust, desert sand (the very fine stuff)...

Desert sand? How does a keyboard end up with desert sand in it?

We get Sahara sand blown over right into Europe. Shows up on cars after a while.

[SamirD]

I've had an Alps clone board that had powder in it that came from fire extinguishers. Other sources could be concrete dust, desert sand (the very fine stuff)...

Desert sand? How does a keyboard end up with desert sand in it?

We get Sahara sand blown over right into Europe. Shows up on cars after a while.

Wild!  I would have never imagined that. 

[fohat.digs]

African fallout from dust storms is a major "thing" and Caribbean islands get tons of it every year.

http://phys.org/news/2013-08-african-clouds-caribbean-scientists.html

[SamirD]

African fallout from dust storms is a major "thing" and Caribbean islands get tons of it every year.

http://phys.org/news/2013-08-african-clouds-caribbean-scientists.html

Wow, this is really bad.

Dust is everywhere in India and it has hundreds of dangerous microorganisms in it.  I had the unfortunate issue of getting sick after returning to the US because I somehow ingested dust that was on the bottom of my shoes (didn't leave them outside and lysol them down like I do now).  That had my stomach messed up pretty good for 2 weeks straight as the bad bacteria took over my digestive process.  I was very weak and couldn't eat much at all.

Knowing this type of dust is KNOWN to have bad stuff in it and there's nothing being done is not a good thing.  Rain is really good at washing dust out of the air, and since western countries have good sewage systems, rains can flush the problematic stuff into the sewage system for routine disposal.  But until then, all that bad dust can harm a lot of people on a lot of different levels.

[Hypersphere]

Apart from the problems you have described, including the dust, when I compare the feel of my Model M vs. Model F keyboards, the Model M boards feel somewhat scratchy. The Model F boards are smoother, at least this is how they feel to me.

[fohat.digs]

If you just completely tore your Model M/Fs down and cleaned every piece thoroughly as soon as you got it, you would not have these problems.