Author Topic: Seeking advice on a new mechanical keyboard  (Read 4568 times)

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Offline Damerae

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Seeking advice on a new mechanical keyboard
« on: Fri, 01 January 2016, 20:26:30 »
Hello and Happy New Year!

This is my first post on these forums.  I am happy that I came upon Geekhack through researching different Mechanical Keyboards.  I've done some superficial searching through the forums and have found some useful information, but I thought I would make a post to receive some direct advice.

I've been using a DasKeyboard Full w/ Cherry MX Brown Switches [with no mods what-so-ever] for about 3 years now.  It's been a great keyboard, however I've been experiencing some finger/hand fatigue and am ready for a change.

I primarily use my computer for grad school (lots of word processing and writing), computer games (RPGs, MOBAs, and FPSers), and daily use. 

After some very on-the-surface research and recommendation from a friend, I purchased a Choc Mini 84 USB NKRO Mechanical Gaming Keyboard (Cherry MX-Red Switches).  I liked how compact the keyboard is.  In addition, I liked the feel of the red switches much more than the brown switch.  I've never been able to take advantage of the "soft-bump" of a brown switch, so a linear switch like a red felt more natural and comfortable to my fingers.  After a few days, a couple keys started to stick and the keyboard started doing weird things whenever I would type with it.  Also, I disliked how the keyboard didn't feel as solid as my DasKeyboard.  For a conclusion: I decided to return the Choc Mini keyboard and do some more research. 

After some google searches and reading around Geekhack, I have found the Filco Majestouch-2, Tenkeyless, NKR, Soft Linear Action, USA Keyboard FKBN87MRL/EB2 or USA Filco Ninja Majestouch-2, Tenkeyless, NKR, Soft Linear Action, Keyboard FKBN87MRL/EFB2 to be both great choices. 

In addition, I've read that Ducky keyboards are a great choice as well.  The Ducky keyboard that I think would meet my interests and needs would be the Ducky One Blue LED Backlit Mechanical Keyboard (Red Cherry MX).  The keyboard is a Full keyboard, but that's alright if it's worth the purchase. 

That all being said, I'm interested to read what members of the forums recommend.   I'm open to suggestions other than the ones I mentioned.  I'd like to keep the price under $200, the keyboard to have red switches - unless, of course, someone recommends a different switch they may think is better for my general needs - and, the keyboard to be somewhat "silent".  It doesn't have to be super quiet, I'd just like it be more quiet than my Daskeyboard: brown switches are noisy, in my opinion.  Also, I don't care about key lighting etc.

If it looks like I should go with the Filco keyboard, I'm not sure if I should purchase the regular Majestouch-2 or the Majestouch-2 Ninja - any clarification between the too would be greatly appreciated. 

Lastly, no matter what keyboard I purchase, I think it'd be neat to modify it a little and purchase the PBT Cherry MX Keycap Set - Dye Sublimated Blue/Gray (Ducky)  SKU: S9C3-S108-USPHZ1.  I'm pretty sure they'd work with the Filco board, but I could be wrong.

Thank you for taking the time to read this.
« Last Edit: Fri, 01 January 2016, 20:30:14 by Damerae »

Offline Altis

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Re: Seeking advice on a new mechanical keyboard
« Reply #1 on: Fri, 01 January 2016, 21:11:08 »
Hello and welcome!

Sounds like you have a good idea of what you're doing. I don't think that MX Reds are any quieter than MX Brown though -- the only difference is the hump which doesn't really add any sound.

If you're looking for ultimate smoothness, you may want some Gateron MX-replica switches. Smoothness tends to make them a bit quieter, too.

One more thing, adding sound deadening inside the case makes the keyboard noticeably quieter and refined, in my experience.

If you really want the Ducky PBT blue/grey set and can't find it, PM me... I have a set that I haven't used that I suppose I could part with.

Have fun!
WhiteFox (Gateron Brown) -- Realforce 87U 45g -- Realforce 104UG (Hi Pro 45g) -- Realforce 108US 30g JIS -- HHKB Pro 2 -- IBM Model M ('90) -- IBM Model M SSK ('87) -- NMB RT-101 & RT-8255C+ (Hi-Tek Space Invaders) -- Chicony KB-5181 (Monterey Blue Alps) -- KPT-102 (KPT Alps) -- KUL ES-87 (62/65g Purple Zealios) -- CM QFR (MX Red) -- Apple Aluminum BT -- Realforce 23u Numpad -- Logitech K740 -- QSENN DT-35 -- Zenith Z-150 (Green Alps)

Offline rowdy

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Re: Seeking advice on a new mechanical keyboard
« Reply #2 on: Sat, 02 January 2016, 04:56:43 »
Welcome to Geekhack!

Switches sticking after a few days is definitely not normal.  But you have returned the keyboard anyway.

Most TKL keyboards are fairly solid - Ducky, CM QFR, KUL, CODE - all great, solid keyboards (I have at least one of each, and none has failed be yet).

You can try installing O-rings under the keycaps, which will reduce the sound from bottoming out, and also cushion the switches as you press them down, at a slight loss of downward stroke (MX switches actuate after 2mm, and travel a further 2mm to the bottom - installing 1mm O-rings will still actuate after 2mm, but the O-ring will hit the switch after just 1mm and kinda bounce).
"Because keyboards are accessories to PC makers, they focus on minimizing the manufacturing costs. But that’s incorrect. It’s in HHKB’s slogan, but when America’s cowboys were in the middle of a trip and their horse died, they would leave the horse there. But even if they were in the middle of a desert, they would take their saddle with them. The horse was a consumable good, but the saddle was an interface that their bodies had gotten used to. In the same vein, PCs are consumable goods, while keyboards are important interfaces." - Eiiti Wada

NEC APC-H4100E | Ducky DK9008 Shine MX blue LED red | Ducky DK9008 Shine MX blue LED green | Link 900243-08 | CM QFR MX black | KeyCool 87 white MX reds | HHKB 2 Pro | Model M 02-Mar-1993 | Model M 29-Nov-1995 | CM Trigger (broken) | CM QFS MX green | Ducky DK9087 Shine 3 TKL Yellow Edition MX black | Lexmark SSK 21-Apr-1994 | IBM SSK 13-Oct-1987 | CODE TKL MX clear | Model M 122 01-Jun-1988

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Offline SamirD

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Re: Seeking advice on a new mechanical keyboard
« Reply #3 on: Sat, 02 January 2016, 09:05:24 »
Welcome!

You've done a solid amount of research and I think you're definitely on the right track.  One keyboard you may want to look at that is inside your budget is one based on the Matias Quiet Linear switches.  I believe Matias will make a keyboard for you with these switches for no additional charge (from what I recall from a few months ago).  These are supposed to be butter smooth and are actually even a little lighter than the cherry reds that you like.

Offline Damerae

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Re: Seeking advice on a new mechanical keyboard
« Reply #4 on: Sat, 02 January 2016, 20:25:14 »
Thank you all for the friendly Welcome!

Sounds like you have a good idea of what you're doing. I don't think that MX Reds are any quieter than MX Brown though -- the only difference is the hump which doesn't really add any sound.

If you're looking for ultimate smoothness, you may want some Gateron MX-replica switches. Smoothness tends to make them a bit quieter, too.

One more thing, adding sound deadening inside the case makes the keyboard noticeably quieter and refined, in my experience.

If you really want the Ducky PBT blue/grey set and can't find it, PM me... I have a set that I haven't used that I suppose I could part with.

Have fun!

Hmm...  Fair enough.  I was going based off observation between my Daskeyboard and the Choco Mini; my Daskeyboard is louder than the Choco Mini.  I could be over-reacting though.

I've looked into the Gateron MX-replica switches, and they look solid.  I don't think I will purchase them now, but they're an option at least for later down the road.

Thank you for the recommendation of adding sound deadening - I like the idea.

Lastly, that's really nice of you to offer your Ducky PBT blue/grey set.  I'll definitely keep it mind.  I find a site that has them in stock and selling them, I think, for $60 or so.  I'd have no problem paying you for yours if I do decide to purchase them.  I don't want to buy them until I know which keyboard I am getting for sure.

Most TKL keyboards are fairly solid - Ducky, CM QFR, KUL, CODE - all great, solid keyboards (I have at least one of each, and none has failed be yet).

You can try installing O-rings under the keycaps, which will reduce the sound from bottoming out, and also cushion the switches as you press them down, at a slight loss of downward stroke (MX switches actuate after 2mm, and travel a further 2mm to the bottom - installing 1mm O-rings will still actuate after 2mm, but the O-ring will hit the switch after just 1mm and kinda bounce).

Thanks for recommending the O-rings, I'll definitely look into them.  They sound like a good way to modify the keyboard more to my preference.

Ya - I have narrowed it down to Ducky, KUL, and Filco.  That being said, it seems as though many people consider the HHKB the "hot item" - so, it has be intrigued.

You've done a solid amount of research and I think you're definitely on the right track.  One keyboard you may want to look at that is inside your budget is one based on the Matias Quiet Linear switches.  I believe Matias will make a keyboard for you with these switches for no additional charge (from what I recall from a few months ago).  These are supposed to be butter smooth and are actually even a little lighter than the cherry reds that you like.

I'll have to look into Matias keyboards some more - they look solid.  If by lighter you mean they require an actuation force less than 45g, I'd be a little hesitant.  However, if by "light" you just mean they are easier to press and wouldn't cause fatigue then that's definitely nice. The red switches were definitely pushing it when it came to the "light" pushes.  I've been reading that some people/gamers experience accidental presses on Red switches already.  I could be reading the wrong sources, though.



Overall, I am glad to hear I have come to the right place and am on the right track.  I appreciate any advice.


Offline Damerae

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Re: Seeking advice on a new mechanical keyboard
« Reply #5 on: Sat, 02 January 2016, 20:40:01 »
After some more research and increasing my budget to ~$250, I've narrowed it down to the following boards:

Ducky Shine 5 - Nature White Cherry MX
Filco Majestouch-2/Filco Ninja Majestouch-2 - Red Switches
Ducky One Blue LED - Red Switches
KUL ES-87 - Red Switches


I've seen the Happy Hacking Professional 2 board mentioned a lot, so that has me intrigued; however, I think that it's a little "too much" keyboard for what my intended uses are for it: grad school (lots of word processing and writing), computer games (RPGs, MOBAs, and FPSers), and daily use.  I do absolutely no coding or the like.

While I enjoyed the feel of the Cherry MX red switches on the Choco Mini, I'm a bit concerned about the accentuation force of 45g.  I didn't notice myself making too many mistakes.  I did notice I made more mistakes when typing more of my advanced passwords though.  Any character I had to type with the shift key was definitely creating problems, but that could just be do to a faulty key.  I do know for one thing that I like Linear switches.  I've still never been able to really adjust to the "bump" of tactile switches like my browns.  I have happy fingers that like to feel the key touch the bottom of the board.

This leads me into my curiosity of the Ducky Shine 5 w/ Nature White Switches...  They could be a solid balance between a red and black.  Am I totally sold on the board?  Not really.  I'm sure after more use of Red Switches, I'd be fine.

I was pretty set on the Filco board, but after browsing the forums more, it seems as though the KUL ES-87 is quite a popular red switch board.

Anyway, any input to help me narrow the list would be greatly appreciated.  Thank you!

Offline rowdy

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Re: Seeking advice on a new mechanical keyboard
« Reply #6 on: Sun, 03 January 2016, 03:45:25 »
HHKB is definitely a different type of keyboard, and nearly everyone who tries one loves it!  I like mine :D

But it is a big investment to make if you've already settled on MX red or similar.  You'll probably end up getting an HHKB eventually ;)

The nature white is a new switch, so there's not many reports about it yet.  It is reputedly 55g, which is 10g more than reds, and 5g less than MX black.  Hence it is apparently closer to black than red, although either difference is not a huge amount.

Simple times a couple of years back, when we could recommend Ducky Shine if someone wanted backlighting, QFR on a limited budget and no blacklighting, or Filco on a higher budget with no backlighting.  Now there are at least a dozen good starter keyboards, and the range just explodes from there.

Any of those boards you have listed should be fine.  With a backlit board there is always a chance, a small chance, that you will find a defective LED.  I have, er, 3 working backlit keyboards, some are several years old, and all LEDs work perfectly.  Other people have different experiences.

The KUL is apparently a good board too, although I haven't got one.  Also consider the Quickfire Rapid-I.
"Because keyboards are accessories to PC makers, they focus on minimizing the manufacturing costs. But that’s incorrect. It’s in HHKB’s slogan, but when America’s cowboys were in the middle of a trip and their horse died, they would leave the horse there. But even if they were in the middle of a desert, they would take their saddle with them. The horse was a consumable good, but the saddle was an interface that their bodies had gotten used to. In the same vein, PCs are consumable goods, while keyboards are important interfaces." - Eiiti Wada

NEC APC-H4100E | Ducky DK9008 Shine MX blue LED red | Ducky DK9008 Shine MX blue LED green | Link 900243-08 | CM QFR MX black | KeyCool 87 white MX reds | HHKB 2 Pro | Model M 02-Mar-1993 | Model M 29-Nov-1995 | CM Trigger (broken) | CM QFS MX green | Ducky DK9087 Shine 3 TKL Yellow Edition MX black | Lexmark SSK 21-Apr-1994 | IBM SSK 13-Oct-1987 | CODE TKL MX clear | Model M 122 01-Jun-1988

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Offline Den441

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Re: Seeking advice on a new mechanical keyboard
« Reply #7 on: Sun, 03 January 2016, 04:19:45 »
There is nothing wrong with having more than one keyboard down the road. In fact, I highly recommend it. However, I would suggest starting out with the nature whites. I have 62g Korean spring Reds which are similar because they feel like something between reds and blacks and I love them. Not too heavy for long sessions and not so light you can't even feel the spring inside. Down the road you can get a HHKB if you still want it. I think you would appreciate it even more that way after using the linear switches. I have three keyboards with different layouts and switches. I change them up every month or so for a nice change of pace.
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Offline mrlooolz

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Re: Seeking advice on a new mechanical keyboard
« Reply #8 on: Sun, 03 January 2016, 04:35:31 »
Hello and welcome! You are older MK user. I went with the ducky shine 5 browns as my first. I am convincing my self that I must like(  I will know soon). However, I did my fair share of research and I think ducky is a good brand, I see many people in the forums still using their shine3s and love them! Filco is another good brand. I have a friend who swears by them! with regards to sound, When I asked if i should put O-rings on my to come ducky shine 5, people said no. I hope you find what you are looking for and I would take what the guys type here with an open mind. People know their stuff. Also with the HHKB, as an enthusiast (if i can call my self one) I know I will own one eventually! but it wouldnt be my first choice, jumping form factor like that would be hard. Especially for me in games, I think a HHKB would be quiet hard to use if you need modifiers all the time (like MMOs) but once you can get used to the form then you would program it and adapt! hope this help!
Ducky Shine 5 w Mx Browns  | White fox w Zelio's purple 67g | Gateron Blank set

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Offline derb2k2

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Re: Seeking advice on a new mechanical keyboard
« Reply #9 on: Sun, 03 January 2016, 07:06:31 »
dat first long post doe!!  ;D

Damerae, I think you are on the right track with MX reds. It sounds like you've done a lot of typing or have long typing sessions that would require these lighter switches. I would have recommended a topre board but it seems you do play lots of games and personally, I don't like to play video games with my HHKB. I will say that you'll have to look into a topre board down the line since the typing experience is optimal with these and you'll have the option to choose a 45-gram weighted board which is important. (btw, you get used to using the function layer on an HHKB, it rocks!). I'll add that there might be a learning curve with reds since you'll be pressing and consequently actuating the keys involuntarily, which can get annoying. Not too much of a problem later on though.

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Offline SamirD

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Re: Seeking advice on a new mechanical keyboard
« Reply #10 on: Sun, 03 January 2016, 10:11:36 »
I'll have to look into Matias keyboards some more - they look solid.  If by lighter you mean they require an actuation force less than 45g, I'd be a little hesitant.  However, if by "light" you just mean they are easier to press and wouldn't cause fatigue then that's definitely nice. The red switches were definitely pushing it when it came to the "light" pushes.  I've been reading that some people/gamers experience accidental presses on Red switches already.  I could be reading the wrong sources, though.
They do have an actuation force less than the reds, that's for sure.  But that actually is what makes a key 'light'--a higher weight typically means it is harder to press (except the Korean weight specs which is measured at a different point than the rest of the industry).  If you don't have any issues with accidental presses on the reds when you had them, there's a good chance that the Matias switch would also be fine for you.  If Matias is willing to give you a 30-day money back guarantee on it, I'd actually try it first before you buy another board with reds since from what I've seen most of those can't be returned to most vendors.

Offline Damerae

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Re: Seeking advice on a new mechanical keyboard
« Reply #11 on: Sun, 03 January 2016, 12:28:21 »
Great responses!  Thank you.

HHKB is definitely a different type of keyboard, and nearly everyone who tries one loves it!  I like mine :D

But it is a big investment to make if you've already settled on MX red or similar.  You'll probably end up getting an HHKB eventually ;)

The nature white is a new switch, so there's not many reports about it yet.  It is reputedly 55g, which is 10g more than reds, and 5g less than MX black.  Hence it is apparently closer to black than red, although either difference is not a huge amount.

The KUL is apparently a good board too, although I haven't got one.  Also consider the Quickfire Rapid-I.

Ya, you make some good points.  I am going to hold off on the HHKB for now and purchase it later on when I have some more experience with mechanical keyboards under-my-belt.  I'll go ahead and cross that one off of the list for now.

As for the Nature White's, I agree.  The difference doesn't seem too huge - but then again I don't have much experience under my belt.  The more I read, I feel as though purchasing a red switch board is the best bet, for now.  I'm still indecisive, though.

I checked out the Quickfire Rapid-I.  It seems like a solid board, but I haven't really read anything on it to grab my attention.   

There is nothing wrong with having more than one keyboard down the road. In fact, I highly recommend it. However, I would suggest starting out with the nature whites. I have 62g Korean spring Reds which are similar because they feel like something between reds and blacks and I love them. Not too heavy for long sessions and not so light you can't even feel the spring inside. Down the road you can get a HHKB if you still want it. I think you would appreciate it even more that way after using the linear switches. I have three keyboards with different layouts and switches. I change them up every month or so for a nice change of pace.

I plan to have more than one keyboard, but it'd be nice to find something to tie me over for a little while, though :D.  I appreciate your suggestion of starting with the Nature White switches.  They do catch my eye, but I'm not sure.  It's so tough! It'd be nice to see how the Nature Whites feel, so I could compare them to my experience with the Choco Mini.  I plan to pick up a HHKB down the road. 

Hello and welcome! You are older MK user. I went with the ducky shine 5 browns as my first. I am convincing my self that I must like(  I will know soon). However, I did my fair share of research and I think ducky is a good brand, I see many people in the forums still using their shine3s and love them! Filco is another good brand. I have a friend who swears by them! with regards to sound, When I asked if i should put O-rings on my to come ducky shine 5, people said no. I hope you find what you are looking for and I would take what the guys type here with an open mind. People know their stuff. Also with the HHKB, as an enthusiast (if i can call my self one) I know I will own one eventually! but it wouldnt be my first choice, jumping form factor like that would be hard. Especially for me in games, I think a HHKB would be quiet hard to use if you need modifiers all the time (like MMOs) but once you can get used to the form then you would program it and adapt! hope this help!

That's exciting!  I hope the Duck Shine 5 with brown switches works out for you.  Once the board arrives, you'll have to share your experience with me.  I'm glad you were able to decide on a board.  I am a very indecisive person that likes to research and read a lot, so keeping an open mind is easy for me; the more information I have, the better. 

dat first long post doe!!  ;D

Damerae, I think you are on the right track with MX reds. It sounds like you've done a lot of typing or have long typing sessions that would require these lighter switches. I would have recommended a topre board but it seems you do play lots of games and personally, I don't like to play video games with my HHKB. I will say that you'll have to look into a topre board down the line since the typing experience is optimal with these and you'll have the option to choose a 45-gram weighted board which is important. (btw, you get used to using the function layer on an HHKB, it rocks!). I'll add that there might be a learning curve with reds since you'll be pressing and consequently actuating the keys involuntarily, which can get annoying. Not too much of a problem later on though.

I know... I write a lot.  I should have put a "warning" on the thread title.  My apologies!  I do appreciate you taking the time to read it and contribute your opinion, though! :)

From most of the research I've done on the Topre switches, it seems as though the general consensus has been that they are not the ideal choice for video games.  I definitely plan to purchase an HHKB later on down the road.  This next keyboard I purchase will not be my last one  ;)

I'm glad to hear I'm on the right track.  It's definitely reassuring.  Other members of the forum seem to be of the same opinion.

It's good to know that I'll adept to the red switches over time.  I noticed myself making the errors you mention in the brief time I used the Choco Mini.  If I do end up with the red switches, I am definitely prepared to be patient. 

They do have an actuation force less than the reds, that's for sure.  But that actually is what makes a key 'light'--a higher weight typically means it is harder to press (except the Korean weight specs which is measured at a different point than the rest of the industry).  If you don't have any issues with accidental presses on the reds when you had them, there's a good chance that the Matias switch would also be fine for you.  If Matias is willing to give you a 30-day money back guarantee on it, I'd actually try it first before you buy another board with reds since from what I've seen most of those can't be returned to most vendors.

Thanks for the clarification!  I definitely experienced some accidental presses with the reds.  I'll have to take some time to adjust to the red switches if I decide to get them.  I will say that I enjoyed the red switches much more for the few days I had the Choco Mini though. I'll shoot Matias's customer help an email and see what they say.  That's a good idea. 




All of this help has been awesome!  Very nice of you all. 

Offline Damerae

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Re: Seeking advice on a new mechanical keyboard
« Reply #12 on: Sun, 03 January 2016, 13:12:46 »
I've narrowed down my list some more.

Top Choices:
Filco Majestouch-2 - Costar Stabilizers / Red Switches
KUL ES-87 - Cherry MX Red Switches

Maybe/On-The-Fence Choices
Ducky Shine 5 - Nature White Cherry MX
Ducky One Blue LED - Cherry MX Red Switches

Now that I've become more familiarized with the verbiage of mechanical keyboards, I found out that my Daskeyboard has Costar Stabilizers for the shift keys etc. and a Cherry Stabilizer for the Space Bar.  Very interesting.  I honestly can't tell a big difference between the space bar and the other keys, though.  Now that I know this, there was definitely something wrong with the left shift key on the Choco Mini, since it too used Costar Stabilizers on the shift keys etc.  The space bar on the Choco mini was Costar, which - if I am able to recall - felt better than the space bar on my Daskeyboard.

I am curious now as to how the smaller keys like shift etc. feel with the Cherry stabilizers.  If they are anything like the space bar on my Das, I am concerned.  The costar stabilizers do feel solid on the Daskeyboard.

That being said... the list would easily narrow down to just the Filco Majestouch-2; however, I am a little concerned with the input lag and age of the board from what I've read.  I'm sure this is something really silly to be concerned with, but it is still a thought on my mind.  I'm aware that the KUL has a low input lag and is fairly new to the market (I think?), but all of the keys are Cherry Stabilizers. 

Hmm...  Touch decisions...
 

Offline Solo

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Re: Seeking advice on a new mechanical keyboard
« Reply #13 on: Sun, 03 January 2016, 15:19:21 »
If you haven't already, check out the Leopold FC750R (which uses Cherry stabs). It's a better value out of the box than the MJ2, in my opinion, since it comes standard with thick PBT's. It also has a sound dampening pad underneath the PCB.

Offline Damerae

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Re: Seeking advice on a new mechanical keyboard
« Reply #14 on: Sun, 03 January 2016, 18:41:46 »
If you haven't already, check out the Leopold FC750R (which uses Cherry stabs). It's a better value out of the box than the MJ2, in my opinion, since it comes standard with thick PBT's. It also has a sound dampening pad underneath the PCB.

Thank you for the recommendation.  I've read some reviews on the Leopold FC750R but most of them seem to rate the board under its competitors (Filco, KUL, WASD, Ducky etc.).  I'm not too concerned about the price: I'm alright with spending the premium for a keyboard that fits my criteria.  That being said, I do like the idea of the sound dampening pad underneath the PCB.  Definitely a nice idea.  Hmm...

Offline x9Memoriez

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Re: Seeking advice on a new mechanical keyboard
« Reply #15 on: Mon, 04 January 2016, 01:14:18 »
If you're still looking, Massdrop has the Varmilo VB87M on sale right now for 129.99 + Shipping to wherever you're located.

Its a solid board, friend has one. Almost, or just as solidly built as the Filco, as well as being natively Bluetooth (Although apparently it has some problems, such as the BT disconnecting each time your computer shuts down, and requires a reconnect, about 5 seconds anyway), comes with decently thick caps in your choice of colours, and comes in pretty much any Cherry MX switch and Gateron switch under the sun.

I personally love the clickyness of blues, but O ring dampened Linear switches (Reds, Gateron Clears/Blacks) make really little sound, comparable to a rubber dome. (Although it feels 100x better obviously.)

I personally own a Deck Francium (Pretty unknown brand, but i love it. 75 AUD cant really hurt anyone anyway.) It uses the same plate and pcb as Filco, and is super moddable, much like the QFR. Couple 5-10$ cans of paint, LED's and aftermarket caps, and it just feels like "Yours". (Ill put a pic up in this post)

My 2c :3
« Last Edit: Mon, 04 January 2016, 01:22:50 by x9Memoriez »
Matrix 1.2OG | Constellation | Rukia | TMO50 | HHKB

Offline rowdy

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Re: Seeking advice on a new mechanical keyboard
« Reply #16 on: Mon, 04 January 2016, 04:21:04 »
Costar stabilisers have little plastic things that you insert under the bigger keycaps before you install the keycaps.

Cherry stabilisers those bits are built into the keyboard (into the stabilisers which are mounted to the PCB - nothing extra to add).

Cherry is easier to swap keycaps, but Costar is more forgiving of minor irregularities in the stems on keycaps.

Many people say Cherry stabilisers feel mushy, although Ducky have been clipping their stabilisers, which is supposed to make them feel less mushy.  Other Cherry stsbilisers can be self-clipped, although you would void warranty on the keyboard.

Personally I would go for Costar stabilisers - with a couple of gotchas for the stabiliser inserts, they are otherwise much more forgiving of less than perfect keycaps.
"Because keyboards are accessories to PC makers, they focus on minimizing the manufacturing costs. But that’s incorrect. It’s in HHKB’s slogan, but when America’s cowboys were in the middle of a trip and their horse died, they would leave the horse there. But even if they were in the middle of a desert, they would take their saddle with them. The horse was a consumable good, but the saddle was an interface that their bodies had gotten used to. In the same vein, PCs are consumable goods, while keyboards are important interfaces." - Eiiti Wada

NEC APC-H4100E | Ducky DK9008 Shine MX blue LED red | Ducky DK9008 Shine MX blue LED green | Link 900243-08 | CM QFR MX black | KeyCool 87 white MX reds | HHKB 2 Pro | Model M 02-Mar-1993 | Model M 29-Nov-1995 | CM Trigger (broken) | CM QFS MX green | Ducky DK9087 Shine 3 TKL Yellow Edition MX black | Lexmark SSK 21-Apr-1994 | IBM SSK 13-Oct-1987 | CODE TKL MX clear | Model M 122 01-Jun-1988

Ị̸͚̯̲́ͤ̃͑̇̑ͯ̊̂͟ͅs̞͚̩͉̝̪̲͗͊ͪ̽̚̚ ̭̦͖͕̑́͌ͬͩ͟t̷̻͔̙̑͟h̹̠̼͋ͤ͋i̤̜̣̦̱̫͈͔̞ͭ͑ͥ̌̔s̬͔͎̍̈ͥͫ̐̾ͣ̔̇͘ͅ ̩̘̼͆̐̕e̞̰͓̲̺̎͐̏ͬ̓̅̾͠͝ͅv̶̰͕̱̞̥̍ͣ̄̕e͕͙͖̬̜͓͎̤̊ͭ͐͝ṇ̰͎̱̤̟̭ͫ͌̌͢͠ͅ ̳̥̦ͮ̐ͤ̎̊ͣ͡͡n̤̜̙̺̪̒͜e̶̻̦̿ͮ̂̀c̝̘̝͖̠̖͐ͨͪ̈̐͌ͩ̀e̷̥͇̋ͦs̢̡̤ͤͤͯ͜s͈̠̉̑͘a̱͕̗͖̳̥̺ͬͦͧ͆̌̑͡r̶̟̖̈͘ỷ̮̦̩͙͔ͫ̾ͬ̔ͬͮ̌?̵̘͇͔͙ͥͪ͞ͅ

Offline Damerae

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Re: Seeking advice on a new mechanical keyboard
« Reply #17 on: Tue, 05 January 2016, 16:07:59 »
Costar stabilisers have little plastic things that you insert under the bigger keycaps before you install the keycaps.

Cherry stabilisers those bits are built into the keyboard (into the stabilisers which are mounted to the PCB - nothing extra to add).

Cherry is easier to swap keycaps, but Costar is more forgiving of minor irregularities in the stems on keycaps.

Many people say Cherry stabilisers feel mushy, although Ducky have been clipping their stabilisers, which is supposed to make them feel less mushy.  Other Cherry stsbilisers can be self-clipped, although you would void warranty on the keyboard.

Personally I would go for Costar stabilisers - with a couple of gotchas for the stabiliser inserts, they are otherwise much more forgiving of less than perfect keycaps.

Thank you for the clarification and elaboration. I'm glad to know I have the right understanding about the difference between Costar and Cherry stabilizers.  It seems as though I am finally getting the hang of the mechanical keyboard jargon  :).

Offline rowdy

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Re: Seeking advice on a new mechanical keyboard
« Reply #18 on: Tue, 05 January 2016, 22:39:46 »
Costar stabilisers have little plastic things that you insert under the bigger keycaps before you install the keycaps.

Cherry stabilisers those bits are built into the keyboard (into the stabilisers which are mounted to the PCB - nothing extra to add).

Cherry is easier to swap keycaps, but Costar is more forgiving of minor irregularities in the stems on keycaps.

Many people say Cherry stabilisers feel mushy, although Ducky have been clipping their stabilisers, which is supposed to make them feel less mushy.  Other Cherry stsbilisers can be self-clipped, although you would void warranty on the keyboard.

Personally I would go for Costar stabilisers - with a couple of gotchas for the stabiliser inserts, they are otherwise much more forgiving of less than perfect keycaps.

Thank you for the clarification and elaboration. I'm glad to know I have the right understanding about the difference between Costar and Cherry stabilizers.  It seems as though I am finally getting the hang of the mechanical keyboard jargon  :).

The first time through everything is the hardest - wondering whether you have made the correct decision.

But only the experience of typing on a variety of keyboards can really help you to choose your favourite.
"Because keyboards are accessories to PC makers, they focus on minimizing the manufacturing costs. But that’s incorrect. It’s in HHKB’s slogan, but when America’s cowboys were in the middle of a trip and their horse died, they would leave the horse there. But even if they were in the middle of a desert, they would take their saddle with them. The horse was a consumable good, but the saddle was an interface that their bodies had gotten used to. In the same vein, PCs are consumable goods, while keyboards are important interfaces." - Eiiti Wada

NEC APC-H4100E | Ducky DK9008 Shine MX blue LED red | Ducky DK9008 Shine MX blue LED green | Link 900243-08 | CM QFR MX black | KeyCool 87 white MX reds | HHKB 2 Pro | Model M 02-Mar-1993 | Model M 29-Nov-1995 | CM Trigger (broken) | CM QFS MX green | Ducky DK9087 Shine 3 TKL Yellow Edition MX black | Lexmark SSK 21-Apr-1994 | IBM SSK 13-Oct-1987 | CODE TKL MX clear | Model M 122 01-Jun-1988

Ị̸͚̯̲́ͤ̃͑̇̑ͯ̊̂͟ͅs̞͚̩͉̝̪̲͗͊ͪ̽̚̚ ̭̦͖͕̑́͌ͬͩ͟t̷̻͔̙̑͟h̹̠̼͋ͤ͋i̤̜̣̦̱̫͈͔̞ͭ͑ͥ̌̔s̬͔͎̍̈ͥͫ̐̾ͣ̔̇͘ͅ ̩̘̼͆̐̕e̞̰͓̲̺̎͐̏ͬ̓̅̾͠͝ͅv̶̰͕̱̞̥̍ͣ̄̕e͕͙͖̬̜͓͎̤̊ͭ͐͝ṇ̰͎̱̤̟̭ͫ͌̌͢͠ͅ ̳̥̦ͮ̐ͤ̎̊ͣ͡͡n̤̜̙̺̪̒͜e̶̻̦̿ͮ̂̀c̝̘̝͖̠̖͐ͨͪ̈̐͌ͩ̀e̷̥͇̋ͦs̢̡̤ͤͤͯ͜s͈̠̉̑͘a̱͕̗͖̳̥̺ͬͦͧ͆̌̑͡r̶̟̖̈͘ỷ̮̦̩͙͔ͫ̾ͬ̔ͬͮ̌?̵̘͇͔͙ͥͪ͞ͅ