Author Topic: Unicomp keyboards: Charms of their own?  (Read 34394 times)

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Offline Snowdog993

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Re: Unicomp keyboards: Charms of their own?
« Reply #50 on: Tue, 12 April 2016, 14:00:15 »
I think someone is insulted  :)) . Sorry mate, didn't mean to offend :) .

Too much Top Gear on your mind.

Offline klennkellon

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Re: Unicomp keyboards: Charms of their own?
« Reply #51 on: Tue, 12 April 2016, 15:33:44 »
I'm actually gonna pick up a Unicomp for my mom because the grey and black matches her PC's colors and she's picky about stuff like that.

Offline 1391406

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Re: Unicomp keyboards: Charms of their own?
« Reply #52 on: Tue, 12 April 2016, 16:44:38 »
Do various form factors have an effect on the overall feel, or are they mostly the same?

Mostly the same.
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Offline iLLucionist

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Re: Unicomp keyboards: Charms of their own?
« Reply #53 on: Tue, 12 April 2016, 17:18:20 »
Is there also a TKL / 87 Unicomp?
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Offline fohat.digs

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Re: Unicomp keyboards: Charms of their own?
« Reply #54 on: Tue, 12 April 2016, 17:29:55 »
Is there also a TKL / 87 Unicomp?

Yes, 11 days ago.
"However, even though I was born in the Mesozoic, I do know what anyone who wants to reach out to young people should say: Billionaires took your money. They took your chance to buy a home. They took your chance at a good education. They stole your opportunities. Billionaires took the things you want in life. If you really want those things, you have to take them back.
That's the message. That's the whole message. Say that every day, not just to reach America's frustrated young white men, but people of every age, race, and gender.
Late-stage capitalism is a wealth-concentration engine, focused on vacuuming up every dollar and putting it in as few hands as possible. Republicans are helping that vacuum suck.
How does a tiny fraction of the population get away with this? They do it by dividing the other 99% of Americans against themselves."
- Marc Sumner 2025-05-30

Offline iLLucionist

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Re: Unicomp keyboards: Charms of their own?
« Reply #55 on: Tue, 12 April 2016, 17:33:55 »
Is there also a TKL / 87 Unicomp?

Yes, 11 days ago.

Really? I cannot find it on unicomp website though.. Care to provide me a link / exact name?
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Offline fohat.digs

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Re: Unicomp keyboards: Charms of their own?
« Reply #56 on: Tue, 12 April 2016, 17:44:27 »

I cannot find it on unicomp website though


Gotcha!

April 1 is an informal holiday in the US.
"However, even though I was born in the Mesozoic, I do know what anyone who wants to reach out to young people should say: Billionaires took your money. They took your chance to buy a home. They took your chance at a good education. They stole your opportunities. Billionaires took the things you want in life. If you really want those things, you have to take them back.
That's the message. That's the whole message. Say that every day, not just to reach America's frustrated young white men, but people of every age, race, and gender.
Late-stage capitalism is a wealth-concentration engine, focused on vacuuming up every dollar and putting it in as few hands as possible. Republicans are helping that vacuum suck.
How does a tiny fraction of the population get away with this? They do it by dividing the other 99% of Americans against themselves."
- Marc Sumner 2025-05-30

Offline xtrafrood

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Re: Unicomp keyboards: Charms of their own?
« Reply #57 on: Tue, 12 April 2016, 18:11:28 »
Personally, I feel that Unicomp keyboards are perfect blank canvases for modern style paint jobs. No one is going to be scolded for painting a Unicomp case :D I have to admit that I am enticed by the extra keys on the PC122 USB version. Hello, macros.

I wonder if the cases do well with hydro dipping hmm
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Offline iLLucionist

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Re: Unicomp keyboards: Charms of their own?
« Reply #58 on: Tue, 12 April 2016, 18:12:43 »

I cannot find it on unicomp website though


Gotcha!

April 1 is an informal holiday in the US.

You made my hopes vanish! No 87 Unicomp!
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Offline Darkshado

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Re: Unicomp keyboards: Charms of their own?
« Reply #59 on: Tue, 12 April 2016, 20:32:39 »
I haven't tried buckling springs yet, but form-factor-wise; I'd be interested if they brought back the SSK, better yet, with a proper current gen. three button TrackPoint.

Offline ander

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Re: Unicomp keyboards: Charms of their own?
« Reply #60 on: Fri, 15 April 2016, 06:38:20 »
In my opinion, IBM vs. Unicomp is akin to Gibson vs. Epiphone. Given the choice, I don't know anyone who'd prefer an Epiphone Les Paul Standard over an original Gibson Les Paul Standard.

While I agree with you in regards to keyboards, not all Epiphones are bad, and not all Gibsons are good... :))

I never said Gibson is the be-all-end-all. The point was that Epiphone is Gibson's budget line of Les Paul's.

Gotta say, unless you're talking about one-off, handmade guitars from Gibson's Nashville Custom Shop (big bucks!), I think the whole Gibson/Epiphone thing these days is just marketing. People are willing to pay a lot more for a more prestigious name on a peghead, so people will see how much money they had to spend.

It reminds me of computer CPUs.

CPUs are so complex, companies like Intel never know exactly how each one will turn out. So they test each one by gradually increasing clock speeds till they fail, then rate them a few notches lower (and of course, price them accordingly).

Thing is, they need lots of budget-price CPUs too, and often there aren't enough that won't run at the higher speeds. So they routinely put lower ratings on CPUs that test much higher, so they can fill their product orders. See where I'm going with this?

What's more, if I played some rare Gibbie, I'd be afraid to take it out to jam and gig on it. I'd always worry someone was going to knock it over or spill something on it or steal it. But because the Epi's worth only a few hundred bucks and has no collector's value to speak of, I feel comfortable taking it all over the place. So in that way it's even better than a Gibson "Gibson".

Ha ha, well, some kinda topic drift here.


I always liked how IBM put gaps where the Windows keys should have been instead of putting a function key or something... It's kind of their way of sticking it to Microsoft, "We COULD have put a Windows key here but we didn't ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)

LOL. Nope, they weren't too fond of ol' Bill G. And it is funny what you can say by not saying something.

Back on topic. Has anyone used for a longer period of time various Unicomp models? Do various form factors have an effect on the overall feel, or are they mostly the same?

You mean the slimmed-down Ultra Classics vs. the full-size Classics? They've all felt the same to me as typing machines.

There's only difference I really notice between IBM and Unicomp boards: 1st-generation M's (1390131, 1390120) are like Rocks of Gibraltar. You type on them and nothing vibrates or moves besides the keys you're pressing. They're solid—much more solid than what followed, made by anybody. No Unicomp's ever going to feel like that.

So they clatter a bit more, and aren't as heavy or stiff when you pick them up. But isn't it amazing someone's still making boards with this technology, because they believe in it? I think so... And I like the idea of supporting them.

Stop wasting your time comparing them, I say. Just get one of each and enjoy them for what they are: IBM and "IBM Lite". Life's too short to spend time whining about something like that, IMHO.


As for layouts, I think their new layout is a big improvement over their old one.

You mean putting the Windows key next to the spacebar? Or the 103 thing? What else did they change?
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Offline iLLucionist

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Re: Unicomp keyboards: Charms of their own?
« Reply #61 on: Fri, 15 April 2016, 06:40:58 »
I wonder how many people buy a unicomp.
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Offline chyros

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Re: Unicomp keyboards: Charms of their own?
« Reply #62 on: Fri, 15 April 2016, 06:55:58 »
I wonder how many people buy a unicomp.
Unicomp have mentioned that they find it difficult to make them profitable. Obviously, because they can't ask anywhere near what they used to cost in the IBM days, and the market has shrunk immensely. Furthermore, they last forever, so their turnover is extremely poor. That said, I don't think they're teetering or anything.
Check my keyboard video reviews:


Offline iLLucionist

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Re: Unicomp keyboards: Charms of their own?
« Reply #63 on: Fri, 15 April 2016, 15:18:35 »
I wonder how many people buy a unicomp.
Unicomp have mentioned that they find it difficult to make them profitable. Obviously, because they can't ask anywhere near what they used to cost in the IBM days, and the market has shrunk immensely. Furthermore, they last forever, so their turnover is extremely poor. That said, I don't think they're teetering or anything.

Yeah I can imagine. Wondering whether only grumpy old man "8080 was the high, went downhill ever since. assembler is for men, the rest is for pussies" buy em or also the regular office clerk.
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Offline dante

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Re: Unicomp keyboards: Charms of their own?
« Reply #64 on: Fri, 15 April 2016, 15:32:45 »
I wonder how many people buy a unicomp.
Unicomp have mentioned that they find it difficult to make them profitable. Obviously, because they can't ask anywhere near what they used to cost in the IBM days, and the market has shrunk immensely. Furthermore, they last forever, so their turnover is extremely poor. That said, I don't think they're teetering or anything.

This speech pretty much sums it up:


Offline iLLucionist

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Re: Unicomp keyboards: Charms of their own?
« Reply #65 on: Fri, 15 April 2016, 16:55:16 »
I wonder how many people buy a unicomp.
Unicomp have mentioned that they find it difficult to make them profitable. Obviously, because they can't ask anywhere near what they used to cost in the IBM days, and the market has shrunk immensely. Furthermore, they last forever, so their turnover is extremely poor. That said, I don't think they're teetering or anything.

This speech pretty much sums it up:


Seems fairly adequate indeed.
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Offline Snowdog993

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Re: Unicomp keyboards: Charms of their own?
« Reply #66 on: Sat, 16 April 2016, 11:22:47 »
I wonder how many people buy a unicomp.

I bought one.  It's just fine.

Offline iLLucionist

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Re: Unicomp keyboards: Charms of their own?
« Reply #67 on: Sat, 16 April 2016, 12:48:24 »
I wonder how many people buy a unicomp.

I bought one.  It's just fine.
Show Image


Looks nice! Except for dat windows key.. but that's just me.
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Offline JimByr

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Re: Unicomp keyboards: Charms of their own?
« Reply #68 on: Sun, 17 April 2016, 08:14:20 »
I wonder how many people buy a unicomp.
I have a Spacesaver M and have no issues with it. It's a great keyboard and the quality is excellent.

Offline fohat.digs

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Re: Unicomp keyboards: Charms of their own?
« Reply #69 on: Wed, 08 June 2016, 18:43:11 »
For the first time in several years, I have a Unicomp. I bought a 2001-vintage 103 from    losing_crtl    and I am very pleased with it.

The quality is top-notch, the caps and legends are strong and clean, and the feel and sound is great. I have not used any of my older Ms in a few months, but I feel certain that this one compares quite favorably with them.

This recommendation may not translate to current batches - this one was made 15 years ago after all - but I am very pleasantly surprised.
"However, even though I was born in the Mesozoic, I do know what anyone who wants to reach out to young people should say: Billionaires took your money. They took your chance to buy a home. They took your chance at a good education. They stole your opportunities. Billionaires took the things you want in life. If you really want those things, you have to take them back.
That's the message. That's the whole message. Say that every day, not just to reach America's frustrated young white men, but people of every age, race, and gender.
Late-stage capitalism is a wealth-concentration engine, focused on vacuuming up every dollar and putting it in as few hands as possible. Republicans are helping that vacuum suck.
How does a tiny fraction of the population get away with this? They do it by dividing the other 99% of Americans against themselves."
- Marc Sumner 2025-05-30

Offline 1391406

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Re: Unicomp keyboards: Charms of their own?
« Reply #70 on: Wed, 08 June 2016, 21:56:54 »
In my opinion, IBM vs. Unicomp is akin to Gibson vs. Epiphone. Given the choice, I don't know anyone who'd prefer an Epiphone Les Paul Standard over an original Gibson Les Paul Standard.

While I agree with you in regards to keyboards, not all Epiphones are bad, and not all Gibsons are good... :))

I never said Gibson is the be-all-end-all. The point was that Epiphone is Gibson's budget line of Les Paul's.

Gotta say, unless you're talking about one-off, handmade guitars from Gibson's Nashville Custom Shop (big bucks!), I think the whole Gibson/Epiphone thing these days is just marketing. People are willing to pay a lot more for a more prestigious name on a peghead, so people will see how much money they had to spend.

It hardly applies solely to custom Gibsons. There are differences in wood type, electronics, and origin of manufacture between a Gibson Les Paul Standard and an Epiphone. Gibson's are made in the USA while Epiphones are made in Asia. Gibson's use higher quality woods and a solid maple top, whereas Epiphone's use a thinner top and frequently incorporate a veneer. The LP Standard uses Burstbucker pickups, and while historically, Epiphone's pickups haven't been bad, per se, they don't share the same sonic characteristics (depth and clarity) of Gibson's. The Standard is also a bit heavier than an Epiphone but then all Gibson's are heavy. Do they sound the same? No. Of course not. It's not that Epiphones sound bad. They don't... at all. They've definitely improved over the years, but at the end of the day they're not up to Gibson's standard in terms of definition, clarity and resonance. So no, the difference isn't just a name on a headstock.
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Offline spremino

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Re: Unicomp keyboards: Charms of their own?
« Reply #71 on: Sun, 12 June 2016, 23:49:03 »
Unicomp keyboards are great value: what other manufacturers offer mechanical keyboards with PBT key caps for $84?  I cringe whenever I see keyboards on sale for hundred of dollars/euros and they offer ABS key caps.

Compared to IBM Model M keyboards, Unicomp ones:
- have Windows keys (invaluable with some programs);
- are native USB (so you don't have to look for an adapter that works);
- offer more colour choices.

Unicomp keyboards may have some blemishes, but AFAIK they never impact usability or produce squeaky sounds.  Also, how much would a new IBM Model M cost today?  If it would cost much more than a Unicomp, than it is not fair to compare them on finish.

For me, Unicomp keyboards are just better overall.
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Offline 1391406

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Re: Unicomp keyboards: Charms of their own?
« Reply #72 on: Mon, 13 June 2016, 01:17:20 »
Unicomp keyboards are great value: what other manufacturers offer mechanical keyboards with PBT key caps for $84?  I cringe whenever I see keyboards on sale for hundred of dollars/euros and they offer ABS key caps.

Compared to IBM Model M keyboards, Unicomp ones:
- have Windows keys (invaluable with some programs);
- are native USB (so you don't have to look for an adapter that works);
- offer more colour choices.

Personally, I don't own any programs that require the Windows key, nor consider it invaluable to any programs I use. It's convenient for bringing up the Start menu, but that's about it in my case.

Adapter's are easy to find. In many cases it can be cheaper to purchase an IBM Model M and an adapter than to buy a new Unicomp.

And more color choices? Cases come in black and white.

Unicomp keyboards may have some blemishes, but AFAIK they never impact usability or produce squeaky sounds.

Of course it doesn't affect usability. Neither does the flashing around the key caps or the creaky case, but it demonstrates a lack of quality control. And yes, Unicomp cases creak.

Also, how much would a new IBM Model M cost today?  If it would cost much more than a Unicomp, than it is not fair to compare them on finish.

No one knows how much it would cost IBM today because they haven't manufactured them in well over two decades. Further, you can find original IBM manufactured Model M's for less than a new Unicomp and in some cases that's including the adapter.

For me, Unicomp keyboards are just better overall.

Better in what way?
Unicomp Classic | Chicony KB-5181 (Monterey Blues) | IBM Model M (1391401) | IBM XT Model F | IBM AT Model F | Dell AT101W | 122-key IBM Model F
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Offline klennkellon

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Re: Unicomp keyboards: Charms of their own?
« Reply #73 on: Mon, 13 June 2016, 02:30:28 »
I would not say that the Unicomps are "better" overall. They do have native USB support and a slightly updated layout, but otherwise they are inferior to a true Model M. That being said they are still solid boards and I would not hesitate to buy one.

Offline spremino

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Re: Unicomp keyboards: Charms of their own?
« Reply #74 on: Mon, 13 June 2016, 07:32:55 »
Unicomp keyboards are great value: what other manufacturers offer mechanical keyboards with PBT key caps for $84?  I cringe whenever I see keyboards on sale for hundred of dollars/euros and they offer ABS key caps.

Compared to IBM Model M keyboards, Unicomp ones:
- have Windows keys (invaluable with some programs);
- are native USB (so you don't have to look for an adapter that works);
- offer more colour choices.

Personally, I don't own any programs that require the Windows key, nor consider it invaluable to any programs I use. It's convenient for bringing up the Start menu, but that's about it in my case.

You have never used GNU Emacs, and it shows ;)

Adapter's are easy to find.

But they don't always work.  That has been my experience, at least.

In many cases it can be cheaper to purchase an IBM Model M and an adapter than to buy a new Unicomp.

You aren't talking about NOS IBM Model Ms, are you?  Used keyboard are hit and miss.

And more color choices? Cases come in black and white.

And gray.  And thanks to Unicomp, we can have blank keys.

Unicomp keyboards may have some blemishes, but AFAIK they never impact usability or produce squeaky sounds.

Of course it doesn't affect usability. Neither does the flashing around the key caps or the creaky case, but it demonstrates a lack of quality control. And yes, Unicomp cases creak.

I am sure that if Unicomp could sell refined keyboards for what they are worth, I am sure that quality control would "mysteriously" disappear.  Again, Unicomp sells keyboards with PBT keycaps for 84$.  Can you name another manufacturer that does the same?

Also, how much would a new IBM Model M cost today?  If it would cost much more than a Unicomp, than it is not fair to compare them on finish.

No one knows how much it would cost IBM today because they haven't manufactured them in well over two decades. Further, you can find original IBM manufactured Model M's for less than a new Unicomp and in some cases that's including the adapter.

Please let's compare apples to apples and oranges to oranges.  Unless you are talking about new IBM Model Ms, your point is moot, don't you agree?

For me, Unicomp keyboards are just better overall.

Better in what way?


Please read above. Long live Unicomp! ;)
A long space bar... what a waste of space!

Offline davkol

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Re: Unicomp keyboards: Charms of their own?
« Reply #75 on: Mon, 13 June 2016, 07:51:20 »
Again, Unicomp sells keyboards with PBT keycaps for 84$.  Can you name another manufacturer that does the same?
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Offline 1391406

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Re: Unicomp keyboards: Charms of their own?
« Reply #76 on: Mon, 13 June 2016, 12:02:15 »
Unicomp keyboards are great value: what other manufacturers offer mechanical keyboards with PBT key caps for $84?  I cringe whenever I see keyboards on sale for hundred of dollars/euros and they offer ABS key caps.

Compared to IBM Model M keyboards, Unicomp ones:
- have Windows keys (invaluable with some programs);
- are native USB (so you don't have to look for an adapter that works);
- offer more colour choices.

Personally, I don't own any programs that require a Windows key, nor consider it invaluable to any programs I use. It's convenient for bringing up the Start menu, but that's about it in my case.

You have never used GNU Emacs

Most people don't use it.

Adapter's are easy to find.

But they don't always work.  That has been my experience, at least.

They generally work fine as long as you buy an active converter rather than a passive adapter. The Blue Cube variety has been recommended for years and works for most people.

In many cases it can be cheaper to purchase an IBM Model M and an adapter than to buy a new Unicomp.

You aren't talking about NOS IBM Model Ms, are you?  Used keyboard are hit and miss.

No, I'm talking about used Model M's. And they generally work great unless they're specifically advertised as non-functioning. Obviously there are cases where someone has purchased a non-working used Model M, but it's fairly rare, in my experience.

And more color choices? Cases come in black and white.

And gray.

Can you post a picture of the gray unicomp? IBM made industrial Model M's, which were gray.

And thanks to Unicomp, we can have blank keys.

That's great and all but doesn't make up for the shortcomings of their keyboards, in my opinion. Further, that has nothing to do with the quality of their keyboards.

Unicomp keyboards may have some blemishes, but AFAIK they never impact usability or produce squeaky sounds.

Of course it doesn't affect usability. Neither does the flashing around the key caps or the creaky case, but it demonstrates a lack of quality control. And yes, Unicomp cases creak.

I am sure that if Unicomp could sell refined keyboards for what they are worth, I am sure that quality control would "mysteriously" disappear.  Again, Unicomp sells keyboards with PBT keycaps for 84$.  Can you name another manufacturer that does the same?

You're assuming Unicomp can't sell their keyboards for more than $84. Lots of mechanical keyboard manufacturers do just that every day. Consider how much Topre is charging. Maybe if Unicomp cleaned up their act and started aggressively marketing their product(which includes revamping their website), they might find they could sell their boards for a lot more than $84. It's not uncommon to routinely find mechanical keyboards selling in the $115 range on the low end. Unicomp has excellent customer service, but in my opinion they're selling themselves short and sitting on their hands. Nothing against Unicomp but let's be honest here. Their website (and pictures) look like they were created by an amateur. They'd do well to hire a professional web designer / photographer, as well as a PR manager, fix the quality control issues, and raise their prices.

Also, how much would a new IBM Model M cost today?  If it would cost much more than a Unicomp, than it is not fair to compare them on finish.

No one knows how much it would cost IBM today because they haven't manufactured them in well over two decades. Further, you can find original IBM manufactured Model M's for less than a new Unicomp and in some cases that's including the adapter.

Please let's compare apples to apples and oranges to oranges.  Unless you are talking about new IBM Model Ms, your point is moot, don't you agree?

It's irrelevant. They don't make new IBM Model M's anymore, so the question is moot. Used IBM manufactured Model M's generally clean up great and don't have the quality control issues that are inherent in Unicomp's, so the question is why pay $84 for a substandard Model M variant when you can buy a higher quality variant for the same (or less) price?

For me, Unicomp keyboards are just better overall.

Better in what way?

Please read above. Long live Unicomp! ;)

You didn't explain why a new Unicomp is superior to a used IBM Model M. They both have PBT key caps, after all. The primary difference is that used IBM Model M's don't have the quality control issues that Unicomp's are currently known for, thus how you came to the conclusion that Unicomp's are better overall is beyond me.
« Last Edit: Mon, 13 June 2016, 12:05:38 by 1391406 »
Unicomp Classic | Chicony KB-5181 (Monterey Blues) | IBM Model M (1391401) | IBM XT Model F | IBM AT Model F | Dell AT101W | 122-key IBM Model F
IBM Model M13 | Apple Extended Keyboard | Apple Extended Keyboard II | MTEK K104 | NTC KB-6251/2 | Realforce 87U | Realforce 104U | Type Heaven

Offline spremino

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Re: Unicomp keyboards: Charms of their own?
« Reply #77 on: Mon, 13 June 2016, 14:18:22 »
Unicomp offers cream and black cases; and cream, white and grey key caps.

I just think that it is not fair to compare an used item to a new one.

Maybe, in the USA, used IBM Model Ms are easy to find and cheap, but here in Europe they command high prices. I have seen them on sale for 80€ (90.33$) plus shipping, therefore making a Unicomp a much better proposition.
A long space bar... what a waste of space!

Offline 1391406

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Re: Unicomp keyboards: Charms of their own?
« Reply #78 on: Mon, 13 June 2016, 15:00:27 »
I just think that it is not fair to compare an used item to a new one.

The fact one is new and the other isn't is fairly irrelevant, in my opinion. For example, if you compare a brand new IBM Model M (1391401) with a used one, the primary difference will likely be key feel; the older Model M will likely feel a bit more mushy due to spring wear and possibly some broken rivets. And new or not, Unicomp is advertising their keyboards as 'original' Model M's which leaves the impression that they meet IBM's standards, in my opinion. Thus, other than key feel due to spring wear and broken rivets, there shouldn't be any real qualitative differences between the two, in my opinion.

Maybe, in the USA, used IBM Model Ms are easy to find and cheap, but here in Europe they command high prices. I have seen them on sale for 80€ (90.33$) plus shipping, therefore making a Unicomp a much better proposition.

If you're in the market for a Model M and it's too cost prohibitive to obtain one due to location, then the Unicomp makes a good substitute. The typing feel is basically the same, though the metallic ringing / pinging after each key press is practically non-existent with Unicomp's.

My position is simply that if you have a choice, I'd almost always recommend the IBM variant.

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Offline davkol

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Re: Unicomp keyboards: Charms of their own?
« Reply #79 on: Mon, 13 June 2016, 15:08:14 »
The difference is that a new keyboard can be plugged in and used, whereas an used one may contain someone else's surprises, thus needs thorough cleaning, which requires some time and effort, and a very specific type of screwdriver. Prices of refurbished Model Ms from trustworthy sources are usually significantly higher.

Offline 1391406

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Re: Unicomp keyboards: Charms of their own?
« Reply #80 on: Mon, 13 June 2016, 15:56:52 »
The difference is that a new keyboard can be plugged in and used, whereas an used one may contain someone else's surprises, thus needs thorough cleaning, which requires some time and effort, and a very specific type of screwdriver. Prices of refurbished Model Ms from trustworthy sources are usually significantly higher.

Well, if I had to choose between buying and cleaning up a vintage 1957 Les Paul Standard for the same price that I'd pay for a brand new 2016 Les Paul Standard, I'd take the former any day. The difference in quality is worth it.
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Offline davkol

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Re: Unicomp keyboards: Charms of their own?
« Reply #81 on: Mon, 13 June 2016, 16:17:39 »
That difference has to be quantified to be "worth" something.

Time, materials and tools necessary to restore an old keyboard are quantifiable.
Longevity of new unicomps compared to restored ibms is unknown to my knowledge… and those unicomps can be restored just like ibms.
User efficiency with extra/missing keys can quantified to a certain extent in individual cases.

But the rest is a matter of feeling good.

Not even the environmentalist argument significantly applies here, because Unicomp's tooling can be used to produce only a limited quantity of new keyboards, but of course it's probably better to restore old keyboards than throw them away.
« Last Edit: Mon, 13 June 2016, 16:19:44 by davkol »

Offline xtrafrood

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Re: Unicomp keyboards: Charms of their own?
« Reply #82 on: Mon, 13 June 2016, 16:41:52 »
Has anyone noticed a difference between the original keycaps and Unicomp's keycaps?
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Offline davkol

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Re: Unicomp keyboards: Charms of their own?
« Reply #83 on: Mon, 13 June 2016, 16:51:50 »
In terms of fonts? Absolutely.

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Re: Unicomp keyboards: Charms of their own?
« Reply #84 on: Mon, 13 June 2016, 16:52:16 »
That difference has to be quantified to be "worth" something.

Time, materials and tools necessary to restore an old keyboard are quantifiable.

In my opinion, the time and tools necessary to restore a typical IBM Model M is fairly negligible in many cases. Though pictures don't tell the whole story, it's within the buyers control to avoid keyboards that appear to potentially require extra work in the form of supplying missing keycaps and exposed springs(potential spring damage). I've never spent more than two hours opening up and cleaning any one of my Model M's, but then none of them looked to be in dire shape prior to purchasing them. As for tools, there are certainly ways to open a vintage M without purchasing a 7/32″ nut driver, and I've never purchased an M that required a bolt mod.

The typical IBM Model M, by my standard, is one which potentially may need some deep cleaning, does not require a bolt mod, and may require one or more missing keys. Considering the original cost of the IBM variants, two hours worth of non-critical restoration is well-worth the going rate when compared on a qualitative level to a new Unicomp. Again, I'd prefer to spend a few hours restoring a classic Les Paul at the same price it would cost me to buy a new one by far.
« Last Edit: Mon, 13 June 2016, 16:53:58 by 1391406 »
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Offline xtrafrood

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Re: Unicomp keyboards: Charms of their own?
« Reply #85 on: Mon, 13 June 2016, 16:55:50 »
In terms of fonts? Absolutely.

Well, I meant durability and feeling; but I guess fonts would be relative as well.
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Offline davkol

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Re: Unicomp keyboards: Charms of their own?
« Reply #86 on: Mon, 13 June 2016, 17:10:24 »
Considering the original cost of the IBM variants, two hours worth of non-critical restoration is well-worth the going rate when compared on a qualitative level to a new Unicomp.
I'm repeating myself, but again: that's horse****.

IBM Model M doesn't type better than an unicomp. I have yet to see a proof that old ibm membrane/rivets/… last significantly longer than unicomp's.

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Re: Unicomp keyboards: Charms of their own?
« Reply #87 on: Mon, 13 June 2016, 17:47:58 »
Considering the original cost of the IBM variants, two hours worth of non-critical restoration is well-worth the going rate when compared on a qualitative level to a new Unicomp.
I'm repeating myself, but again: that's horse****.

IBM Model M doesn't type better than an unicomp. I have yet to see a proof that old ibm membrane/rivets/… last significantly longer than unicomp's.

Where did I imply that the qualitative differences I've consistently referred to relate to longevity? When I talk about the qualitative differences, I'm referring to several attributes mentioned in this and numerous other threads extraneous to longevity.
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Offline 1391406

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Re: Unicomp keyboards: Charms of their own?
« Reply #88 on: Mon, 13 June 2016, 17:59:40 »
In terms of fonts? Absolutely.

Well, I meant durability and feeling; but I guess fonts would be relative as well.

There doesn't seem to be any difference in either regard, though there tends to be flashing around the bottom edge of some of Unicomp's caps.

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Offline xtrafrood

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Re: Unicomp keyboards: Charms of their own?
« Reply #89 on: Mon, 13 June 2016, 18:47:51 »
In terms of fonts? Absolutely.

Well, I meant durability and feeling; but I guess fonts would be relative as well.

There doesn't seem to be any difference in either regard, though there tends to be flashing around the bottom edge of some of Unicomp's caps.

Cool, it seems like every other Model F is missing a few caps and Unicomp has some keysets for a decent price. Thanks for that
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Re: Unicomp keyboards: Charms of their own?
« Reply #90 on: Mon, 13 June 2016, 19:10:20 »

it seems like every other Model F is missing a few caps and Unicomp has some


I love Unicomp and I am very glad that they exist, but my one huge complaint is that their legends are not always located and printed very carefully.

I have bought a couple of sets where the legends seemed to wander all over the place. It is pretty bad when the majority of the legend is no longer located in the upper left quadrant of the surface of the caps on 10%-20% of them ....
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Offline 1391406

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Re: Unicomp keyboards: Charms of their own?
« Reply #91 on: Mon, 13 June 2016, 19:44:18 »
In terms of fonts? Absolutely.

Well, I meant durability and feeling; but I guess fonts would be relative as well.

There doesn't seem to be any difference in either regard, though there tends to be flashing around the bottom edge of some of Unicomp's caps.

Cool, it seems like every other Model F is missing a few caps and Unicomp has some keysets for a decent price. Thanks for that

I have a couple of Unicomp sets, and it's worth noting that while the color is close to the original, it's not indistinguishable(ie. not an exact match). Just something to keep in mind if you ever plan to replace missing caps on an original M or F.
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Re: Unicomp keyboards: Charms of their own?
« Reply #92 on: Mon, 13 June 2016, 19:51:55 »
In terms of fonts? Absolutely.

Well, I meant durability and feeling; but I guess fonts would be relative as well.

There doesn't seem to be any difference in either regard, though there tends to be flashing around the bottom edge of some of Unicomp's caps.

Cool, it seems like every other Model F is missing a few caps and Unicomp has some keysets for a decent price. Thanks for that

I have a couple of Unicomp sets, and it's worth noting that while the color is close to the original, it's not indistinguishable(ie. not an exact match). Just something to keep in mind if you ever plan to replace missing caps on an original M or F.

I kind had that in my back of my mind, maybe I would have to replace the whole set because of some difference in color. I'd imagine it would be pretty difficult to match the colors to a keyset that has been around for 20+ years. 
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Offline spremino

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Re: Unicomp keyboards: Charms of their own?
« Reply #93 on: Tue, 14 June 2016, 01:30:46 »
I just think that it is not fair to compare an used item to a new one.

The fact one is new and the other isn't is fairly irrelevant, in my opinion.

But I was criticizing the price comparison.  It is not fair to compare the price of an used item with that of a new one, is it?

For example, if you compare a brand new IBM Model M (1391401) with a used one, the primary difference will likely be key feel; the older Model M will likely feel a bit more mushy due to spring wear and possibly some broken rivets.

Exactly.  The thing that I liked the most, when I got my Unicomp, was the crispness of its keys.

And new or not, Unicomp is advertising their keyboards as 'original' Model M's which leaves the impression that they meet IBM's standards, in my opinion.

But then, AFAIK, IBM itself lowered the quality of each subsequent version of the Model M.  I don't know about Lexmark.  Unicomp is manufacturing its keyboards with the machinery that they bought from IBM, and that is as close to the original as you can get.

My position is simply that if you have a choice, I'd almost always recommend the IBM variant.

If I didn't need the Windows keys and I could get either a NOS/lightly used IBM or a Unicomp, then I would go for the IBM as well, because I agree that their finish is better and that they look more refined.  But NOS/lightly used IBMs are rare, hence the charm of new Unicomps.
« Last Edit: Tue, 14 June 2016, 01:36:14 by spremino »
A long space bar... what a waste of space!

Offline 1391406

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Re: Unicomp keyboards: Charms of their own?
« Reply #94 on: Tue, 14 June 2016, 10:37:51 »
I just think that it is not fair to compare an used item to a new one.

The fact one is new and the other isn't is fairly irrelevant, in my opinion.

But I was criticizing the price comparison.  It is not fair to compare the price of an used item with that of a new one, is it?

People compare prices on new vs. used products all the time. There's nothing uncommon about it. No one asks whether it's fair to compare prices because it's not a question of fairness. It's a question of which one represents a better deal. A lot of people simply want to maximize their money. Not to overuse a guitar analogy, but no one would ask whether it's fair to compare the price of an original 1957 Les Paul Standard to a brand new 1957 Les Paul Standard Re-issue assuming they both cost the same as the new Les Paul. It's irrelevant.

But then, AFAIK, IBM itself lowered the quality of each subsequent version of the Model M.

There was a gradual shift in relation to different switch types among various models. The IBM Model F, for example, is widely touted as having a superior key feel to the Model M, and IBM's Beam Spring keyboards are widely touted as feeling superior to the Model F. While many believe the switch technology changed for the worse, I'd maintain that IBM's quality control was consistent throughout their keyboard product line.

Unicomp is manufacturing its keyboards with the machinery that they bought from IBM, and that is as close to the original as you can get.

Yes, the tooling is the same, however the clamshell cover material isn't. Neil Muyskens (Unicomp founder) stated that the clamshell cover material was changed back in 1999, thus I suspect the cosmetic imperfections, audible creaking, and case flex are due to that.

My position is simply that if you have a choice, I'd almost always recommend the IBM variant.

If I didn't need the Windows keys and I could get either a NOS/lightly used IBM or a Unicomp, then I would go for the IBM as well, because I agree that their finish is better and that they look more refined.

While the Unicomp form factor is exactly the same, I think what I appreciate most about the older (IBM) Model M's is the super solid feel of the case and overall attention to detail / quality control. All the way around, the original IBM Model M (eg. 1391401) is a paradigm of excellence, in my opinion. Even used IBM Model M's frequently clean up so well as to look practically new. And while I like a crisp click, I personally find new Model M springs more fatiguing, thus I'm a bit partial to the somewhat lighter feel of a used M, though I'd by no means turn down the opportunity to own a new one. That said, I much prefer the key feel of the Model F over the Model M any day.
« Last Edit: Tue, 14 June 2016, 10:40:30 by 1391406 »
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Offline supamesican

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Re: Unicomp keyboards: Charms of their own?
« Reply #95 on: Tue, 14 June 2016, 11:45:20 »
I like unicomp, second best board I've ever used, model f being the first best. If they would just get the knro membrane from the korean company I'd be so happy, as it stands I'm going to have to learn the foil method to get nkro on the new one I plan to get to test on.  i'd like to be able to get the classic ibm but I use the windows key a lot, I know it was made before windows but i'm still disappointed ibm/lexmark didnt put a windows key on the later revisions. Oh well hopefully I can get the foil method working in a few months when i have the money to play around with it. My model f is the best board I've used but my backup pc deserves buckling springs too.

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Re: Unicomp keyboards: Charms of their own?
« Reply #96 on: Tue, 14 June 2016, 13:53:50 »
Too bad IBM Model M's don't have a barrel under the case material that separates the CTRL and ALT keys.
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Offline spremino

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Re: Unicomp keyboards: Charms of their own?
« Reply #97 on: Tue, 14 June 2016, 16:18:39 »
Even used IBM Model M's frequently clean up so well as to look practically new. And while I like a crisp click, [...]

Do you think that changing the springs with new ones would restore the crispiness?
A long space bar... what a waste of space!

Offline fohat.digs

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Re: Unicomp keyboards: Charms of their own?
« Reply #98 on: Tue, 14 June 2016, 17:18:49 »
Do you think that changing the springs with new ones would restore the crispiness?

I bought a couple of hardly-used M-122s a while back and I have swapped out those spring hammers when I have done bolt mods, not all of them but certainly the heavily-used keys such as Enter, spacebar, arrows, etc.

When I do a bolt-mod, I pull out a dozen or so springs that I suspect have gotten the most use, and cull them, and also the dozen or so that I figure have seen very little use, and then I re-populate those important locations with what I assume are the better springs.
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That's the message. That's the whole message. Say that every day, not just to reach America's frustrated young white men, but people of every age, race, and gender.
Late-stage capitalism is a wealth-concentration engine, focused on vacuuming up every dollar and putting it in as few hands as possible. Republicans are helping that vacuum suck.
How does a tiny fraction of the population get away with this? They do it by dividing the other 99% of Americans against themselves."
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Offline 1391406

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Re: Unicomp keyboards: Charms of their own?
« Reply #99 on: Tue, 14 June 2016, 17:58:07 »
Even used IBM Model M's frequently clean up so well as to look practically new. And while I like a crisp click, [...]

Do you think that changing the springs with new ones would restore the crispiness?

Assuming there are no (or very few) broken rivets, I believe so, yes.
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