Purchased both the Kul ES-87 (R) and Filco MJ-2 (R) - Not sure which one to keep

[Damerae]

Hello,

I'm not sure which keyboard I like more, and am hoping to receive a little more advice.

I tried the KUl ES-87 (Red Switches) keyboard first out of the two (I'm using the KUL to type up this post).  I really like the design, feel and overall look of the keyboard.  It feels very solid and well built.  I haven't noticed any 'ping' like other owners of the keyboard have.  If I really dig deep and press the keys hard, I [think] I can hear some sort of 'ping', but I think that's just the key hitting the backplate, which I hear is completely normal.  Surprisingly, the keyboard is definitely more quiet compared to my Brown MX Daskeyboard, so that's definitely a plus.  The Cherry MX switches definitely feel 'mushy'.  It's not bothersome to me, though.  I actually like how they are more silent compared to the Costar Stabilizers on my Daskeyboard.  I do miss the 'clack' of the Costar Stabilizers, however I think I'd be just fine with the Cherry stabilizers, but am concerned I'd eventually get annoyed of the 'mushy' feeling. 

On a somewhat related tangent, when I plug the KUL into the PS/2 port, I notice that my mouse acts weird - it feels laggy or glitchy.  I'm currently in the process of looking into as why this may be happening but any additional input would be appreciated.  At this very moment, it seems the mouse is working just fine.  It could act up at any time.  In addition - while rare - sometimes more than one vowel or consonant will be typed - almost like the keyboard has a latency and gets stuck, so several commands go through at once even though I pressed the key once.   

Onto the Filco MJ-2 (Red switches).  Aside from the Red switches, it feels very similar to my Brown switch Daskeyboard.  The Daskeyboard has Costar stabilizers in it, so the Filco MJ-2 feels pretty natural to me.  That being said, I feel the Filco is louder compared to the KUL.  It could be my total lack of knowledge when it comes to Mechanical Keyboards, but I feel as though the KUL is a little more silent and more 'solid' compared to the almost 'hollow' feeling of the Filco.  I can't quite put my words together in a way that explains how I feel about each board.  The Filco still feels very comfortable to type on.  Don't get me wrong, the keyboard is definitely well built and sturdy, but I feel as though something is missing?  The 'ping' is more noticeable on the Filco.  I'm not sure if this corresponds to the 'empty' feel of the board or if it's due to something else. 

In addition, when I plug the Filco into the PS/2 port, the mouse works just fine; I don't experience the same issues I have with the KUL.   

It's hard to make a decision on either one.  They each have their perks.  I'm currently leaning towards the KUL despite the worry of the Cherry stabilizers growing old on me or the weird mouse issues.  The Filco has it perks too though: no weird issues with mouse (yet), the nice 'clack' and quick response of the Costar Stabilizers... I just can't get over how the board sounds and feels compared to the KUL. 

I've read most of the reviews between the two boards that I could find on Google, and it seems as though the KUL wins out.  There are a few reviews that advocate for the Filco but they are far fewer. 

Lastly, I plan on purchasing a set of PBT keycaps, so that could make things feel different on the Filco or KUL depending on which one I decide to keep.

Looking forward to reading your responses

Thank you

[bocahgundul]

Thats the issue with costar stab they are rattly
You should keep the kul bro 

[Damerae]

Thats the issue with costar stab they are rattly
You should keep the kul bro 

Ya.. I noticed that.  I do like the nice 'clack' and quick response of the Costar, though.  I don't think it's enough to change my mind from the KUL.  I will have to play around some more, but I think I will end up keeping the KUL.

[isaske]

Switching keycaps on a costar stabs keyboard can be a pain, I can tell from my own experience.

I love my filcos tho. The only board that beats the filco from what I've tried is the Leopold FC700R/FC750R.

I haven't tried a KUL yet, so I can't really tell.

Go with your instinct I would say. You have both boards, it's on you to decide.

[Flyersfan1]

There's something about Filcos that just make them so comfortable to use, definitely my favorite stock mx keyboard.  My vote goes to Filco.

[derb2k2]

i was wondering if you're a heavy CTRL/shortcut user because if i'm not mistaken, the FILCO lacks the option to switch CAPSLOCK with CTRL so this would definitely sway me to the KUL. For me having CTRL next to my pinky is essential when working from the command line and VIM.

[rowdy]

You can always try clipping the Cherry stabilisers, but that would void your warranty.

It might be worth getting the PBT keycaps as they can significantly change the feel and sound of the keyboard.

Also PS/2 is not a plug and play port - you should turn the PC off, swap PS/2 devices, then turn it back on.  If you tried hotplugging PS/2 maybe that contributed to the mouse weirdness.

[jaffers]

Go with the KUL I reckon. Such a classy keyboard, aesthetically I think it looks great and its a solid stock keyboard too. Just make sure to get some after market caps on there. And if you ever wanted to change the way it feels you can always desolder and resolder new switches in there 

[axtran]

I vote KUL--I had one for a while and loved it. A lot more features than the Filco, and the Cherry stabilizers will provide much better support for aftermarket keycaps than the Costar stabilizers will.

[Vittra]

Your post already suggests you prefer the KUL. Still, get the set of PBT keycaps and try them out on both boards, I greatly prefer the KBC PBT keycaps I've used on my Filco the past 4 years. Small sidenote - no shine either, was amazed when I inspected them after a cleaning recently.

Filcos will always be the reliable "out of box" workhorse, but from what I can tell they are surpassed by recent options that have modernized on a solid foundation - KUL is actually a good example of this. The only thing about the KUL I dislike is the LEDs housed in switches (caps/numlock/scroll).

[MeltingTeeth]

Hope you didn't buy two keyboards to try with the plan of returning one.

That would be questionable business ethics.

[Vittra]

If I recall correctly, the OP mentions buying both from Amazon to return one in another thread. Provided he/she is honest when returning to Amazon (they ask for a reason and typed explanation), I can't fault them, even if it's something I wouldn't do myself. Amazon will charge fees if they deem it applicable. I see a bigger problem in the computer tech enthusiast sphere where people break components either through physical damage or overvolting  and then try to RMA them...

[demik]

Return both. Now you can afford an hhkb. Live happy.

[ileben]

Thats the issue with costar stab they are rattly
You should keep the kul bro 

That's just spreading misinformation.

The OP didn't say the stabilizers on their Filco were rattly. Also, from my experience with two Filcos, none of them had rattly stabilizers. In fact, the costar stabs in my keyboards are much quieter than any cherry stabilizer I've seen in another keyboard. Either way, if costar stabs ever rattle, fixing them with lube is much easier than cherry stabs, because no desoldering is required.

As for the "hollow/louder" feeling - I do concur with that. The Filcos I have do feel (ever so slightly) like there's more void in there, compared to some other brands I've tried, and I think that's what makes every bottom out of a key a little louder as there's more echo within the case. I'm not sure if it's down to the specific material of the plate, or the construction of the case.

For me, personally, the snappiness of costar stabs far outweighs the slight hollow feeling, and there's not much choice when it comes to keyboards with costar out-of-the-box, so Filco remains my recommendation.

[Damerae]

i was wondering if you're a heavy CTRL/shortcut user because if i'm not mistaken, the FILCO lacks the option to switch CAPSLOCK with CTRL so this would definitely sway me to the KUL. For me having CTRL next to my pinky is essential when working from the command line and VIM.

I do not do any coding at all, so I am not a heavy CTRL/shortcut user.

You can always try clipping the Cherry stabilisers, but that would void your warranty.

It might be worth getting the PBT keycaps as they can significantly change the feel and sound of the keyboard.

Also PS/2 is not a plug and play port - you should turn the PC off, swap PS/2 devices, then turn it back on.  If you tried hotplugging PS/2 maybe that contributed to the mouse weirdness.

I plan to purchase the PBT keycaps.  I haven't done so yet, because I want to pick a keyboard out first.  I'm starting to think I should just go ahead and purchase them though... It may help make my decision easier.

I went ahead and turned the PC off and then swapped the devices.  The mouse seems to be working a little better, but I will have to continue to play around with it to see if the issues are for sure gone.

I vote KUL--I had one for a while and loved it. A lot more features than the Filco, and the Cherry stabilizers will provide much better support for aftermarket keycaps than the Costar stabilizers will.

Go with the KUL I reckon. Such a classy keyboard, aesthetically I think it looks great and its a solid stock keyboard too. Just make sure to get some after market caps on there. And if you ever wanted to change the way it feels you can always desolder and resolder new switches in there 

Filcos will always be the reliable "out of box" workhorse, but from what I can tell they are surpassed by recent options that have modernized on a solid foundation - KUL is actually a good example of this. The only thing about the KUL I dislike is the LEDs housed in switches (caps/numlock/scroll).

I am typing this post up with the Filco, and it's actually beginning to grow on me.  The keyboard feels much better this time around.  I have a feeling with PBT keycaps, the keyboard could feel very solid.  I'm getting closer to a decision, but it's so tough... both keyboards are great.  I'd have to say the Filco is more to my liking now than the KUL.

Hope you didn't buy two keyboards to try with the plan of returning one.

That would be questionable business ethics.

That's my plan.  I will provide an honest reason as to why I'm returning one of the keyboards. 

If I recall correctly, the OP mentions buying both from Amazon to return one in another thread. Provided he/she is honest when returning to Amazon (they ask for a reason and typed explanation), I can't fault them, even if it's something I wouldn't do myself. Amazon will charge fees if they deem it applicable. I see a bigger problem in the computer tech enthusiast sphere where people break components either through physical damage or overvolting  and then try to RMA them...

I agree and thank you for the support despite it not being something you would do.

Return both. Now you can afford an hhkb. Live happy.

The HHKB will be the next keyboard I buy.  It'll be 6 months to a year before I purchase it, though.

[Damerae]

That's just spreading misinformation.

The OP didn't say the stabilizers on their Filco were rattly. Also, from my experience with two Filcos, none of them had rattly stabilizers. In fact, the costar stabs in my keyboards are much quieter than any cherry stabilizer I've seen in another keyboard. Either way, if costar stabs ever rattle, fixing them with lube is much easier than cherry stabs, because no desoldering is required.

As for the "hollow/louder" feeling - I do concur with that. The Filcos I have do feel (ever so slightly) like there's more void in there, compared to some other brands I've tried, and I think that's what makes every bottom out of a key a little louder as there's more echo within the case. I'm not sure if it's down to the specific material of the plate, or the construction of the case.

For me, personally, the snappiness of costar stabs far outweighs the slight hollow feeling, and there's not much choice when it comes to keyboards with costar out-of-the-box, so Filco remains my recommendation.

Well said.  I am right there with you.  After using the Filco for a while now, I am beginning to like it more than the KUL.  It's a very solid keyboard, and I can only imagine what it will feel like with PBT keycaps.  I still have some playing around to do.  It's so tough deciding which board.  There truly is something special about the Filco though.

[jamster]

Surely this is splitting hairs past any point that it might make sense.

Two well built Cherry Red boards with heavy steel plates. They are very similar. If one seems to be causing computer hassles, return that one. Use the other one and enjoy it.

[merlin64]

I would go with the Filco, you can always buy a phantom pcb and plate from mechanicalkeyboards.com to spruce it up a bit. The phantom PCBs were made for the Filco MJ2

[Vittra]

I think that if you are willing to buy a phantom pcb & plate, you might as well go all the way and get one of the incoming Tex cases from MechanicalKeyboards.com along with switches and a controller to build your own keyboard from scratch. You'd have to desolder the switches from the Filco PCB to reuse them on the Phantom PCB, which isn't particularly appealing.

For the Filco, at this point, it's probably easier to just buy a new controller if you want to do key remapping:

http://bathroomepiphanies.com/controllers/

Since the KUL has dip switches to move around commonly swapped keys, it wins in out of the box versatility.

[Damerae]

Thank you again for all of the advice.  I decided to keep the KUL ES-87.  While I do enjoy the snappiness of the Costar, the Cherry stabs were fine with me.  In addition, I don't want to go through the hassle of putting new key caps on the Costar stabs.  The Filco was ~$70 more than the KUL, and I had a hard time justifying the cost of it when both keyboards feel very similar. 

That being said, I decided to save that $70 and put it towards a HHKB PRO-2 Type-S  .  I think I am officially settled with a selection of keyboards now: Daskeyboard Brown, KUL ES-87 Red, and the 45g HHKB Type-S.  I was tempted to get the Leopold "Mini" 66-Key since it had the arrow keys, but I figured I'd be fine without them. 

Either way!  I am excited.

[Altis]

Thank you again for all of the advice.  I decided to keep the KUL ES-87.  While I do enjoy the snappiness of the Costar, the Cherry stabs were fine with me.  In addition, I don't want to go through the hassle of putting new key caps on the Costar stabs.  The Filco was ~$70 more than the KUL, and I had a hard time justifying the cost of it when both keyboards feel very similar. 

That being said, I decided to save that $70 and put it towards a HHKB PRO-2 Type-S  .  I think I am officially settled with a selection of keyboards now: Daskeyboard Brown, KUL ES-87 Red, and the 45g HHKB Type-S.  I was tempted to get the Leopold "Mini" 66-Key since it had the arrow keys, but I figured I'd be fine without them. 

Either way!  I am excited.

Very nice!

You can modify the Cherry stabilizers so they have a hard bottom-out. I did that on my KUL ES-87 since I hated the mushy feeling.

As for the weird mouse issue, try checking the polling rate dip switch. I'm not sure if it would affect it, but it could be worth a shot. I have mine set on the lower one.