Odd Issue with Model M2

[SamirD]

So I've acquired a Model M2 and I really like the feel!

But shortly after it's plugged in and working (like 30 minutes or so), the caps and scroll lock light up and it becomes unresponsive (like one with bad caps).  If I unplug it and let it sit overnight (might even work sitting for less time--haven't tried it yet), it will start working normal again.

Just failing caps or something more?

I actually have a 10 doa warranty on it so I'm considering sending it back.

[Melvang]

I would send it back.  If I remember right, they are rubber dome anyway.

[vanwinkey]

M2s are buckling spring.

[Computer-Lab in Basement]

M2s are buckling spring.

some are and some aren't

https://deskthority.net/wiki/IBM_Selectric_Touch_Keyboard

[chyros]

I've got one for sale ATM if you're interested .

[vanwinkey]

Buckling Spring or rubber done?

[merlin64]

Hello, if it is indeed the capacitors, the following might give you a few pointers
https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=5065.0

[SamirD]

M2s are buckling spring.

some are and some aren't

https://deskthority.net/wiki/IBM_Selectric_Touch_Keyboard

This is why I love this place--I had no idea there was a rubber dome version. 

Buckling Spring or rubber done?

I have the BS version.

I've got one for sale ATM if you're interested .

I know I saw it.    But I know the shipping would be terrible to the US. 

[Touch_It]

Definitely smells like symptoms of bad caps.  Honestly I would replace the caps if you want one in general, as most have bad caps.  I hve one that somehow doesn't but the membrane sheet is messed up or has controller issues.  So close to an amazing keyboard, but IBM cheaped out on some important things.

[merlin64]

Definitely smells like symptoms of bad caps.  Honestly I would replace the caps if you want one in general, as most have bad caps.  I hve one that somehow doesn't but the membrane sheet is messed up or has controller issues.  So close to an amazing keyboard, but IBM cheaped out on some important things.

This is a good idea. Even if you returned it, and got a new one. It's only a matter of time before it fails if it still uses the old capacitors. Admittedly you don't know 100% sure that that is the only problem. I'd say from your symptoms, I would be very much surprised if it wasn't.

Even the cheap metallic film caps would work better than what's currently in there.

[fohat.digs]

I had no idea there was a rubber dome version. 

Rubber dome Model Ms have part numbers that start with "7"

[SamirD]

Hello, if it is indeed the capacitors, the following might give you a few pointers
https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=5065.0

Thank you for the link.  I actually checked it out a few days ago when initially researching this issue.  The teardown and reassembly seems quite tedious.

Definitely smells like symptoms of bad caps.  Honestly I would replace the caps if you want one in general, as most have bad caps.  I hve one that somehow doesn't but the membrane sheet is messed up or has controller issues.  So close to an amazing keyboard, but IBM cheaped out on some important things.

I actually didn't think I'd like it at all, but for some reason, I find it quite nice.  Maybe because of the decreased travel and yet the same buckling spring action--who knows.  But I really do like it enough to want one to keep.

It is quite sad that IBM cut corners on the caps, but I'm sure at the time they were a 'good' manufacturer.  Even these days caps don't last but a few years moreless 20+.

This is a good idea. Even if you returned it, and got a new one. It's only a matter of time before it fails if it still uses the old capacitors. Admittedly you don't know 100% sure that that is the only problem. I'd say from your symptoms, I would be very much surprised if it wasn't.

Even the cheap metallic film caps would work better than what's currently in there.

Yeah, this is a good point.  If you want an M2, you're going to be almost certainly going to be facing this.  And I actually know that the board works unlike some with just the lights on and never tested.

I had no idea there was a rubber dome version. 

Rubber dome Model Ms have part numbers that start with "7"

I knew this applied to the regular Ms, but didn't even imagine a rubberdome version o fthe m2.  I guess that's what evolved into their 'solid' rubberdome.

[0100010]

Hello, if it is indeed the capacitors, the following might give you a few pointers
https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=5065.0

Thank you for the link.  I actually checked it out a few days ago when initially researching this issue.  The teardown and reassembly seems quite tedious.

For two caps?!?

[fohat.digs]

For two caps?

I had a couple of them, long ago, and, as I remember, I could not figure an easy way to open the case so I gave up without taking a chance.

[chyros]

For two caps?

I had a couple of them, long ago, and, as I remember, I could not figure an easy way to open the case so I gave up without taking a chance.

The case is secured from the outside but also from underneath the keycaps so you need to take them off before you can open it.

[SamirD]

For two caps?

I had a couple of them, long ago, and, as I remember, I could not figure an easy way to open the case so I gave up without taking a chance.

The case is secured from the outside but also from underneath the keycaps so you need to take them off before you can open it.

Yep, and then all the flippers can fall out.  And then if the membrane isn't perfectly aligned upon reassembly there can be issues, and that's in addition to just the caps.

[njbair]

Model M2 gets no love. I almost bought one once, but was outbid at the last minute.

[Snowdog993]

The part I hate the most is the spacebar stabilizer.  I think I broke one or two before.

[Touch_It]

The part I hate the most is the spacebar stabilizer.  I think I broke one or two before.

The stabilizers are complete junk.  I broke a couple, but was lucky with my spacebar so far.

[0100010]

The case is secured from the outside but also from underneath the keycaps so you need to take them off before you can open it.

Yep, and then all the flippers can fall out.  And then if the membrane isn't perfectly aligned upon reassembly there can be issues, and that's in addition to just the caps.

Ahhh.  So not not as simple as it seems....

[Snowdog993]

The case is secured from the outside but also from underneath the keycaps so you need to take them off before you can open it.

Yep, and then all the flippers can fall out.  And then if the membrane isn't perfectly aligned upon reassembly there can be issues, and that's in addition to just the caps.

Ahhh.  So not not as simple as it seems....

By comparison, the M2 is very fragile and delicate.  The difference is like night and day.  The Model M is very easy to work on, and the M2 is very "stubborn" to fix.  If you're not careful, a lot of things will break even before you get to the source of the problem.  To top it off, replacement parts are virtually non-existent.  Just be careful.

[chyros]

The case is secured from the outside but also from underneath the keycaps so you need to take them off before you can open it.

Yep, and then all the flippers can fall out.  And then if the membrane isn't perfectly aligned upon reassembly there can be issues, and that's in addition to just the caps.

Ahhh.  So not not as simple as it seems....

By comparison, the M2 is very fragile and delicate.  The difference is like night and day.  The Model M is very easy to work on, and the M2 is very "stubborn" to fix.  If you're not careful, a lot of things will break even before you get to the source of the problem.  To top it off, replacement parts are virtually non-existent.  Just be careful.

I disagree, I think the only problems are the plastic clips on the M2, the rest is way easier than a Model M. I was able to fix my faulty M2 with very little in the way of problems. The Model M is a pain to work with considering it's got those plastic rivets. Also you can secure the flippers on an M2 very easily with some sticky tape, they won't fall out.

[Snowdog993]

The case is secured from the outside but also from underneath the keycaps so you need to take them off before you can open it.

Yep, and then all the flippers can fall out.  And then if the membrane isn't perfectly aligned upon reassembly there can be issues, and that's in addition to just the caps.

Ahhh.  So not not as simple as it seems....

By comparison, the M2 is very fragile and delicate.  The difference is like night and day.  The Model M is very easy to work on, and the M2 is very "stubborn" to fix.  If you're not careful, a lot of things will break even before you get to the source of the problem.  To top it off, replacement parts are virtually non-existent.  Just be careful.

I disagree, I think the only problems are the plastic clips on the M2, the rest is way easier than a Model M. I was able to fix my faulty M2 with very little in the way of problems. The Model M is a pain to work with considering it's got those plastic rivets. Also you can secure the flippers on an M2 very easily with some sticky tape, they won't fall out.

I suppose it's just my experience with them.  I really thought less of them when I broke more than I fixed.

[SamirD]

Great insight as always from GH.

And now a new mystery--it has been working fine now for longer than it ever has before.  I'm actually using it now and wondering why since it always acted up more with the belkin ps2 usb adapter than just being plugged in straight ps2.

I contacted Maxx at phosphorglow.net and he is willing to change caps on an M2 at a very reasonable rate.  But now I'm wondering if this thing is even bad at all.  Quite puzzling.

[SamirD]

I noticed that there's a tear in the cable outer jacket right where it connects to the keyboard.  It doesn't seem like any wires are damaged, but could this be the 'real' source of the issue vs caps?  I've been trying to keep the cable in the same position now each time when moving the keyboard and it's not been acting up.  Cooincidence?

[SamirD]

Day two of working fine.  Not sure what's going on here.

[SamirD]

Still working fine...thoughts?

[0100010]

Maybe now that the board has been plugged in 'a lot', compared to having been unplugged for long time; now the caps are maintaining a charge?

Or - if it is a cable continuity issue, you haven't been moving the cable around much recently?

[SamirD]

Maybe now that the board has been plugged in 'a lot', compared to having been unplugged for long time; now the caps are maintaining a charge?

Or - if it is a cable continuity issue, you haven't been moving the cable around much recently?

Those are the two conclusions I'm thinking too.  If it's just the cable, that's easy enough to eye, but if it's the caps, isn't that weird?  Do caps come 'back to life' when power is applied to them?

[klennkellon]

Model M2's are notorious for their electrical problems, but they are quite easy to dissemble and most of the problems stem from shi**y capacitors that can go dry after awhile.

[SamirD]

Model M2's are notorious for their electrical problems, but they are quite easy to dissemble and most of the problems stem from shi**y capacitors that can go dry after awhile.

Yep, but this one's been  strange as it was exhibiting cap problems but now has been working fine for over a week.

[SamirD]

Well, still no problems after all these days so I'm going to make it a keeper.

[vanwinkey]

This thread proves that you should have gotten a Model M.

[SamirD]

This thread proves that you should have gotten a Model M.

Your post count and trollish reply proves you dont understand the spirit of the community here.