Author Topic: [GB] F104+SSK+122+62+77+50+Ergo orders now open! Kishsaver+Industrial Model F  (Read 2397971 times)

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Offline pupmonster

  • Posts: 21
I purchased actually now 3 model Fs (2 received) and I have gone through quite a few iterations of my configurations and used the custom QMK Configurator, hosted on a non-secured http -- not https -- site using a numeric IP address. I will not put the address here in case that would be a security issue.  Is it now possible to use the standard QMK Configurator, the one that comes up on top in a Google Search?

I am concerned about the long-term sustainability and availability of the aforementioned bespoke Configurator.

Oh, in case you are wondering why I am not using VIA? Well, I have the QMK Configurator figured out and it works for me. I am also able to put my configs into my GIT repo and have them versioned there. Maybe that works for VIA as well, but I am not sure.


Offline Ellipse

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    • Brand New Model F Keyboards
I recommend that everyone switches over to Vial as you can use it with a standalone open source program or without having to download anything, through the vial.rocks web site.  Vial is now going to be the main firmware for the F and beam spring projects.

Deskthority member wolfman is working on the refactoring so that the project is accepted into QMK (more details are on the DT project thread) but it is a slow process.  Currently you must use the beta site linked to in the manual if you want to continue using QMK, though it is not recommended unless there is a board that does not yet have a Vial configuration (for example, some of the universal Model F controllers and the controllers for the various original IBM beam spring keyboards).

Offline pupmonster

  • Posts: 21
Thanks Ellipse for the answer. Do you mind if I ask some clarification questions?

a. On the new not-yet-shipped keyboards (e.g., Classic Style FSSK Model F), if I wish to use the QMK Configurator, I will have to swap out the firmware, correct?

b. Or, on newer Vial Firmware that is now installed on all shipments, such firmware is also compatible with adjustments made with QMK Configurator, correct?

c. On older, already delivered keyboards (roughly vintage <=2022, e.g. F77s and Ultra Compact FSSK Model F), if I wish to use Vial, I have to swap out the firmware, correct?

d. All the default firmware can be found here: https://www.modelfkeyboards.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/07/QMK-layout-files.zip, including the latest and greatest for Vial, correct?

Thanks for the clarification, señor!

Offline Ellipse

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a.  Yes, since the default will be Vial.
b.  I don't know; you may want to ask over on Deskthority if the open source Vial code for the new Model F keyboards will work with Vial or if a few things will require adjustment.
c.  Yes, most boards run on QMK since Model F Vial is so new.  I do flash the latest Vial on some of the boards, such as the round 1 beam 104/ssk and round 1 Model F F104/FSSK, F15, F Ortho, F50, and for those who write a note requesting it.  But it is very easy to flash yourself with either Vial or QMK (details are in the recently updated manual on the project website).
d.  Yes

Offline Ellipse

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Project update:

I have just approved production of the final part, the cases, one year and a day after the official announcement of the project on 3/31/23.

The factory estimates that production and final assembly of completed inner assemblies into the cases will be completed by early May now that the cases have been approved.  If they can pack everything on the container shipment by mid to late May, then by July these could start going out.

After spending many months, the factory has achieved an excellent match both to the IBM Model F original 4704 and IBM beam spring off-white/beige color as well as to my reference IBM Industrial Model M industrial gray case color.  As mentioned earlier, the texture will be a smoother, slightly more modern one, much less bumpy than the (also nice) 4704 keyboard texture.

These same colors were also approved for the beam spring cases, which is why the beige color was a compromise since the IBM beige color varied noticeably among the different powdercoated Model F keyboards and beam spring keyboards in my collection.

From top to bottom:  Top photo:  NOS F50 (I plan on listing this for sale soon - please PM or email me if interested), approved off-white/beige sample F122 case (sample inner assembly plate not painted), IBM original beam spring keyboard.  Bottom photo:  approved industrial gray sample case, NOS IBM Industrial Gray Model M case.
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« Last Edit: Mon, 01 April 2024, 23:54:13 by Ellipse »

Offline Ellipse

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reddit member Grianaig has posted a nice update including photos showing the classic case F62 being setup and the finished product as well.  I especially like the photo of the keyboard during the keycap installation process, properly oriented vertically, spacebar end up.

https://www.reddit.com/r/modelf/comments/1beg69i/my_new_model_f_labs_f62_pictures/

Offline Ellipse

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I have just approved production and assembly of the F122 inner assembly, so now the F122 can proceed to completion.

Below are the first photos of the approved F122 keyboard!

The F122 was a trickier PCB design. Once again a big thanks to forum member wcass (the designer of the PCBs for the capacitive projects) for this huge undertaking. There was an issue where a via was too close to a key pad, which resulted in a higher signal level only for that key. wcass updated the PCB by moving the via away from the key and rearranging some of the column ordering to facilitate placement of that via.

Rico expects to have a firmware update ready in the next few days but testing with the old firmware and my testing has shown no issues with some keys being high value. Rico also came up with a workaround to add a bin for such keys, just in case the PCB could not be adjusted to put the outlier key in line with the other keys' signals.
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Offline clay

  • Posts: 43
  • No foams
I have just approved production and assembly of the F122 inner assembly, so now the F122 can proceed to completion.

Below are the first photos of the approved F122 keyboard!

The F122 was a trickier PCB design. Once again a big thanks to forum member wcass (the designer of the PCBs for the capacitive projects) for this huge undertaking. There was an issue where a via was too close to a key pad, which resulted in a higher signal level only for that key. wcass updated the PCB by moving the via away from the key and rearranging some of the column ordering to facilitate placement of that via.

Rico expects to have a firmware update ready in the next few days but testing with the old firmware and my testing has shown no issues with some keys being high value. Rico also came up with a workaround to add a bin for such keys, just in case the PCB could not be adjusted to put the outlier key in line with the other keys' signals.
(Attachment Link)
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(Attachment Link)

Hi Ellipse! I really like the design of that board! Does it have a detachable cable? I think a lot of us would appreciate it if the future boards have a USB C connection that can be accessed without opening up the keyboard, so that users can easily connect and disconnect cables.

Offline Ellipse

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For all new F and beam models, the controller has a USB-C connector so you can detach the cable from the inside.  You can always get a USB-C patch extension cable if you want easy detachability. 

Offline Ellipse

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Nice seeing everyone at yesterday's NYC meetup!  The meetup was completely sold out and over 150 people attended.  I brought the approved Classic F104, Classic F77, and Round 2 beam spring keyboard for everyone to try out.

Offline ksm123

  • Posts: 105
  • Location: Poland
Just a happy customer.

I've ordered my Ultracompact F104 on February 29th. Mail label was created on March 16th, package entered postal system on March 19th. I've received it after customs on April 8th (in EU).

Installation, including disassembly and switching to short spacebar and additional modifier took me about an hour. One key required some care to make it work, and ANSI Enter was a little sticky, but I managed to deal with it according to instruction manual. Keyboard worked right after plugging it to a laptop. Additional modifier required dealing with udev rules so VIAL would work, but it wasn't anything excessively complicated.

My suggestions to @Ellipse :
Modify manual by adding information on tools required for each operation. I expected Philips screws and I was surprised that torx screws were used.

Offline Ellipse

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Thanks for the feedback ksm123!

Someone let me know that the New Model F project was mentioned in the Shift Happens book on keyboards!  This is a very interesting project to document the various keyboards that have been made.

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/mwichary/shift-happens

Offline Tseg

  • Posts: 54
For all new F and beam models, the controller has a USB-C connector so you can detach the cable from the inside.  You can always get a USB-C patch extension cable if you want easy detachability.

With a dremmel tool, $14 USB-C extender, several hours and a bit of luck I adapted my F77 to have an external mount USB-C.   I dremmeled away just the right amount of zinc and by luck the two case halves screw together completely but also clamp down on this mount very securely (after sanding some grooves into the mount plastic internal side).  While the mod project was rewarding and I'm happy with the result, considering just about all custom keyboards have external USB-C mounts I can only speculate why an external USB-C was never fashioned for this board.   Like Steven Spielberg said about making movies, one never really finishes a project, at some point you just give up and put it in market.

All things considered, I'm happy with the purchase.

« Last Edit: Sun, 14 April 2024, 14:52:29 by Tseg »

Offline Ellipse

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Some good progress from the factory as they wrap up Round 2 Model F production:

Here is a photo of the die cast aluminum cases waiting to be powdercoated:

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The factory also reports that the boxes have completed production.  Two production box photos are below.  As a reminder, the box design has been updated to be a folding box design to be closer to the design of the original IBM Model F XT and AT keyboard boxes instead of the prior boxes which were designed to be like the IBM Model M boxes.  The artwork is just about unchanged except for the keyboard names.
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Offline Ellipse

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I believe these were the final numbers for the first order of the Round 2 Model F keyboards:


Classic F104   900

Off-White/Beige   329
Industrial Gray   236
Black   180
Silver Gray   45
True Red   39
Dark Blue   38
Light Blue   33


Classic F122   400

Off-White/Beige   122
Industrial Gray   87
Black   71
Dark Blue   40
Silver Gray   29
Light Blue   28
True Red   23


Classic FSSK   400

Off-White/Beige   109
Industrial Gray   71
Light Blue   70
Black   54
Dark Blue   40
True Red   31
Silver Gray   24
Uncoated   1


Potential sound reduction mod:

I was recently made aware of a mod to reduce high frequency sounds for keyboards with large PCBs underneath all the keys:

I don't recommend this but would someone tape over or under a capacitive Model F keyboard's PCB?  Or maybe that would affect capacitive sensing or do other damage. 

Could something non-adhesive be used if it is thin enough?  Maybe like an ultra thin silicone sheet (as thin as 0.1mm) or painter's tape as shown in the above video?
« Last Edit: Mon, 22 April 2024, 13:23:56 by Ellipse »

Offline Ellipse

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It is a great honor to see that the new Classic F104 Model F keyboard has made it on Game Rant's list of "The Best Retro Mechanical Keyboards for 2024"!

https://gamerant.com/best-retro-mechanical-keyboards/
« Last Edit: Sat, 27 April 2024, 13:30:59 by Ellipse »

Offline Ellipse

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I wanted to share a report that black case Compact FSSK keyboard serial 193 has been reported stolen - everyone please do keep an eye out for it on the various marketplaces.

Also someone has recommended the following USB-C extension cable to allow for quick connections and disconnections for the classic style case keyboards.  Not all USB cable heads are small enough to fit in the case so this right angle one does the job:

https://www.aliexpress.us/item/3256804448704053.html
« Last Edit: Tue, 30 April 2024, 20:05:53 by Ellipse »

Offline Ellipse

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Leyden Jar update:
Rico has just published the open source Leyden Jar diagnostic tool.  Now all the project files are ready for future development work to add support for additional keyboards, maybe even non-Model F / beam spring keyboards!

https://github.com/mymakercorner/Leyden_Jar_Diagnostic_Tool

There was a discussion on lost/stolen keyboards over on DT.  At least one board did end up being returned which was listed on eBay. The seller was a third party that did not realize the provenance and was fully cooperative. Even if the serial is defaced that would be a giveaway that the board is suspect. I log who gets each serial so I can confirm the board is ok. Some people thankfully have been contacting me to check that a particular listing is legit.

I believe here is the list of currently lost/stolen keyboards, though it may not be 100% correct:
F62 110
F62 127
COMPACT F77 72219** (last two digits hidden for privacy)
F77 1142
F77 225
F77 1155
F77 1849
F77 208
COMPACT F104 11
COMPACT FSSK 193

Types of keyboards to look out for if the serial is not pictured (another key set from what is listed below may have been substituted):

Compact FSSK Black


Compact F104 Black
Regular printed key set (US ANSI layout)


Classic F77 Split Right Shift and Split Backspace Layout
Industrial Gray
Regular printed key set (US ANSI layout)


Classic F77 Standard (ANSI or ISO) Layout
Black


Classic F62 Split Right Shift and Split Backspace Layout
Black
Black Unprinted (ANSI Enter - no ISO Enter)


Classic F77 Split Right Shift and 2U backspace Layout
Industrial Gray
Regular printed key set (US ANSI layout)


Classic F77 ANSI Layout
Industrial Gray
Regular printed key set (US/ANSI layout)


Compact F77 ANSI Layout
Black
Regular printed key set (US/ANSI layout)
« Last Edit: Wed, 08 May 2024, 15:06:59 by Ellipse »

Offline childofthehorn

  • Posts: 194
  • Location: Dallas, TX
Thought I might share Some on my Kish-family. The F62 is a repro and the others are originals. I have run accross the 77 and 62 originals in picking at Computer Reset a few years ago, but at that time we were putting the rare stuff up for museums. The F50 and F107 Kish-unsaver have enough variation that the new one fits right in.




Offline Ellipse

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Thanks for sharing this childofthehorn!  It is nice to see a family of Model F keyboards!  Was there a specific meetup when this photo was taken?

I have updated the Model F product pages based on feedback that the web site should be more organized to help people who are not as familiar with all of the various options and features.  There is now an explanation of each customizable feature and option plus a FAQ section on the various product pages.

Feel free to check these pages out and let me know of any additional changes that would be helpful or things people wished were written on the site instead of having to dig down to find an answer.

Offline applehugger

  • Posts: 14
Thank you for putting in instructions to make a note of the LED overlay the buyer wants right in the model page. This was quite confusing for me when I was ordering my Ultra Compact F104. I sort of assumed (correctly, as it turns out), that putting which LED overlay I wanted in the Notes section was necessary.

I might recommend renaming the "Notes / How'd you hear about the project? What convinced you to join in?" to "Notes / LED Style Requested (if ordering)/How'd you hear about the project? What convinced you to join in?", or breaking up the text areas into three sections:
  • "Notes/LED Style Requested (if ordering)
  • "How'd you hear about the project? What convinced you to join in?"
  • "DT/GH/Reddit username (for messaging; not required)"
It isn't super obvious that simply checking the "LED Overlay" box isn't enough since there are nine different styles available (which I really appreciate, btw). In fact, it might also be a good idea to link to the page on LED Overlays, Metal Badges, Beam Spring Modules, and Key Sets page right next to the option to select an LED overlay, e.g.:

"LED Overlay ($5) - See this page and put the style you want in the Notes section."

These are all just very minor quibbles with the ordering process, which I thought was otherwise quite easy compared to most, more traditional group buy-style projects.


Offline Tempest790

  • Posts: 131
Hmm. I think I put which LED overlay when I ordered it, but I'm not sure now. Hope I did.

Offline Ellipse

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There was some discussion over on DT on keyboard wear since these keyboards use paint instead of plastic.  The summary is that the original batch keyboards' paint was more original-style and had similar wear patterns as the IBM originals, while the production of the past couple years and going forward uses only the reformulated higher-durability powdercoating finish.

"Everything is about tradeoffs. If you want an original formulation textured, matte appearance you have to accept the non-automotive quality paint finish. Uncoated paint does wear down after heavy usage (think how easy it is to scuff and chip painted walls), but the improved powdercoating of the most recent production run and the new formulation used with the recent cases should slow down the wear process. The tradeoff is that the new process is more of a mix between the Model M style finish and Model F style, and not exclusively the Model F style, but the durability is higher.

So far I have not received even one report of wear for the most recent formulation of the ultra compact cases (the two piece die cast aluminum cases).

Regarding a comparison to the originals: my guess is a lot of the old 4700 systems and their keyboards were only used for several years in the 80s before they were shelved at the recycler companies after the banks upgraded to more powerful systems as technology rapidly advanced from when these came out in the early 1980s, so much of the wear was expected to be sustained in the first year or first few years that they were actually used (even though I have heard reports from my recycler contacts of some small branches that still used the 4700 system consistently for decades, as of about 10 years ago)!

Having refurbished many of these original IBM keyboards, I have seen that many of them were repainted by third parties because the paint does not withstand usage for long. Also IBM had an option to rent these keyboards - my guess is that after a couple years many of them were replaced and refurbished just for cosmetic reasons, as part of a service contract or rental agreement. Often times the inner assembly and case manufacture dates were years apart (sometimes the reverse was true and the case was older than the inner assembly as they would just replace the inner assembly due to technological failure from what I have seen - many inner assemblies of my 4704 collection were refurbished in 1996)."

Offline Ellipse

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Progress update:

The factory is finishing up assembly of the F104 and FSSK this month. 

The F122 has also completed production, everything except for the inner and outer/packaging foam, so I approved assembly to start.  This week I ordered the F122 PCBs and the Leyden Jar controllers.  The factory had some issues with their F122 sample even though mine worked fine but they just ended up fixing it by using another capacitive board (one of the sample boards was defective or damaged). 

To save time in the past the factory would start assembly with the foam/barrels/flippers (the most time consuming portion of assembly) and they store the inner assembly upside down while they wait for the PCBs to arrive and for the time they spend soldering the controller/ribbon cable/capacitive PCB.  Also the Leyden Jar firmware has been fine tuned with some slight updates for the F122 and now it is working well.

Offline applehugger

  • Posts: 14
I got my Ultra Compact F104 today and WOW, what a beast! It's so heavy and well-built. Assembly (i.e., putting in the stabilizer inserts and keys) was straightforward, although I read the entire how-to guide on the Model F website several times and watched the entire setup video. I had a few stabilized keys that needed some attention and my numpad enter was spamming keystrokes until I re-seated the spring, but otherwise I didn't have any major issues.

I ended up floss-modding mine. I intended to try it out sans floss first, but from the moment I got the spacebar installed, I knew I couldn't handle it. The ping is just so intense! I don't like the pinging on my Model M, and this seems about twice as bad. However, with the floss mod, I like the sound. I don't think it's amazing sounding like some of my Alps keyboards, but the click sound is very clean and cool sounding. It definitely sounds uber-mechanical.

So far, the key feel isn't blowing me away, but I felt the same way about genuine Topre switches when I first tried them and after a few days, they became my favorite. I like the very clean tactility of the Model F keys, but the weighting is a bit light for my taste. I prefer the weight of the Model M's switches. However, I will have a more well-formed opinion after a few days typing with this keyboard.

Overall I'm kind of astonished that I was able to buy a brand-new Model F in a never before seen form factor. I think the look of the Ultra Compact F104 is awesome, and I think it's amazing that Ellipse was able to pull this all off. I always wanted to try out a Model F, and several years ago, I missed out on a good deal on an F122, but I really don't like any of the original layouts. This is a dream come true and I am seriously considering one of the Classic 104 or 122 key layouts in the future. Major, major props to Ellipse to bringing this project to fruition!

I got mine in black with grey keys. Here are some pictures:


Offline raptorzoz

  • Posts: 101
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I just ordered the model F104! I'm guessing that this will be included in the next production run. Is there any timeline on when you will submit the order to the factory? Thanks for the awesome project!

Offline Ellipse

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Thanks for joining the new project!  There is only one batch for each keyboard so no one will need to wait for anew production run in the future.  I have also ordered many extra keyboards to allow for in stock shipping of future orders once everything arrives to me, expected over the coming months.

Offline Ellipse

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Pad print update: Here is the latest factory photo showing a test print. This is not yet approved for production. They still need to fine tune the alignment to make it more consistent; a few keys on one side look to have been double printed and a number keys did not have full contact, such as tab.
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Offline Ellipse

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The next NYC Mechanical Keyboard meetup has just been announced and you can get tickets at the link below (each meetup sells out quickly so pick up your ticket soon!).  Due to its popularity the venue has moved to one with a much larger capacity.

https://www.eventbrite.com/e/nyc-mechanical-keyboard-meetup-july-2024-tickets-908852882437

PC World has posted an article on the NYC Mechanical Keyboard meetup last month. 

The last photo in the article shows the new Model F project keyboards table (with an original 122 on it) and me testing out a nice original IBM F122 that someone else brought to the meetup:

https://www.pcworld.com/article/2303216/a-journey-to-nycs-mechanical-keyboard-mecca.html

Offline Ellipse

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Regarding floss mods - I was sent the following note:
I received some interesting feedback -  "I immediately did the floss mod. I
didn't have that super-floss, but I did have waxed thread for leather
work. I used that instead. I can't compare to floss, but it works great.
I have needed to redo some keys that have redeveloped the ping, but I
believe that is because I cut the thread too short."

Offline Ellipse

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Project update:

The factory expects to complete assembly of all F104 and FSSK and to be ready to load the goods onto the container ship in two weeks from now.  Some of the powdercoating finishes and PCB ribbon cable soldering needed to be redone, which added some weeks to the earlier plan of completion in May.  I am currently getting quotations for the shipping containers.

Usually a container shipment takes about 8 weeks from departure to delivery, including the sailing time, ship unloading, customs processing, getting access to the container, arranging delivery trucking, etc. 

The F122 will need about 5-6 more weeks.  Everything is just about done; we are just waiting on the PCBs to finish, and then they can install them into the inner assemblies and wrap everything up.  So as to get the two most popular models (F104 and FSSK) out to everyone as soon as possible the F122 is going to be in the next container shipment in a couple months from now, along with the Round 2 beam spring keyboards.  Even though it is far more costly to split the shipments into 2 20' containers I did not want the project to be delayed any further so we can get everything out as soon as possible. 

Quantities of all of the older production models are running low so I definitely recommend picking one up, especially while the big discount remains in place for most variations.  These include the F62, F77, compact F104/FSSK, and Round 1 beam spring boards.  There are still some F15's left.  I have 1 F50 left and 1 or 2 split ortholinear boards left (please email me for details).
« Last Edit: Wed, 05 June 2024, 22:54:38 by Ellipse »

Offline Ellipse

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I received some interesting feedback on repairing broken keys and modifying tweezers to insert springs - probably best to replace the key but if it is a rare/original key this may be useful:

"If a bit of a key breaks off, quick drying superglue won't work. The keys seem almost
made of the same material as the cap of the glue. But what does work is this:

One layer of epoxy two component glue on both sides, then the superglue that
attaches to the epoxy...Also, if you dip your tweezers in some glue or epoxy before using it, and dry it
out of course, it's much softer on the springs and easier to insert and press down."

Offline Ellipse

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Here is some feedback on working with Vial on Debian:

"In case it helps future travelers, this is how I changed the keyboard layout on debian:

sudo apt install python3 python3-tk tk-dev build-essential zlib1g-dev libffi-dev libssl-dev libbz2-dev libreadline-dev libsqlite3-dev liblzma-dev libncurses-dev libusb-dev libusb-1.0-0-dev git curl
curl https://pyenv.run | bash
git clone https://github.com/vial-kb/vial-gui.git
cd vial-gui
pyenv install 3.6.15
pyenv virtualenv 3.6.15 vial
pyenv activate vial
pip install -r requirements.txt
fbs run

At this point, vial-gui was able to detect both halves of the keyboard. Updating the keyboard layout ended up being a lot easier than I expected!

In the docs, its probably worth having a section for "checking if vial is already installed" (I think that looks like running vial-gui)

The vial.rocks website is absolutely awesome, but it wasn't able to connect to either keyboard half from firefox or chromium on Debian. Relying on the WebUSB/Web Serial to verify vial is already installed on the keyboard might not be as foolproof as vial-gui."

Offline Ellipse

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The latest blog update has just been posted on the project web site:

https://www.modelfkeyboards.com/blog/

Currently in stock: All F62 and F77, Ultra Compact F104, Ultra Compact FSSK, F15 Split Ergonomic, IBM NOS F50 macro pad (very limited quantity, see below for details)

Completed production and assembly; preparing to be packed on the container ship this month, delivery starting in late August once the shipping container is delivered to me:  the metal case classic Model M style F104 and FSSK

Currently in production: the metal case classic Model M style F122 keyboards (expected to complete assembly in a month) and the Round 2 classic style Beam Spring keyboards (expected to complete assembly in a couple months, later this year)

Batch of Original NOS IBM Model F metal case 50 Key F50 keyboards, part 6019273 now up for auction (as mentioned a couple months ago)

Product page:  https://www.modelfkeyboards.com/product/original-ibm-model-f-metal-case-50-key-f50-keyboard-part-6019273/

Google Form to bid:  https://docs.google.com/forms/d/1QVkCcHxkNwlX9CUsXM5F-8JJZcwBD4yu4RlHRdxBT1Q/

Recently one of my recycler contacts came across a batch of brand new old stock (NOS) IBM 4704 F50 50-key macro pad keyboards, part number IBM 6019273. They are without the original packaging and have wear/some paint loss from storage and handling not in the original packaging. It looks like most were manufactured in 1990. As is common with these keyboards, flippers/springs can be removed to fit larger keys, such as a 2U horizontal or 2U vertical key, so you could even make the rightmost block of this keyboard into the number pad block found on an IBM Model M keyboard.

The keyboards in this group buy will come with a USB-C cable, USB-C Pro Micro, and xwhatsit-based pandrew 4704 controller that you can use to get it working with modern computers (you have to solder this or pay someone to do this as I do not provide a soldering service). You only get what is pictured, no other keys and no relegendables are included.

In order to fairly allocate the few available NOS IBM F50 keyboards, a pay-as-bid auction starts today. In summary, everyone submits a best offer and I choose which offers to accept. The way this works is that you fill out this Google Form noting the maximum amount you are willing to pay and the quantity you want (quantities are strictly limited to a maximum of 2 keyboards per person). If you are selected as the winner, you pay the amount that you bid. I may allocate only 5 or so keyboards this year for the current auction, depending on the demand, with the remaining keyboards to be auctioned off next year and in subsequent years. The winners will be accepted at different times over the coming months based on the strength of the bid (the stronger/higher the bid, the more likely it will be accepted sooner rather than later), meaning you may not hear back from me for months on the outcome of your bid, if at all.

In terms of pricing, 25 new production compact F50 keyboards sold out quickly at the $399 price determined by reverse/Dutch auction, so the bidding for these keyboards will start there, but please do not bid $400 as I won't be awarding any keyboards near that level.

Original IBM keyboards have become extremely collectible in recent years. An original IBM F62 Kishsaver sold last month for $7,500 on eBay, and other models have sold for $1,000 and higher in recent months: https://www.ebay.com/itm/176368326890

Photos of one of these keyboards (all keyboards will vary in appearance and may have more or less scuffs, paint loss, and other damage but all are NOS):  https://imgur.com/a/8jGOQuw

I would have liked to keep these in my collection since it is nearly impossible that I will be lucky enough to find these keyboards ever again as most have been destroyed by now*, but the proceeds from this auction will be used to help cover the tens of thousands of dollars in project cost overruns incurred over the years, including prototype costs and many express air mail costs from the factories.

*Many forum members remember all the efforts several years ago to deal with the bank manager who had the room full of original Kishsaver F62 keyboards but was difficult to deal with (for those who have not heard of this story before, the bank manager had the Kishsavers all put in a metal shredder and completely destroyed) - that story stands out most for me. Similarly, another recycler sold me some refurbished/repainted F50s many years ago, but when I had contacted them a year or so later, in the time since I contacted them, they had sadly sent all of the unsold F50 keyboards overseas to be destroyed and melted down for scrap metal.
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« Last Edit: Sun, 09 June 2024, 23:19:12 by Ellipse »

Offline Ellipse

  • Thread Starter
  • Posts: 1638
  • Location: New York
    • Brand New Model F Keyboards
Pad print update: The factory is getting ready for the updated machine to be completed, expected in the next week or so.

As always please do sign the interest form to reserve your pad printed set. https://docs.google.com/forms/d/1873Q9wJFyNvJ4-TEBN6P9JbzaVxErbNd-h4XtN1DfNk

As everyone saw in the photo of the pad print test posted recently, the final plate was already made so those keys are the final keys. Since plates are costly, I noted in this month's blog update that future plates will require a minimum order quantity of 5 sets. One plate can have all of the spots for keys as shown below.

This first plate includes the regular US printed key set, HHKB 6 key set (green boxes in the attached drawing), Mac 6 key set (red boxes; text version only - they combine 2 printings of 3 keys each to get 6 keys so only 250 Mac sets are in the first batch), and some miscellaneous keys as shown (blue boxes). There will be no ISO sets as mentioned before; ISO Enter, Code, and PC AT Big Enter are not yet ready. Pricing is expected to be $80 to $100 for these sets, probably closer to $80 for the US sets and higher for the ISO sets.

So far we have about 250 sets' worth of interest expressed in the Google interest form (not just US but other sets of interest too); there will be around 500 sets in the first production run.

As soon as production is finished, ordering will be opened. I think you'll be able to choose to be in a batch air mailed to me (for $15 to $20 more, to defray air mail costs) or wait for the second container shipment later this year with the beam spring and F122 keyboards.
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Offline Ellipse

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  • Posts: 1638
  • Location: New York
    • Brand New Model F Keyboards
I am trying to put together a list of the most requested modern layouts for some possible Model F small production runs.  What are some of the newer layouts that are most popular, or classic layouts that have not yet been made?

The Preonic non-split ortholinear

The split ortho Ergodox style - hopefully another round can be made with some updates such as controller communication between halves or one controller that controls both halves

Offline CaiusCosades

  • Posts: 6
I am trying to put together a list of the most requested modern layouts for some possible Model F small production runs.  What are some of the newer layouts that are most popular, or classic layouts that have not yet been made?

The Preonic non-split ortholinear

The split ortho Ergodox style - hopefully another round can be made with some updates such as controller communication between halves or one controller that controls both halves

I own both the original F77 Classic and the F15 Split and love both. Unfortunately, I’ve had issues with RSI and have has to swap to split ortho boards for daily work. I’d be interested in the Ergodox style if you do another run, but would REALLY like to see something with key wells like the Glove 80, dactyls, and the Kinesis Advantage 360. Dunno how practical something like that would be to make, but I’d love something like that. I’ve been playing around with the idea of trying to have someone print a capacitive PCB in a similar style as the MX Flex PCBs that Bastard Keyboards & Cyboard use for their dactyls.

Offline Damage

  • Posts: 110
I am trying to put together a list of the most requested modern layouts for some possible Model F small production runs.  What are some of the newer layouts that are most popular, or classic layouts that have not yet been made?

The Preonic non-split ortholinear

The split ortho Ergodox style - hopefully another round can be made with some updates such as controller communication between halves or one controller that controls both halves

I would love to see an ergo layout along the lines of an EM.7/Alice + arrows/Arisu setup or maybe just a split ergo TKL like the LZ Ergo, FLX Virgo, etc. Would buy one if you made one!

Offline raptorzoz

  • Posts: 101
  • Location: Germany
Definitely a reproduction of the ibm model f 7404 107 in zinc, I thought the 104 would’ve been the only one I needed, but if you make a 107, I’m getting that as well, without a question

Offline Ellipse

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  • Location: New York
    • Brand New Model F Keyboards
There is the new F122 model, which is the same as the F107 but with function keys on top. 

https://www.modelfkeyboards.com/product/classic-style-f122-model-f-keyboard/

Offline raptorzoz

  • Posts: 101
  • Location: Germany
There is the new F122 model, which is the same as the F107 but with function keys on top. 

https://www.modelfkeyboards.com/product/classic-style-f122-model-f-keyboard/

Well it is a bit similar, but I dislike it aesthetically compared to the 104 (which I’ve bought) and my favourite design is the f107 4704, the only reason I didn’t get the f77 was the small size and lack of keys, aesthetically it’s the best of the currently available repros, the f107 would be the best of both worlds a large number of keys, in a heavy zinc case with a pen holder, oversized relegendable numpad/macropad, etc
« Last Edit: Fri, 14 June 2024, 11:18:44 by raptorzoz »

Offline Ellipse

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  • Location: New York
    • Brand New Model F Keyboards
Sharing (with permission) the first photo sent to me of the Russian Cyrillic layout on an F77, with F1-F12 front printed Russian Cyrillic keys and the HHKB layout.
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Offline Ellipse

  • Thread Starter
  • Posts: 1638
  • Location: New York
    • Brand New Model F Keyboards
Layouts update:

We were talking about possible new layouts for the Model F:  Model F Preonic and Planck style keyboards have gotten 25 poll submissions over on reddit over the past few days from someone who was interested in them.  I may do a more official interest check with collecting emails in the near future.

Offline raptorzoz

  • Posts: 101
  • Location: Germany
Layouts update:

We were talking about possible new layouts for the Model F:  Model F Preonic and Planck style keyboards have gotten 25 poll submissions over on reddit over the past few days from someone who was interested in them.  I may do a more official interest check with collecting emails in the near future.

Is there a  link to your poll, I can't find it on your reddit profile.