Blank PBT caps from SP - Not impressed with quality...

[bendrexl]

This is my first order for custom keycaps so feel free to tell me I'm crazy, but I'm not impressed with the small order of blank DSA PBT keycaps I just received from pimpmykeyboard.com

They feel really light, and the walls seem thin and are curved toward the center, sort of warped.  After growing up with Lego sets, maybe my expectations are too high, but at ~$1 / keycap I was expecting much better :/

Is this typical of keycaps from SP? Or just the blank sets? I'm just looking for a set of modifiers for my upcoming ErgoDox infinity, so I'm open to suggestions as to a better source for the 1u / 1.5u / 2u caps I'll need.

Thanks!

[xtrafrood]

     This is interesting, I'll have to watch this post and see what other people say about SP's PBT key-caps.  I was under the impression that they were one of if not the best source for blank PBT key-caps.  PBT LEGOs?!  When did this happen?!  My head is going to explode from all the information this site has to offer 

[ileben]

     This is interesting, I'll have to watch this post and see what other people say about SP's PBT key-caps.  I was under the impression that they were one of if not the best source for blank PBT key-caps.

PBT plastic is very prone to warping during the process of keycap creation, that's also why it is very uncommon to see PBT spacebars - the larger, the harder to control the warp (although there are some noteable exceptions as the excellent topre PBT spacebars that matteo brought to life).

I have a PBT DSA set and I can also observe warping on keycap walls, but only when looking at the bottom of the keycap. The warp is not big or noticeable enough for me to be bothered when the keycaps are on the keyboard. Not sure just how bad yours is without the picture to be able to say if it's really anemic.

I have a PBT set in cherry profile from IMSTO which is really nice and thick and has no warping. I hear Gateron PBT caps are also very good but I don't own any.

[bendrexl]

PBT LEGOs?!  When did this happen?!

Heh, you're right, I'm pretty sure Lego parts are ABS, so apples-to-oranges comparison (maybe).

PBT plastic is very prone to warping during the process of keycap creation, that's also why it is very uncommon to see PBT spacebars

Ah, that explains why I've seen PBT spacebars specifically called out then, thanks.

I have a PBT DSA set and I can also observe warping on keycap walls, but only when looking at the bottom of the keycap. The warp is not big or noticeable enough for me to be bothered when the keycaps are on the keyboard. Not sure just how bad yours is without the picture to be able to say if it's really anemic.

I have a PBT set in cherry profile from IMSTO which is really nice and thick and has no warping. I hear Gateron PBT caps are also very good but I don't own any.

Attached a photo (if I I'm allowed to with a fresh account, anyway).  I just picked the first two keys of each color I picked up, but notice there's a chip at the top of a purple key too. Again, this is my first set and maybe my expectations are way off, but I'd like to know before I buy any more. Thanks for the input!

[ileben]

(Attachment Link)

Yeah that's pretty much how my DSA set looks. The orange key on the left is maybe borderline anemic but I think every set will have some keys like that. I've only ever owned one DSA set though, so take it with a grain of salt. Maybe other users can chip in with their own experience.

As for the chip on the purple keycap, I've experienced small defects like this on at least a couple keys in pretty much every key set I've ever ordered. Sometimes it happens during production, other times during packaging/transport when sharp edges of keys rub against each other.

The reality of the situation is that there's not much pressure on the keycap factories to do better. The tooling to produce the caps is extremely expensive so only a few companies own in. It is also very expensive to run so it's hard for the company to turn profit without massive orders. On top of that, the enthusiast market is very small compared to enterprise orders which means it's barely any incentive for them to do it (that's why Cherry sold their equipment to GMK and that's why the relatively "high" minimum-order-quantities in group buys).

The sad hard thruth is, we can be happy that companies are even willing to satisfy our weird little requests and provide us with beautiful caps to sit on the desk of a few lucky individuals.

[nickw]

those look pretty much on par with the few sets of dsa caps I have bought. They are fine to type on,  and have a nice texture, but no,  they aren't perfect.
It's less noticeable once they are on the board though.

[bendrexl]

those look pretty much on par with the few sets of dsa caps I have bought. They are fine to type on,  and have a nice texture, but no,  they aren't perfect.
It's less noticeable once they are on the board though.

Thanks, and I'm sure you're right - once installed and in-use, I'll pretty much forget about it. Are your DSA sets from SP also?

The sad hard thruth is, we can be happy that companies are even willing to satisfy our weird little requests and provide us with beautiful caps to sit on the desk of a few lucky individuals.

True that - and considering how long I've been waiting for something like the ErgoDox to be a thing, I'm more than happy that we have options at all

So, here's where I'm at - I jumped on the recent Vortex Doubleshot PBT drop, and just want some quality keycaps to fill in the ErgoDox layout. I'd rather have a set of plain black / white that are higher quality than custom colors at lesser quality.

I chose not to get the Granite Ergodoxian set because I wasn't sure I wanted legends on all my modifiers (I don't know what layout I'm going settle on), but I wonder now if they would have been higher quality than what I've got?

[saxophone]

Drops take too long time. You can simply order from Corus on Amazon and get stuff instantly.

[xtrafrood]

Phew, I was expecting the worst.  Those seem usable at least, I may order one of the dsa dye sub sets from SP.

[x9Memoriez]

There are usually small chips on the edges of keycaps, and this is the breakoff point from the rest of the mold. Usually in a keycap set, the majority of keys would have a tiny chip on the sides from the breakoff.

SP does a weird injection for their DSA sets if seen from the underside, but the texture is nice, and the quality shouldn't be worry.

[bendrexl]

Phew, I was expecting the worst.  Those seem usable at least, I may order one of the dsa dye sub sets from SP.

Definitely usable, and the texture seems good, though the left/right edges of the contact pad seem a little sharp on the 1.5 & 2U keys, not the smooth spherical contour I was expecting.

There are usually small chips on the edges of keycaps, and this is the breakoff point from the rest of the mold. Usually in a keycap set, the majority of keys would have a tiny chip on the sides from the breakoff.

Good to know, that makes sense - chips aren't a big deal.

What I would like are some heavier, straighter keycaps for my next purchase. What are some consistently-excellent producers for keycaps in general, and DSA specifically?

[nickw]

Thanks, and I'm sure you're right - once installed and in-use, I'll pretty much forget about it. Are your DSA sets from SP also?

Yep, same ones, just different colours.  Also for an ergodox style board I built. 

I chose not to get the Granite Ergodoxian set because I wasn't sure I wanted legends on all my modifiers (I don't know what layout I'm going settle on), but I wonder now if they would have been higher quality than what I've got?

They would be the same molds, just with dyesub legends.  But I agree that you would likely end up with a different modifier setup that may or may not have the right modifiers on the right size keys.  I know mine are way off.

Probably, if you wanted legends, I would say you would be better off getting the base set, and buying a blank set of ergodox mods from SP.  Of course, then you're getting into fairly big $$$ for what you're actually getting.

[nickw]

Definitely usable, and the texture seems good, though the left/right edges of the contact pad seem a little sharp on the 1.5 & 2U keys, not the smooth spherical contour I was expecting.

What I would like are some heavier, straighter keycaps for my next purchase. What are some consistently-excellent producers for keycaps in general, and DSA specifically?

SP's SA caps are tall heavy abs spherical caps, which are definitely very nice, but also very expensive.  They have a bigger, shallower contact surface.  They have much straighter edges, probably mostly because they're abs, which is less prone to warping as it cools.

I would suggest just sticking with your dsa caps for a bit, though.  They are pretty nice to type on, and the warpage isn't really that visible when they're on the board.

DSA is SP's own profile, so you won't find other manufacturers with them.  I expect if you chose one of the few colours that's in ABS, or ordered a "deep space" set (which are doubleshot abs) they would be the same shape, but maybe less warped?  Not 100% sure about that, but there's a set on the way to me in the mail right now, so I can probably send some pics for comparison in a few days.

Of course, if you're one of those people who's dead set on PBT,  warpage is always going to be a concern.

[bendrexl]

Yep, same ones, just different colours.  Also for an ergodox style board I built.

That's pretty sweet - what board are you using? What's different compared to the Dox?

Probably, if you wanted legends, I would say you would be better off getting the base set, and buying a blank set of ergodox mods from SP.  Of course, then you're getting into fairly big $$$ for what you're actually getting.

I already bought the backlit Vortext doubleshot set from MassDrop (on the way), and also bought the set of grey-purple ErgoDox mods from SP. I know I'm mixing profiles, but I've seen a few other users who have done it that way and it worked for them.

Given how much $ the ergodox mod set was from SP, I'm tempted to return it and get a set like this - mix/match with my Vortex set to fill out most of the modifiers. http://www.maxkeyboard.com/max-ansi-pbt-104-key-cherry-mx-keycap-set-blank.html

Heck, if I bought two sets I could fill out the whole layout in OEM/Cherry profile and probably resell them minus the modifiers since those are commonly replaced anyway...

SP's SA caps are tall heavy abs spherical caps, which are definitely very nice, but also very expensive.  They have a bigger, shallower contact surface.  They have much straighter edges, probably mostly because they're abs, which is less prone to warping as it cools.

DSA is SP's own profile, so you won't find other manufacturers with them.  I expect if you chose one of the few colours that's in ABS, or ordered a "deep space" set (which are doubleshot abs) they would be the same shape, but maybe less warped?  Not 100% sure about that, but there's a set on the way to me in the mail right now, so I can probably send some pics for comparison in a few days.

Ah okay, that all makes sense. You're the first one I've heard mention that DSA is an SP design, didn't know that.

Of course, if you're one of those people who's dead set on PBT,  warpage is always going to be a concern.

Not dead set on anything, but my Kinesis freestyle's keys could pull double-duty as a mirror after a couple years of use, so I figured more durable is better. But I should have known there would be trade offs

Thanks a ton for all the input, and I look forward to seeing what your new ABS set looks like.

[nickw]

That's pretty sweet - what board are you using? What's different compared to the Dox?

I designed my own boards.  It is pretty similar to the dox,  but I used a microcontroller in each board,  and a second one to handle the leds.  Turns out that I am not actually a big fan of the layout though,  so I have been building something similar to the planck,  which I am really pleased with so far. (still writing the firmware,  but it is already usable)

as far as your mixing sets goes,  it can work pretty well if the heights are similar.  I have a second one of those boards with the dsa mods  and a set of cherry alphas which are different but close enough in height,  and not overly angled,   They work just fine.   obviously I notice the difference,  but not in a bad way.   If there's a large difference in angle or height,  it will be annoying.

[bendrexl]

Just got my Vortex Doubleshot PBT key caps, and they look really nice. I don't see any concave or rough edges, even the space-bar looks really straight.



I also jumped on the PuLSE SA drop, which I'm really excited to see.

[LiquidEvilGaming]

My only real major gripe with SP keycaps from what little i have ordered is the following.

The midnight DCS set while gorgeous looking is VERY thin ABS for the price they command.

Secondly their shipping method is horrible...90-120$ Keycap sets just sent loose in little ziplock sandwhich bags?  My 60$ Ducky set was sent and cared for as if they were precious gems...yet far more expensive sets are sent as if they were toys in the mail?

I have not however had any issues with overall quality but than again i have never ordered blanks from them either.

[-musubi]

I have a set of dye sub pbts from SP, and I would def agree with you that there are more spruce marks and slight warping then I would like when picking up each key individually. However after I put them on the board, it's pretty hard to notice, so I guess its one of those things where you just have to live with it