HHKB Layout - How hard to get used to?

[ryahirv]

Hi all
I'm by NO means a programmer, but I do use the arrow keys a fair bit on my RealForce 87u.

Could anyone comment on how hard the HHKB layout is to get used to?

Anyone try it for a while and ultimately fail?
Or any other comments on it in general?

I don't use the F keys so I'm fine having those buried under the Fn key layer...I'm just curious how hard it is to get used to the arrow keys in that setup.

Thanks in advance!

[starscream]

Doesn't take long to get used to. Couple days at most.
Now it feels strange typing on a keyboard that doesn't have its backspace directly above the enter key

Only thing that still occasionally throws me off is forgetting that my Ctrl key  is now above shift when I'm really focusing on a game

[derb2k2]

it took me a few days to learn the shortcuts with its layout. Make the effort and thou shalt be rewarded.

For backspace, try not to lift your pinky too much if you have to press it repeatedly. The dome will easily push it up. It's all technique.

[demik]

nah

[iLLucionist]

Took me a week to get it into my muscle memory. But I must ask: do you use a Mac? OS X has these emacs-like word / sentence / line navigation shortcuts throughout the os. For instance, cmd + right is go to end of line (end key on 104), fn + right is go to next word etc. It took me longer to get used to that, because you also need to use the diamond arrow keys alongside the OS X mappings. But now I'm used to it, I think that the HHKB is the best layout out there. Especially because you still have a dedicated tilde and back tick.

[romevi]

Will the Backspace placement make much difference if I already use my ring finger?

[naasfu]

it's not bad as long as you don't do a lot of ctrl/shift + F/Home/End/PgX combos.

my problem is when i switch between the hhkb and other boards with non-hhkb layout, since i get used to one layout and then mess up when switching to the other.

[robbles]

I was really nervous about the layout too but I got used to it mostly after a week, and fully after a month. I'm on Mac so the different control placement doesn't affect me as much, since the command key is in the same place. Backspace placement was strange and still gets me when I switch to other boards. You could always get white with printed caps for your first one and get blank caps when you buy a second. And you will buy a second. Trust me 

[ryahirv]

Thank you all for the great replies..

I am on Mac - But don't find myself doing too many crazy combos usually.  It's just those arrow keys I'm worried about, but the responses are putting my mind at ease a bit here.

[iLLucionist]

Thank you all for the great replies..

I am on Mac - But don't find myself doing too many crazy combos usually.  It's just those arrow keys I'm worried about, but the responses are putting my mind at ease a bit here.

Buy it, you won't regret it. Yes, it is a lot of money, but it truly is a miracle of a kb, both the feel and the layout. Adjustment period should be relatively short.

My GF even has a HHKB black and she can't even touch type perfectly but even she swears buy it. My mom even has one!

[ryahirv]

Thank you all for the great replies..

I am on Mac - But don't find myself doing too many crazy combos usually.  It's just those arrow keys I'm worried about, but the responses are putting my mind at ease a bit here.

Buy it, you won't regret it.

My apologies - I should have been more clear.

I'm actually asking in regard to doing the HHKB layout on the new Model F keyboards on the forum right now (not on an actual HHKB)

[Bucake]

as replies already show, it's not too bad to get used to it.
i however went for hasu's controller so that i could decide for myself how i wanted the layout to be. hands-down my best keyboard-related decision

but if the arrow keys are your main concern, you really shouldn't worry. i used my index finger for left and down, middle-finger for up and right - and it worked great!

edit: wait, what? you're considering the HHKB Fn layout for.. another keyboard? firstly, i would start by changing the position of the Fn key. that way you won't be so limited in what keys would work well as arrow keys.

Will the Backspace placement make much difference if I already use my ring finger?

nope.
you might need a day to get used to it not being located top-right, but your brain will love it once your muscle memory is used to it. the position makes perfect sense : )

[KingRama]

I think it took me a little under a week to get used to the new CTRL and Backspace location.
But once you get used to it, I think you start to realize how good it is


Sometimes I occasionally press capslock by accident on other boards, but not really. 


Over a couple weeks of swapping between boards you evolve into your godstage and you can automagically switch and adjust between keyboard layouts with ease.


TRUST ME IT HAPPENS

The backspace was honestly the most difficult part, but I promise you'll get used to it :3


EDIT: woops. The arrow keys are really intuitive when you get used to it as well - starts to feel natural after a while. I haven't looked into it much, but the Japanese version of the HHKB has arrow keys on the board :3

[jchan94]

It's interesting seeing these different setups, but I dare ask.... why? aha.

I know that it's great to be different and personal, but at the cost of convenience for trying... it's kind of a big toll.

Anyone want to chime in?

[fanpeople]

Over a couple weeks of swapping between boards you evolve into your godstage and you can automagically switch and adjust between keyboard layouts with ease.

[azhdar]

Look at the arrows position on the second layer, this was no-go for me, arrows way too close to the fn key to use them when I tried the layout on a different keyboard.

[KingRama]

Over a couple weeks of swapping between boards you evolve into your godstage and you can automagically switch and adjust between keyboard layouts with ease.

HAHAHAHA yes, exactly what I was thinking.

This video is exactly what is going on inside your brain when you hit godstage.

[thatllbeme]

Pretty easy to get used to. Use it enough and it'll be stuck in muscle memory - I find it hard to use my ISO Ducky after a long session on the HHKB because the backspace and enter are in such different places. Not a big fan of the arrow key placement though, but I use Emacs shortcuts for arrow keys anyway so it doesn't matter that much.

[iLLucionist]

I think it took me a little under a week to get used to the new CTRL and Backspace location.
But once you get used to it, I think you start to realize how good it is


Sometimes I occasionally press capslock by accident on other boards, but not really. 


Over a couple weeks of swapping between boards you evolve into your godstage and you can automagically switch and adjust between keyboard layouts with ease.


TRUST ME IT HAPPENS

The backspace was honestly the most difficult part, but I promise you'll get used to it :3


EDIT: woops. The arrow keys are really intuitive when you get used to it as well - starts to feel natural after a while. I haven't looked into it much, but the Japanese version of the HHKB has arrow keys on the board :3

Ctrl where Caps usually is feels so much better. Of course, with other keyboards you can remap them. But that the HHKB has it by default is awesome. Now it really annoys me when I have to remap other keyboards to swap caps/ctrl. Difficult to go back once you have seen the light..

[TopreFan333]

All in all, the HHKB layout keeps your hands closer to the home row at all times, and I think that's the point of it. 

Initially, the FN-layer arrow keys were the hardest to get used to. It took a few weeks of occasional use to get used to that, and I'm sure bouncing back and forth between HHKB and my work or laptop keyboards didn't help the matter. I'd estimate 3-5 days of more intensive use and I'd have gotten accustomed way faster. 

Now (a year later) it's all completely second nature. Because my right hand has much less distance to travel, I find the FN-layer arrows more convenient and easier to reach than traditional arrow keys. Seems trivial, but over the dozens, hundreds (?) of times a day you make that reach, it adds up. Your hands are just closer to the home row with the HHKB most of the time, and it keeps you more on target for typing.

I edit a lot of text, and very frequently use arrow keys with modifiers on OS X to keep my hands off the mouse (option-arrow or option-shift-arrow to move or select a word at a time, for instance), and that too has become totally reflexive and does not necessitate looking down at all. I still find myself looking down to find PgUp/Down and Home/End, though. And using the HHKB more intensively over the past month, the proximity of the Delete key to the home row has also become quite welcome.

I will admit to missing the Caps Lock every once in a great while, and while I'm sure the closer Control key placement is a boon on Windows, it's much less relevant on OS X where that key usually sees infrequent use.

The only situations in which I find the HHKB layout a bit sub-optimal are when entering a lot of numbers (as with any compact or TKL), and when trying to casually use the keyboard one-handed, like to activate Dashboard or change the system volume. Casually scrolling through a website with one finger on an arrow- or page-down key is a bit less convenient as well, but definitely not a huge deal.

[ShardZer0]

It took me 2-3 days to get used to the layout, it feels pretty natural overall.

[KRKS]

To paraphrase some DT user(can't remember who it was and can't find the post right now):

Getting used to HHKB is a breeze, but getting used to the standard after that is a ****ing nightmare

[iLLucionist]

To paraphrase some DT user(can't remember who it was and can't find the post right now):

Getting used to HHKB is a breeze, but getting used to the standard after that is a ****ing nightmare

Exactly. I went back from my hhkb to my new kul es-87 with clears in the summer. I wanted to try clears and I wanted something else then topre for a change. But it was really difficult. Not because of the switch, but because of the layout. The HHKB is such a nice layout once used to it.