HHKB Pro 2 review (Topre 45 g uniform)

[chyros]

Well, here it is, hope you enjoy it!

[Altis]

Have you used the Realforce 87U keyboards? I find it much smoother and quieter, and the TKL layout and more weighting options seem to make it a better option for many.

I notice that board sounds nice and uniform. On my quite new HHKB, the center-most keys are much louder (the G,H, T, etc) and make quite a clack on the upstroke.

I'd love to try that other keyboard you have. I have never seen one here in Canada but I have a Keytronics board that feels and even sounds much like a 40g Topre switch for the most part and they are common enough and old. They aren't all equal, though, so getting a good one can be difficult.

[chyros]

Have you used the Realforce 87U keyboards? I find it much smoother and quieter, and the TKL layout and more weighting options seem to make it a better option for many.

I notice that board sounds nice and uniform. On my quite new HHKB, the center-most keys are much louder (the G,H, T, etc) and make quite a clack on the upstroke.

I'd love to try that other keyboard you have. I have never seen one here in Canada but I have a Keytronics board that feels and even sounds much like a 40g Topre switch for the most part and they are common enough and old. They aren't all equal, though, so getting a good one can be difficult.

I haven't used any other Topre board no, but I'd much prefer a proper fullsize like the 104. These space-saving layouts are a fun novelty for me, but certainly limit me while writing and gaming .

Forget Key Tronics, by the way . I find them constantly, but I've found them very disappointing considering the reputation people give them, and they're certainly no match for these BTC boards OR Topre as far as I'm concerned. I'd be greatly surprised if you can't find a BTC, by the way. They're among the most common non-standard dome boards I find (after NMB dome with slider ones).

[iLLucionist]

I haven't used any other Topre board no, but I'd much prefer a proper fullsize like the 104. These space-saving layouts are a fun novelty for me, but certainly limit me while writing and gaming .

Do you really use numpad that often?

[chyros]

I haven't used any other Topre board no, but I'd much prefer a proper fullsize like the 104. These space-saving layouts are a fun novelty for me, but certainly limit me while writing and gaming .

Do you really use numpad that often?

Yes, it's not just once in a while or anything, I use it as much as the arrow keys.

[Altis]

Have you used the Realforce 87U keyboards? I find it much smoother and quieter, and the TKL layout and more weighting options seem to make it a better option for many.

I notice that board sounds nice and uniform. On my quite new HHKB, the center-most keys are much louder (the G,H, T, etc) and make quite a clack on the upstroke.

I'd love to try that other keyboard you have. I have never seen one here in Canada but I have a Keytronics board that feels and even sounds much like a 40g Topre switch for the most part and they are common enough and old. They aren't all equal, though, so getting a good one can be difficult.

I haven't used any other Topre board no, but I'd much prefer a proper fullsize like the 104. These space-saving layouts are a fun novelty for me, but certainly limit me while writing and gaming .

Forget Key Tronics, by the way . I find them constantly, but I've found them very disappointing considering the reputation people give them, and they're certainly no match for these BTC boards OR Topre as far as I'm concerned. I'd be greatly surprised if you can't find a BTC, by the way. They're among the most common non-standard dome boards I find (after NMB dome with slider ones).

Limit you while writing and gaming? I use a numpad a lot but only for spreadsheets. For gaming, mouse space is always key and my left hand only uses so much of the keyboard.

I've never seen one of those BTC boards but they don't seem to be all that cheap on eBay and who knows which ones are any good.

Keytronics keyboards vary greatly. I came across one the other day that was a contester for worst keyboard I've ever tried. However, like I say, I have one that feels quite similar to a lightweight Topre (40g or so). It has a hard bottom-out unusual for membrane keyboards and the rebound is hard as well. This makes it sound and feel similar to Topre with a different (not as nice) cup.

It doesn't help that here, recycling centers and such never sell their keyboards... they take them in and have they're gone. I can understand why, but it's unfortunate that I'm sure many a good things are gone to waste.

[chyros]

Have you used the Realforce 87U keyboards? I find it much smoother and quieter, and the TKL layout and more weighting options seem to make it a better option for many.

I notice that board sounds nice and uniform. On my quite new HHKB, the center-most keys are much louder (the G,H, T, etc) and make quite a clack on the upstroke.

I'd love to try that other keyboard you have. I have never seen one here in Canada but I have a Keytronics board that feels and even sounds much like a 40g Topre switch for the most part and they are common enough and old. They aren't all equal, though, so getting a good one can be difficult.

I haven't used any other Topre board no, but I'd much prefer a proper fullsize like the 104. These space-saving layouts are a fun novelty for me, but certainly limit me while writing and gaming .

Forget Key Tronics, by the way . I find them constantly, but I've found them very disappointing considering the reputation people give them, and they're certainly no match for these BTC boards OR Topre as far as I'm concerned. I'd be greatly surprised if you can't find a BTC, by the way. They're among the most common non-standard dome boards I find (after NMB dome with slider ones).

Limit you while writing and gaming? I use a numpad a lot but only for spreadsheets. For gaming, mouse space is always key and my left hand only uses so much of the keyboard.

I've never seen one of those BTC boards but they don't seem to be all that cheap on eBay and who knows which ones are any good.

Keytronics keyboards vary greatly. I came across one the other day that was a contester for worst keyboard I've ever tried. However, like I say, I have one that feels quite similar to a lightweight Topre (40g or so). It has a hard bottom-out unusual for membrane keyboards and the rebound is hard as well. This makes it sound and feel similar to Topre with a different (not as nice) cup.

It doesn't help that here, recycling centers and such never sell their keyboards... they take them in and have they're gone. I can understand why, but it's unfortunate that I'm sure many a good things are gone to waste.

Don't buy a BTC off eBay. I find at least one every week so I'm sure you can find them in many offices.

I use the numpad for spreadsheets, but also for any other numerical input, and many of my hotkeys are set within the numpad.

As for what games are affected by a HHKB layout; surprisingly many. I don't play just one game, I rotate between a huge variety, so rebinding keys isn't always optimal, and surprisingly often not even possible. Some games that are affected:
-virtually everything made in the 80s and early 90s
-all games with ctrl in it, especially right ctrl
-all games with caps lock in it (a common bind for push-to-talk)
-all split-screen and similar multiplayer games (not enough room for both players)
-all games with hard-bound arrow keys in it such as Super Meat Boy and the Binding of Isaac, as well as many Flash games
-all games that use F and number keys such as Diablo 2 (skill buttons and potion buttons are the same)
-games that use the nav buttons, such as Syndicate Wars and Dungeon Keeper (no camera control) and some platformers (no view up/view down buttons)

Honestly it's surprising how many games are crippled by such a layout .

[Altis]

Don't buy a BTC off eBay. I find at least one every week so I'm sure you can find them in many offices.

I use the numpad for spreadsheets, but also for any other numerical input, and many of my hotkeys are set within the numpad.

As for what games are affected by a HHKB layout; surprisingly many. I don't play just one game, I rotate between a huge variety, so rebinding keys isn't always optimal, and surprisingly often not even possible. Some games that are affected:
-virtually everything made in the 80s and early 90s
-all games with ctrl in it, especially right ctrl
-all games with caps lock in it (a common bind for push-to-talk)
-all split-screen and similar multiplayer games (not enough room for both players)
-all games with hard-bound arrow keys in it such as Super Meat Boy and the Binding of Isaac, as well as many Flash games
-all games that use F and number keys such as Diablo 2 (skill buttons and potion buttons are the same)
-games that use the nav buttons, such as Syndicate Wars and Dungeon Keeper (no camera control) and some platformers (no view up/view down buttons)

Honestly it's surprising how many games are crippled by such a layout .

All those offices have long since gotten rid of their older keyboards, or privately recycle them... Best bet is to either frequent the thrift shops or raid the recycling bin at Best Buy (which would end poorly I suspect!).

Oh I can certainly see why a HHKB is no good for gaming. A regular TKL solves almost all of that, though!

I wonder if the white/grey keycaps sound different than the black ones on the HHKB. That's the case for the Realforce 87U, strangely enough, although the difference isn't massive, I still noticed it right away.

[iLLucionist]

I wonder if the white/grey keycaps sound different than the black ones on the HHKB. That's the case for the Realforce 87U, strangely enough, although the difference isn't massive, I still noticed it right away.

Not sure about the sound but I - and some others here - have found that the white are a bit smoother to type on. A bit more forgiving.

I've just compared my white hhkb to my black hhkb and I can't really hear a difference in sound. Just that the white is really butter smooth and the black feels a bit stiff compared to my white hhkb.

[Geroximo]

Interesting to see, that you are not as impressed as the people who are treating topre like the one switch to rule them all.
Maybe the topre hype is just people trying to come to terms with the fact, that they just spent 200$ dollars on rubberdomes 

[Altis]

Interesting to see, that you are not as impressed as the people who are treating topre like the one switch to rule them all.
Maybe the topre hype is just people trying to come to terms with the fact, that they just spent 200$ dollars on rubberdomes 

I'm not so sure... I think it just depends on what people like.

Look at all the keyboards in my signature... yet I love Topre!

[ideus]

Interesting to see, that you are not as impressed as the people who are treating topre like the one switch to rule them all.
Maybe the topre hype is just people trying to come to terms with the fact, that they just spent 200$ dollars on rubberdomes 

It is called consumer's remorse and rationalization, the repentant thinks on arguments to justify the hefty expenditure, elaborating on the bought thing features.

[iLLucionist]

Interesting to see, that you are not as impressed as the people who are treating topre like the one switch to rule them all.
Maybe the topre hype is just people trying to come to terms with the fact, that they just spent 200$ dollars on rubberdomes 

Whether you like topre or not, that's of course subjective. But technically topre is a hybrid switch + rubber AND mechanical. IT is NOT a pure rubberdome.

[ideus]

Interesting to see, that you are not as impressed as the people who are treating topre like the one switch to rule them all.
Maybe the topre hype is just people trying to come to terms with the fact, that they just spent 200$ dollars on rubberdomes 

Whether you like topre or not, that's of course subjective. But technically topre is a hybrid switch + rubber AND mechanical. IT is NOT a pure rubberdome.

The capacitive effect is by all means electrical, not mechanical, if you refer to the spring, well, that is not also part of the switch but just a helper to get the key cap back to its home position each time you type; thus, in either case, it is a rubber dome with electrical capacitive effect switch keyboard.

[chyros]

"Mechanical" is a purely invented term. It doesn't mean anything. By all means Topre is fully mechanical or not mechanical at all if you want it to be. Personally, I define "mechanical" as "non-rubber dome" and Topre as a dome with slider keyboard. Some rubber domes could be mechanical though, like Alps integrated dome, which is an actual, discrete switch with a rubber dome in it. Of course, that's just my personal definition.

[ideus]

"Mechanical" is a purely invented term. It doesn't mean anything. By all means Topre is fully mechanical or not mechanical at all if you want it to be. Personally, I define "mechanical" as "non-rubber dome" and Topre as a dome with slider keyboard. Some rubber domes could be mechanical though, like Alps integrated dome, which is an actual, discrete switch with a rubber dome in it. Of course, that's just my personal definition.

I agree that the use of the term in the keyboard community is a bit ambiguous, and tend to be manipulated to make some arguments on particular keyboards; however, mechanical has a very clear definition within physics, just for the record. In such context, rubber domes are by definition mechanical devices when they are used to produce a resistance force and a spring back for typing, that said, all rubber dome keyboards are mechanical devices.

[Altis]

"Mechanical" is a purely invented term. It doesn't mean anything. By all means Topre is fully mechanical or not mechanical at all if you want it to be. Personally, I define "mechanical" as "non-rubber dome" and Topre as a dome with slider keyboard. Some rubber domes could be mechanical though, like Alps integrated dome, which is an actual, discrete switch with a rubber dome in it. Of course, that's just my personal definition.

I agree that the use of the term in the keyboard community is a bit ambiguous, and tend to be manipulated to make some arguments on particular keyboards; however, mechanical has a very clear definition within physics, just for the record. In such context, rubber domes are by definition mechanical devices when they are used to produce a resistance force and a spring back for typing, that said, all rubber dome keyboards are mechanical devices.

Indeed. I think "mechanical" is just the term that was used to describe non-membrane keyboards. They're all electro-mechanical objects, regardless, but the name "mechanical" is just that -- a name. The term was never meant to be scientific, I suspect, but rather just distinguish between the main keyboard classes.

If we were to be more scientific/precise with the naming, we could use class terms like: leaf contacts (Cherry, Alps, space invaders), rubber dome with spring, rubber dome membrane, buckling spring, etc.

Having said that, I don't refer to Topre keyboards as "mechanical" since it misleads people to thinking they are more similar to Cherry/Alps/BS. I'd just call them Topre and when someone asks what that means, I describe them as "good feeling of oneness with cup rubber" 

[chyros]

"Mechanical" is a purely invented term. It doesn't mean anything. By all means Topre is fully mechanical or not mechanical at all if you want it to be. Personally, I define "mechanical" as "non-rubber dome" and Topre as a dome with slider keyboard. Some rubber domes could be mechanical though, like Alps integrated dome, which is an actual, discrete switch with a rubber dome in it. Of course, that's just my personal definition.

I agree that the use of the term in the keyboard community is a bit ambiguous, and tend to be manipulated to make some arguments on particular keyboards; however, mechanical has a very clear definition within physics, just for the record. In such context, rubber domes are by definition mechanical devices when they are used to produce a resistance force and a spring back for typing, that said, all rubber dome keyboards are mechanical devices.

Indeed. I think "mechanical" is just the term that was used to describe non-membrane keyboards. They're all electro-mechanical objects, regardless, but the name "mechanical" is just that -- a name. The term was never meant to be scientific, I suspect, but rather just distinguish between the main keyboard classes.

If we were to be more scientific/precise with the naming, we could use class terms like: leaf contacts (Cherry, Alps, space invaders), rubber dome with spring, rubber dome membrane, buckling spring, etc.

Having said that, I don't refer to Topre keyboards as "mechanical" since it misleads people to thinking they are more similar to Cherry/Alps/BS. I'd just call them Topre and when someone asks what that means, I describe them as "good feeling of oneness with cup rubber"  :-X2

Let's please get rid of the "metal leaf" class though. There are many contacts that use the exact same contact mechanism but not based on a "leaf" shape and they're homeless as a result. It would be much more effective to use a term that encompasses all conductive switches of that sort. I prefer my own neologism for it, "electromechanical" (a mechanically moveable contact setup) .

[ntelope]

have you tried any 55g topres?

[chyros]

Nope, this board is my one and only Topre experience so far .

[knguyen553]

I really like your voice. lol

[LiquidEvilGaming]

Interesting to see, that you are not as impressed as the people who are treating topre like the one switch to rule them all.
Maybe the topre hype is just people trying to come to terms with the fact, that they just spent 200$ dollars on rubberdomes 

Still have many of my favorite Cherry boards (Ones in signature and a few more), Still however use my Realforce now 99% of the time over any of them.

It's so easy to resell Topre boards for most of what you paid online if someone has buyers remorse it's fairly easy to get out of a Topre board.

I for one though would do it again in a heart beat, in fact i'm already planning on buying a second. In fact that is why i came to this thread to begin with as i am considering a HHKB for travel.  Just not sure how i'd feel about 45G after using 55G RF

[Rad]

What kinda casual doesn't remap their Diablo 2 hot keys?!

[chyros]

What kinda casual doesn't remap their Diablo 2 hot keys?!

What heretic does?! 1-4 & F1-F12 have worked fine for over a decade and a half .

[Murkroww]

I really like your voice. lol

same!

[rowdy]

I really like your voice. lol

same!

Welcome to Geekhack!

Did you join for the keyboards or the great voices?