Author Topic: Overpaying for Artisans- The Taboo Topic  (Read 28855 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Pdub

  • Thread Starter
  • Posts: 357
Overpaying for Artisans- The Taboo Topic
« on: Tue, 09 February 2016, 23:02:42 »
Hey guys,

Since I have joined in May of last year my knowledge of Mech Keyboards and Artsian Caps has grown so significantly. At first I though"woooo buy all the caps and all the keyboards!"

It is exciting to see some amazing functional art.

The HWS made my Binge, Click Clacks made by Clack, and Bro Caps by Bro. (And ALLL THE OTHERS!) have put hard work into making something awesome. But I feel like we have disrespected them. they put hard work into making a flawless cap with epic designs. They care to sell it to us at a reasonable cost and we take those 30-50$ caps and feel because maybe we got lucky in a sale or a give away that gives us the right to make a profit. Bro even called me out on it. I couldn't believe what I had fallen into.

I have seen the recent clacks on EBay and they are tempting but I will not bid on them. Why should someone who hoarded clacks when they were popular deserve to make a ton of money on them because the community has grown.

I'd like to see us sharing within the community to enjoy this Hobby together.

I like to collect caps because it is like art to me. Hell if Clack started making caps on the regular I'd give him 100! Rather than anyone else. I get the collecting addiction I have it too sometimes. All I want is like Hoot, a reaper, an astral BBv2 and a 3D clack. But if I saw them on eBay and they went more than 10$ over retail I will not support that type of action anymore.

I hope you guys don't get me wrong. These are also just MY opinions and mine alone and i just wanted to share since there are a lot of new people like myself.

I'd like to keep this thread friendly. If it gets out of hand I will lock it and have a mod delete it.

I hope we can do better moving forward. Remember you might make a buck or two throwing something up on eBay but it has the potential to then leave the community. We bring our hobby here, why not share it among the people that care to stay around. Imagine how happy we would all be if we could share this with everyone else.

Cheers.

My Best,
Pdub

Offline nmur

  • ಠ_ಠ
  • Posts: 1513
  • Location: Sydney
Re: Overpaying for Artisans- The Taboo Topic
« Reply #1 on: Tue, 09 February 2016, 23:21:15 »
people won't stop listing caps on ebay, and people won't stop paying lots of money for them

I have only ever bought caps at retail, from their makers, but this is my personal method and preference, and it won't stop this behaviour

Offline Pdub

  • Thread Starter
  • Posts: 357
Re: Overpaying for Artisans- The Taboo Topic
« Reply #2 on: Tue, 09 February 2016, 23:22:47 »

people won't stop listing caps on ebay, and people won't stop paying lots of money for them

I have only ever bought caps at retail, from their makers, but this is my personal method and preference, and it won't stop this behaviour

No sadly it won't. Hopefully it might reach out to a few. Glad your doing that though. That's awesome, Nmur!

Offline romevi

  • Formerly romevi
  • * Exalted Elder
  • Posts: 8920
  • Location: The Windy City
Re: Overpaying for Artisans- The Taboo Topic
« Reply #3 on: Tue, 09 February 2016, 23:31:20 »
All the caps I have were purchased from the artist, and one was gifted to me. I refuse to buy aftermarket caps. There will always be tons of caps in the future, and in colorways we want.

I don't understand buying artisan caps for the ridiculous prices. I could get whole keysets or even kustoms for those prices. I've heard it's like paying for a painting or whatnot in that the prices are astronomical, but those are singular paintings done years ago. Artisans are made out of a mold and several at a time. I'd say the mold is worth more than the cap.
I've purchased printings from local artists and the thought of turning it over for a higher price is silly and extremely disrespectful to the artist. If they knew I'd do something like that they wouldn't sell me prints anymore.

The caps are a representation of the artist and their artistic talent, and to obtain them just for fodder or cash is disrespectful. Is that going to stop other people? No. Some enter this hobby knowing the expensive costs of mechanical keyboards and looking for ways to fund that. Artisan keycaps, unfortunately, provide that avenue.

That isn't to say selling an artisan at auction is bad entirely; there are sometimes good causes behind it.

Anyway, that's my rant. I've seen many discussions on this recently and have tried to stay out, but I guess I just couldn't bottle it anymore. I have more to say, but I think I'll end it here.
« Last Edit: Tue, 09 February 2016, 23:33:03 by romevi »

Offline Bromono

  • Wanabe Cicerone
  • * Destiny Supporter
  • Posts: 1115
  • Location: The Alamo's Basement
  • HHKB > Your Opinion
Re: Overpaying for Artisans- The Taboo Topic
« Reply #4 on: Tue, 09 February 2016, 23:35:14 »
I admit to buying 2 keys above retail.

I believe one was $80 and $160 for a set (Fair prices in today's market for sure). But they where caps I really wanted at the time and I had some disposable income.

I have only sold one cap out right. It was my blood reaper and I sold it close to retail ($50); because the guy was a bro and hooked me up with an awesome trade.

I see this as a hobby and I enjoy the community. If I spend a little more money then usual to get something I want, I am fine with that. I personally wont gouge my prices to make money.

I am not here to make money. This hobby has had the quite opposite effect on my wallet. I am here to look at dank pictures of keyboards and caps and maybe scroll through some drama once in awhile.

Unless the cap is being sold for a genuine purpose to raise money, I think caps selling for $500+ is silly.



Edit:

I really think is is relevant.

http://elitedaily.com/life/the-unattainable-urge-to-always-want-what-we-cant-have/
« Last Edit: Tue, 09 February 2016, 23:47:50 by Bromono »

Offline FrostyToast

  • Litshoard
  • * Exquisite Elder
  • Posts: 2368
  • Location: Canada
Re: Overpaying for Artisans- The Taboo Topic
« Reply #5 on: Tue, 09 February 2016, 23:56:37 »
If someone comes up to me and waves $500 at me asking for a lamp I have, then sure they can take it.
Would you want to keep the lamp if you were given that offer? Who knows, maybe it's a damn good lamp.
However, I would be happy that I have money and that person is happy they have a lamp. Maybe the IKEA I bought it from would be offended, but hell if I know, and hell if they care to know.

Now if a friend made a lamp for me and I sold it to that man, then we might have a problem.
My lamp making friend was the one who should get the money, right? He made the lamp that was worth that $500. Would it be just to sell the lamp then send the money to my friend? Plus, that lamp was a generous gift, given with the intent that you would use it for a long time.
I still don't know how to properly look at this situation though. My friend clearly didn't need that lamp since he gave it away. That man would be disappointed to not have that lamp. I might be disappointed to have a thinner wallet. Shouldn't the best outcome be from selling the lamp?
Quote from: elton5354
I don't need anymore keyboards

Offline Babysun

  • Posts: 2
  • Location: Seoul, Korea
  • From Detroit. Moved to Seattle. Now in Korea.
Re: Overpaying for Artisans- The Taboo Topic
« Reply #6 on: Tue, 09 February 2016, 23:58:39 »
This kind of thing happens to the same extent in the sneaker world. It's pretty annoying. It sucks seeing people buy things just to make a quick buck instead of enjoying them. I don't really see a problem with overpaying for things. If someone has the money to spend on something they want more power to them. However, it does contribute to people buying things to make money instead of enjoying them.

Offline gain

  • Posts: 90
  • Location: Australia, VIC
Re: Overpaying for Artisans- The Taboo Topic
« Reply #7 on: Wed, 10 February 2016, 00:00:00 »
As someone in the process of slowly off-loading old console imports, I'm always left wondering just how much worse the prices will get, games that once fetched $60 USD now $300+ in the right condition.

Where does it end? I wonder the same for artisans.

One would suggest when the demand ends, but that appears to be in no short supply.

Offline romevi

  • Formerly romevi
  • * Exalted Elder
  • Posts: 8920
  • Location: The Windy City
Re: Overpaying for Artisans- The Taboo Topic
« Reply #8 on: Wed, 10 February 2016, 00:05:35 »
As someone in the process of slowly off-loading old console imports, I'm always left wondering just how much worse the prices will get, games that once fetched $60 USD now $300+ in the right condition.

Where does it end? I wonder the same for artisans.

One would suggest when the demand ends, but that appears to be in no short supply.

What games ya got?

Offline gain

  • Posts: 90
  • Location: Australia, VIC
Re: Overpaying for Artisans- The Taboo Topic
« Reply #9 on: Wed, 10 February 2016, 00:12:38 »
As someone in the process of slowly off-loading old console imports, I'm always left wondering just how much worse the prices will get, games that once fetched $60 USD now $300+ in the right condition.

Where does it end? I wonder the same for artisans.

One would suggest when the demand ends, but that appears to be in no short supply.

What games ya got?

Mostly old shmups, sold a great deal already. I've still gotta burn through the Sega Saturn lot. The two more valuable ones I'm holding on to right now are Batsugun and Battle Garegga. I try to be fair with my pricing, I consider what I paid, market rate and shoot for whatever seems fair, at least that's how I handled my PS2 games.

Past a certain point, it's almost easier just to buy the Arcade PCB lol, that was almost the case for a PS2 port of a game called Ibara.

Lots of people hitting their mid 20's, disposable incomes... Recipe for disaster on wallets world-wide  :D

Offline Dongulator

  • Posts: 361
  • Location: Seattle,Wa
  • ..
Re: Overpaying for Artisans- The Taboo Topic
« Reply #10 on: Wed, 10 February 2016, 00:15:33 »
Don't care about cost. If there is something I want, I will try my best to get it. If it's something over my budget, I stop there. In my mind, money is not the issue. I want my board to look just the right way, at any monetary cost. As long as it's in my budget.
Lucky for me I like simple.
Thank you for reading my post

Offline romevi

  • Formerly romevi
  • * Exalted Elder
  • Posts: 8920
  • Location: The Windy City
Re: Overpaying for Artisans- The Taboo Topic
« Reply #11 on: Wed, 10 February 2016, 00:15:44 »
As someone in the process of slowly off-loading old console imports, I'm always left wondering just how much worse the prices will get, games that once fetched $60 USD now $300+ in the right condition.

Where does it end? I wonder the same for artisans.

One would suggest when the demand ends, but that appears to be in no short supply.

What games ya got?

Mostly old shmups, sold a great deal already. I've still gotta burn through the Sega Saturn lot. The two more valuable ones I'm holding on to right now are Batsugun and Battle Garegga. I try to be fair with my pricing, I consider what I paid, market rate and shoot for whatever seems fair, at least that's how I handled my PS2 games.

Past a certain point, it's almost easier just to buy the Arcade PCB lol, that was almost the case for a PS2 port of a game called Ibara.

Lots of people hitting their mid 20's, disposable incomes... Recipe for disaster on wallets world-wide  :D

It's been a year since I've been in the retro seen, and shmups always eluded me. I never was very good at them so I stayed away!

That said, I've been waiting 'til the day I got a Japanese Saturn and PC-Engine Duo RX.

Offline 1swt2gs

  • Posts: 622
  • Location: CA
  • DOGE
Re: Overpaying for Artisans- The Taboo Topic
« Reply #12 on: Wed, 10 February 2016, 00:17:57 »
I am relatively new here and my collection is growing quite quickly!

I am also glad to say I have never paid over retail for a cap. I have gotten a few gifts from very generous members who have reached out to me just because they noticed my presence in/around the forum.

I don't come out to say this often, but if you are nice around the forums OG's will notice you and you will secure those nice artisans soon enough who share the same mentality. No need to pay ridiculous prices. Paying those ridiculous prices in the first place are the reason why caps are so inflated. (:
Such artisan, many caps, very keyboard.

Always searching for Bro caps! 

1swt2gs classifieds!


Offline suicidal_orange

  • * Global Moderator
  • Posts: 3854
  • Location: England
Re: Overpaying for Artisans- The Taboo Topic
« Reply #13 on: Wed, 10 February 2016, 03:08:05 »
I have money and could buy caps at crazy prices to make my board look just right, but then what?  I wouldn't get excited when the next sale actually has some orange in, and I wouldn't need to talk to people about possible trades.  It would turn this hobby the same as happened on head-fi where I found my "endgame" setup and promptly lost interest.

For me at least half the fun is in the search and a cap that took effort to get and has a story behind it is worth so much more than the ones I bought.  But even buying from sales is fun - the anticipation of the sneak-peak pics, the sense of community around therapy/sales threads and the mass sharing of joy and commiseration when it's all over.

Alternately you could skip the meaningful stuff and throw money at ebay - how dull.


On the other side I am guilty of buying caps I don't want, of depriving people who genuinely want them - just the once and I paid to do it (Farewell V2), but I did.  Those caps hang over me like a toxic cloud and I just want them gone, but between the ever increasing number of "need it now!" newbies who will "finish" their board and be gone and the evergreen scalpers I'm reluctant to put them up for sale or give them away, so they are still here taunting me.  Never again.
120/100g linear Zealio R1  
GMK Hyperfuse
'Split everything' perfection  
MX Clear
SA Hack'd by Geeks     
EasyAVR mod
MX Brown 30g, HHKBish
Vortex OEM PBT
for See how the other half lives challenge!

Offline azhdar

  • Praise the AZERTY god
  • Posts: 2385
  • Location: France
  • 65% Enlighted
Re: Overpaying for Artisans- The Taboo Topic
« Reply #14 on: Wed, 10 February 2016, 03:20:54 »
It's up to anybody to find hapiness in the way they want.
From put stuff up the butt, other pay 500$ for 20g of sculpted plastic.

I only trade, I wish I could get the colorway I like (very few) each time they get on sale, but I'm left to participate sale for trade value: I got a flux grey clack that I didn't even unboxed knowing I don't like clack skulls, I just traded it straight away for something I like.

Offline xondat

  • i'm not a star
  • * Maker
  • Posts: 5288
  • Location: United Kingdom
Re: Overpaying for Artisans- The Taboo Topic
« Reply #15 on: Wed, 10 February 2016, 03:34:20 »
I've resold all but two of the artisans I've bought directly from the vendor. I realized I didn't personally like them too much, so I sold them at retail or under so that someone else, that may of missed out, can have it.

A couple of days ago, just as a test, I put two Bro's up for $75 for a couple of hours, and I had 6 people saying them wanted to buy them. I ****ing hate that. ANYTHING shouldn't sell for more than retail.

We can take Hoff's kind gesture from yesterday where he 'sold' the BBv2 for $300. I put sold in quotes as it was more of a donation for a great cause, but on the outside to people that may not know that he was doing this, it makes the price look insane and others may copy. I think he should of made it more clear that they are simply donating $300, and will receive the V2 as a gift for their outstanding kindness.

I also think buying and reselling artisans is kind of taboo - admittally, I bought my Bro's in the hopes of trading for my favorite design, the BBv2. It's what got me into keyboards and I see it as a massive target of mine to acquire the first BBv2 I saw. It's probably never going to happen though, due to artificial inflation, which has put the cap at $200 sell value. Sucks, but that's what it is.

Offline pr0ximity

  • Posts: 2559
  • Location: Vacationland
Re: Overpaying for Artisans- The Taboo Topic
« Reply #16 on: Wed, 10 February 2016, 05:35:59 »
I appreciate you not contributing to the ridiculous inflation of prices, but this is far from a "taboo topic" around here. It's closer to a dead horse that's been beat into a fine paste.
| Flickr | Current: Koala/GSKT-00/JaneV2CE/Whale/Pro1/356mini/1390120/F107/3101

Offline Pdub

  • Thread Starter
  • Posts: 357
Re: Overpaying for Artisans- The Taboo Topic
« Reply #17 on: Wed, 10 February 2016, 06:14:53 »
Thanks for all the responses guys! Here is my novel reply. (not really a novel) It just looks big.... THATs WHAT SHE SAID.

This kind of thing happens to the same extent in the sneaker world. It's pretty annoying. It sucks seeing people buy things just to make a quick buck instead of enjoying them. I don't really see a problem with overpaying for things. If someone has the money to spend on something they want more power to them. However, it does contribute to people buying things to make money instead of enjoying them.

People just see that they can make a buck and run with it. SMH.

If someone comes up to me and waves $500 at me asking for a lamp I have, then sure they can take it.
Would you want to keep the lamp if you were given that offer? Who knows, maybe it's a damn good lamp.
However, I would be happy that I have money and that person is happy they have a lamp. Maybe the IKEA I bought it from would be offended, but hell if I know, and hell if they care to know.

Now if a friend made a lamp for me and I sold it to that man, then we might have a problem.
My lamp making friend was the one who should get the money, right? He made the lamp that was worth that $500. Would it be just to sell the lamp then send the money to my friend? Plus, that lamp was a generous gift, given with the intent that you would use it for a long time.
I still don't know how to properly look at this situation though. My friend clearly didn't need that lamp since he gave it away. That man would be disappointed to not have that lamp. I might be disappointed to have a thinner wallet. Shouldn't the best outcome be from selling the lamp?

SO. I can totally understand your point. But look at it the other way around. What if you made caps and sold them for 15$ and in a year everyone that had them turned around and sold them for 200$. All that money not going to you. Its like HKP almost has it right, flooood the market with all his caps and no one blinks an eveyr about buying it under retail. We have guys who care about making special artisans. Why not reward them for what they have done, not some slug who just camped a thread to make 170$.

Don't care about cost. If there is something I want, I will try my best to get it. If it's something over my budget, I stop there. In my mind, money is not the issue. I want my board to look just the right way, at any monetary cost. As long as it's in my budget.
Lucky for me I like simple.

I know what you mean man. I want a Blue and Purple Cosmonaut to make my deep space set SOOOO bad. But I can't imagine not giving that money to Booper. Just becuase you have the money doesn't nessissarily mean you should support the people scalping the market and artisits.

As someone in the process of slowly off-loading old console imports, I'm always left wondering just how much worse the prices will get, games that once fetched $60 USD now $300+ in the right condition.

Where does it end? I wonder the same for artisans.

One would suggest when the demand ends, but that appears to be in no short supply.

As the community grow the demand increases. I have seen a collection of over a 100 BBv2 and Clacks. I can see why guys hang on to them. I just hope they don't decide they an make $10,000 selling off their collection to people that "just want them" and see them leave the community.

I am relatively new here and my collection is growing quite quickly!

I am also glad to say I have never paid over retail for a cap. I have gotten a few gifts from very generous members who have reached out to me just because they noticed my presence in/around the forum.

I don't come out to say this often, but if you are nice around the forums OG's will notice you and you will secure those nice artisans soon enough who share the same mentality. No need to pay ridiculous prices. Paying those ridiculous prices in the first place are the reason why caps are so inflated. (:

Yes a few members are very nice to share and sell at retail. They are good guys and it is appreciated.

I have money and could buy caps at crazy prices to make my board look just right, but then what?  I wouldn't get excited when the next sale actually has some orange in, and I wouldn't need to talk to people about possible trades.  It would turn this hobby the same as happened on head-fi where I found my "endgame" setup and promptly lost interest.

For me at least half the fun is in the search and a cap that took effort to get and has a story behind it is worth so much more than the ones I bought.  But even buying from sales is fun - the anticipation of the sneak-peak pics, the sense of community around therapy/sales threads and the mass sharing of joy and commiseration when it's all over.

Alternately you could skip the meaningful stuff and throw money at ebay - how dull.

On the other side I am guilty of buying caps I don't want, of depriving people who genuinely want them - just the once and I paid to do it (Farewell V2), but I did.  Those caps hang over me like a toxic cloud and I just want them gone, but between the ever increasing number of "need it now!" newbies who will "finish" their board and be gone and the evergreen scalpers I'm reluctant to put them up for sale or give them away, so they are still here taunting me.  Never again.
I am too. Buying caps I don't LOVE. In hopes I can trade for a Clack, a Bro Cap, HWS, or a Booper.

I appreciate you not contributing to the ridiculous inflation of prices, but this is far from a "taboo topic" around here. It's closer to a dead horse that's been beat into a fine paste.

Very True.

Offline Pdub

  • Thread Starter
  • Posts: 357
Re: Overpaying for Artisans- The Taboo Topic
« Reply #18 on: Wed, 10 February 2016, 06:19:36 »
More
I admit to buying 2 keys above retail.

I believe one was $80 and $160 for a set (Fair prices in today's market for sure). But they where caps I really wanted at the time and I had some disposable income.

I have only sold one cap out right. It was my blood reaper and I sold it close to retail ($50); because the guy was a bro and hooked me up with an awesome trade.

I see this as a hobby and I enjoy the community. If I spend a little more money then usual to get something I want, I am fine with that. I personally wont gouge my prices to make money.

I am not here to make money. This hobby has had the quite opposite effect on my wallet. I am here to look at dank pictures of keyboards and caps and maybe scroll through some drama once in awhile.

Unless the cap is being sold for a genuine purpose to raise money, I think caps selling for $500+ is silly.


Edit:

I really think is is relevant.

http://elitedaily.com/life/the-unattainable-urge-to-always-want-what-we-cant-have/

Very relevant to this and relationships in general. I would recommend everyone take a quick read. Thanks, Bromono!

Offline 64rky

  • * Esteemed Elder
  • Posts: 1168
  • Location: Orange
Re: Overpaying for Artisans- The Taboo Topic
« Reply #19 on: Wed, 10 February 2016, 06:50:30 »
My very first clack was gifted to me,  how kind of that member,  I paid it forward,  most definitely.  But since then,  all the clacks that I have bought have been on the secondary market or in private sales,  from pretty well known members in this community. I have also traded for a few clacks,  but it's hard to trade for clacks for anything but clacks...  I've managed it once,  and it was kind of like buying ad the retail price of what I traded was high.

What I am trying to say is everyone sells artisans,  you can't stop it,  especially when clack sales are so hard to get into. We are lucky that bro makes it a bit easier.

Buying on the secondary market,  although inflated,  is some people's only chance.

Offline dgneo

  • Supervillain
  • * Curator
  • Posts: 2093
Re: Overpaying for Artisans- The Taboo Topic
« Reply #20 on: Wed, 10 February 2016, 07:11:28 »
I've resold all but two of the artisans I've bought directly from the vendor. I realized I didn't personally like them too much, so I sold them at retail or under so that someone else, that may of missed out, can have it.

A couple of days ago, just as a test, I put two Bro's up for $75 for a couple of hours, and I had 6 people saying them wanted to buy them. I ****ing hate that. ANYTHING shouldn't sell for more than retail.

We can take Hoff's kind gesture from yesterday where he 'sold' the BBv2 for $300. I put sold in quotes as it was more of a donation for a great cause, but on the outside to people that may not know that he was doing this, it makes the price look insane and others may copy. I think he should of made it more clear that they are simply donating $300, and will receive the V2 as a gift for their outstanding kindness.

I also think buying and reselling artisans is kind of taboo - admittally, I bought my Bro's in the hopes of trading for my favorite design, the BBv2. It's what got me into keyboards and I see it as a massive target of mine to acquire the first BBv2 I saw. It's probably never going to happen though, due to artificial inflation, which has put the cap at $200 sell value. Sucks, but that's what it is.

How much clearer could he make it? It was in both the title and the first sentence...

Offline mobbo

  • u fk
  • * Exquisite Elder
  • Posts: 1135
  • Location: Canada
Re: Overpaying for Artisans- The Taboo Topic
« Reply #21 on: Wed, 10 February 2016, 07:34:33 »
I've bought two caps above retail.

One was a BBV2 from Bunny when he had a sale to help a friend. The other was my KBK that someone who was leaving the scene approached me about.

Will I do it again? I hope not. I've honestly been itching to grab a Clack just so I can enter that tier of trading. I've tried many combinations of trade offers with existing artisans, keycap sets, even keyboards - but nobody wants to seem to trade a Clack for anything but a Clack. I don't want to beat this point in to the ground, as I spoke a little bit about it in the Clack Valuation thread. Like all of you, I enter all sales/raffles I'm interested in, and I would prefer to trade caps. Unfortunately I'm not a trade-up or down kind of person and I just wait until someone has what I am looking for and throw everything I possibly can at them until they feel the trade is fair. I usually don't like haggling or negotiating prices even, and least of all, pestering people or PMing people to persuade them out of caps.

I understand that my frustration is simply impatience. I have only been part of this community for about five months now. Most people who are trading Clacks and BBv2's have been around for years. It takes time to build a collection and to break that barrier to entry for those who weren't able to participate in the original sales. I suspect we don't even see a large portion of users who just outright purchased all their end game stuff because they had no reason to stick around anymore!

As suicidal_orange said, the fun is in the journey not the destination. The people I've met, discussing what caps we want, helping each other out, congratulating each other on raffle wins, consoling each other on losses, and learning about the background behind the caps. You lose this experience by writing a fat cheque for a cap. Sure, you get the cap. Then what? It sits in some drawer or some board that nobody gets to see or hear about until it pops up on Ebay again.

I try to sell all my caps for retail, do trades that everyone is happy with without thinking of value, and do a giveaway every once in a while - because that's what I would have liked to see as a newcomer trying to enter the artisan game. I know how high that barrier is and so I wouldn't dare do anything to raise it yet again for future members.
« Last Edit: Wed, 10 February 2016, 07:36:24 by mobbo »
Quote from: Binge
crumping is like twerking but it's all about getting low with force.

Offline MiTo

  • Banned
  • Posts: 832
  • にんたい
Re: Overpaying for Artisans- The Taboo Topic
« Reply #22 on: Wed, 10 February 2016, 08:03:51 »
The only thing that bothers me are the Johnnies out there joining every single raffle they can to hoard the crap out of the maker just to gather stupid trade value. But it's partially fault of the makers, since they allow it to happen in the first place. KeyKollectiv, for example, who the hell needs 5 Koala keycaps? Why not limit to one or two per person? 9 out of 10 times people will make an entry with the Koala they want and 4 other good ones just to trade. Do you wanna know why? I'm gonna tell you why:

[H] 5 Kill-Wallas, 3 Snackeys [W] Any BBV2

"I don't like them as much as I thought I would, so I'm trading now."

Yeah sure, two days after the actual sale. And the price of that? 4 people somewhere around the world disappointed that they couldn't get a single useful Koala, because the ****head Johhny hoarded the one he wanted and 4 useless extras. And the worst part is that Johnny did that for absolutely nothing since nobody is gonna trade a Bro for a load of KK's. Another sad thing is that instead of making 5 people happy, KeyKollectiv decided to make a single one, since they allowed people to hoard in the first place. I'm using KK as an example, this is happening with every maker out there. Read again: I am using KeyKollectiv as an example.

I'm not salty (I won the only one I entried for and gave it to another member, Sunshine MX) it was an example and such situation is also affecting other makers. This is not my problem anyway, makers should create whatever rules they want. If they feel like 5 per person is the ideal rule, I'm absolutely no one to say otherwise. Makers should start their raffles in whatever way they want, but I'm pointing out an issue with the model currently being used by some of them.

It's even worse with Bro Caps. Absolutely everyone will join any single sale he makes, even though they doesn't even remotely want a certain cap. I'm pretty sure that many people joined the TR8-0R Sale just to snipe the keycap and trade it afterwards. I'm absolutely sure that many people dislike the design but joined anyway just to have something made by Bro, which has relevant value in the trade market.

About buying and selling artisans at a huge price, I don't see any problem with it. This is basic supply and demand in full action. Most people just happen to want nice robots, astronauts and skulls, they don't want to spend hours and hours on the Internet as if they were on a quest for the holy grail. You gotta face the reality. The community grew, and some people don't give a damn about "supporting the maker" or "the community members". They are just costumers looking for a cool product. It's a very disappointing reality that absolutely nobody has the power to change. If you enjoying selling and buying at retail and 1:1 trading, that's okay, I do too, but don't condemn people who buy and sell at high prices, because again, that's just supply and demand in full force and most people don't want to engage on a mission for a cube of plastic.



Offline riotonthebay

  • Cherry Peasant
  • * Destiny Supporter
  • Posts: 2048
  • Location: Raleigh, NC
  • keycult.io
Re: Overpaying for Artisans- The Taboo Topic
« Reply #23 on: Wed, 10 February 2016, 08:23:37 »
First, we are all privileged. Different levels of such, sure, but anyone who owns a $100+ keyboard and has the means to buy $30+ single keycaps comes from a position of privilege. I therefore reject any argument against high aftermarket prices on the basis of price exclusivity -- give me a freaking break, I don't begrudge art collectors for paying hundreds of thousands to millions for art that I'd love to own on the basis that they're perpetuating art elitism by price.

Second, high aftermarket prices is the only thing that makes it worth getting some keycaps out of some people's hands. I personally do not sell my keycaps, either at retail or at high aftermarket prices. I don't sell at aftermarket prices because I'm friends with Bro -- I think FrostyToast's metaphor about the lamp is quite apt here -- and I don't sell at retail because it's simply not worth my time. Many people are the exact same way. Perhaps I'm even more privileged than many here, but I live in NYC and the $30 I'd get from a BBv2 at retail would be gone in a few cappuccinos. Many are the same way, and the way to overcome that for some is to offer more money such that it makes it worth it to sell.

This brings me to my last point: high aftermarket prices do not make it harder for you to get a cap at retail. If no one sold caps at aftermarket prices, no one would sell caps. It literally isn't worth their time. The situation would be precisely the same, except that a few people would be poorer and others wouldn't have caps they wanted.

Now, of course, there are exceptions to this rule. Folks do occasionally sell caps at retail -- I recently bought an Unconscious Skull for $50, and I am extremely grateful to the person who gave me that chance. I do not ever expect it, however, and I wouldn't be surprised if a similar opportunity never arises again.

Finally, none of the above applies to people who seek only to profit from this enterprise, entering sales only to flip caps or take advantage of the market. However, at some point after, you're absolutely welcome to do whatever you'd like, and if someone offers you hundreds for that tasty cap you lucked out on, more power to you.
« Last Edit: Wed, 10 February 2016, 08:25:30 by riotonthebay »

Offline 3K

  • Posts: 279
  • Location: Germany
Re: Overpaying for Artisans- The Taboo Topic
« Reply #24 on: Wed, 10 February 2016, 08:51:49 »
It's even worse with Bro Caps. Absolutely everyone will join any single sale he makes, even though they doesn't even remotely want a certain cap. I'm pretty sure that many people joined the TR8-0R Sale just to snipe the keycap and trade it afterwards. I'm absolutely sure that many people dislike the design but joined anyway just to have something made by Bro, which has relevant value in the trade market.

That's true. Personally I joined the Cherokey buy for example just for the sake of owning a bro, and with the hope to break this metaphorical barrier, between collectors (or artisan owners in general) and those who want to become such. I mean if you see these little guys everywhere, being shown on boards, or sold for 200% retails at least, the attractiveness of similar product is considerably increased. I didn't even think about it and just joined the GB asap. (I didn't even had the patience to read to the part, where it states that it is a GB and no first come forst serve type of sale.)

And after not having any luck in Binge raffles, I gladly paid more than retail for one of his caps, only slightly more though.

I think the reason for people to act like this is the rarity of the artisans - some would use every opportunity to get into business.

                   Model M '88    | Model M SSK '87 | HHKB P2  | Zowie FK1

Offline DAVYtm

  • #dateless
  • Posts: 289
  • Location: NY
Re: Overpaying for Artisans- The Taboo Topic
« Reply #25 on: Wed, 10 February 2016, 13:26:23 »
About buying and selling artisans at a huge price, I don't see any problem with it. This is basic supply and demand in full action. Most people just happen to want nice robots, astronauts and skulls, they don't want to spend hours and hours on the Internet as if they were on a quest for the holy grail. You gotta face the reality. The community grew, and some people don't give a damn about "supporting the maker" or "the community members". They are just costumers looking for a cool product. It's a very disappointing reality that absolutely nobody has the power to change. If you enjoying selling and buying at retail and 1:1 trading, that's okay, I do too, but don't condemn people who buy and sell at high prices, because again, that's just supply and demand in full force and most people don't want to engage on a mission for a cube of plastic.

100% agree with this. I don't agree with buying at high prices and don't do it myself, but I can understand why people do. I think having morality police who condemn people who pay above retail is a bad way to tackle the issue. When demand far outstrips supply, there isn't much to do to stop others from paying what they believe an artisan is worth. I don't really think there is a solution here; people just need to come to terms that as the community grows this type of behavior will become a lot more prevalent.

Offline demik

  • Pronounced "demique"
  • Posts: 11159
Re: Overpaying for Artisans- The Taboo Topic
« Reply #26 on: Wed, 10 February 2016, 13:32:02 »
Anything not free is over paying
No, hes not around. How that sound to ya? Jot it down.

Offline nubbinator

  • Dabbler Supreme
  • * Maker
  • Posts: 8657
  • Location: Orange County, CA
  • Model M "connoisseur"
Re: Overpaying for Artisans- The Taboo Topic
« Reply #27 on: Wed, 10 February 2016, 13:40:23 »
Anything not free is over paying

Hook me up brah.

Offline romevi

  • Formerly romevi
  • * Exalted Elder
  • Posts: 8920
  • Location: The Windy City
Re: Overpaying for Artisans- The Taboo Topic
« Reply #28 on: Wed, 10 February 2016, 13:41:15 »
Anything not free is over paying
What about a $200 meme keyboard?

Offline FLFisherman

  • * Elevated Elder
  • Posts: 2243
  • Location: FL
  • I'd rather be fishing.
Re: Overpaying for Artisans- The Taboo Topic
« Reply #29 on: Wed, 10 February 2016, 13:43:12 »
Anything not free is over paying
What about a $200 meme keyboard?

Ooooooooooo.

Don't worry. I'll be upgrading it so it's actually worth that price. Gonna trick it out with some bling glitter and stickers and stuff.

Offline crickclackman

  • Posts: 44
Re: Overpaying for Artisans- The Taboo Topic
« Reply #30 on: Wed, 10 February 2016, 14:34:17 »
You shouldn't judge people that spend over retail if that item is rare.

It is their money, not yours.

Offline tangkims

  • Posts: 54
Re: Overpaying for Artisans- The Taboo Topic
« Reply #31 on: Wed, 10 February 2016, 14:41:34 »
You shouldn't judge people that spend over retail if that item is rare.

It is their money, not yours.

Yeah.. I'm gonna agree with this guy... If someone has thousands of dollars on disposable income and you don't and he's willing to pay for it... he's not really breaking any laws... Maybe he makes 6 figures a year and he can splurge on his hobby.

That said, I think reselling caps for a huge profit... is a pretty douche move though.

Offline romevi

  • Formerly romevi
  • * Exalted Elder
  • Posts: 8920
  • Location: The Windy City
Re: Overpaying for Artisans- The Taboo Topic
« Reply #32 on: Wed, 10 February 2016, 14:44:15 »


You shouldn't judge people that spend over retail if that item is rare.

It is their money, not yours.

Yeah.. I'm gonna agree with this guy... If someone has thousands of dollars on disposable income and you don't and he's willing to pay for it... he's not really breaking any laws... Maybe he makes 6 figures a year and he can splurge on his hobby.

That said, I think reselling caps for a huge profit... is a pretty douche move though.


You can't pay hundreds on a cap if someone isn't flipping it for that price.

Offline Dongulator

  • Posts: 361
  • Location: Seattle,Wa
  • ..
Re: Overpaying for Artisans- The Taboo Topic
« Reply #33 on: Wed, 10 February 2016, 15:14:12 »
Anyone else hope the clacks on ebay go for under 200$? I sure do, the more clack's on ebay hopefully the less aftermarket value.

edit: People might not see them as such a rare item then.
Thank you for reading my post

Offline Pdub

  • Thread Starter
  • Posts: 357
Re: Overpaying for Artisans- The Taboo Topic
« Reply #34 on: Wed, 10 February 2016, 15:16:42 »

Anyone else hope the clacks on ebay go for under 200$? I sure do, the more clack's on ebay hopefully the less aftermarket value.

edit: People might not see them as such a rare item then.
Yes. But what are the chances the disappearing outside of our community all together making prices even higher.

Offline Dongulator

  • Posts: 361
  • Location: Seattle,Wa
  • ..
Re: Overpaying for Artisans- The Taboo Topic
« Reply #35 on: Wed, 10 February 2016, 15:19:10 »

Anyone else hope the clacks on ebay go for under 200$? I sure do, the more clack's on ebay hopefully the less aftermarket value.

edit: People might not see them as such a rare item then.
Yes. But what are the chances the disappearing outside of our community all together making prices even higher.

Higher than I would like them to be.
Thank you for reading my post

Offline appleonama

  • Trollo en USA
  • * Exquisite Elder
  • Posts: 1326
Re: Overpaying for Artisans- The Taboo Topic
« Reply #36 on: Wed, 10 February 2016, 15:19:57 »
Selling my clacks at retail pm me.

More
just kidding

I've paid an inflated price 2 times for a clack(not as bad a price as it is today) and it was worth it to be honest. With the insanely crazy bidders on eBay the price of my clacks "went up". Either way I don't think I will sell them I like the novelty of having a clack they're cool and add a bit a spark to my board but in the end it is just a tiny ****ty plastic.  ^-^

Offline Dongulator

  • Posts: 361
  • Location: Seattle,Wa
  • ..
Re: Overpaying for Artisans- The Taboo Topic
« Reply #37 on: Wed, 10 February 2016, 15:22:39 »
Selling my clacks at retail pm me.

More
just kidding

I've paid an inflated price 2 times for a clack(not as bad a price as it is today) and it was worth it to be honest. With the insanely crazy bidders on eBay the price of my clacks "went up". Either way I don't think I will sell them I like the novelty of having a clack they're cool and add a bit a spark to my board but in the end it is just a tiny ****ty plastic.  ^-^

PM'd  ;)
Thank you for reading my post

Offline appleonama

  • Trollo en USA
  • * Exquisite Elder
  • Posts: 1326
Re: Overpaying for Artisans- The Taboo Topic
« Reply #38 on: Wed, 10 February 2016, 15:23:47 »
You shouldn't judge people that spend over retail if that item is rare.

It is their money, not yours.

Yeah.. I'm gonna agree with this guy... If someone has thousands of dollars on disposable income and you don't and he's willing to pay for it... he's not really breaking any laws... Maybe he makes 6 figures a year and he can splurge on his hobby.

That said, I think reselling caps for a huge profit... is a pretty douche move though.

I agree however I envy these people being able to splurge money on this hobby. But who am I to judge they probably worked their asses off to obtain the job they have now to get the income they have today. I did a bit of detective work and We have Microsoft engineers, software engineers, doctors, and other stem career people among us. So they are the ones who are splurging I can't wait to finish school...

Offline appleonama

  • Trollo en USA
  • * Exquisite Elder
  • Posts: 1326
Re: Overpaying for Artisans- The Taboo Topic
« Reply #39 on: Wed, 10 February 2016, 15:24:11 »
Selling my clacks at retail pm me.

More
just kidding

I've paid an inflated price 2 times for a clack(not as bad a price as it is today) and it was worth it to be honest. With the insanely crazy bidders on eBay the price of my clacks "went up". Either way I don't think I will sell them I like the novelty of having a clack they're cool and add a bit a spark to my board but in the end it is just a tiny ****ty plastic.  ^-^



PM'd  ;)
Click the """"more""""

Offline btctopre

  • Posts: 1053
Re: Overpaying for Artisans- The Taboo Topic
« Reply #40 on: Wed, 10 February 2016, 15:31:12 »
dear sirs and madams, i have been triggered-
disposable is after-tax
discretionary is disposable, less necessities

so you'd be using discretionary income to purchase your keyboard hats (unless you're opting to sacrifice your well-being for them).

Offline MiTo

  • Banned
  • Posts: 832
  • にんたい
Re: Overpaying for Artisans- The Taboo Topic
« Reply #41 on: Wed, 10 February 2016, 15:31:27 »
Yes. But what are the chances the disappearing outside of our community all together making prices even higher.

Could you please give an explanation about why do you believe that artisan keycaps need to remain in this community? Because in my perception they are just pieces of plastic handmade or crafted by someone who wanted to make some money with their talent and skills, while pleasing keyboard enthusiasts at the same time. Whoever ends up owning them doesn't really matter. Your logic could be compared to restricting Goghs to Dutch collectors only, and Frederique Constant watches for the Swiss collectors only. What's the deal?



Offline FLFisherman

  • * Elevated Elder
  • Posts: 2243
  • Location: FL
  • I'd rather be fishing.
Re: Overpaying for Artisans- The Taboo Topic
« Reply #42 on: Wed, 10 February 2016, 15:32:17 »
Selling my clacks at retail pm me.

More
just kidding

I've paid an inflated price 2 times for a clack(not as bad a price as it is today) and it was worth it to be honest. With the insanely crazy bidders on eBay the price of my clacks "went up". Either way I don't think I will sell them I like the novelty of having a clack they're cool and add a bit a spark to my board but in the end it is just a tiny ****ty plastic.  ^-^



PM'd  ;)
Click the """"more""""

PM sent anyways!

Offline Dongulator

  • Posts: 361
  • Location: Seattle,Wa
  • ..
Re: Overpaying for Artisans- The Taboo Topic
« Reply #43 on: Wed, 10 February 2016, 15:35:07 »
PM sent anyways!

<_<   do you see my pm's?
Thank you for reading my post

Offline qazeqaz

  • Posts: 113
  • Location: Cleveland, Ohio
Re: Overpaying for Artisans- The Taboo Topic
« Reply #44 on: Wed, 10 February 2016, 15:51:05 »
I know I have paid over retail for my 1st cap a blackout BBv2, I did that though because I have nothing to trade and it was easier to snag it. But I can honestly say that I will not do it again. 405 and previously listed prices are crazy! Especially when K3 sells almost the same thing for under 50.

Yes I know they are a bit different than Clacks but F me if you think I am going to drop almost 2700 USD to do the top row of my KB when all I want is for it to look cool and be unique!

Offline demik

  • Pronounced "demique"
  • Posts: 11159
Re: Overpaying for Artisans- The Taboo Topic
« Reply #45 on: Wed, 10 February 2016, 15:53:38 »
Anything not free is over paying

Hook me up brah.

Well I never said it want worth it!


Anything not free is over paying
What about a $200 meme keyboard?

Ooooooooooo.

Don't worry. I'll be upgrading it so it's actually worth that price. Gonna trick it out with some bling glitter and stickers and stuff.

ಠ_ಠ both of you
No, hes not around. How that sound to ya? Jot it down.

Offline appleonama

  • Trollo en USA
  • * Exquisite Elder
  • Posts: 1326
Re: Overpaying for Artisans- The Taboo Topic
« Reply #46 on: Wed, 10 February 2016, 15:56:43 »
Demik sold me gummyrot at retail /s  ;D
« Last Edit: Wed, 10 February 2016, 16:03:55 by appleonama »

Offline demik

  • Pronounced "demique"
  • Posts: 11159
Re: Overpaying for Artisans- The Taboo Topic
« Reply #47 on: Wed, 10 February 2016, 15:58:36 »
Hey you're breaching the NDA!
No, hes not around. How that sound to ya? Jot it down.

Offline appleonama

  • Trollo en USA
  • * Exquisite Elder
  • Posts: 1326
Re: Overpaying for Artisans- The Taboo Topic
« Reply #48 on: Wed, 10 February 2016, 16:00:21 »
Hey you're breaching the NDA!
'

never signed one

Offline demik

  • Pronounced "demique"
  • Posts: 11159
Re: Overpaying for Artisans- The Taboo Topic
« Reply #49 on: Wed, 10 February 2016, 16:01:15 »
You did when you paid
No, hes not around. How that sound to ya? Jot it down.