Keyboardio vs Kinesis Advantage/Maltron

[glitchathon]

I just discovered the keyboardio, and it looks really great. I am a current Kinesis Advantage user and I love the layout but I actually think it is a bit OVER-contoured. I have been interested in a Maltron 2D as an alternative.

But this Keyboardio is another great option. I think the physical layout is great and is roughly what I am looking for, but I think where it misses the mark for me, in a huge way is its arrows and PgUp/PgDn keys. The Maltrons have it in the thumb clusters. The Kinesis, even better imo, have the arrows accessible with index and middle finger without leaving the home row and the PgUp/PgDn in a thumb cluster in a very useful way.

I am curious if any Kinesis or Maltron users are considering the switch to a Keyboardio? I am very interested in it, but hesitant to spend that much if I end up back on the Kinesis eventually.

I suppose the Keyboardio can be set to change the key mappings but then I do like having legends and the custom keys will be impossible to replace.

[kurplop]

I have tried both the Keyboardio and the Advantage and think they are both good boards. They both seem to offer ergonomic improvements over conventional keyboards and ultimately which board will work best for you is very subjective.

The Advantage offers a time tested and refined product but I found the key wells gave me a bit of a cramped in feeling and the varied vector paths of the switches would have taken a longer time for me to get use to than I was willing to give it.

I admit that I don't care for the name or look of the Keyboardio (talk about subjective), but its design offers a very natural, comfortable feel which I think would accommodate a wide range of hand sizes. Put a different way, "If the Keyboardio fits your hand like a glove, the Advantage fits more like mittens".  Like most ergo boards, both keyboards force a more strict typing style.

I think I heard that Keyboardio would offer blank keycaps for those wishing to modify their layouts.

My greatest hesitation with the Keyboardio, as with any new product, is that it hasn't yet stood the test of time. 

[jacobolus]

One important feature on the keyboard.io is that it’s fully programmable. So if you like the physical key arrangement, it’s easy to change the logical assignment of each key.

[obra]

I admit that I don't care for the name or look of the Keyboardio (talk about subjective), but its design offers a very natural, comfortable feel which I think would accommodate a wide range of hand sizes. Put a different way, "If the Keyboardio fits your hand like a glove, the Advantage fits more like mittens".  Like most ergo boards, both keyboards force a more strict typing style.

I think I heard that Keyboardio would offer blank keycaps for those wishing to modify their layouts.

My greatest hesitation with the Keyboardio, as with any new product, is that it hasn't yet stood the test of time. 

Technically, the product is the Model 01

We will indeed have a blank cap option. (And we'll sell additional cap sets)

And a bigger worry than the model 01 not having stood the test of time is that we haven't even shipped yet. But we're working on that.

[vivalarevolución]

I had the Kinesis Advantage and Maltron, and also used the Ergodox.  I did try out the Keyboardio at Keycon 2015.  Keyboardio is an improvement of the Ergodox, based on the maker's unsatisfactory experiences with the Ergodox (which is obra, who has commented in this thread).  I own none of these anymore, but I will speak of my experiences with them.

The main differences with the Kinesis/Maltron and the Ergodox was that I had to do more reaching with my fingers for keys on the Ergodox.  The contoured key well of the Kinesis/Maltron allowed all the keys to be closer together, and I did not have to do nearly as much reaching with my fingers, therefore, reducing any strain caused by the use of the keyboard.

I agree with kurplop, the Kinesis can feel cramped, which is why I preferred the design and use of the Maltron.  The Kinesis wins on price and the ability to switch the location of the keys (not fully programmable, though).  But the Maltron is designed so well that I did not feel the need to switch the location of any keys.

The Keyboardio does a much better job of arranging the keys than the Ergodox to reflect the natural movement of your hands and fingers.  The location of the thumbs, the staggering of the columns, the unique curve of the keycaps all produce a better typing experience than the Ergodox.  And if you don't like the arrow keys, you can reprogram them to wherever you want.  The only downside is that you will have to stretch your fingers more to reach the outer keys, like on the Ergodox.

Personally, I think all of them are great options in their own right and serve different purposes.  Keyboardio is an improvement on the Ergodox design, so my opinion is that it is worth the extra $100, because the Ergodox flaws are too big to ignore after using it for some time.

[glitchathon]

Thanks for the responses everyone. I tried to come up with other layouts for the Keyboardio and I decided that the thumb cluster has too few keys for me to work it out. I am VERY tempted to get a Maltron as I like the less concave design of it. The Kinesis goes slightly overboard with the contour and whereas it is still my favorite keyboard I have tried, I think the Maltron would be even better for me... particularly the 89 layout.

I keep hearing rumors of Maltron going into production and lowering costs, and/or coming up with a programmable version. But it seems like it is not happening. Should I spring the $600+ for one and get it over with? Such a tough decision!

[jacobolus]

Caveat: I haven’t owned either Maltron or Kinesis Advantage, but have only spent a few hours here or there typing with them (so note: not fully fluently).

Top level conclusion: I definitely preferred the Maltron to the Advantage. The biggest things were the step/angle on the pinky keys, the stagger/step on the middle finger column, and the orientation of the thumb keys.

On both Maltron and Advantage, I’m not a big fan of the orientation of the number row keys, I think they angle forward too much. Better in my opinion would be to have narrower keytops closer spaced along the columns (e.g. 17mm instead of 19mm) with a similar height step between rows but with a more vertical switch axis on the top rows.

Also, I think both keyboards should have added another couple of index finger keys on each hand towards the middle of the main letter block, scooted the pinky column slightly toward the body, and maybe ditched the top outside corner keys and bottom row pinky keys.

The Maltron thumb section overall isn’t ideal (several of the the 1u keys are a bit awkward to press), but the two big keys (space and E in Malt layout) have great placement and great orientation. Probably the most comfortable spacebar on any keyboard I’ve tried. The other thing the Maltron is smart about is putting a vertical height step between different finger columns. This reduces the amount of horizontal stagger required to make these keys comfortable to press, allowing the text block to stay closer to rectangular.

The designers of the Advantage mostly copied the Maltron layout, but I feel they somewhat missed the point of the Maltron’s placement and orientation on the thumb keys and the step/orientation of finger keys. I think the Advantage would benefit from scooting the middle finger away from the body and pinky finger toward the body and/or lowering the middle finger column and raising the pinky column, and tilting the ring and pinky finger columns so they’re more aligned with the other finger columns instead of oriented outward to match the “bowl” shape. I also like the tall shifts on the Maltron better than the slightly wide shifts on the Advantage. The thumb section in the Advantage is okay, but it’s noticeably less comfortable for me to press the main spacebar keys than on the Maltron. The overall hand position required on the Advantage is a bit less relaxed, in my opinion.

Personally I would ditch the Maltron’s central numpad, and just put numpad functions on the main section of the right hand, on a layer. I’d also ditch the F keys and put those on a layer, but I can understand some people need dedicated F keys with clear legends.

I don’t personally think either the Maltron or the Advantage does a great job with placement of modifier keys, and I don’t much like the treatment of numbers and symbols on any of the “standardish” keyboard layouts (including QWERTY, Dvorak, Colemak, Malt, etc.). If I had to use the same physical key arrangement as one of these keyboards, I would heavily customize the logical layout to match my own preferences.

Versus keyboards with flat halves like the Keyboardio, the Maltron definitely has some advantage by being sculpted. In particular I think having a different orientation between finger and thumb keys can be a nice improvement, as is having different heights between fingers. The keyboardio can make up some of the difference via carefully shaped keycaps, but it’s still not quite the same. The split design of the Keyboardio/Ergodox/Matias ErgoPro/IBM M15/etc. shouldn’t be underestimated though. Everyone’s body is a little bit different, and likewise there is great variability in desk/chair setup. If the two halves are independently adjustable, you can move and orient the halves to minimize strain on your muscles/tendons much more than any one-piece keyboard allows.

Recommendation #1: don’t take any of our advice as gospel, but try them all for yourself. YMMV, etc.

Recommendation #2: try not to get sucked in quite as much as obra did. The next 5+ years of your life don’t need to revolve around keyboard ergonomics.

[vvp]

When I was deciding about 14 years ago, I went for Kinesis Advantage. Maltron looked too expensive for what it provides compared to Kinesis.

Keyboardio looks pretty good from the usability point of view. But it is very expensive for a non-contoured keyboard. Unfortunately it is not fully split too.
And the "butterfly" shape looks pretty silly to me - although it is only a visual thing - so it does not matter.

Kinesis Advantage: "Cramped" is good. You do not need to reach that far.

If I would not know a bit about programming and electronics and if I would be deciding again then I would go for Kinesis Advantage. Since I know a bit about programming/electronics I would probably replace controller and make thumb clusters 8-key (instead of 6-key): https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=56923.0
Instead I built my own ideal keyboard about a year ago: https://deskthority.net/post282413.html#p282413

Jacobolus posted in the meantime - I agree except few points:
I did not use Maltron myself but from pictures the pinkie keys do not look better than on Kinesis. Good pinkie keys are on my Katy. Pinkie keys were the main reason for the case change from version v0.6 to v0.7. I would say pinkie keys are as bad on Maltron as on Kinesis.
In my opinion, all modifiers should be on thumbs (including shifts). Kinesis allows to remap it that way. As far as I know, Maltron does not allow it.

[vivalarevolución]

We can break down the features of these keyboards to the nth degree.  I think the most important thing to remember is the PERFECT keyboard doesn't exist, because they all are flawed in some way (kinda like people).  Something that does most of what you want or need it to do is about the best you can get.  Although if you are curious, by all means, try out a bunch of them.

Or you can be like obra, vvp, and many others that developed the knowledge and skill to make their own keyboard.