Northgate Omnikey, likely Blue Alps

[nubbinator]

Can't confirm that it has Blue Alps, but it's more likely given that it has a gold label.  Probably why the bidding is so high on it as well.

Gold Label Northgate Omnikey 102


There's also a white label 102 that you might get lucky with.  They don't have Blues as often, but sometimes do:

White label Northgate Omnikey 102


Then there's this guy that's likely White Alps:

Avant Prime branded Northgate Omnikey 101 (GT6Omnikey)

[alienman82]

removed.

[jacobolus]

Both those keyboards are super dirty. I wouldn’t be surprised if the switches were in bad condition, but you might get lucky.

Aren’t the Avant boards Fuhua switches?

[nubbinator]

Both those keyboards are super dirty. I wouldn’t be surprised if the switches were in bad condition, but you might get lucky.

Aren’t the Avant boards Fuhua switches?

Last I saw people were stating they were White Alps.  They could be the simplified Fuhua White Alps, but I couldn't say.  I haven't seen anyone say anything other than White Alps.

[khronokrator]

Northgate guru Robert Tibbets advised me to "stay away" from Avant keyboards in general. The drop-off in quality was evidently rather severe.

And I'm almost 100% certain that Avant would have clone switches. The switches in my Ultra TP (with the Windows key) are almost certainly simplified/clones. I'm willing to bet any Omnikey or Avant keyboard made with a Windows key probably has clones, since it seems Northgate just stopped using real complicated Alps around the time Windows 95 started to become popular. (Well, that and Alps itself stopped making the switches around the same time.)

Even if they have the "ALPS" logo, as a general rule of thumb anything with an upside-down logo (which my Ultra TP has) is very likely to be simplified Alps, which are IMO a considerable downgrade from the real thing.

[itzmeluigi]

Wow i got the seller to remove a key from the gold label and it has White Alps, do gold labels reallly exist with white alps?

[frogthejam19]

Wow i got the seller to remove a key from  the gold label and it has White Alps, do gold labels reallly exist with white alps?

 

[jevvix]

Man that thing is filthy as hell. Even if it did have blue alps I'd avoid like the plague... which you'll probably catch while typing on it.

[khronokrator]

It astonishes me that sellers won't even make the attempt to clean their wares before selling them. Wiping it down with a damp cloth would probably take all of 2 minutes at most; he probably spent more time making the listing. Just disgraceful.

[chyros]

Wow i got the seller to remove a key from the gold label and it has White Alps, do gold labels reallly exist with white alps?

The gold label was just the old label, just like blue Alps were the older switches. It makes sense that they didn't switch at exactly the same time. Can't recall if I've ever seen another white Alps blue label though.

[ander]

Wouldn't you be a bit embarrassed with a 102, though, where they cheaped out and used membranes on the F-keys? "Okay, I'll press an F-key now... Oops, I forgot, there are no F-keys, just this row of glaringly contrasting F-pads. So instead of just pressing an F-key at normal speed, I'll need to stop, look down at the board (so I'm sure I'm in the right place), reach over the top row of keys, modify my touch, press the pad thingie, then reorient myself and continue... Maybe I'll start humming when I need to press one so I won't pay too much attention to how goofy they are. Hmm, hmm, hmmmm..." What does that say about a board in general? How good would you assume the rest of it was?

I suppose it's not as bad as that seemingly high-end Corsair MK where they used RDs for a bunch of the switches and didn't bother telling anyone. (Their advertising still doesn't mention it despite a great hue and cry from the KB community—amazing.) At least the Focus board didn't try to hide it. Still, it is kind of ironic, being a company called Focus and making a product that users wouldn't want to, you know, focus on.

[ander]

I was just thinking: Could that be why Corsair decided to call them "Vengeance"? To get vengeance on the MK community for some reason? Maybe some gamers were rude to them back when they just made RAM? You never know. People can hold grudges.

[jwaz]

Northgate guru Robert Tibbets advised me to "stay away" from Avant keyboards in general. The drop-off in quality was evidently rather severe.

Ask Bob about the difference between blue and white alps sometime

[fohat.digs]

Northgate guru Robert Tibbets advised me to "stay away" from Avant keyboards in general.

Ask Bob about the difference between blue and white alps sometime

Ha Ha. Here is what he told me:

"Why are you going to all the work and pain to swap the switches?  The switches are exactly the same.  Take them apart and look at the inside.  The only difference is the blue plunger.   Unless your 102 was the latest they are the same and I've taken a lot apart.   The internet is loaded with "experts that know the blue switch is better".  It is a total waste of time, effort and cost.  I had a customer a year ago that drove round trip 150 miles + to buy a GL102 Blue switch from me at $225.00  I told him it was a waste of money and proved it to him.  I had both white and blue switch GL102's.   I took a white and a blue switch, both have the same Alps # on them.  Took them apart and showed him that internally they were the same.   After he looked at them, he agreed and saved $80.00   The Asian people will pay almost anything for a Blue switch model, I guess some mystical thing.  I have  no idea though."

[nubbinator]

Oh those "Asian people"...

[ander]

It went for $360, 33 bids.

LOL, wouldn't that be hilarious if blue Alpses did turn out just to have a different slider color than whites? Has no one done a serious study of that here? It could go a long way toward bringing people back to earth.

Er, actually, if one of you does that study and finds out it is true, will you please PM me first so I can slap my Acer KB-101A onto eBay before the market crashes? Of course, a lot of people do crave collectibles just because they're colored different... It's something about primate behavior. I'll have to look it up.

[itzmeluigi]

Is he talking about White Alps in general? Or only the old White Alps without the logo?

[chyros]

LOL, wouldn't that be hilarious if blue Alpses did turn out just to have a different slider color than whites? Has no one done a serious study of that here? It could go a long way toward bringing people back to earth.

I think people look too much into the slider colour, while that's just a rough indication. If you pay close attention, you'll notice the differences aren't related necessarily to the slider colour, just to manufacture date. There appear to have been more changes to the construction and material of these switches than one - early (slitted) white Alps for example feel and sound different from later ones, and the ones with the hand-written mould numbering appear to be yet again different. The Alps-labelled blue Alps are probably different to the blue Alps most of us know, too.

Generally speaking I'm sure there is a difference between most blue Alps and most white Alps. Going from one to the other at least one change in construction appears to have happened, one of which appears to be the loss of the lubricant (and with it, possibly a change in slider material to compensate). Tibbets talks of things that are visually the same, while we all know that is a very poor way to judge the construction of a switch indeed. After all, do vintage Cherries look different from modern ones in terms of construction?

Wouldn't you be a bit embarrassed with a 102, though, where they cheaped out and used membranes on the F-keys? "Okay, I'll press an F-key now... Oops, I forgot, there are no F-keys, just this row of glaringly contrasting F-pads.

Uhhh, the 102 has normal F keys doesn't it? Oo The pads are just a mylar strip where you can write down what the keys do, some other boards have this feature too.

[jacobolus]

LOL, wouldn't that be hilarious if blue Alpses did turn out just to have a different slider color than whites? Has no one done a serious study of that here? It could go a long way toward bringing people back to earth.

What do you consider a “serious study”?

I’ve taken the switches apart. They have slightly different housing, “switchplate” assembly, click leaf, spring, and slider. Additionally there’s some kind of factory-applied lube on the blue switches. Basically every part is slightly different.

Some of the differences were obviously deliberate changes to switch feel: e.g. they made the white switches a bit stiffer. Other changes seem intended to reduce the production cost.

If you’re asking for a full chemical analysis of the lubricant and plastics, metallurgical analysis of the metal used in the spring and tactile leaf, very precise 3d scans of the different shapes on the parts, etc., then I don’t think anyone has gone that far.

[khronokrator]

I've been treated to that same bizarre rant, literally line for line. I'm guessing he just C&Ps it whenever anyone mentions Blue Alps. 

That's not to say the current Blue Alps hysteria isn't driven by hype, but they clearly do look, sound, and feel different. Just as with the differences between complicated White Alps and simplified/clone knockoffs; they switches might look the same, but anything without the "pine" slits feels very very different in actual usage.

[merlin64]

I have both a white alps and blue alps board sitting on my shelf, they feel very different from each other.

[CPTBadAss]

Proud to be Asian people and a Blue Alps enthusiast. Sounds like Bob hates us 'cause he aint us

[ander]

Uh, sorry, I must've confused this with the blue-Alps Acer that was recently for sale.

I see the eBay page the first link points to now has a clear photo of a white Alps switch in it. The seller must've added it on request.

Ha Ha. Here is what [Bob Tibbetts] told me:

"Why are you going to all the work and pain to swap the switches? [Blue and white Alpses] are exactly the same. Take them apart and look at the inside. The only difference is the blue plunger..."

I've now heard this from three very experienced people. If you ask me, Blue Alps Mania is due for a serious reassessment.

[jacobolus]

I've now heard this from three very experienced people.

These “very experienced people” obviously never bothered to take the switches apart.

[fohat.digs]

These “very experienced people” obviously never bothered to take the switches apart.

Bob Tibbetts has been making a business out of repairing, refurbishing, and selling Alps keyboards for many years, and has surely done hundreds of them.

I once sold him a nasty old Northgate, and later he wrote me and told me that somebody had probably dunked it in soapy water and that he had had to remove every switch and clean it out. But he thanked me anyway and said that it ended up very nice.

People can have opposite and irreconcilable differences of opinion, but his is one that cannot be dismissed out of hand.