Infinity 60% keyboard underglow

[Geekmie]

Just ordered an Infinity 60% keyboard from Massdrop. Does anyone know if it is possible to add underglow for this keyboard?

My acrylic diffuser plate is already on its way. Just don't know how to add LED under this PCB. Any idea?

Thanks a lot.

[flabbergast]

There's no official support for that. However you can do it ghetto way, like someone on their planck: https://m.imgur.com/a/I1HMQ
I.e. solder appropriate size SMT LEDs to the pads that are normally used for standard LEDs.
You may even be able to use both top and bottom LEDs at the same time, but that's a bit more fiddly. However in that case note that when you'll have 2 LEDs on the same pads (top+bottom), they'll share the same amount of current, making the top LED dimmer than it would be without the bottom LED soldered.

[Geekmie]

There's no official support for that. However you can do it ghetto way, like someone on their planck: https://m.imgur.com/a/I1HMQ
I.e. solder appropriate size SMT LEDs to the pads that are normally used for standard LEDs.
You may even be able to use both top and bottom LEDs at the same time, but that's a bit more fiddly. However in that case note that when you'll have 2 LEDs on the same pads (top+bottom), they'll share the same amount of current, making the top LED dimmer than it would be without the bottom LED soldered.

Thanks! I've never done this before. You mean that I can put one SMT LED at the bottom of the PCB and share the LED slots for one key with it? Is there any other component need to be changed or added, like resistors? And where can I find these SMT LED? Sorry to bother you so many questions. I am fairly new to this. Thanks a lot.

[iaeen]

I don't think you would necessarily need to use SMT LEDs. Theres a good chance that you can use through-hole LEDs. The only thing you need to worry about is room within the case.

I'm not actually familiar with the Infinity 60%, but if it's like the Infinity ErgoDox, you won't need to do anything other then solder LEDs on. It should have a dedicated LED controller that negates the need to worry about stuff like resistors.

[Geekmie]

I don't think you would necessarily need to use SMT LEDs. Theres a good chance that you can use through-hole LEDs. The only thing you need to worry about is room within the case.

I'm not actually familiar with the Infinity 60%, but if it's like the Infinity ErgoDox, you won't need to do anything other then solder LEDs on. It should have a dedicated LED controller that negates the need to worry about stuff like resistors.

Thanks, iaeen. If I use through-hole LED for the bottom, can I still solder another LED on top for the key backlit? Is there going to be any affects? Basically, these two top and bottom LEDs will share the same holes?

[flabbergast]

Thanks, iaeen. If I use through-hole LED for the bottom, can I still solder another LED on top for the key backlit? Is there going to be any affects? Basically, these two top and bottom LEDs will share the same holes?

Yes, they will share the same holes. You might not be able to fit 2 legs through one hole at the same time, and soldering will get really tricky (since the bottom through-hole LED will obscure the region where one would normally solder).

As iaeen writes, no resistors are needed, but the two LEDs will still be in parallel, so they may suffer from this (this is what I meant that if affects the brightness).

Finally, I didn't know that there are any through-hole LEDs that would fit in any case when soldered on the bottom side. Well.

[Geekmie]

Thanks, iaeen. If I use through-hole LED for the bottom, can I still solder another LED on top for the key backlit? Is there going to be any affects? Basically, these two top and bottom LEDs will share the same holes?

Yes, they will share the same holes. You might not be able to fit 2 legs through one hole at the same time, and soldering will get really tricky (since the bottom through-hole LED will obscure the region where one would normally solder).

As iaeen writes, no resistors are needed, but the two LEDs will still be in parallel, so they may suffer from this (this is what I meant that if affects the brightness).

Finally, I didn't know that there are any through-hole LEDs that would fit in any case when soldered on the bottom side. Well.

Thanks! Very helpful.

What I want to achieve is something like this.



This is very similar to infinity 60% so I guess there should be a way to insert LED between the PCB and acrylic diffuser.

[njbair]

It is possible to use the 4-pin header next to the reset button for GPIO, according to HaaTa. You would, of course, need to customize the firmware. But then you could find any old serial LED driver and use that to drive the underglow LEDs. Personally, I would look into this option and just use some hot glue to hold the underlights and extra circuitry in place.

This probably sounds like a lot of work, but it's totally doable, and you've already got Flabbergast's attention in this thread, who can probably have his TMK/ChibiOS firmware patched by the time you're done reading this post.

Come to think of it, if this idea picks up steam I might try it myself on one of my Infinities.

[flabbergast]

Yep, njbair is right, it's possible. You may even be able to use one of the RGB LED strips based on WS2812 chips (aka neopixels). The whole strip of those only needs 1 pin (besides power and ground of course). Writing some code to make this possible is definitely necessary.

[Geekmie]

Yep, njbair is right, it's possible. You may even be able to use one of the RGB LED strips based on WS2812 chips (aka neopixels). The whole strip of those only needs 1 pin (besides power and ground of course). Writing some code to make this possible is definitely necessary.

This is getting exciting. Writing code (C++) is actually my daily work, lol. I wrote some C code for chips long time ago and forget them all right now. I don't think I can do any code work on this chip at this moment. But I guess I can pick up the chip coding stuff if anybody can point me to some guides and resources. And I do need knowledge on those circuits, chips and pins to be able to do any modification. So any help is welcome~

[childofthehorn]

Also possible : http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B014EA9PR0?psc=1&redirect=true&ref_=oh_aui_search_detailpage



Strips are spaced so the can go directly behind a row of keys. plus... like RGB and the controller once disassembled is small and thin.

[flabbergast]

This is getting exciting. Writing code (C++) is actually my daily work, lol. I wrote some C code for chips long time ago and forget them all right now. I don't think I can do any code work on this chip at this moment. But I guess I can pick up the chip coding stuff if anybody can point me to some guides and resources. And I do need knowledge on those circuits, chips and pins to be able to do any modification. So any help is welcome~

Not sure there are any "guides" as such out there. There are basically 2 relatively independent things: 1) communicate with your hardware 2) plug this into TMK (or whatever other firmware you'd use).
Now 1) is specific to whatever hardware you'll eventually use, and usually it's possible to dig up some libraries on the internet that do the job.
With 2) - it should become relatively straightforward soon-ish (hasu is adding some general hooks into TMK, which will make this easy).

[njbair]

Skullydazed has done some great work adding underglow support for the Monarch keyboard, both on the electronics side as well as the code. I haven't actually seen his code yet, but I'm thinking a lot of the hard work is probably already done.

[Geekmie]

Also possible : http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B014EA9PR0?psc=1&redirect=true&ref_=oh_aui_search_detailpage

Show Image

Strips are spaced so the can go directly behind a row of keys. plus... like RGB and the controller once disassembled is small and thin.

This looks awesome! Wonder how it works. Disassemble and use the controller that comes with the strip and share the 5V input with it, I guess? Disassembling looks like a challenge...

[Geekmie]

Not sure there are any "guides" as such out there. There are basically 2 relatively independent things: 1) communicate with your hardware 2) plug this into TMK (or whatever other firmware you'd use).
Now 1) is specific to whatever hardware you'll eventually use, and usually it's possible to dig up some libraries on the internet that do the job.
With 2) - it should become relatively straightforward soon-ish (hasu is adding some general hooks into TMK, which will make this easy).

Thanks! I guess I need to do a lot of googling, lol

[Geekmie]

Skullydazed has done some great work adding underglow support for the Monarch keyboard, both on the electronics side as well as the code. I haven't actually seen his code yet, but I'm thinking a lot of the hard work is probably already done.

I don't know about the Monarch keyboard. Will that work with the Infinity 60% as well? Is there any source for this?

[njbair]

Skullydazed has done some great work adding underglow support for the Monarch keyboard, both on the electronics side as well as the code. I haven't actually seen his code yet, but I'm thinking a lot of the hard work is probably already done.

I don't know about the Monarch keyboard. Will that work with the Infinity 60% as well? Is there any source for this?

Not sure. I'm on mobile or I would just link to the Monarch thread. But you can find it under Group Buys and ask your question there.

[childofthehorn]

So that one pictured is a FaceW Sprit60% and the issue there was trying to fit an attiny85 in there to control the WS2818 LEDs with the TEX case. The code alterations were not really the issue there.

Now when it comes to adding WS2818 LEDs to the infinity, you basically only need to write the tie ins and assign another set of function layer keys. The code there is ahem... much better organized and logical. You can use the serial interface, but I do believe that there is an open GPIO. However remember that the logic voltage of that chipset is 3.3V and too low for the WS2818 standard LEDs (though a low logic version is made now they are quite expensive) so using an NPN transistor (SOT-23 package) to boost would be good (maybe something like a 3904).

There is a larger issue with the normal infinity board in doing this directly..... YOU BETTER ADD SOME PROTECTION DIODES AND SMOOTHING CAPACITANCE!!! There is really very minimal smoothing capacitance on the infinity board and thus not equipped for any board level changes or add ons. I have spoken with Haata on this. its default configuration is not hacker friendly..... and the original USB ports used were junk and just crapy metal.... i suggest everyone replace theirs and secure it to the board with epoxy unless you have the very latest one which uses the PTH components now.

Disassembly of that unit is stupid easy as they basically just covered the controller with heatshrink. For the lack of frustration and overall finish, its likely your best option unless you are really comfy with a soldering iron and C code. I am on both counts and this was still a better option for what I wanted.

[Geekmie]

So that one pictured is a FaceW Sprit60% and the issue there was trying to fit an attiny85 in there to control the WS2818 LEDs with the TEX case. The code alterations were not really the issue there.

Now when it comes to adding WS2818 LEDs to the infinity, you basically only need to write the tie ins and assign another set of function layer keys. The code there is ahem... much better organized and logical. You can use the serial interface, but I do believe that there is an open GPIO. However remember that the logic voltage of that chipset is 3.3V and too low for the WS2818 standard LEDs (though a low logic version is made now they are quite expensive) so using an NPN transistor (SOT-23 package) to boost would be good (maybe something like a 3904).

There is a larger issue with the normal infinity board in doing this directly..... YOU BETTER ADD SOME PROTECTION DIODES AND SMOOTHING CAPACITANCE!!! There is really very minimal smoothing capacitance on the infinity board and thus not equipped for any board level changes or add ons. I have spoken with Haata on this. its default configuration is not hacker friendly..... and the original USB ports used were junk and just crapy metal.... i suggest everyone replace theirs and secure it to the board with epoxy unless you have the very latest one which uses the PTH components now.

Disassembly of that unit is stupid easy as they basically just covered the controller with heatshrink. For the lack of frustration and overall finish, its likely your best option unless you are really comfy with a soldering iron and C code. I am on both counts and this was still a better option for what I wanted.

Thanks for the details! Well, I actually would love to write some code and I've soldered many board before. But your suggestion is very right. It seems too much trouble to mod Infinity board. I can't believe it is not hacker friendly... I just ordered it from Massdrop so I assume it is the latest one with the PTH components you mentioned?

Anyway, back to the better solution, how should I power the strip? Wire some cable between the power input pins and the LED strip input pins?

[flabbergast]

Anyway, back to the better solution, how should I power the strip? Wire some cable between the power input pins and the LED strip input pins?

Definitely not! (EDIT: Sorry I misread your post.)
RGB LEDs are quite power hungry, in general MCU pins can supply only 10-20mA max before frying the MCU.
Any kind of LED system needs to be powered directly from USB's 5V. Only the communication pins (be it serial or the one WS2812 pin) should be wired to the MCU pins.

Again, let's reiterate:

ADD SOME PROTECTION DIODES AND SMOOTHING CAPACITANCE

Meaning that you'll need to add a relatively big capacitor between the 5V and GND lines (which would smooth out any spikes that appear when the LEDs power up), and some diodes for protection as well.

[Geekmie]

Again, let's reiterate:

ADD SOME PROTECTION DIODES AND SMOOTHING CAPACITANCE

Meaning that you'll need to add a relatively big capacitor between the 5V and GND lines (which would smooth out any spikes that appear when the LEDs power up), and some diodes for protection as well.

Thanks, flabbergast. So you mean I should do this if I want to add RGB LED by any ways, right? But I have no idea how big capacitor is sufficient and where I should put diodes. Any circuit diagram for this? Sorry for so many questions from me. I am just a newbie to this. Thanks a lot.

[flabbergast]

Adafruit recommends 1000uF for NeoPixels https://learn.adafruit.com/adafruit-neopixel-uberguide/power
Also useful to read for NeoPixels: https://learn.adafruit.com/adafruit-neopixel-uberguide/best-practices
For "normal" LEDs, 10uF is commonly used on backlit keyboards, but if you have a choice maybe go 100uF.

Diodes... hmm... someone else wants to chip in with some practical experience?

[childofthehorn]

1. Any 5V/1A+ power diode will do and there are a ton under $0.03 each which are fine.

2. If using the strip that had its own MCU/controller like the one I posted, there is no need for the extra capacitor. Its optional at that point since the controller has enough already.

3. Yes, wire directly to the 5V on the USB port. 

4. Just remember with everything running and not to cause a LDO error on the keyboard, only use like 6-7 max of the high power RGB LEDs. Some Testing on your part may be required. Mine does so and it glows VERY brightly as you can see in the video.

[Geekmie]

1. Any 5V/1A+ power diode will do and there are a ton under $0.03 each which are fine.

2. If using the strip that had its own MCU/controller like the one I posted, there is no need for the extra capacitor. Its optional at that point since the controller has enough already.

3. Yes, wire directly to the 5V on the USB port. 

4. Just remember with everything running and not to cause a LDO error on the keyboard, only use like 6-7 max of the high power RGB LEDs. Some Testing on your part may be required. Mine does so and it glows VERY brightly as you can see in the video.

Thanks! I guess I have enough information to start~  Yours looks amazing. Hopefully I can make my Infinity work like that. Can't wait for hands-on. But my board hasn't been shipped yet

Anyway, you guys are awesome! I will probably post my progress of assembling and modding after I get the board to witness my success, or fail, LOL.

[xtrafrood]

Also possible : http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B014EA9PR0?psc=1&redirect=true&ref_=oh_aui_search_detailpage

Show Image

Strips are spaced so the can go directly behind a row of keys. plus... like RGB and the controller once disassembled is small and thin.

This looks awesome! Wonder how it works. Disassemble and use the controller that comes with the strip and share the 5V input with it, I guess? Disassembling looks like a challenge...

That is a much better way to go about it than what I read on Reddit  :confused:

Infinity 60% MD Reddit Post
Infinity 60% Reddit Post

In the Reddit post, just below the Amazing Imgur link to a SATAN GH60 is brief explanation of what you would have to do for the Inifinity. Well, what they say needs to be done for separate control of the underglow..


Hello GH60 SATAN http://imgur.com/a/BzSMq

This stuff is beyond my caliber but I have noticed that the SATAN GH60 has built in support for crazy underglow.

[Geekmie]

That is a much better way to go about it than what I read on Reddit 

Infinity 60% MD Reddit Post
Infinity 60% Reddit Post

In the Reddit post, just below the Amazing Imgur link to a SATAN GH60 is brief explanation of what you would have to do for the Inifinity. Well, what they say needs to be done for separate control of the underglow..

Show Image

Hello GH60 SATAN http://imgur.com/a/BzSMq

This stuff is beyond my caliber but I have noticed that the SATAN GH60 has built in support for crazy underglow.

This solution looks pretty neat. But I wonder if this will have risks of messing up the board without adding capacitor and diodes, as mentioned by flabbergast. Besides, it requires firmware modification, which is fun to me, but I just don't know how to do it right now. I need to learn the TMK stuff I guess.

[xtrafrood]

That is a much better way to go about it than what I read on Reddit 

Infinity 60% MD Reddit Post
Infinity 60% Reddit Post

In the Reddit post, just below the Amazing Imgur link to a SATAN GH60 is brief explanation of what you would have to do for the Inifinity. Well, what they say needs to be done for separate control of the underglow..

Show Image

Hello GH60 SATAN http://imgur.com/a/BzSMq

This stuff is beyond my caliber but I have noticed that the SATAN GH60 has built in support for crazy underglow.

This solution looks pretty neat. But I wonder if this will have risks of messing up the board without adding capacitor and diodes, as mentioned by flabbergast. Besides, it requires firmware modification, which is fun to me, but I just don't know how to do it right now. I need to learn the TMK stuff I guess.

Yea, the SATAN GH 60% PCB only needs a firmware update and the WS2812B RGB LEDs apparently. The controller handles the rest for you :)

Good luck with your Infinity 60% project!

[flabbergast]

Well I'm confused as well - I thought that we are discussing here pretty much the same "solution".
Except that Infinity has a different MCU than any of the **60, so programming it will be somewhat different.

[Geekmie]

From my understanding, we have two solutions here:

1) Use the MCU already on board, re-program the firmware to control the LED strip. Power the strip from 5V input and add 10uF ~ 1000uF capacitor and 5V/1A+ power diode between 5V and GND lines to prevent toasting the board. Pretty much like what is shown in this link http://imgur.com/a/BzSMq


2) Use the MCU that comes with the LED strip. Power the strip and its MCU from 5V input. (Not sure if diode is needed in this case. Capacitor is not needed, according to what childofthehorn said). This solution is the same as in childofthehorn's post https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=80320.msg2091394#msg2091394

In either case, use only 6-7 max of the high power RGB LEDs, but some local test is required to confirm the number.

Guys, please correct me if I am wrong. Hope that we can get things clear here and help me and probably others to add the awesome underglow. Thanks a lot.

[xtrafrood]

The SATAN GH60 PCB is an alternative to the Infinity PCB.

SATAN GH60 PCB


Infinity 60% 


I guess some Infinity PCBs have "Kiibohd" printed on them? 


All these PCBs!

[Geekmie]

The SATAN GH60 PCB is an alternative to the Infinity PCB.

SATAN GH60 PCB

Show Image

Infinity 60% 

Show Image

I guess some Infinity PCBs have "Kiibohd" printed on them? 

Show Image

All these PCBs!

The fact that SATAN GH60 PCB has build-in underglow is kinda appealing to me. But the question is, can I use Infinity's firmware on it? I am really sold to the idea that you can easily configure the layout you prefer with a simple configurator here http://input.club/configurator-md-1-1-alphabet

Built-in underglow with firmware configurator would be optimal to me.

[xtrafrood]

That Satan GH60 is loaded with GMK Firmware. https://github.com/jackhumbert/qmk_firmware

I browsed over some GMK details and it looks like you can set up your keyboard using the Github documentation to do any kind of layout configuration you want.

It would be more complicated to set up the software configuration for the satan GH60. Nothing like the Input Club but the documentation for Github repository appears to be well maintained.

[Geekmie]

That Satan GH60 is loaded with GMK Firmware. https://github.com/jackhumbert/qmk_firmware

I browsed over some GMK details and it looks like you can set up your keyboard using the Github documentation to do any kind of layout configuration you want.

It would be more complicated to set up the software configuration for the satan GH60. Nothing like the Input Club but the documentation for Github repository appears to be well maintained.

I just checked the link and it is essentially using TMK, right? I guess I have to learn TMK to do some serious hack to any board...

But still, incredible work from the Input Club, they've made changing layout so easy for newbies. Wish one day we can have a configurator for all

[xtrafrood]

That Satan GH60 is loaded with GMK Firmware. https://github.com/jackhumbert/qmk_firmware

I browsed over some GMK details and it looks like you can set up your keyboard using the Github documentation to do any kind of layout configuration you want.

It would be more complicated to set up the software configuration for the satan GH60. Nothing like the Input Club but the documentation for Github repository appears to be well maintained.

I just checked the link and it is essentially using TMK, right? I guess I have to learn TMK to do some serious hack to any board...

But still, incredible work from the Input Club, they've made changing layout so easy for newbies. Wish one day we can have a configurator for all

Massdrop really knows how to bring people in to the custom keyboard fold! I found an ergodox email one day from Massdrop and that is what drove me to find out more about firmware customization 

[flabbergast]

On Infinity, you can use either the firmware that comes out of InputClub's online configurator (definitely no underglow support), or modify the sources of some firmware (for this you have two options - either Haata's (this is that's used for the online configurator internally), or hasu's TMK).

On almost all other boards, you will probably run some version/fork for of TMK. You can of course modify the sources (this is what I would recommend learning), but there are various online configurators for this also cropping up. Especially the Chinese ones. I think I've seen something like this for 'Satan GH60' somewhere here on GH.

[Geekmie]

On Infinity, you can use either the firmware that comes out of InputClub's online configurator (definitely no underglow support), or modify the sources of some firmware (for this you have two options - either Haata's (this is that's used for the online configurator internally), or hasu's TMK).

On almost all other boards, you will probably run some version/fork for of TMK. You can of course modify the sources (this is what I would recommend learning), but there are various online configurators for this also cropping up. Especially the Chinese ones. I think I've seen something like this for 'Satan GH60' somewhere here on GH.

It will be nice if we can create a post to list most firmware and their compatibility to all different kinds of boards. I don't mind digging up the internet and gather all the information but it just increases the bar for newbies like me to step on the world of firmware customization.

Now my goal is to learn TMK and hopefully one day I can contribute to the community as well. Start with the "ultimate solution for adding underglow to different PCBs" I guess, haha

[ideus]

Just in case someone is not aware already, there are PCBs that support SMD LEDs for underglow, at hardware and software level.

[Geekmie]

Just in case someone is not aware already, there are PCBs that support SMD LEDs for underglow, at hardware and software level.

Could you provide the name or link to these PCBs? Thanks.

[ideus]

Just in case someone is not aware already, there are PCBs that support SMD LEDs for underglow, at hardware and software level.

Could you provide the name or link to these PCBs? Thanks.

This is the link to one of them in sixty format.

http://www.gonskeyboardworks.com/pcbs-and-controllers/113-nerd-60-ver20-pcb.html

And this is a picture of the last build I did, showing one of the SMD LEDs and its resistor just soldered.

[xtrafrood]

Just in case someone is not aware already, there are PCBs that support SMD LEDs for underglow, at hardware and software level.

Could you provide the name or link to these PCBs? Thanks.

This is the link to one of them in sixty format.

http://www.gonskeyboardworks.com/pcbs-and-controllers/113-nerd-60-ver20-pcb.html

And this is a picture of the last build I did, showing one of the SMD LEDs and its resistor just soldered.

Show Image

ohhhh, I forgot about the NerD 60

[flabbergast]

Yea, Koreans are champions in the underglow business Winkeyless also has PCBs like that (even with RGB).

The Korean PCBs are generally of very good quality, and they generally come through when ordering from them (note they're not real "online stores" as such), but it may take a very random amount of time (especially GON

[Geekmie]

This is the link to one of them in sixty format.

http://www.gonskeyboardworks.com/pcbs-and-controllers/113-nerd-60-ver20-pcb.html

And this is a picture of the last build I did, showing one of the SMD LEDs and its resistor just soldered.

Show Image

Never know about this website. Looks nice! Thanks!

[ideus]

This is the link to one of them in sixty format.

http://www.gonskeyboardworks.com/pcbs-and-controllers/113-nerd-60-ver20-pcb.html

And this is a picture of the last build I did, showing one of the SMD LEDs and its resistor just soldered.

Show Image

Never know about this website. Looks nice! Thanks!

And its programming GUI rocks.

[childofthehorn]

The SATAN GH60 PCB is an alternative to the Infinity PCB.

All these PCBs!

But, no ALPS tho....