Persistent debounce issues

[jcoffin1981]

I have wrote about this in a  thread before, but  I still don't  know what to do.  I have a V60 with spacebar chatter and it does it probably 1/4 keystrokes.

My previous V60  had the same issue and I replaced the spacebar switch  3 times and it still  chattered.  Upon closer examination the steel plate was bent.  This may or may  not have been the cause.   I  straightened the plate, but  the contacts from the mini usb  port were so damaged it could not be saved.  I  am very  good at soldering, but I suck  at desoldering.  I  try to use the lowest temp  possible and "suck" as fast as I can,  but very  often the  components I'm  soldering to on the opposite side of the PCB are damaged.   It's possible that the temperature control on this "Mudder"  soldering iron  does  not  work well and this is part of the problem.  So my question is two fold.

1. How the heck d o I fix  this chatter issue?  I have lots of spare GTR switches to use.   Is this just variance in the switches?  I have read that others  said there is  a way to bend a contact or metal leaf inside the switch and this will  solve the issue.  This is my favorite keyboard and you can see  all of t he extra spaces.

2.  Can somebody recommend a soldering iron as well as a solder sucker that works well enough for my purposes.  I tried using braid only, but  it  could not  remove enough solder to  remove a switch  and the contacts broke from the switch when I was trying  to remove it from the plate.  Maybe it is worth it for me to break down and get one of these desoldering machines?   I just don't think the use I get o ut of  it will justify it's cost.  Once  I have the keyboards I like  working I won't need it  anymore.

Sorry for the long post, but I  appreciate those who read it and try t o  help. 

[CPTBadAss]

You should try seeing if you need to separate the case from the PCB. Sometimes grounding issues can cause weird issues. Otherwise swapping the switch isn't a bad idea.

I'd recommend a Edsyn Soldapult for desoldering.

[jcoffin1981]

What I have now is this     
                                           
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B015UC2IVG?psc=1&redirect=true&ref_=oh_aui_detailpage_o01_s00

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B003FHYL7I?psc=1&redirect=true&ref_=oh_aui_detailpage_o02_s00

I'm debating getting something like this

http://www.amazon.com/Hakko-FR-300-FR300-Desoldering-Tool/dp/B00KWM69C4/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1458329280&sr=8-1&keywords=desoldering+hakko


I think this Hakko tool will solve my desoldering problems.  At this point I'm reluctant to desolder a single switch.  Although I've learned that if you burn out the contacts for a switch  you can take wire and solder it to other points.  However on my last board I replaced the  spacebar several times and the chatter did not go away.

[rowdy]

Can you try using the board without the case?  Rest the PCB on something non-conductive, maybe a sheet of cardboard.  See if the issue goes away.

[FoxWolf1]

So, a silly suggestion with a low probability of success, but relatively harmless to try:

Have you tried cleaning off the PCB thoroughly? Sometimes a piece of residue in the wrong place can cause all sorts of screwy issues, including chatter-- and many keyboards, unfortunately, come with such things in them from the factory. Could be worth a shot to do the whole PCB with a healthy dose of OmniCleanz, then blow dry with a DataVac or compressed air.

[ShawnMeg]

I have an old vintage board with several Cherry MX Blue switches that are chattering.  I read somewhere that depressing the switch, putting a few drops of isopropyl alcohol, and then pressing the switch rapidly can sometimes work.  I tried it, and lo and behold, the switches appear to be functioning normally for the time being.  My situation may be different, as this is an old board that was sitting around in a dusty environment  The cause of the chattering in my situation may be from dirty contacts.  There was also a suggestion to use blow compressed air through the switch.  If your switches are new, then the above suggestions may be a long shot. 

I do have a some non-functioning switches, and I'm looking to desolder and  swap with some other switches that I don't use (e.g. F4, F7, Pause, etc).  I purchased a Mudder 65W with temp control off of Amazon and haven't tried it yet.  I practiced with a $4 Harbor Freight iron on an old PCB and a desoldering pump, but wasn't too successful.  It seemed to take a long time to melt the solder, and once melted and used the pump, it didn't seem to suction the solder.  The Harbor Freight iron appeared to be inadequate to melt the solder.

[rowdy]

Try simpler non-destructive solutions first

There was an issue with Quickfire Rapids a while back that the case was screwed together too tightly.  Simply loosening a couple of screws slightly restored full functionality.

Could be something as simple as that ...

[jcoffin1981]

Thank you all for the suggestions.  I have taken it out of the case and it appears clean.  It's interesting that with two keyboards in a row the spacebar chatters.  I have noticed that it happens more when the space bar is not hit dead center.  If you alternate the keystrokes to the right and left side of the space bar it chatters every time.

I can replace the switch but I will at the very least probably get a soldering station or a quality iron.  I don't think the temperature control works very accurately.  Even on the lowest setting it still instantly melts solder and is very hot.  This can partially account (along with inexperience) some of the damage to PCB's during desoldering.

What I was really looking for was some type of switch modification which I have heard it mentioned but have searched high and low but cannot find it.  It involves opening the switch and slightly bending a leaf or contact or some other part and this supposedly fixes the problem.  Once thing I have not tried is activating the switch while the board is outside the case.  I will try that.

What if I just replace it with a cherry mx brown?  Can  I do that and see if it solves the issue?

[rowdy]

You can put any Cherry MX or compatible switch in if that's what you're asking.

PCB-mount switches have an extra two plastic pins for PCB-mounting purposes that you can cut off if your keyboard has a plate.

[jcoffin1981]

I tried loosening the screws a few turns. No luck.

[jcoffin1981]

I really want  to put this problem behind me.  For those that are  more  experienced than me, am I better off 
1.  Replacing with other  Gateron switches until I find one  that does not have this chatter issue.   
2.  Modifying the switch itself to deter this chatter problem, although I can find reference to it  I cannot find any specific details as to what has to be modified. 
3.  Or should I try a Cherry Mx switch and see if this solves the problem?

I  know I am not alone.   I have  have others mention Gateron spacebar chatter issues. 

[rowdy]

You should be right with a genuine Cherry switch.

I know the others are "Cherry compatible", but I don't know whether they have the same extremely rigorous testing regime that Cherry has.

You could always test the new switch before you solder it in.

[jcoffin1981]

Yes, I can test it first, but I think some of the bounce may have involve the weight  of the spacebar- the  momentum it gains as you press the keystroke.  I've also noticed that this occurs even more when you strike the sides of the spacebar, so I'm not sure how accurate this will be.

But yes, I think  this is what I'm going to do and that it's my best chance at solving this issue.  Unless someone can point me in the direction of modifying the metal contacts inside the switch to reduce  the  chatter?  I'd prefer to keep all the keycaps the same, but if switching to a Cherry fixes it, then I guess that's fine.

[jcoffin1981]

So I have solved my problem.  It was not with replacing the switch, a firmware update, or any other recommendations.  I went into the registry-

HKEYCURRENTUSER\Control Panel\Accessability\Keyboard Response_Bounce Time:  18

I have it set to 18.  I am not a super fast typist so it should not effect it other keystrokes.  I think I have still seen 1 or 2 other chatters, but the board is usuable now, and we'll see what happens.  In the end I may end up changing to a cherry switch anyway because even these rare chatters bother me, but it's perfectibly usuable for now,  so in the meantime I'm happy.  Ahh, there was an extra keystroke.


I still a few other keyboards that have problems that I'm dealing with,  but one at a time.
.