AT or XT?

[Computer-Lab in Basement]

I just bought an ALPS board, and I am wondering if anyone here can tell whether it is AT or XT by looking at the model no. I looked it up on google, but nothing about this board.  

Link:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=360172837443&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT

[ch_123]

AT or XT/AT switchable. XT keyboards didn't support LEDs. Also, judging by the layout, it was probably made some time in the mid to late 80s which makes the odds that it's an AT even higher.

[microsoft windows]

My Focus was made in 1989 and is XT-AT switchable. That one you're looking is an AT alright. The only XT's with lock lights were made by Compaq for their Deskpro computers.

[ch_123]

Btw - those aren't blue Alps.

They're SMK Monterey switches. They're meant to be quite good though. Some, including my fellow Model F acolyte maxlugar, believe them to be superior to the Blue Cherry.

Review

[maxlugar]

Btw - those aren't blue Alps.

They're SMK Monterey switches. They're meant to be quite good though. Some, including my fellow Model F acolyte maxlugar, believe them to be superior to the Blue Cherry.

Review

Well, superior may have not been the appropriate word.

They are cross between buckling springs and Blue Cherries.  Blue Cherries are probably still more fun to type on, but unlike Blue Cherries, the SMK Monterey switches provide tactile and audible feedback on the on the down press and the return.  They are light, but not as light at Blue Cherries, but lighter and quieter than buckling springs.

I can personally type much faster on my Chicony KB-5181 with blue SMK Monterey switches than on my Blue Cherry Filco keyboards.

Search geekhack for a Chicony KB-5181 keyboard review manyac did several months ago.  He did a nice job of describing the blue SMK Monterey key switches.

[ch_123]

The link was to Manyak's review =P

Out of curiosity, have you ever used White or Blue complicated Alps? If so, how do they stack up against the SMKs?

[Computer-Lab in Basement]

OK thanks for the info guys.  Maybe I can complain that the guy was falsely advertising an ALPS board when it was SMK Monterey switches and get another free board, but that might be pushing it.  I bought it from the guy tha sent me the wrong keyboard.

[ch_123]

Never make the same mistake twice =P

Out of curiosity, what keyboard was he meant to sell you the last time, and what did you get?

[Computer-Lab in Basement]

He was suppose to send me a Chicony KB 5161.  He sent me some Chicony rubber dome crapper.  But this time, I hope he sends me a respectable keyboard.  If he sends me crap, then I'll complain and get my money back like I did the last time.

And when you look closely, I can see some text on the keyswitch that looks like it might say ALPS on it.  Look at the enlarged picture to see what I am talking about.  Maybe I am seeing things.  I shouldn't be, I have 20/20 vision.  I guess I'll have to wait and see when I get it.  It should be in by Saturday if UPS ships on Saturdays. If not then Monday.

[ch_123]

The same guy (I think) is selling a keyboard with Blue Alps. However, he's selling it for $400... Obviously this guy has delusions of grandeur...

[microsoft windows]

You've got to take chances with Ebay.

[overdriver]

Please, let me know how it goes once you tried. I am also interested in this 'SMK Monterey switches' since some members here praised its tactile and feedback.

[maxlugar]

Yeah, I'm curious too.  I've tried White Complicated ALPS and agree they beat the pants off the Simplified XMs  I tried and the Black Complicated ALPS.

I have a Northgate Omnikey 102 which uses real complicated white ALPS key switches.  I would agree they are much superior to the XMs or the so-called simplifed Fukka unbranded ALPS key switches.  The white ALPS bottom out better and the typing experience is more satisfying.

I pulled my Filco Zero out of the box the other night and used it for about 20 minutes before going back to my Pink Filco with Blue Cherries.  It is OK, but a far cry from the Omnikey.  I can't understand the Fukka appeal.

I haven't typed on a keyboard with blue ALPS key switches.  The SMK Monterey key switches were supposedly a copy of the ALPS, but I don't think they feel similar to white ALPS.

[microsoft windows]

Is your Omnikey your main computer keyboard?

[Computer-Lab in Basement]

I'll let you know when I get it.

[microsoft windows]

You're getting a Northgate?

[zwmalone]

eww RNS Auctions... I bought a Chicony with ALPS complicated switches from them, and it came full of broken traces that I eventually repaired myself...  It was EXTREMELY dirty and nasty...  not what I expected for a $50 'board... they must have had multiple of the same one for the pictures to look so good

[microsoft windows]

The same thing was with my Focus. It was so filthy even I cleaned it up. But it works and feels great (with the exception of the wacked-out calculator LCD)!

[Computer-Lab in Basement]

I think I am never going to buy from them again.

[elbowglue]

This is the same keyboard, but NIB:
http://cgi.ebay.com/New-Chicony-KB-5181-Computer-Keyboard_W0QQitemZ360215878620QQcmdZViewItemQQptZPCA_Mice_Trackballs?hash=item53de8a1bdc

I have 2 of these keyboards. Clicky.  I like them.  A little crisper than cherry blues.  For some reason they don't seem to have as deep as travel as cherries.  I bought two of these from the same seller as I listed above, both were brand new in box.

If you're gonna get one of these Chicony KB-5181 get a new one for gods sake

[elbowglue]

Yeah..my sig was also taken from my favorite l4d2 group, "Boycotted by Left for dead 2".. http://steamcommunity.com/groups/L4D2CRASHONLOAD

I was screwed by valve, pre-ordered the damn game and was unable to play it for at about 2-3 after release because it was buggy, unable to play on drives formatted with FAT32.  Since I pre-ordered it of course now it has been fixed long after the price of the game has dropped.

Also cause I work in scrubs for my profession too.





Back to keyboards, The chicony KB 5181 build isn't the best persay, both of the keyboards are made with 2 pieces of snap together plastic which was not fully snapped together when I got them, I had to snap them together a little better.  They are somewhat flimsy, the AT101W is better to beat off zombies with.  But the KB 5181 switch is pretty awesome... not as loud as blue cherries, it can be *really* loud if you bang on the keys, but less loud if you don't bottom out as much.  I have the feeling that prolonged typing on the KB 5181 may cause a lot of vibrations transmitted into the fingers and joints and might not be the best long term board.

Build quality isn't great but it's plenty fine for typing on.  I don't experience keyboard flex on it that hinders typing (I do experience keyboard flex on my MX8100 which causes me to miss letters at times).

Anyhow this guy is a good seller, his keyboards are new.  If you get it near opening bid it's a good deal.  I bought 2 of them before posting about it, cause I wanted my 2 before people start bidding them up.  He keeps selling one at a time, over and over..

[maxlugar]

Yeah..my sig was also taken from my favorite l4d2 group, "Boycotted by Left for dead 2".. http://steamcommunity.com/groups/L4D2CRASHONLOAD

I was screwed by valve, pre-ordered the damn game and was unable to play it for at about 2-3 after release because it was buggy, unable to play on drives formatted with FAT32.  Since I pre-ordered it of course now it has been fixed long after the price of the game has dropped.

Also cause I work in scrubs for my profession too.

Show Image

Show Image

Back to keyboards, The chicony KB 5181 build isn't the best persay, both of the keyboards are made with 2 pieces of snap together plastic which was not fully snapped together when I got them, I had to snap them together a little better.  They are somewhat flimsy, the AT101W is better to beat off zombies with.  But the KB 5181 switch is pretty awesome... not as loud as blue cherries, it can be *really* loud if you bang on the keys, but less loud if you don't bottom out as much.  I have the feeling that prolonged typing on the KB 5181 may cause a lot of vibrations transmitted into the fingers and joints and might not be the best long term board.

Build quality isn't great but it's plenty fine for typing on.  I don't experience keyboard flex on it that hinders typing (I do experience keyboard flex on my MX8100 which causes me to miss letters at times).

Anyhow this guy is a good seller, his keyboards are new.  If you get it near opening bid it's a good deal.  I bought 2 of them before posting about it, cause I wanted my 2 before people start bidding them up.  He keeps selling one at a time, over and over..

I  bought a dozen Chicony KB-5181 keyboards from the same ebay seller.
The plastics used in the cases are flimsy but there is no flex because the blue SMK Monterey key switches are mounted on a metal plate.  These keyboards work best with modern PCs using a "blue cube" ps/2 to USB converter.  At a minimum, they require a passive 5-pin AT to ps/2 adapter.

I think the key switches are pretty damn nice - light, but not too light, good tactile feel - much easier on the fingers than buckling spring keyboards. They are really clicky, but not  especially loud.   I can type extremely fast for a long time on the the KB-5181 without getting tired.  If find the clickiness entertaining, but not as entertaining as Cherry MX Blue key switches.

The multi-level height adjustment on the rear legs is a nice touch - similar to the Happy Hacking keyboard.  I also like the cheerrful bright green LEDs.

The one thing that bugs me about the build quality is that I occasionally find a key switch that has a slightly different sound or feel than the other keys.  For example, on one of my 5181s, all of the keys are uniform except for the F key which has a distinctly sharper tactile bump and makes a louder click than the others.

Overall, the Chicony KB-5181 is a very decent and practical clicky keyboard that I think many would enjoy typing on.  It's not in the same league as the classic Model M or Northgate boards, but the Monterey key switches have an interesting hybrid feel which is somewhere between Blue Cherries and buckling springs.   It's better than many current modern keyboards and the price is hard to beat.

[microsoft windows]

I like the Model M better than the ALPS primarily because the keys are smoother.

[maxlugar]

I like the Model M better than the ALPS primarily because the keys are smoother.

It depends on the Model M.  There can be great deal of variation between Model Ms and even among the different keys on the same Model M keyboard.

ALPS key switches feel more consistent because of their inherent design.

Overall, I prefer the typing feel of my Northgate Omnikey 102 over most of my Model Ms.  People have said that the IBM buckling spring keyboards were designed to simulate the IBM Selectric typewriter.  If memory serves me correctly, the Omnikey with white complicated ALPS key switches  feels more like the Selectric than the Model M.

[microsoft windows]

My Model M has definitely taken quite a beating over the years but still feels great. Although the one time when I don't really like buckling springs is the winter when it goes down to about 50 degrees in the bomb shelter.

[msiegel]

the one time when I don't really like buckling springs is the winter when it goes down to about 50 degrees in the bomb shelter.

yeah, low temperatures + high activation force = recipe for discomfort

[msiegel]

does the selectric generate much heat?

[Computer-Lab in Basement]

Please, let me know how it goes once you tried. I am also interested in this 'SMK Monterey switches' since some members here praised its tactile and feedback.

Ok now listen to this...
The first keyboard I bought from RNS-AUCTIONS was suppose to be a Chicony KB-5161 with white alps and AT/XT switchability.  They sent me a Chicony KB-5311 with rubber domes and no AT/XT switch.  So, being stupid, I decided to buy another board from them, was suppose to be an Elite 5181 AT keyboard with blue alps.  He sent me, the Chicony KB-5161 he was SUPPOSE to send me the first time.  And if that isn't bad enough, this CHicony KB-5161 is in deplorable condition, it looks like he pulled it out of a bucket of ashes or something.  AND, a few of the keyswitches are bad, which means I am sending this guy another message, telling him I would like a refund becasue he sent me the wrong keyboard YET AGAIN, and the keyboard he did send to me is defective.  I ought to get another free crappy keyboard out of this.

[microsoft windows]

Ok now listen to this...
The first keyboard I bought from RNS-AUCTIONS was suppose to be a Chicony KB-5161 with white alps and AT/XT switchability.  They sent me a Chicony KB-5311 with rubber domes and no AT/XT switch.  So, being stupid, I decided to buy another board from them, was suppose to be an Elite 5181 AT keyboard with blue alps.  He sent me, the Chicony KB-5161 he was SUPPOSE to send me the first time.  And if that isn't bad enough, this CHicony KB-5161 is in deplorable condition, it looks like he pulled it out of a bucket of ashes or something.  AND, a few of the keyswitches are bad, which means I am sending this guy another message, telling him I would like a refund becasue he sent me the wrong keyboard YET AGAIN, and the keyboard he did send to me is defective.  I ought to get another free crappy keyboard out of this.

Sounds like a good seller. You can't object to free keyboards. Show us a picture of the filthy thing!

[Computer-Lab in Basement]

Sounds like a good seller. You can't object to free keyboards. Show us a picture of the filthy thing!

Here it is; a filthy keyboard:





And here are some good clean keyboards:

[ch_123]

What sort of switches does that Chicony use?

[Computer-Lab in Basement]

I am going to send him a bad review.  And for ch_123,  the Chicony KB-5161 has genuine white alps keyswitches.  A few of them barely work, I have to pound on the key a few times to get it to register a keystroke.

[ch_123]

That's not on at all... Did the seller reply to your complaint?

[Computer-Lab in Basement]

That's not on at all... Did the seller reply to your complaint?

I sent him a bad review for the first one, I will send him a complaint about the second one later today, he will get back to me by Monday.  I hope that if I complain enough I might get my money back.  Then I will give him a bad review.

[ch_123]

In future, buy from some of the more reputable sellers =P

[PRISONER 24601]

I know there are more accurate ways of determining AT/XT status (indicator lights, 83/84 key, etc)... But I'm an amateur, so when I see an older 'board with no lock lights I just assume it's XT. Some day I will achieve uberGH status and have the abllity to glance at some obscure board in 1 sec and be all like

"that's a Romeo 204+, build in '86 cause the logo is a lighter shade of green. It's XT only cause it was a limited factory run for a the Rand corporation. You can tell because the serial number ends in 55XXXX. Also, the left control key is a factory second, there was a new guy on the assembly line that day"

Can you imagine all the attention I would get from the ladies? They'd be so impressed, I bet they'd let me fix their computers or something.

[microsoft windows]

Most sellers do virtually anything to avoid getting poor feedback. I bet you can manipulate this guy into giving you your money back. Then give him bad feedback anyway.

[ch_123]

I know there are more accurate ways of determining AT/XT status (indicator lights, 83/84 key, etc)... But I'm an amateur, so when I see an older 'board with no lock lights I just assume it's XT. Some day I will achieve uberGH status and have the abllity to glance at some obscure board in 1 sec and be all like

"that's a Romeo 204+, build in '86 cause the logo is a lighter shade of green. It's XT only cause it was a limited factory run for a the Rand corporation. You can tell because the serial number ends in 55XXXX. Also, the left control key is a factory second, there was a new guy on the assembly line that day"

Can you imagine all the attention I would get from the ladies? They'd be so impressed, I bet they'd let me fix their computers or something.

This is your fate, there's no way of escaping it.

[Computer-Lab in Basement]

I sent a complaint to RNS-AUCTIONS.  I hope they give me a refund.  I will alert you as of the result of my inquiry.

[Computer-Lab in Basement]

The item was not as described, so I should get a refund.  Unless, he intended to send me the keyboard I bought the first time.  But then, why wouldn't he just send me that one and the one I just ordered?

[Computer-Lab in Basement]

I just got a response back from RNS-AUCTIONS and they have yet again issued me a refund.  I think I will still leave them less than perfect feedback.

[ch_123]

Do you get to keep the keyboard?

[Computer-Lab in Basement]

yes i do.

[ch_123]

Nice.

You might be able to fix the broken switches. You can disassemble the switches quite easily. There's some guides around here. All you need are two flathead screwdrivers.

[chimera15]

fyi  I warned this seller about this board, that they weren't blue alps.  I was sick of it coming up on my searches for blue alps keyboards.  So he knew precisely what it was, and chose not to change his auction for at least a week or two after I told him and you bought it.

I noticed it wasn't coming up on my searches anymore, so I had hoped he had pulled it, guess not.

On a side note, I have bought a couple boards from this seller before and had no real problems like you have had.  It's definitely buyer beware with him though.  He doesn't have a clue what he's selling which can work positively in the buyer's favor in some cases.

[Buckling_Summer]

I have just lost one brand  new Chicony KB-5181 for $11 in eBay..
Some mysterious force pulled me back.. Maybe I am in the need for a Blue Cherries board first. I hope this seller comes back with more someday.

[J888www]

Since this Chicony 5181 is modeled after a Model M, it should be simple enough to dismantle the Chicony shell and fit it into a Model M shell ? Then you would have the near best of both worlds.
Or the Vintage Elite even.

Nope, the curvature of the steel plate may not be compatible.

[ch_123]

That assumes that the internal assembly of the Chicony would fit properly into the Model M shell. That's a pretty big assumption to make...

[maxlugar]

I have just lost one brand  new Chicony KB-5181 for $11 in eBay..
Some mysterious force pulled me back.. Maybe I am in the need for a Blue Cherries board first. I hope this seller comes back with more someday.

Don't worry, this seller has been posting a NIB 5181 every week on ebay for the past several months.  That's how I ended up with a dozen!

[maxlugar]

That assumes that the internal assembly of the Chicony would fit properly into the Model M shell. That's a pretty big assumption to make...

I'm looking at both of them right now. The spacing of each key section is exactly the same. The two potential problem areas are the cable and how to secure the 5181 guts to the Model M case.  It might work...

Edit:  The curvature of the Model M steel plate means that there would be more than enough room for the straight 5181 key assembly.  The problem is how to mount the 5181 assembly so the keys are high enough.  Model M keys have a much higher profile than the 5181 keys.