Dell AT-101 (Winkeyless version) - Vintage ALPS not worth it?

[ThoughtArtist]

First, I should say that I like the potential of these "Early" Black ALPS. But, across the board, the switches all feel very tight; smooth, but tight. I wanted to really like this, and I think I would have 23 years ago when this was new. But it is obvious that the switches haven't aged very well. I want to guess that the plastic has expanded, or something.

This begs the question. Is it really prudent to invest in vintage Alps boards? Do all Alps age like this? Hell, can I even expect my current Cherry Browns to still feel worth a damn in 20+ years?

What do you all think?

[chyros]

It's not really a question of ageing, more a question of condition. Alps' biggest weakness by far are their susceptibility to dirt and dust - even small amounts will make a noticeable difference. Heavy use also doesn't help. This is why I always keep stressing people shouldn't buy dirty Alps boards because the keyfeel WILL suck. NOS Alps are amazing though.

[ThoughtArtist]

It's not really a question of ageing, more a question of condition. Alps' biggest weakness by far are their susceptibility to dirt and dust - even small amounts will make a noticeable difference. Heavy use also doesn't help. This is why I always keep stressing people shouldn't buy dirty Alps boards because the keyfeel WILL suck. NOS Alps are amazing though.

Yeah, I haven't gone as far as taking apart the individual switches to clean them. I can say the board had a bit of dust in it and I gave it a once over with a vacuum, but that probably didn't do much. The board has a bit of yellowing so I don't know if maybe it was stored somewhere hot?

I still want to give it a chance, but I had read elsewhere that some of these older Alps switches just get this way over time, so maybe their's were just dirty. For instance, the stiff feeling is consistent across all the keys. I can tell more of a difference in sound and a slight difference in the tactility of the more used keys, but for instance, the F-keys and Print, Scroll, Pause keys feel just as stiff.

If I could I would like you to look at it in person, though that would be impossible. I did watch your videos on this board so I'm glad to have your input.

So maybe just clean the switch like you did in your video? Are there any other things you might suggest for these black Alps? I do like them as they remind me of Cherry Browns, so I want to do what I can to get them in shape if possible.

[ThoughtArtist]

Here's a pic from the numpad. What do you think?

[chyros]

The plate looks pretty spotless actually, but of course you hoovered that so that doesn't say much. I can see there's some stuff on the bottom of the keycaps, which looks like powder dust. Powder dust is THE WORST. It can turn brand-new keyboards into horrible pieces of crap - and I'm talking from personal experience here.

You can clean out the switches if you want; I made a video tutorial on how to do that. If they haven't been used too much while dirty, that should improve them considerably. You can't always make them feel like new though.

I'd like to stress that just AGE is really not a concern with Alps switches. If they're clean and unused, they'll feel great. They don't just                                                      **** up over time.

[merlin64]

I've tried SKCM Orange, Brown, Blue, Black, and White/Ivory Damped Alps switches. I've also tried the Matias Quiet Click. Out of all of those, the Blacks were my least favorite. I even tried the SKBM version of Blacks, those were worse.

You might be like me, and the Blacks just aren't your thing.

[ThoughtArtist]

The plate looks pretty spotless actually, but of course you hoovered that so that doesn't say much. I can see there's some stuff on the bottom of the keycaps, which looks like powder dust. Powder dust is THE WORST. It can turn brand-new keyboards into horrible pieces of crap - and I'm talking from personal experience here.

You can clean out the switches if you want; I made a video tutorial on how to do that. If they haven't been used too much while dirty, that should improve them considerably. You can't always make them feel like new though.

I'd like to stress that just AGE is really not a concern with Alps switches. If they're clean and unused, they'll feel great. They don't just                                                      **** up over time.

I didn't really vacuum the numpad much as I didn't take the caps off and vacuum it, I barely went over it with the caps still on it, but you can't really  see as much as in the picture. From what you described, I believe it was mainly the powder dust, because it's hard to capture with that camera. I will say, however, that even before I vacuumed the main key area, it looked much better than some of the keyboards I've seen at my workplace as there were no completely separate ecosystems in there! A couple of hairs, but mostly that fine "powder" dust.

I'll check it out further when I can actually take apart the switches. Until then, I'll leave the keyboard alone.

I'm glad to know that age alone doesn't mess them up, I got worried that it may have been a lost cause due to that, but I think there may be even a small bit of treasure hidden beneath the keys here. I like the idea of reconditioning something like this, because there is so much waste in the world and I feel like its better to try to fix what you can, within reason.

Thanks for the help!

[ThoughtArtist]

I've tried SKCM Orange, Brown, Blue, Black, and White/Ivory Damped Alps switches. I've also tried the Matias Quiet Click. Out of all of those, the Blacks were my least favorite. I even tried the SKBM version of Blacks, those were worse.

You might be like me, and the Blacks just aren't your thing.

Could be. I like the idea of the quieter switches. I like a bit of clack like with Cherry Browns, but I'm not sure if I want a clicky switch yet. I don't think these feel terrible, just maybe a good cleaning will help it out. Either way, I'll keep the board since it functions and I need a PS/2 board to program the Cherry Numpad I just bought.

 I may just try Matias eventually since I can't really afford to buy much vintage components, and where I live, there aren't any enthusiasts that I know.

Maybe I'll even try the clicky variety? I wish they sold the hybrid clickies like chryos demonstrated.

[klennkellon]

If you're going to go Vintage, try a Model M or a Model F from Ebay. Buckling springs are the best clicky switch.

[Mattr567]

If you're going to go Vintage, try a Model M or a Model F from Ebay. Buckling springs are the best clicky switch.

I feel a lot of people would disagree Model F and SKCM Blue are even in my book, haven't tried the F but I can imagine from my M.

[chyros]

If you're going to go Vintage, try a Model M or a Model F from Ebay. Buckling springs are the best clicky switch.

I feel a lot of people would disagree Model F and SKCM Blue are even in my book, haven't tried the F but I can imagine from my M.

The Model F is superb, seriously fantastic. You might be pleasantly surprised when you try it .

[Mattr567]

If you're going to go Vintage, try a Model M or a Model F from Ebay. Buckling springs are the best clicky switch.

I feel a lot of people would disagree Model F and SKCM Blue are even in my book, haven't tried the F but I can imagine from my M.

The Model F is superb, seriously fantastic. You might be pleasantly surprised when you try it .

Oh god I've been wanting  a 4704 for forever.

[eohmiller]

Unfortunately, I don't know much about Blacks. I've had the opportunity to play with Cream Dampened, White SKCM and White SKFM, Orange, and Green Alps, all of them between 20 and 25 years old. I enjoyed typing on all of them, but not before cleaning!
Orange are by far my favourite. I can say, however, that the first orange board I had needed extensive cleaning, and felt terrible to type on before I got around to opening up each and every switch to clean them. It makes a HUGE difference. So don't judge a dirty switch. That said, Blacks may not be for you! I'd start by opening a few, cleaning them, and type in that cluster to judge.

EDIT: If you still don't like them after cleaning, let me know! I'm curious about blacks and would love the opportunity to try them out!

[ThoughtArtist]

Unfortunately, I don't know much about Blacks. I've had the opportunity to play with Cream Dampened, White SKCM and White SKFM, Orange, and Green Alps, all of them between 20 and 25 years old. I enjoyed typing on all of them, but not before cleaning!
Orange are by far my favourite. I can say, however, that the first orange board I had needed extensive cleaning, and felt terrible to type on before I got around to opening up each and every switch to clean them. It makes a HUGE difference. So don't judge a dirty switch. That said, Blacks may not be for you! I'd start by opening a few, cleaning them, and type in that cluster to judge.

EDIT: If you still don't like them after cleaning, let me know! I'm curious about blacks and would love the opportunity to try them out!

I cleaned and linearised a few switches and they feel like butter now.

I actually got a NIB board with complicated Whites and for a tactile switch, I like those a lot more than the Blacks. I don't think the Blacks were really dirty, they just seem to have lesser quality tactile leaves, from what I can tell. But I'm new to Alps so it could be something else.

[chyros]

I don't think the Blacks were really dirty, they just seem to have lesser quality tactile leaves, from what I can tell. But I'm new to Alps so it could be something else.

no, that's what I'd say is the case as well. Note that Alps tactile leaves inherently have a different, less tactile feel than clicky Alps due to the design of the click mechanism.

[ThoughtArtist]

I don't think the Blacks were really dirty, they just seem to have lesser quality tactile leaves, from what I can tell. But I'm new to Alps so it could be something else.

no, that's what I'd say is the case as well. Note that Alps tactile leaves inherently have a different, less tactile feel than clicky Alps due to the design of the click mechanism.

I noticed that, with the Whites, they seem to actuate a bit higher (though I've not tested on the computer!) and feel less "choppy". I'm really liking those so far. I never even bothered with Cherry clicky switches because I couldn't get excited about the design.

[eohmiller]

Unfortunately, I don't know much about Blacks. I've had the opportunity to play with Cream Dampened, White SKCM and White SKFM, Orange, and Green Alps, all of them between 20 and 25 years old. I enjoyed typing on all of them, but not before cleaning!
Orange are by far my favourite. I can say, however, that the first orange board I had needed extensive cleaning, and felt terrible to type on before I got around to opening up each and every switch to clean them. It makes a HUGE difference. So don't judge a dirty switch. That said, Blacks may not be for you! I'd start by opening a few, cleaning them, and type in that cluster to judge.

EDIT: If you still don't like them after cleaning, let me know! I'm curious about blacks and would love the opportunity to try them out!

I cleaned and linearised a few switches and they feel like butter now.

I actually got a NIB board with complicated Whites and for a tactile switch, I like those a lot more than the Blacks. I don't think the Blacks were really dirty, they just seem to have lesser quality tactile leaves, from what I can tell. But I'm new to Alps so it could be something else.

Glad to hear it! I'll have to keep that in mind if I come across some Blacks.