Author Topic: Das Keyboard III vs FILCO  (Read 13073 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline joneslee85

  • HHKB Scrub JP
  • Thread Starter
  • Posts: 461
  • Location: Sydney, Australia
  • Professional Rubyist programmer!
    • Ruby Journal
Das Keyboard III vs FILCO
« on: Tue, 15 December 2009, 05:47:24 »
The question is why FILCO is better than Das? I read that Das has some controller problems, but is there any other things that Filco surpass Das?
⌨Realforce 104UG HiPro ⌨Novatouch TKL ⌨IBM Model F104 ⌨Realforce 87U ⌨HHKB Lite 2 (JAP) ⌨HHKB Pro 2 ⌨Filco Tenkeyless (Brown MX) ⌨DAS III Ultimate ⌨ KBC Poker II (Red MX) with Gold FMJ Aluminium case ⌨OTD 38GT with MKC Alum case and Red Switches ⌨ Leopold FC660C ⌨LZ-SE Clear MX Switch (only 34 made) ⌨ Vortex Pure Pro UK Layout ⌨ and more and more and more!!

Offline leos

  • Posts: 178
Das Keyboard III vs FILCO
« Reply #1 on: Tue, 15 December 2009, 06:00:01 »
its your opinion if you forget the controller issues.The das case looks better for me and the filco keys are far better then the das keys. Also the klicky sound is differed for me.

das

filco
« Last Edit: Tue, 15 December 2009, 06:11:58 by leos »
HHKB 2 Pro Black in use :typing:

Offline ch_123

  • * Exalted Elder
  • Posts: 9246
  • Hello Baton Rouge
Das Keyboard III vs FILCO
« Reply #2 on: Tue, 15 December 2009, 06:11:48 »
Build quality is meant to be better on the Filcos. Ive seen more than one bashed up Das

Offline leos

  • Posts: 178
Das Keyboard III vs FILCO
« Reply #3 on: Tue, 15 December 2009, 07:03:19 »
Quote from: ch_123;142540
Build quality is meant to be better on the Filcos. Ive seen more than one bashed up Das

meant??? i have the most of the filcos and all the das until version 3 without S.
So i can compare. Just i say each one has a differed opinion.

I am not a das funboy but it is not so bad as you think.


If i chose between das or filco then i take TOPRE.

I know this going to flame war............................
HHKB 2 Pro Black in use :typing:

Offline timw4mail

  • Posts: 2097
    • https://timshomepage.net
Das Keyboard III vs FILCO
« Reply #4 on: Tue, 15 December 2009, 07:16:03 »
The Das is designed by a marketing company, the Filco is designed by a keyboard company, therein lies the issues of quality control on the Das side.
Pointing devices- CH Products DT255 (With Lapis Lazuli ball), Razer Salmosa, Logitech MX400
Buckling Springs - IBM Model M 1391401 (1987) & IBM Model F AT
Cherry MX Blue Switches - iOne Scorpius M10 "otaku"(2009) & OCN-branded Ducky keyboard
Cherry MX Brown Switches - Compaq MX11800 & Cherry G80-8963LUBUS-2 (MX8100) & Filco FKBN91M/JB (Japanese Tenkeyless)

Cherry MX Black Switches -  US Micro Products Metal Keyboard USMP-KX065-TB-USB-A
Fake Cherry MX White Switches - Qtronix Scorpius 32 keypad &  Chicony KB-5191
White round SMK Switches - Gold VTech label keyboard
SMK blue Monterrey Switches - Chicony KB-5181
Damped tactile ALPS - Apple AEKII
Blue NEC Switches - NEC APC-H412


Quote from: bigpook;129625
: ) life is like a box of webwit. you never know what you are going to get.



Offline ch_123

  • * Exalted Elder
  • Posts: 9246
  • Hello Baton Rouge
Das Keyboard III vs FILCO
« Reply #5 on: Tue, 15 December 2009, 07:32:23 »
Quote from: leos;142542
meant??? i have the most of the filcos and all the das until version 3 without S.
So i can compare. Just i say each one has a differed opinion.

I am not a das funboy but it is not so bad as you think.

Based my opinion on a number of bashed up Das 3s I have seen. Filcos don't have that problem.

Also, are you saying that you have all of them up to and including the Das 3, or do you not have one?

Quote
If i chose between das or filco then i take TOPRE.

I know this going to flame war............................

Topres are well built alright, but that doesn't have much to do with what the OP asked.
« Last Edit: Tue, 15 December 2009, 07:40:10 by ch_123 »

Offline AndrewZorn

  • Posts: 1575
Das Keyboard III vs FILCO
« Reply #6 on: Tue, 15 December 2009, 07:38:33 »
if the people behind the Das admit problems, how can you say it is better than a filco
NOPPOO CHOC MINI FILCO TENKEYLESS KBC POKER CHERRY MX11900
In order of preference, I\'m afraid.

Offline leos

  • Posts: 178
Das Keyboard III vs FILCO
« Reply #7 on: Tue, 15 December 2009, 08:15:03 »
Quote from: ch_123;142548
Based my opinion on a number of bashed up Das 3s I have seen. Filcos don't have that problem.

Also, are you saying that you have all of them up to and including the Das 3, or do you not have one?


yea i know the das3 has the controler issue. and yes i have all the das except the das "s". I just say that the build quality is not so bad as you think.
HHKB 2 Pro Black in use :typing:

Offline leos

  • Posts: 178
Das Keyboard III vs FILCO
« Reply #8 on: Tue, 15 December 2009, 08:19:35 »
Quote from: timw4mail;142543
The Das is designed by a marketing company, the Filco is designed by a keyboard company, therein lies the issues of quality control on the Das side.


dont think so, because both of them they are come from a real keyboard company...
both are oem boards

costar
HHKB 2 Pro Black in use :typing:

Offline timw4mail

  • Posts: 2097
    • https://timshomepage.net
Das Keyboard III vs FILCO
« Reply #9 on: Tue, 15 December 2009, 08:22:12 »
Quote from: leos;142556
dont think so, because both of them they are come from a real keyboard company...
both are oem boards

costar

There's a difference between design and manufacturing. I almost think Diatech designed their own controllers, considering how almost every other branded costar keyboard seems to have some issue or another.
Pointing devices- CH Products DT255 (With Lapis Lazuli ball), Razer Salmosa, Logitech MX400
Buckling Springs - IBM Model M 1391401 (1987) & IBM Model F AT
Cherry MX Blue Switches - iOne Scorpius M10 "otaku"(2009) & OCN-branded Ducky keyboard
Cherry MX Brown Switches - Compaq MX11800 & Cherry G80-8963LUBUS-2 (MX8100) & Filco FKBN91M/JB (Japanese Tenkeyless)

Cherry MX Black Switches -  US Micro Products Metal Keyboard USMP-KX065-TB-USB-A
Fake Cherry MX White Switches - Qtronix Scorpius 32 keypad &  Chicony KB-5191
White round SMK Switches - Gold VTech label keyboard
SMK blue Monterrey Switches - Chicony KB-5181
Damped tactile ALPS - Apple AEKII
Blue NEC Switches - NEC APC-H412


Quote from: bigpook;129625
: ) life is like a box of webwit. you never know what you are going to get.



Offline leos

  • Posts: 178
Das Keyboard III vs FILCO
« Reply #10 on: Tue, 15 December 2009, 08:25:20 »
Quote from: AndrewZorn;142551
if the people behind the Das admit problems, how can you say it is better than a filco


i dont say its better i say that some things on das like better then on the filco.

1, the case
2, the leds

due the controller issues its no comperable to a filco.

i would like to have one keyboard with the look of das and the keys of a filco. Without controller problems.
HHKB 2 Pro Black in use :typing:

Offline leos

  • Posts: 178
Das Keyboard III vs FILCO
« Reply #11 on: Tue, 15 December 2009, 08:31:13 »
Quote from: timw4mail;142557
There's a difference between design and manufacturing. I almost think Diatech designed their own controllers, considering how almost every other branded costar keyboard seems to have some issue or another.


any proof that Diatec designed their own controllers? they have also problems.

filco test


filco another test

filco again

nobody is perfect even diatec!!!!!
« Last Edit: Tue, 15 December 2009, 08:37:36 by leos »
HHKB 2 Pro Black in use :typing:

Offline AndrewZorn

  • Posts: 1575
Das Keyboard III vs FILCO
« Reply #12 on: Tue, 15 December 2009, 08:56:12 »
yes but das is a lot less perfect!!!!!!

EDIT arent those all Zero boards?  filco = majestouch around here
NOPPOO CHOC MINI FILCO TENKEYLESS KBC POKER CHERRY MX11900
In order of preference, I\'m afraid.

Offline 1839cc

  • Posts: 360
Das Keyboard III vs FILCO
« Reply #13 on: Tue, 15 December 2009, 08:59:21 »
Wasn't it the ALPS based Filcos that had that issue, and not the ones with Cherry switches?
i have seen unix admins with john deere trucker hats, and even seen a man in a nascar shirt correct a passerby's klingon.


Offline bigpook

  • Posts: 3036
Das Keyboard III vs FILCO
« Reply #14 on: Tue, 15 December 2009, 09:07:02 »
I have both but would go with the filco.

The filco has better keys, the letters are wearing  off on the Das after about a year of use.The filco is still going strong.

The Das is all shiny which may be a plus for some users. For me it looks cheap and shows smudges and finger prints to easily.

I  don't have the issue with the controller that some do, but maybe thats because I don't type over 100 wpm.
HHKB Pro 2 : Unicomp Spacesaver : IBM Model M : DasIII    

Offline leos

  • Posts: 178
Das Keyboard III vs FILCO
« Reply #15 on: Tue, 15 December 2009, 09:12:43 »
Quote from: AndrewZorn;142564
yes but das is a lot less perfect!!!!!!

EDIT arent those all Zero boards?  filco = majestouch around here


onother filco link

not all of them



youtube user is wellington1869....maybe a geekhack member??
HHKB 2 Pro Black in use :typing:

Offline ch_123

  • * Exalted Elder
  • Posts: 9246
  • Hello Baton Rouge
Das Keyboard III vs FILCO
« Reply #16 on: Tue, 15 December 2009, 09:19:13 »
Quote from: leos;142572
onother filco link

not all of them



youtube user is wellington1869....maybe a geekhack member??


Yes, that's a Filco Zero he's using. The Majestouch ones don't have those problems.

Offline leos

  • Posts: 178
Das Keyboard III vs FILCO
« Reply #17 on: Tue, 15 December 2009, 09:21:27 »
Quote from: bigpook;142569
I have both but would go with the filco.

The filco has better keys, the letters are wearing  off on the Das after about a year of use.The filco is still going strong.


yes the keys are superior

Quote from: bigpook;142569
The Das is all shiny which may be a plus for some users. For me it looks cheap and shows smudges and finger prints to easily.

its your point of view. i like shiny. Like the ps3

Quote from: bigpook;142569

I  don't have the issue with the controller that some do, but maybe thats because I don't type over 100 wpm.


btw, i can reproduce the issues on das because i write lot in bursts.
words like.... the , das, data, klären, nockenwelle, and many others.
HHKB 2 Pro Black in use :typing:

Offline bigpook

  • Posts: 3036
Das Keyboard III vs FILCO
« Reply #18 on: Tue, 15 December 2009, 09:30:02 »
Sounds like you may like the Das then, but the controller issue will hose you.

Filco?

I have a PS3 too. Its on the shelf and I  don't actually touch the shiny parts. I dust it occasionaly.
Shiny is personal pref., its all good.

All in all, I like the filco better mostly because its not shiny. The letters wearing off of the keys can be a show stopper for some people, I don't really care so much.
The filco is also cleaner looking to me. But all of that is just my personal opinion.
« Last Edit: Tue, 15 December 2009, 09:32:45 by bigpook »
HHKB Pro 2 : Unicomp Spacesaver : IBM Model M : DasIII    

Offline leos

  • Posts: 178
Das Keyboard III vs FILCO
« Reply #19 on: Tue, 15 December 2009, 09:30:05 »
Quote from: ch_123;142575
Yes, that's a Filco Zero he's using. The Majestouch ones don't have those problems.


you are right, i found this link
geekhack

i asume because i collect the boards and dont use them, going to this mistake.

seems only the fukka filco has this problems.
HHKB 2 Pro Black in use :typing:

Offline leos

  • Posts: 178
Das Keyboard III vs FILCO
« Reply #20 on: Tue, 15 December 2009, 09:36:54 »
Quote from: bigpook;142581
Sounds like you may like the Das then, but the controller issue will hose you.

Filco?

I have a PS3 too. Its on the shelf and I  don't actually touch the shiny parts. I dust it occasionaly.
Shiny is personal pref., its all good.



like the das shiny look ....yes alot, not the errors.
btw, here in germany we have only the choice to go das, because we dont have a distri company for filco or topre.

i use @work and @home only topre. I collect every mechanical keyboard i found on ebay or lokal markts here.
HHKB 2 Pro Black in use :typing:

Offline leos

  • Posts: 178
Das Keyboard III vs FILCO
« Reply #21 on: Tue, 15 December 2009, 09:42:09 »
Quote from: ripster;142573
Old Das versus Filco review here.  In terms of the most important thing, key feel, the two are almost identical.   Haven't seen the new one yet.  They are taking preorders (again.)



we must wait until early 2010 to take a look to the new das ssss.
http://www.getdigital.de/products/Das_Keyboard_Model_S
HHKB 2 Pro Black in use :typing:

Offline leos

  • Posts: 178
Das Keyboard III vs FILCO
« Reply #22 on: Tue, 15 December 2009, 09:46:35 »
Quote from: ripster;142585
And remember even on that Fukka Filco the problem was not felt to be as bad as the Das's.   So in other words, plenty of people have used the Filco Fukka and never seen the problem.

same with the das if you dont write above 100WPM

how much is 100 wpm in charakters per min???
---edit---
google helps us wikipedia

i think i am under 100wpm. if i use this open source trainer i ll make 470+ keystrokes per min. If i use tprx i make 132 wpm.
who has right?
Quote from: ripster;142585
Das has superior distribution and (usually) marketing.   The stupid Japanese keep cranking out keyboards like this.

Not in europe

look at the big shops and you find nothing about a "das"
« Last Edit: Tue, 15 December 2009, 10:09:55 by leos »
HHKB 2 Pro Black in use :typing:

Offline erricrice

  • Posts: 638
Das Keyboard III vs FILCO
« Reply #23 on: Tue, 15 December 2009, 10:02:18 »
Quote from: leos;142588
same with the das if you dont write above 100WPM

how much is 100 wpm in charakters per min???



Not in europe

look at the big shops and you find nothing about a "das"

100 wpm is 500 cpm.

But it is not the sustained speed that is the problem it is the bursts, like you said before on words like the, and , .com stuff like that it might cause a problem.  The first review I saw of the zero fukka the problem was with notepad becoming ntoepad because he bursts that word very very quickly.

But I'm typing on a zero fukka right now, and have been for about a week and have only had it transpose a few times, and it was on very very fast roll.  I type regularly at about 80 wpm and get up to 100 if I'm trying to type for speed.
I\'m selling all my Shizz! Please buy it!

White ALPS: Northgate Omnikey 101-NCS(Real-Complicated)****Filco Zero FKBN87Z/EB(Fukka Simplifieds)****Siig MiniTouch(XM Simplifieds)
Black ALPS: Black Dell AT-101W(Real-Complicated)****ABS M1(Modded Black ALPS, Linear)
Buckling Spring: Model M 1391401(1988 & 1993)
Cherry Blues: DAS III Pro
Cherry Blacks: Cherry G80-11900
Cherry Browns: 3X Cherry G80-8113LRCUS-2
Cherry MY: G81-7000HPBUS-2****G81-3000LANUS-0****Modded to 20g
Rubber Dome: HHKB Lite 2 (White & Black)

Logitech G5[/FONT]
Erricrice\'s Song of the Day: Gorillaz - El Mañana
Yup, Blatantly stealing this from you Kishy, hope you don\'t mind, it\'s a great idea.

Offline bigpook

  • Posts: 3036
Das Keyboard III vs FILCO
« Reply #24 on: Tue, 15 December 2009, 10:28:20 »
FWIW, I have the fukka filco and don't have a problem with transposition errors.
It's a nice keyboard too.
HHKB Pro 2 : Unicomp Spacesaver : IBM Model M : DasIII    

Offline erricrice

  • Posts: 638
Das Keyboard III vs FILCO
« Reply #25 on: Tue, 15 December 2009, 10:45:54 »
Quote from: bigpook;142594
FWIW, I have the fukka filco and don't have a problem with transposition errors.
It's a nice keyboard too.


Yeah I'm loving it!  Definitely a good purchase.
I\'m selling all my Shizz! Please buy it!

White ALPS: Northgate Omnikey 101-NCS(Real-Complicated)****Filco Zero FKBN87Z/EB(Fukka Simplifieds)****Siig MiniTouch(XM Simplifieds)
Black ALPS: Black Dell AT-101W(Real-Complicated)****ABS M1(Modded Black ALPS, Linear)
Buckling Spring: Model M 1391401(1988 & 1993)
Cherry Blues: DAS III Pro
Cherry Blacks: Cherry G80-11900
Cherry Browns: 3X Cherry G80-8113LRCUS-2
Cherry MY: G81-7000HPBUS-2****G81-3000LANUS-0****Modded to 20g
Rubber Dome: HHKB Lite 2 (White & Black)

Logitech G5[/FONT]
Erricrice\'s Song of the Day: Gorillaz - El Mañana
Yup, Blatantly stealing this from you Kishy, hope you don\'t mind, it\'s a great idea.

Offline elbowglue

  • Posts: 1110
Das Keyboard III vs FILCO
« Reply #26 on: Tue, 15 December 2009, 11:03:11 »
I find the das great for typing, I never hit the transposition problem, although I have had to modify my pattern of typing just for this keyboard.

This is how I type now:  

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ik5MgEas3VY

It's awesome because I never transpose letters anymore.  Thank you das keyboard you have changed my life.
My keyboards: Filco Cherry Blue Tenkeyless(daily home), Compaq MX11800 (modded to blacks), Compaq "MX 84u",  Wellington\'s Dampened Endurapro, Pinkalicious Filco Blue Cherry, Chicony KB-5191, Chicony KB-5181, Desko MOS 5023 UP "elbowglue" spos (modded to blues), Siig Minitouch (monterey blue), SMK-88 (blue cherries), Ricercar SPOS
Smallest to biggest keyboards in inches (Length X Height) - Length is most important for a midline mouse position

KBC Poker: 11.6 x 3.9 - HHKB: 11.6 x 4.3 - Siig Minitouch (Geekhack Space Saver): 11.6 x 6 - Deck/Tg3 82: 12 x 6 - Noppoo Choc Mini 12.4 x 5.3 - Compaq "MX 84u": 13.1 x 7.5 - Filco Tenkeyless: 14 x 5.3 - Cherry "ricercar spos" G86-62410EUAGSA: 14 x 7.75 - Topre Realforce 86u: 14.4 x 6.65 - Desko "elbowglue spos" MOS 5023 UP: 14.5 x 8.4 - IBM Model M Spacesaver: 15.3 x 7 - G80-1800: 15.9 x 7.1 - Adesso MKB-125B: 16 x 7.3 - Compaq Mx11800, Cherry G80-11900: 16.25 x 7.5 - Filco Standard: 17.3 x 5.4 - Unicomp Endurapro: 17.9 x 7.1 - Adesso MKB-135B: 18.3 x 6.0 - Cherry G80-3000: 18.5 x 7.6 - IBM Model M, Unicomp Customizer: 19.3 x 8.27

Offline ch_123

  • * Exalted Elder
  • Posts: 9246
  • Hello Baton Rouge
Das Keyboard III vs FILCO
« Reply #27 on: Tue, 15 December 2009, 12:11:18 »
Quote from: leos;142584
like the das shiny look ....yes alot, not the errors.
btw, here in germany we have only the choice to go das, because we dont have a distri company for filco or topre.

i use @work and @home only topre. I collect every mechanical keyboard i found on ebay or lokal markts here.


There's a company in the UK that sells them. They ship to Europe too. Some company in Finland sells Topres too.

Offline leos

  • Posts: 178
Das Keyboard III vs FILCO
« Reply #28 on: Tue, 15 December 2009, 12:18:31 »
Quote from: ch_123;142610
There's a company in the UK that sells them. They ship to Europe too. Some company in Finland sells Topres too.


keyboardco.com??? ...they dont have differed filcos until mid Januar.
and www.verkkokauppa.com in finland ....sells only the 105keys Realforce.

if you know another company who sells the HHKB and the realfonce ansi layout plz tell us.
HHKB 2 Pro Black in use :typing:

Offline ch_123

  • * Exalted Elder
  • Posts: 9246
  • Hello Baton Rouge
Das Keyboard III vs FILCO
« Reply #29 on: Tue, 15 December 2009, 12:20:06 »
Keyboardco sells the ANSI Filcos already.

Offline leos

  • Posts: 178
Das Keyboard III vs FILCO
« Reply #30 on: Tue, 15 December 2009, 12:46:13 »
Quote from: ch_123;142613
Keyboardco sells the ANSI Filcos already.



FKB104M/EP      Pink Filco Majestouch, Tactile Action, USA Keyboard - ETA Mid Jan      £95.00     Out of Stock   

FKB104MC/EP      Pink Filco Majestouch, Click Action, USA Keyboard - ETA Mid Jan      £95.00     Out of Stock   

FKB22MB      Filco Majestouch Ten Key Keypad, Tactile Action - New      £40.00     In Stock   

FKBN104M/EB      Filco Majestouch N-Key rollover, Tactile Action, USA Keyboard - New      £95.00     Out of Stock   

FKBN104MC/EB      Filco Majestouch N-Key rollover, Click Action, USA Keyboard - ETA Mid Jan      £95.00     Out of Stock   

FKBN104ML/EB      Filco Majestouch N-Key rollover, Linear Action, USA Keyboard - New      £95.00     In Stock   

FKBN105M/UKB      UK Filco Majestouch N-Key rollover, Tactile Action - ETA Mid Jan      £95.00     Out of Stock   

FKBN105MC/UKB      UK Filco Majestouch N-Key rollover, Click Action - ETA Mid Jan      £95.00     Out of Stock   

FKBN105ML/UKB      UK Filco Majestouch N-Key rollover, Linear Action - ETA Mid Jan     £95.00     Out of Stock   

FKBN87M/EB      Filco Tenkeyless N-Key rollover, Tactile Action, USA Keyboard - ETA Mid Jan      £90.00     Out of Stock   

FKBN87MC/EB      Filco Tenkeyless N-Key rollover, Click Action, USA Keyboard - ETA Mid Jan  



lot of them are out of stock. Not very good for christmas business
HHKB 2 Pro Black in use :typing:

Offline ch_123

  • * Exalted Elder
  • Posts: 9246
  • Hello Baton Rouge
Das Keyboard III vs FILCO
« Reply #31 on: Tue, 15 December 2009, 13:11:21 »
Indeed so. I guess you'll just have to wait a month.

Offline leos

  • Posts: 178
Das Keyboard III vs FILCO
« Reply #32 on: Tue, 15 December 2009, 13:13:32 »
No need to wait anymore. I have all the filcos except the pinky one.
« Last Edit: Tue, 15 December 2009, 14:13:53 by leos »
HHKB 2 Pro Black in use :typing:

Offline leos

  • Posts: 178
Das Keyboard III vs FILCO
« Reply #33 on: Tue, 15 December 2009, 16:17:32 »
Quote from: ripster;142675
NO Pinky ONE for Xmas!!!

nö this christmas nikolaus brought to me as gift lam47 otaku.
HHKB 2 Pro Black in use :typing:

Offline joneslee85

  • HHKB Scrub JP
  • Thread Starter
  • Posts: 461
  • Location: Sydney, Australia
  • Professional Rubyist programmer!
    • Ruby Journal
Das Keyboard III vs FILCO
« Reply #34 on: Wed, 16 December 2009, 02:59:03 »
Geezuss, I could not believe this topic is DAS ('that') HOT!! What about N-Key rollover? It's seems to me Das doesn't support NKey. But Das surely looks stylish.
⌨Realforce 104UG HiPro ⌨Novatouch TKL ⌨IBM Model F104 ⌨Realforce 87U ⌨HHKB Lite 2 (JAP) ⌨HHKB Pro 2 ⌨Filco Tenkeyless (Brown MX) ⌨DAS III Ultimate ⌨ KBC Poker II (Red MX) with Gold FMJ Aluminium case ⌨OTD 38GT with MKC Alum case and Red Switches ⌨ Leopold FC660C ⌨LZ-SE Clear MX Switch (only 34 made) ⌨ Vortex Pure Pro UK Layout ⌨ and more and more and more!!

Offline leos

  • Posts: 178
Das Keyboard III vs FILCO
« Reply #35 on: Wed, 16 December 2009, 05:26:20 »
Quote from: joneslee85;142823
Geezuss, I could not believe this topic is DAS ('that') HOT!! What about N-Key rollover? It's seems to me Das doesn't support NKey. But Das surely looks stylish.

N-Key rollover?

the old Das 3 has N-Key ?12? over usb but has controller issues if you writte faster then 100wpm or in bursts.

Filco has N-Key 6 over usb and full N-Key over PS2.

the new das Model S was recalling due to a manufacturing defect. We must wait until januar to see how good or not the new re-relauncht model s is.

btw i find the old das 3 if you writte in a speed about 40-50 wpm (200-250 keystrokes per min) is better then a filco. I had also the usb connect problems that other people here have not.
« Last Edit: Wed, 16 December 2009, 06:12:30 by leos »
HHKB 2 Pro Black in use :typing:

Offline AndrewZorn

  • Posts: 1575
Das Keyboard III vs FILCO
« Reply #36 on: Wed, 16 December 2009, 07:58:07 »
12 keys over USB!  Das is a true innovation!


seriously, we're still going on about this?
NOPPOO CHOC MINI FILCO TENKEYLESS KBC POKER CHERRY MX11900
In order of preference, I\'m afraid.

Offline erricrice

  • Posts: 638
Das Keyboard III vs FILCO
« Reply #37 on: Wed, 16 December 2009, 08:05:20 »
Quote from: AndrewZorn;142851
12 keys over USB!  Das is a true innovation!


seriously, we're still going on about this?


Hey leave them alone, they're new lol.

Guys, USB can only support 6 keys due to it's spec, so DAS may claim more than that, but it is really impossible.

(Although I do remember hearing something about it sending the characters in more than one burst to achieve more than 6 but still)
I\'m selling all my Shizz! Please buy it!

White ALPS: Northgate Omnikey 101-NCS(Real-Complicated)****Filco Zero FKBN87Z/EB(Fukka Simplifieds)****Siig MiniTouch(XM Simplifieds)
Black ALPS: Black Dell AT-101W(Real-Complicated)****ABS M1(Modded Black ALPS, Linear)
Buckling Spring: Model M 1391401(1988 & 1993)
Cherry Blues: DAS III Pro
Cherry Blacks: Cherry G80-11900
Cherry Browns: 3X Cherry G80-8113LRCUS-2
Cherry MY: G81-7000HPBUS-2****G81-3000LANUS-0****Modded to 20g
Rubber Dome: HHKB Lite 2 (White & Black)

Logitech G5[/FONT]
Erricrice\'s Song of the Day: Gorillaz - El Mañana
Yup, Blatantly stealing this from you Kishy, hope you don\'t mind, it\'s a great idea.

Offline itlnstln

  • Posts: 13093
Das Keyboard III vs FILCO
« Reply #38 on: Wed, 16 December 2009, 08:09:50 »
Quote from: erricrice;142855
Hey leave them alone, they're new lol.
 
Guys, USB can only support 6 keys due to it's spec, so DAS may claim more than that, but it is really impossible.
 
(Although I do remember hearing something about it sending the characters in more than one burst to achieve more than 6 but still)

They (Costar, really) were doing some firmware finagling to make the 12KRO work.  Unfortunately, it didn't.  It's not impossible, it's just not standard (using the HID driver, that is).  If you use a custom driver, you can do NKRO, but that would be limited to the OSs the drivers were written for, of course, and you might lose some PnP capability.


Offline erricrice

  • Posts: 638
Das Keyboard III vs FILCO
« Reply #39 on: Wed, 16 December 2009, 09:37:39 »
Quote from: itlnstln;142858
They (Costar, really) were doing some firmware finagling to make the 12KRO work.  Unfortunately, it didn't.  It's not impossible, it's just not standard (using the HID driver, that is).  If you use a custom driver, you can do NKRO, but that would be limited to the OSs the drivers were written for, of course, and you might lose some PnP capability.


Yeah, that's what it was, I just didn't feel like finding the post that explained it lol...
I\'m selling all my Shizz! Please buy it!

White ALPS: Northgate Omnikey 101-NCS(Real-Complicated)****Filco Zero FKBN87Z/EB(Fukka Simplifieds)****Siig MiniTouch(XM Simplifieds)
Black ALPS: Black Dell AT-101W(Real-Complicated)****ABS M1(Modded Black ALPS, Linear)
Buckling Spring: Model M 1391401(1988 & 1993)
Cherry Blues: DAS III Pro
Cherry Blacks: Cherry G80-11900
Cherry Browns: 3X Cherry G80-8113LRCUS-2
Cherry MY: G81-7000HPBUS-2****G81-3000LANUS-0****Modded to 20g
Rubber Dome: HHKB Lite 2 (White & Black)

Logitech G5[/FONT]
Erricrice\'s Song of the Day: Gorillaz - El Mañana
Yup, Blatantly stealing this from you Kishy, hope you don\'t mind, it\'s a great idea.

Offline Mnemonix

  • Posts: 210
Das Keyboard III vs FILCO
« Reply #40 on: Wed, 16 December 2009, 09:47:02 »
Quote from: erricrice;142855
Guys, USB can only support 6 keys due to it's spec, so DAS may claim more than that, but it is really impossible.


Unless, of course, you are counting in the modifier keys; then it's 14KRO using the standard USB HID driver. :wink:

"Real" 12KRO might be possible by registering as two USB keyboards, but that would be like begging for trouble.
FWIW, no, it's impossible to do better than 6KRO over USB w/o special drivers.

Offline leos

  • Posts: 178
Das Keyboard III vs FILCO
« Reply #41 on: Wed, 16 December 2009, 09:50:16 »
Quote from: AndrewZorn;142851
12 keys over USB!  Das is a true innovation!


seriously, we're still going on about this?


http://www.daskeyboard.com/

"Fast typists and gamers will be glad to hear Das Keyboard has an n-key rollover function allowing up to 12 keys to be pressed simultaneously. Finally, the new Das Keyboard has an extra long USB cable that fits through your desk grommet and keeps your workspace neat and tidy."

the earlier das 3 could register more then 6 keys over usb (perhaps they tune the controller firmware). The connect errors come after:becky:
HHKB 2 Pro Black in use :typing:

Offline AndrewZorn

  • Posts: 1575
Das Keyboard III vs FILCO
« Reply #42 on: Wed, 16 December 2009, 09:58:40 »
OH ****, nevermind, guess i was wrong

EDIT anyone want to trade their Das III for this puny ""*NKRO*"" filco that can only do 6KRO on USB?
NOPPOO CHOC MINI FILCO TENKEYLESS KBC POKER CHERRY MX11900
In order of preference, I\'m afraid.

Offline Mnemonix

  • Posts: 210
Das Keyboard III vs FILCO
« Reply #43 on: Wed, 16 December 2009, 10:06:05 »
Quote from: leos;142903
Fast typists and gamers will be glad to hear Das Keyboard has an n-key rollover function allowing up to 12 keys to be pressed simultaneously.


Clicking on "Learn more":
Quote
Das Keyboard allows up to 6 keys to be pressed simultaneously. Great for fast typists and gamers alike.

Somewhat inconsistent marketing. Their 12KRO claim may refer to PS/2 mode, if there is anything like that on the Das.

Quote from: leos;142903
the earlier das 3 could register more then 6 keys over usb (perhaps they tune the controller firmware). The connect errors come after:becky:

Maybe they managed to do this using some dirty tricks--definitely non-standard and troublesome.
I'll say that the Das is not a proper USB HID device, even though a beautiful one.

Offline itlnstln

  • Posts: 13093
Das Keyboard III vs FILCO
« Reply #44 on: Wed, 16 December 2009, 10:10:48 »
12 KRO via USB was for the Das III.  The Das S "follows the rules" and does 6 KRO over USB and NKRO over PS2 like the Filco.  Unfortunately, Costar jacked that up, too.  I guess it was too hard to grab some Filco controllers, and slap those in.  It must be the volume controls.


Offline leos

  • Posts: 178
Das Keyboard III vs FILCO
« Reply #45 on: Wed, 16 December 2009, 10:14:23 »
Das Keyboard allows up to 6 keys to be pressed simultaneously. Great for fast typists and gamers alike.

The site "lern more" and "Slide show" refers to new das s
HHKB 2 Pro Black in use :typing:

Offline leos

  • Posts: 178
Das Keyboard III vs FILCO
« Reply #46 on: Wed, 16 December 2009, 10:18:46 »
Quote from: itlnstln;142923
12 KRO via USB was for the Das III.  The Das S "follows the rules" and does 6 KRO over USB and NKRO over PS2 like the Filco.  Unfortunately, Costar jacked that up, too.  I guess it was too hard to grab some Filco controllers, and slap those in.  It must be the volume controls.


Exact my Words. Das 3 was/(is for those who write unter 100wpm or not in burst) a good keyboard but Costar jacked/tuned the controller up.
HHKB 2 Pro Black in use :typing:

Offline Chao

  • Posts: 83
Das Keyboard III vs FILCO
« Reply #47 on: Wed, 16 December 2009, 11:18:08 »
Quote from: ripster;142928
Some keyboards will report up to 16keys OK but then you hit QWA and KABOOM!


That gets at a big question in terminology that I have been pondering...

For the record, I have read the "Do I need NKRO" guide on the Wiki. But from various threads and the wiki, summarized well in your post, tell there's a difference between N-key rollover and a sort of "matrix"-based blocking. The latter seems more important/practical to take note of. I'm not bothered if I can't mash my fingers and get QWASDTYIO at the same time, but it would bother me if a keyboard claimed to be X-keys but excluded certain combinations.

Is there a term to differentiate between the proper acceptance of all X-key combinations (whatever x may be) and not? Is there a term for it or do people who care that much just go for NKRO to begin with?
» Filco Majestouch FKBN87M/EB
» Cherry G80-3600LYCEU

Offline AndrewZorn

  • Posts: 1575
Das Keyboard III vs FILCO
« Reply #48 on: Wed, 16 December 2009, 11:24:59 »
Quote from: Chao;142958
Is there a term to differentiate between the proper acceptance of all X-key combinations (whatever x may be) and not? Is there a term for it or do people who care that much just go for NKRO to begin with?
N-Key Rollover vs Logitech "Up to 6" N-Key Rollover: Gamer Edition
NOPPOO CHOC MINI FILCO TENKEYLESS KBC POKER CHERRY MX11900
In order of preference, I\'m afraid.

Offline ch_123

  • * Exalted Elder
  • Posts: 9246
  • Hello Baton Rouge
Das Keyboard III vs FILCO
« Reply #49 on: Wed, 16 December 2009, 11:28:26 »
Quote from: leos;142927
Exact my Words. Das 3 was/(is for those who write unter 100wpm or not in burst) a good keyboard but Costar jacked/tuned the controller up.

Yes, but there's a keyboard (i.e. Filco) that's pretty much the same, except it works, and is the same price. So that kind of makes the Das an inherently bad choice. I mean, it's not like the Scorpius where there's a case to be made for risking dodgy soldering to get a blue Cherry keyboard for $60.

Quote
the earlier das 3 could register more then 6 keys over usb

It was advertised so, but I'm not sure it actually could... As AndrewZorn said, why are we still talking about the Das when there's a much better keyboard there for the same money?
« Last Edit: Wed, 16 December 2009, 11:30:53 by ch_123 »