Keyboards for a light touch

[Crossfire]

Plate mounted 45g Novatouch was horrible out of the box...I mean, knowing topre I've thought that it should be a winner with them mx stems and stuff...but the typing feeling and sound was just off...after taking them in a 4 hour lubing marathon the board finally was what it should be...on the other hand the RF was just so more refined, complete package out of the box.

[iLLucionist]

Plate mounted 45g Novatouch was horrible out of the box...I mean, knowing topre I've thought that it should be a winner with them mx stems and stuff...but the typing feeling and sound was just off...after taking them in a 4 hour lubing marathon the board finally was what it should be...on the other hand the RF was just so more refined, complete package out of the box.

What was most horrible about the experience? Was it wobbly? Or uneven feel across keys / switches?

[Crossfire]

What was most horrible about the experience? Was it wobbly? Or uneven feel across keys / switches?

No, the reaction of switches when pressed and the sound they were making when typing...not to mention the squeky stabs...just god awful. Usually I just want a little satisfaction sound and feel-wise and there was none...literally. I took it home with me from work, put it apart, cleaned, lubed the rails and stabs...and there she was, a completely different board.

With stock caps I've even achieved that signature topre "thock" which was kind of missing previously. 
Gmk's and other doubleshots just didn't sound that good, which was a bit of a surprise tbh...but it's ok, I've checked that off of my wishlist and moved forward

[iLLucionist]

What was most horrible about the experience? Was it wobbly? Or uneven feel across keys / switches?

No, the reaction of switches when pressed and the sound they were making when typing...not to mention the squeky stabs...just god awful. Usually I just want a little satisfaction sound and feel-wise and there was none...literally. I took it home with me from work, put it apart, cleaned, lubed the rails and stabs...and there she was, a completely different board.

With stock caps I've even achieved that signature topre "thock" which was kind of missing previously. 
Gmk's and other doubleshots just didn't sound that good, which was a bit of a surprise tbh...but it's ok, I've checked that off of my wishlist and moved forward

Thanks for the details. Sounds like not so fine board then. Squeaky.. hmm... probably not lubed enough out of factory.

[Crossfire]

Yeah, my guess exactly...and to tell you the truth, every single hhkb I had was a squeky stab mess...but not that RF55g from my friend.
But it's ok, every board I buy gets special cleaning and tuning treatment first...that's obligatory for me, I want to get the best out of the single board

[iLLucionist]

Yeah, my guess exactly...and to tell you the truth, every single hhkb I had was a squeky stab mess...but not that RF55g from my friend.
But it's ok, every board I buy gets special cleaning and tuning treatment first...that's obligatory for me, I want to get the best out of the single board

Do you also lube your topres? Apart from stem, I mean like sliders? What lube do you use?

I think I'm gonna silence AND lube my HHKB.. Coz... I can man!

[Crossfire]

Yeah, my guess exactly...and to tell you the truth, every single hhkb I had was a squeky stab mess...but not that RF55g from my friend.
But it's ok, every board I buy gets special cleaning and tuning treatment first...that's obligatory for me, I want to get the best out of the single board

Do you also lube your topres? Apart from stem, I mean like sliders? What lube do you use?

I think I'm gonna silence AND lube my HHKB.. Coz... I can man!

Absolutely! I paint the switch sliders with a brush - I use krytox gpl205, but just a thin layer. I don't like to overlube the switches, then it's just wrong. It's obligatory to try the switches, how they travel in the housings...at least for me.

The stock hhkb is a loud board...that's a fact.

Yeah, hush that japanese beauty
Do it!

[iLLucionist]

Yeah, my guess exactly...and to tell you the truth, every single hhkb I had was a squeky stab mess...but not that RF55g from my friend.
But it's ok, every board I buy gets special cleaning and tuning treatment first...that's obligatory for me, I want to get the best out of the single board

Do you also lube your topres? Apart from stem, I mean like sliders? What lube do you use?

I think I'm gonna silence AND lube my HHKB.. Coz... I can man!

Absolutely! I paint the switch sliders with a brush - I use krytox gpl205, but just a thin layer. I don't like to overlube the switches, then it's just wrong. It's obligatory to try the switches, how they travel in the housings...at least for me.

The stock hhkb is a loud board...that's a fact.

Yeah, hush that japanese beauty
Do it!

How do you do that to Topre sliders? HHKB is case mounted... you gotta take out the switches like cherry?

I should probably look up some videos..

[Crossfire]

Here are a few photos of my reconditioning process of the good ol' pro 1 - http://imgur.com/a/2JrqC
Basically you just push the sliders out of the housing and that's it. You clean the domes, leave those conical springs as they're and lube only the slider rails.

[iLLucionist]

Here are a few photos of my reconditioning process of the good ol' pro 1 - http://imgur.com/a/2JrqC
Basically you just push the sliders out of the housing and that's it. You clean the domes, leave those conical springs as they're and lube only the slider rails.

Cool, thanks!

EDIT: those pcs... looks like caps are dirty or is it overshoot from the cam?

[Crossfire]

Good old fasioned keyboard dirt

[iLLucionist]

Good old fasioned keyboard dirt

One question.. what lube did you use? And did you only lube the stems?

[Crossfire]

Krytox gpl205, some get good results with Superlube 51010 oil too.
I lube only the slider rails and not the cylindrical part of the sliders.

[Bucake]

anyone know a really really really thick lube that works well on stabilizers? i tried 205 but it just takes a few weeks before i have to re-do it, would prefer something that's a bunch thicker

[iLLucionist]

Krytox gpl205, some get good results with Superlube 51010 oil too.
I lube only the slider rails and not the cylindrical part of the sliders.

Thanks!

[iLLucionist]

anyone know a really really really thick lube that works well on stabilizers? i tried 205 but it just takes a few weeks before i have to re-do it, would prefer something that's a bunch thicker

I'm trying to learn about lubing... what is the advantage of really thick lube?

[Crossfire]

I use 205 on all my stabs too and it still holds up well...cures the stab squeking and makes the stabs work more smooth. Just don't overdo it

[Macsmasher]

As an elderly coder myself (59), I'll share my experience. I had been using MX Browns for 3 - 4 years. Just like you, at the end of the day my knuckles ached. I bought a RF 87U variable and haven't had any issues with sore knuckles. I mean the pain was gone completely. If you're a touch typist, you won't notice the variable key weighting. It just feels 'balanced'. I also have a RF 87U 55g. It's a great board, but a bit too stiff for extended typing for me. However, if you're used to Unicomp, it may be fine for you. They're both great boards. But if I could only choose one, it would be the variable. I have since given all my Cherry boards to needy friends.

I've had the same experience. So first I but o-rings on my caps for my browns filco tkl board. Was better, but not completely. So I bought a HHKB. Though I love it, it felt a bit too mushy. Then I read up on people using clears and saying springs so heavy it is actually lighter because you can try not bottoming out. So did that. Then bought RF 87U 55g and that's best of all so far.

I should also mentioned that I type Colemak. With the minimal finger travel, the variable is the ticket for me. If I were still qwerty, I might prefer the 55g.

[iLLucionist]

As an elderly coder myself (59), I'll share my experience. I had been using MX Browns for 3 - 4 years. Just like you, at the end of the day my knuckles ached. I bought a RF 87U variable and haven't had any issues with sore knuckles. I mean the pain was gone completely. If you're a touch typist, you won't notice the variable key weighting. It just feels 'balanced'. I also have a RF 87U 55g. It's a great board, but a bit too stiff for extended typing for me. However, if you're used to Unicomp, it may be fine for you. They're both great boards. But if I could only choose one, it would be the variable. I have since given all my Cherry boards to needy friends.

I've had the same experience. So first I but o-rings on my caps for my browns filco tkl board. Was better, but not completely. So I bought a HHKB. Though I love it, it felt a bit too mushy. Then I read up on people using clears and saying springs so heavy it is actually lighter because you can try not bottoming out. So did that. Then bought RF 87U 55g and that's best of all so far.

I should also mentioned that I type Colemak. With the minimal finger travel, the variable is the ticket for me. If I were still qwerty, I might prefer the 55g.

How long have you been on Colemak now? Do you think it is really better than qwerty?

[Macsmasher]

I've been Colemak for a little over three years. Better is subjective. If I were transcribing pages of documents, definitely. As a coder, I'm not constantly typing so it's hard to justify the switch from qwerty. It is more comfortable typing. I'm glad I switched. 

[vivalarevolución]

Oh yea, alternative layouts that reduce finger travel can be a big help to reduce finger pain.  Qwerty requires a lot of jumping around.  This topic has been analyzed to death in the ergonomics subforum.

[iLLucionist]

Oh yea, alternative layouts that reduce finger travel can be a big help to reduce finger pain.  Qwerty requires a lot of jumping around.  This topic has been analyzed to death in the ergonomics subforum.

Has a definitive solution emerged yet? I suppose everybody is going to experience it differently..

[Macsmasher]

Oh yea, alternative layouts that reduce finger travel can be a big help to reduce finger pain.  Qwerty requires a lot of jumping around.  This topic has been analyzed to death in the ergonomics subforum.

Has a definitive solution emerged yet? I suppose everybody is going to experience it differently..

Don't think there is a definitive solution. I chose Colemak because it was the easiest transition from qwerty and maintained Win shortcuts for copy / cut / paste in the same place.

[iLLucionist]

Oh yea, alternative layouts that reduce finger travel can be a big help to reduce finger pain.  Qwerty requires a lot of jumping around.  This topic has been analyzed to death in the ergonomics subforum.

Has a definitive solution emerged yet? I suppose everybody is going to experience it differently..

Don't think there is a definitive solution. I chose Colemak because it was the easiest transition from qwerty and maintained Win shortcuts for copy / cut / paste in the same place.

I've tried dvorak, but really didn't like it for some reason. And I've REALLY tried for like a month or so.

[Macsmasher]

Oh yea, alternative layouts that reduce finger travel can be a big help to reduce finger pain.  Qwerty requires a lot of jumping around.  This topic has been analyzed to death in the ergonomics subforum.

Has a definitive solution emerged yet? I suppose everybody is going to experience it differently..

Don't think there is a definitive solution. I chose Colemak because it was the easiest transition from qwerty and maintained Win shortcuts for copy / cut / paste in the same place.

I've tried dvorak, but really didn't like it for some reason. And I've REALLY tried for like a month or so.

Here's an interesting site to help analyze the different keyboard layouts...


http://patorjk.com/keyboard-layout-analyzer/#/main


You can just type or paste samples of text strings that you typically type and it will compare the different layouts to see which is the most efficient based on what you type. If you're a coder, paste some code in the text box. It's interesting to see how bad qwerty is compared to any of the alternate layouts.

[FlukE]

I would recommend gatreon clears which come in at a very light 35g which is quite a solid amount less than the browns you said were hurting you're knuckles

[iLLucionist]

Oh yea, alternative layouts that reduce finger travel can be a big help to reduce finger pain.  Qwerty requires a lot of jumping around.  This topic has been analyzed to death in the ergonomics subforum.

Has a definitive solution emerged yet? I suppose everybody is going to experience it differently..

Don't think there is a definitive solution. I chose Colemak because it was the easiest transition from qwerty and maintained Win shortcuts for copy / cut / paste in the same place.

I've tried dvorak, but really didn't like it for some reason. And I've REALLY tried for like a month or so.

Here's an interesting site to help analyze the different keyboard layouts...


http://patorjk.com/keyboard-layout-analyzer/#/main


You can just type or paste samples of text strings that you typically type and it will compare the different layouts to see which is the most efficient based on what you type. If you're a coder, paste some code in the text box. It's interesting to see how bad qwerty is compared to any of the alternate layouts.

Thanks, very cool!

[iLLucionist]

I would recommend gatreon clears which come in at a very light 35g which is quite a solid amount less than the browns you said were hurting you're knuckles

That's even ligher than MX Reds O_o Wow.

[dante]

If you go with 35g Gaterons I have three suggestions if you want to preserve your hands:

1. Consider some squishy O-Rings.
2. A keyboard with PCB mounted switches (ie: no plate.)
3. ABS keycaps.  Though this won't matter as much as the first two.

These three together should give an experience that is easier on your hands.

[jcoffin1981]

The gateron browns are very light and smooth.  Lighter than Cherry browns.

[iLLucionist]

If you go with 35g Gaterons I have three suggestions if you want to preserve your hands:

1. Consider some squishy O-Rings.
2. A keyboard with PCB mounted switches (ie: no plate.)
3. ABS keycaps.  Though this won't matter as much as the first two.

These three together should give an experience that is easier on your hands.

How's ABS easier on the hands? Coz it's a bit softer than PBT?

[dante]

If you go with 35g Gaterons I have three suggestions if you want to preserve your hands:

1. Consider some squishy O-Rings.
2. A keyboard with PCB mounted switches (ie: no plate.)
3. ABS keycaps.  Though this won't matter as much as the first two.

These three together should give an experience that is easier on your hands.

How's ABS easier on the hands? Coz it's a bit softer than PBT?

Well with my hands it is.  I've heard others also say the same.  But to be fair, all PBT is different.

[iLLucionist]

If you go with 35g Gaterons I have three suggestions if you want to preserve your hands:

1. Consider some squishy O-Rings.
2. A keyboard with PCB mounted switches (ie: no plate.)
3. ABS keycaps.  Though this won't matter as much as the first two.

These three together should give an experience that is easier on your hands.

How's ABS easier on the hands? Coz it's a bit softer than PBT?

Well with my hands it is.  I've heard others also say the same.  But to be fair, all PBT is different.

I can imagine that. I like the feel of ABS a bit better than PBT actually, but I'm just not made for teh shine.

[rowdy]

If you go with 35g Gaterons I have three suggestions if you want to preserve your hands:

1. Consider some squishy O-Rings.
2. A keyboard with PCB mounted switches (ie: no plate.)
3. ABS keycaps.  Though this won't matter as much as the first two.

These three together should give an experience that is easier on your hands.

How's ABS easier on the hands? Coz it's a bit softer than PBT?

If you want "softer" keycaps, try POM.

[Bucake]

ABS? wasn't that made in Hell?

nah, i have nothing against ABS. but i do think it's just absolutely horrible for the touch, especially since it wears so quickly.
99% of computer mice are made with ABS, but most of them are coated. i think the same has been done with a handful of keyboards? (rubberized coating or something)

[jacobolus]

ABS is some great plastic. Non-toxic, reasonably sturdy and impact resistant, lightweight, colorful and can be made glossy or can be textured, hits tight tolerances, cheap, etc.

If you look around your home, you’ll find ABS used all over the place. And who doesn’t like Legos?

For keyboard buttons, I think PBT often makes a nicer sound. But ABS is also fine. The thickness of the plastic also has a big effect on sound.

[vivalarevolución]

Oh yea, alternative layouts that reduce finger travel can be a big help to reduce finger pain.  Qwerty requires a lot of jumping around.  This topic has been analyzed to death in the ergonomics subforum.

Has a definitive solution emerged yet? I suppose everybody is going to experience it differently..

Don't think there is a definitive solution. I chose Colemak because it was the easiest transition from qwerty and maintained Win shortcuts for copy / cut / paste in the same place.

I was using a modified Maltron layout for awhile.  Although not sure if it helped that much.  My greatest hand pain is related to mouse usage.  Although all this jumping around QWERTY probably does not help.