which keyboard has orange Alps switch ?

[overdriver]

I am looking for a Keyboard with orange Alps switch.. or any alternative Alps switch with similar clicky & tactile feedback.
I love my old and still working 100% Apple IIc keyboard with orange Alps switch. It gives me one of the best balanced clicky feed back.

according to Alps Wiki here there is not much hope on PC:

Orange: tactile (Apple Keyboard M0116/M0115/GS II keyboard)

The problem is I don't think I have much experience on other Alps switch.. so please, give me some info/advice for getting a keyboard with 'orange alps like' switch for PC.

..I could try to buy above apple keyboard with ADB-to USB converter but it doesn't have Function keys, etc.

[ch_123]

Didn't the original AEK have orange switches?

[overdriver]

Didn't the original AEK have orange switches?

that's fast! yeah I just googled it and it seems it has orange switches according to Geekhack wiki.

Thanks, it's super fast :smile:
I guess its the time to shop for $50ish Griffin imate and AEK?

[overdriver]

hmm.. very strange. I am little bit confused by this video:

video for M0116

I know that it is not M0115 but both models are supposed to have same orange switch. my Apple IIc Alps has both clicky and tactile but this orange switch in this video doesn't have any clicky sound at all..!

according to Wiki it doesn't. hmm does this means Apple IIc keyboard had some special order?
ok.. my goal is to have Alps switch with clicky and tactile so I should go for different keyboard. It is so complicated whenever I see some Alps switch..

[ch_123]

I have a funny habit of logging onto Geekhack just after people ask questions like these =P

Apple never used clicky switches in their keyboards. Bare in mind that we have a very specific definition of clicky around here - i.e. a switch that deliberately makes a noise upon actuation. Black (and related such as Orange) Alps are often thought to be clicky because of the racket they make when you bottom out on them. In fact, it's possibly to actuate them without making any noise (try pressing the switch very slowly and you'll see)

Out of curiosity, have you ever tried a Dell AT101W? As far as I know, the switches it uses are similar enough to the Orange Alps. You can often find NIB ones on eBay for about $5-10

[overdriver]

yes, I know the difference between click and bottoming-out sound.
I am sure that Apple never used clicky switch AFTER Apple IIgs. but on my Apple IIc it has alps switch that is clicky and tactile.
Its switch deliberately makes a noise upon actuation even without keycap.

only thing I am not sure is the slider color: to me it looks like orange... but who know it could be dark yellow.

anyway.. any recommendation for a alps keyboard with click and tactile ?

[overdriver]

Out of curiosity, have you ever tried a Dell AT101W? As far as I know, the switches it uses are similar enough to the Orange Alps. You can often find NIB ones on eBay for about $5-10

yes, as you can see my sig I already own it.. lol  thanks to geekhack. I never knew this exist before.
how's it ? I don't like too much. I like it because it was very cheap $15 NIB with shipping.. but It is not that smooth and requires higher pressure to acuate, and it does not have clicky sound.. only bottoming out.

No, i don't think it is similar to orange or any alps switch with tactile and click.

[ch_123]

Interesting. The Alps guide in the Wiki is a bit weird because it doesn't take different pressure requirements into account. Your best bet would be to try and find a White Alps switch. Blues Alps are good too, but I've been reliably informed that they cost a lot for a good board.

If you go to the eBay section, there's a thread on Northgates (other than the one about the guy who thought his was worth $400...)

[overdriver]

thanks for advice.
so, I should look for Northgate or omnikey.. got it
any other keyboard has white Alps switch?

[ch_123]

The FK-2001 has either, depending on the variant, complicated Whites, complicated Blues or fake Whites. As far as I know, if you avoid models with Windows keys, you're safe, although there might be some Windows-keys less versions that have the fakes.

The Filco Zero has Fukka switches, which are simplified Alps. They're a compromise between the complicated and the fakes. However, if you are familiar with the complicated switches, you may not like the simplified switches.

[overdriver]

lol this is why Alps are so complicated. 1. real complicated 2. simplified 3. simplified fake.  sigh.. I wish I can try before I buy.
Thanks for help

[ch_123]

So many variants, and yet you can count on one hand the amount that are worthwhile... Alps fans are few and far between around here these days. I have a Blue board on the way to me, which I intend to modify with dampeners. I think it's Alps last chance to impress me =P

[didjamatic]

I have an Apple Extended Keyboard M0115 with Orange alps sitting right here, I also have white alps boards.  PM me if you're interested.

[microsoft windows]

Interesting. The Alps guide in the Wiki is a bit weird because it doesn't take different pressure requirements into account. Your best bet would be to try and find a White Alps switch. Blues Alps are good too, but I've been reliably informed that they cost a lot for a good board.

If you go to the eBay section, there's a thread on Northgates (other than the one about the guy who thought his was worth $400...)

I'm sorry to tell you but the Northgates ended. I was out-bid.

[SCTony]

I am having difficulty uploading, but here is a small pic of Black/Orange comparison.

[microsoft windows]

They sure look different on the inside. How are they linear though? They look a lot like the old complicated ALPS.

[SCTony]

They are both the older 'complicated' style. The click leaf is what provides the tactile bump, as I understand it. The springs are very different- longer, less coils/inch, and an extra wrap at the ends in the orange switches.

[SCTony]

Yes, I don't know where the problem is but I haven't been able to upload anything but this pic. Maybe my computer/ ISP/ i dunno. Keeps timing out/ server reset.

[PRISONER 24601]

I believe my ADK has oranges. See here:



They're different looking and feeling than the pinks on my M0115. I think I like them a bit better.

[ch_123]

It's the fake vs real part that makes it confusing.

That's the most simple bit of them all. Some were made by Alps or properly licensed to be made by other companies. Some were cheap knockoffs made in China. The former are better than the latter.

Now, the simplified vs. real thing is where it gets messy.

[PRISONER 24601]

ALPS are like snowflakes.
Then again, they're also like onions.

[overdriver]

I just opened up my old Apple IIc again to check its slider color.
you know what..

it is a Yellow slider: and it has audible click & tactile.

yeah.. call me color blind.. but I think this is yellow. according to Wiki it is classified as a linear switch, but nope, it has click and tactile bump.

It is possible that this switches are not a same production line of the rest of Alps switch because I don't see any Alps logo on each key. then, how do I know it is made by Alps ? The PCB board itself is marked as 'Alps' and it is well documented that Apple ordered its keyboard from Alps for the later version of Apple IIc.
If anyone insist then I can take a picture or I can borrow from internet. So, it should be a real complicated Alps without logo.. hmm does this make any sense?! It might be special order from Apple.. who knows.

I am not sure how to measure of the pressure of this key switch but i am guessing it is close to 70g comparing to my IBM M BS.

[ricercar]

You can stack US nickel coins on one key and tell us how many it takes to press it. Ripster will tell you how many grams it is.

[overdriver]

You can stack US nickel coins on one key and tell us how many it takes to press it. Ripster will tell you how many grams it is.

just stacked 15 dimes to initiate the press. and my M took same weight to be pressed.
          *EDIT*  ^^^ Nickels.. ooops  

5g x 15 = 75g  yup.. it's between 14 and 15 dimes for sure. so it's most likely ~70g ish
                                                *EDIT*  ^^^ Nickels .. doh! sorry i must be really tired yesterday

[ak_nala]

A dime is lighter than a nickel.

[alpslover]

The PCB board itself is marked as 'Alps' and it is well documented that Apple ordered its keyboard from Alps for the later version of Apple IIc.
If anyone insist then I can take a picture or I can borrow from internet.

take a picture if you don't mind.  i also remember the iic's keyboard as being clicky and tactile, and a lot better than many other computer keyboards from that era.

[overdriver]

hmm is that yellow? damn.. I am really color blind?

here is my own crappy video over Youtube. my first ever video so please don't laugh lol

First Part

Second Part

Third part








yeah.. please, tell me what I have

[overdriver]

Well, at the risk of posting the same comment 300 times you really will never know with ALPS unless you open the switch (or another Apple IIc owner with that specific model number and rev of keyboard does).

My bet is you have an ALPS clone of undetermined type.

model # is A2S4100.

It maybe Alps clone but its keyboard PCB is marked with 'Alps' logo. Is there any keyboard that uses Alps clones with real Alps PCB ?

I would not open this switch since I know there is no spare switch if something goes wrong.. I never opened Alps before ;P

[alpslover]

Is there any keyboard that uses Alps clones with real Alps PCB ?

i've never seen one.

your switches are probably the same ones found on this apple keyboard:

http://sandy55.fc2web.com/keyboard/apple_m0116.html

[ch_123]

No, if it says Alps on the board, you can take it that it has genuine ones.

Oh, and the lack of Alps logo doesn't automatically mean that it's not real. Take genuine Blues for example.

[overdriver]

Thanks for the link of Sandy's site. It confirms that those orange switches doesn't have Alps logo either.

[overdriver]

That's because they are too ashamed to reveal their true nature.

So anybody willing to say if the Orange Ones feel different from the Black Complicated ALPS like on a Dell AT101W?

Anybody?

lol I love your sense of humor always  I saw hundreds of your funny comments and I laugh every single time when I saw yours

OT but I may just buy a blue cherry and call it a day. It's too complicated to figure out which alps is good for me. but  a Blue cherry is well known for the one of the best switch that is still on its production.. hmm so why not. I already tried the Brown one I love it

[microsoft windows]

If you want guaranteed complicated, a Northgate's your best bet.

[microsoft windows]

I never really used the old Apples (I'm sure you guys can already tell from my name), but I have heard people talk about clicky switches in them before. All I really do know about Apple is they made some of the lowest quality keyboard products starting in the late 1990's.

[overdriver]

But if this thread dies we will NEVER get to the bottom of these mysterious ALPS.

Are yours Yellow or Orange?

Anybody else seen Clicky ALPS on an Apple?

It's Yellow for sure. It's not orange at all. I've seen many other Apple keyboards but this maybe only clicky keyboard among Apple ones. All other Alps switch on Apple keyboards( M0116/M0115/M3501)were either black or orange,.. or pink alps which is tactile but not clicky.

[overdriver]

Now I know you are hesitant to open up the switch (not even ScrollLock???)  but let me make my case:


1.  MORAL - Think of Steve Jobs?  What would he do?  OK, I'll think of a better example.....
2.  SCIENTIFIC - Where would we be if nobody opened up a picture and posted it in the Wiki?  You'd be a discoverer like Sir Burton and the source of the Nile!
3.  LEGAL - Buried in the Geekhack registration agreement I think it sez:

4. TESTOSTERONE - I doubledogdareya!

lol.. ok ripster. Since I got so much help from you and geekhack community I owe you guys something. I will post the pic of its assembly as much as possible within 10 min .. but don't expect much from total novice like me.. ok?

[overdriver]

ok I can't take last one out.. so this is the best I can do.
now can you tell me how to assemble ?
I saw the Alps Wiki video how to aseemble but I don't have complete part to do it.. any pic ?

[ch_123]

I assume that the top part of the switch housing, it says Alps on one of the sides? I'm going to refer to that side as the bottom of the switch.

First off, insert the plastic slider. One of the sides should have a semicircular notch at the bottom, make sure that side faces downwards towards the bottom, not upwards. Insert the metal leaf into the space at the bottom of the switch. Insert the spring into the notch in the bottom of the slider. Now, you need to reinsert the whole thing slowly. It helps if you hold the board at a downwards angle as you do it. Make sure you insert it such that the Alps logo is the right way up.

I've probably explained that bad, so ask if you have any trouble with any of the steps in particular.

[overdriver]

omg.. click is gone for that particular switch
something went wrong.. arg

[ch_123]

omg.. click is gone for that particular switch
something went wrong.. arg

Pull it out and start again.

Webwit - Complicated White vs Complicated Blue, what's the difference if any?

[ch_123]

I thought the pic of Alps in your post above was made by yourself. Might send a PM to the Alps Master himself.

[overdriver]

Pull it out and start again.

arg.. It's no use. I tried more than 5 times already. It looks like the leaf has been bent somehow.. so it does not click anymore :mmph:

I just put it back. It works without click sound.. damn it

..anyone has a spare leaf for complicated Alps switch(from white if possible) ?

[SCTony]

I much prefer the feel of the M0116 (used) orange switches to the NIB Dell AT101W. The Dell black switches have that 'friction' feeling and seem to require more force to initiate the key movement. There is a difference in the springs and a minor difference in the housing-





Oh- I figured out why I was having difficulty uploading. My cable modem was failing (slowly) and has been replaced.

[ch_123]

arg.. It's no use. I tried more than 5 times already. It looks like the leaf has been bent somehow.. so it does not click anymore :mmph:

I just put it back. It works without click sound.. damn it

..anyone has a spare leaf for complicated Alps switch(from white if possible) ?

You can fix the leaf by bending it back into shape. There was a thread on this around here somewhere made by Microsoft Windows... Where is he when you actually need him... >.<

[overdriver]

Thank you so much, ripster. you are my angel

[msiegel]

Sounds Clicky to me!

IIc switch looks familiar...

Replacement Keyboard Switches for Apple IIe & IIc Computers

[ricercar]

Hey, I recognize that switch.

$0.55 each at halted.com with white plunger, no Cherry logo. Not tactile, firmer than Cherry-logo browns, more like the Cherry-logo blacks on my popo keyboard, far firmer than the no-logo blacks from my Kishy keyboard.

[SCTony]

As for reassembling the switches, what I do is insert the slider into the top housing, insert the click-leaf, and then bottom out the slider to hold the click leaf in place. I put the spring in the [ bottom ] housing using the tiniest bit of grease on the spring to hold it in place (Welly's trick). Then align the housings and reassemble. The notch on the bottom of the slider faces the electrical contacts- there is a slight bevel on the bottom edge of the notched side.

[sandy55]

Show Image

**snipped other pics**

Real genuine Alps with gray switching assy it is.

Not sure about the color of a stem with those pics if it is orange or yellow or mixture of yellow and orange
But anyway it's new to me.  Didn't know there is such a color of a stem for clicky Alps.
I ( and Ripster ) need another picture of a click leaf from different angel if it has a protrusion like shown in Ripster's picture.

One thing I can say is that click ( tactile ) leaf without a protrusion can make a clicking sound if it doesn't have stabs at both side of a leaf and L shaped leg at the bottom.
If you examine US patent paper #4642433 of alps audible switch you may notice there is no protrusion on a click leaf of early Alps clicking switch.
#4642433 itself is for the protrusion which generates distinct clicking sound.
And actually, this can be confirmed if you bend side stabs of a leaf and lower L shaped portion more sharply so that a leaf can move inside
a slit of orange/pink and other so called tactile Alps switches.    
Also some of tactile switches occasionally make very faint ( yes, very faint ) clicking sound.  Some people like that faint click even though a board makes random notes.  

There is a difference in the springs and a minor difference in the housing-

I call them "slits". these can be found on genuine alps made before '93.
Link
A sign for a good Alps,  down side of slits is that you may break a housing when you pull off a key cap if a cap is tightly fitted to a stem.

Hey, my Majestouch tenless Blue went mad now.  Repeating *

[overdriver]

glad to see Sandy here in this thread.
I didn't take detail pic of its leaf but
a click ( tactile ) leaf has a protrusion and it is exactly same shape as ripster showed me. that's why I didn't take too much picture of it and asked for a leaf from white alps.
I would know for sure once I get it from ripster but my guess is that it will be 100% same dimension & shape.

btw, you don't want me to disassemble another one to be make sure.. please, don't.. one screw up is enough for me now