Topre vs Zealio - Snappiness

[Zentennen]

So I got a switch tester from NPKC with various cherry, gateron and kailh switches. Later I got Zealios and I love them. However, they are not perfect. I realize that what I want in a switch is to have it be tactile, but not snappy. The two switches that seem most like this seem to be zealio and topre.

Most of the time when you ask "zealio vs topre" people answer that they aren't comparable, so I will change the question. Which one of them is snappier? I realize there are different zealio and topre switches, what so I'd like to know which of all of their variations is the least snappy?

What I mean by "snappy" is the feeling you get on conventional mx blues, mx greens, gateron blues, etc. where you press slowly on a key, when it gets to the actuation point, you stop until you push with enough force to get over the tactile point, at which point the switch "snaps" and gives away, and drops all resistance immediately. I don't like the immediate drop. I'd like both the increase in resistance before and after actuation to happen progressively over the keystroke.

So basically I'm asking for a very round and super smooth tactile bump.

I've tried zealios, and the best way to answer my question would be to try topre as well, but I can't find a way to no matter where I go, so I have googled and tested on my own rubber domes. Personally I think the rubber domes feel a bit less snappy than even zealios, which is a good thing. What I don't like about standard rubber domes is of course the mushiness and that they aren't smooth at all. However, I've heard that topre is not mushy at all and super smooth, so that sohuldn't be a problem.

I've heard on the forums that topre has a bump in the beginning of the stroke, after which it loses resistance. The issue here is that this sounds a bit snappy, where you have to push a lot in the beginning to get over the initial bump. Can anyone with experience comment on this?

[exitfire401]

I've always made this comparison between ergoclears and 55g topre. Feels super similar in my experience, and any of my friends who enjoy my ergoclear boards also enjoy my 55g Topre boards.

But to answer your question, clears/zealios are snappier. This is because there's a physical resistance to the switch. With topre, it is still a very sudden drop in force once you get over the initial depression, but the dome collapsing still cushions the bottom out more than will happen on an MX style switch.

[Malenky]

78g Zealios probably. Perhaps lubed too.

[Zentennen]

I've always made this comparison between ergoclears and 55g topre. Feels super similar in my experience, and any of my friends who enjoy my ergoclear boards also enjoy my 55g Topre boards.

But to answer your question, clears/zealios are snappier. This is because there's a physical resistance to the switch. With topre, it is still a very sudden drop in force once you get over the initial depression, but the dome collapsing still cushions the bottom out more than will happen on an MX style switch.

First question: Are they noticably less snappy?

If so (or even possible if it isn't the case), then I know what to get. Kinda, there's still different topre weights to choose from.

I'll probably lube my topre board, I've heard it makes it slightly smoother, slightly less snappy but slightly less distinct.

I've heard that 55g is more snappy than 45g, but more distinct as well. I like distinct, but dislike snappy. I don't like MX Browns, while they are technically tactile, they tactile bump is so unnoticable that I feel like they are practically linear, and I've seen a lot of topre 45g fans say they like mx browns. Personally I prefer MX Blues, despite them being snappier, simply because MX Browns don't feel tactile at all. This makes me worried that if I use a lubed 45g it won't be tactile enough for me.

That would be my second question; would you recommend 45g or 55g?

[bocahgundul]

get a 45g hhkb

[Zentennen]

get a 45g hhkb

If I'm getting 45g it'll be either fully programmable or nordic layout, I don't think HHKB is any of those.

[bocahgundul]

get a 45g hhkb

If I'm getting 45g it'll be either fully programmable or nordic layout, I don't think HHKB is any of those.

Fully programmable eh? so no topre? cause realforce is not programmable

[exitfire401]

get a 45g hhkb

If I'm getting 45g it'll be either fully programmable or nordic layout, I don't think HHKB is any of those.

Fully programmable eh? so no topre? cause realforce is not programmable

This

[Zentennen]

get a 45g hhkb

If I'm getting 45g it'll be either fully programmable or nordic layout, I don't think HHKB is any of those.

Fully programmable eh? so no topre? cause realforce is not programmable

Fully programmable or nordic layout 

Realforce does make nordic keyboards. 88u and I think 104u come in nordic, and so does novatouch. I might go 87u if I like it more but as it stands I'm leaning towards 45g.

[bocahgundul]

get a 45g hhkb

If I'm getting 45g it'll be either fully programmable or nordic layout, I don't think HHKB is any of those.

Fully programmable eh? so no topre? cause realforce is not programmable

Fully programmable or nordic layout 

Realforce does make nordic keyboards. 88u and I think 104u come in nordic, and so does novatouch. I might go 87u if I like it more but as it stands I'm leaning towards 45g.

oh I though you said that you want both of them in the same board.

Yeah realforce do come in nordic layout

[exitfire401]

I've always made this comparison between ergoclears and 55g topre. Feels super similar in my experience, and any of my friends who enjoy my ergoclear boards also enjoy my 55g Topre boards.

But to answer your question, clears/zealios are snappier. This is because there's a physical resistance to the switch. With topre, it is still a very sudden drop in force once you get over the initial depression, but the dome collapsing still cushions the bottom out more than will happen on an MX style switch.

First question: Are they noticably less snappy?

If so (or even possible if it isn't the case), then I know what to get. Kinda, there's still different topre weights to choose from.

I'll probably lube my topre board, I've heard it makes it slightly smoother, slightly less snappy but slightly less distinct.

I've heard that 55g is more snappy than 45g, but more distinct as well. I like distinct, but dislike snappy. I don't like MX Browns, while they are technically tactile, they tactile bump is so unnoticable that I feel like they are practically linear, and I've seen a lot of topre 45g fans say they like mx browns. Personally I prefer MX Blues, despite them being snappier, simply because MX Browns don't feel tactile at all. This makes me worried that if I use a lubed 45g it won't be tactile enough for me.

That would be my second question; would you recommend 45g or 55g?

So, since you clarified the last message, onto this question. 45g Topre is noticeably less snappy than ergoclears while 55g is on par imho. I'm in the process of saving up to 55g my anniversary edition Realforce because I can't stand the 45g that much. Once that's done, the only switches I will own are blue alps, 55g Topre, and Zealios/ergoclears.

[snarfarlarkus]

If you want snappy, get a Model F XT. One of the most snappiest keyswitches out there are capacitive buckling springs. There is constant resistance throughout the keystroke. The resistance stops when the spring buckles but its so close to the bottom out point that you wont feel that drop in resistance. When releasing the keystroke, the resistance is there again due to the spring returning to its idle position. My favourite keyswitch is definitely the capacitive BS.

[klennkellon]

If you want snappy, get a Model F XT. One of the most snappiest keyswitches out there are capacitive buckling springs. There is constant resistance throughout the keystroke. The resistance stops when the spring buckles but its so close to the bottom out point that you wont feel that drop in resistance. When releasing the keystroke, the resistance is there again due to the spring returning to its idle position. My favourite keyswitch is definitely the capacitive BS.

yeah, no switch is snappier feeling than buckling springs.

The Model M is also good, just not as good as the F.

[Zeimus]

OP, you say you like tactile feel but pretty much every tactile switch has a snap (slight loss of force requirement at actuation).  Are you sure you don't want a linear switch?  If you look at a graph comparing the switch force curves, linear is linear ofc, but tactile switches have curves with dips, where as clicky switch just has a bump in force.  So maybe you like the curve of blue switch?  Try a custom blue switch 

Or perhaps try a light topre or topre clone, or some zealios, or a lubed ergoclear.  You can even try various springs.  To me 55g topre are kind of snappy (I liked them for typing), but topre switch is smooth and sounds like what you want as far as the tactile bump feel goes, but other than that they are different feeling than cherry mx switches. You need to feel it yourself though.  Have you tried clears and ergoclears? Various zealios?  I guess you would call clears snappy. Also, note topre actuation is 2.3mm vs cherry 2mm.  Apparently novatouch is 1mm though. 

I am hoping a 67g zealio will do the trick for me, to the point where I can still float switches.      

[Zentennen]

I've always made this comparison between ergoclears and 55g topre. Feels super similar in my experience, and any of my friends who enjoy my ergoclear boards also enjoy my 55g Topre boards.

But to answer your question, clears/zealios are snappier. This is because there's a physical resistance to the switch. With topre, it is still a very sudden drop in force once you get over the initial depression, but the dome collapsing still cushions the bottom out more than will happen on an MX style switch.

First question: Are they noticably less snappy?

If so (or even possible if it isn't the case), then I know what to get. Kinda, there's still different topre weights to choose from.

I'll probably lube my topre board, I've heard it makes it slightly smoother, slightly less snappy but slightly less distinct.

I've heard that 55g is more snappy than 45g, but more distinct as well. I like distinct, but dislike snappy. I don't like MX Browns, while they are technically tactile, they tactile bump is so unnoticable that I feel like they are practically linear, and I've seen a lot of topre 45g fans say they like mx browns. Personally I prefer MX Blues, despite them being snappier, simply because MX Browns don't feel tactile at all. This makes me worried that if I use a lubed 45g it won't be tactile enough for me.

That would be my second question; would you recommend 45g or 55g?

So, since you clarified the last message, onto this question. 45g Topre is noticeably less snappy than ergoclears while 55g is on par imho. I'm in the process of saving up to 55g my anniversary edition Realforce because I can't stand the 45g that much. Once that's done, the only switches I will own are blue alps, 55g Topre, and Zealios/ergoclears.

Would you say 45g Topre have an unnoticable tactile bump, like MX Browns? Or are they fine?

[Zentennen]

If you want snappy, get a Model F XT. One of the most snappiest keyswitches out there are capacitive buckling springs. There is constant resistance throughout the keystroke. The resistance stops when the spring buckles but its so close to the bottom out point that you wont feel that drop in resistance. When releasing the keystroke, the resistance is there again due to the spring returning to its idle position. My favourite keyswitch is definitely the capacitive BS.

I specifically don't want snappy

[quasistellar]

There is resistance at the top of topre, then the dome collapses and it drops down until you bottom out. It's definitely a smooth drop and much better than any standard rubber dome. Clears and zealios drop at the bump slightly, then increase again until you bottom out.

Really the only way to know is to try a Topre switch. I think coolermaster put a switch tester on mass drop this year that had a Topre switch on it. Maybe see if you can find one in classifieds, eBay, Reddit?

[Vittra]

I've always made this comparison between ergoclears and 55g topre. Feels super similar in my experience, and any of my friends who enjoy my ergoclear boards also enjoy my 55g Topre boards.

But to answer your question, clears/zealios are snappier. This is because there's a physical resistance to the switch. With topre, it is still a very sudden drop in force once you get over the initial depression, but the dome collapsing still cushions the bottom out more than will happen on an MX style switch.

First question: Are they noticably less snappy?

If so (or even possible if it isn't the case), then I know what to get. Kinda, there's still different topre weights to choose from.

I'll probably lube my topre board, I've heard it makes it slightly smoother, slightly less snappy but slightly less distinct.

I've heard that 55g is more snappy than 45g, but more distinct as well. I like distinct, but dislike snappy. I don't like MX Browns, while they are technically tactile, they tactile bump is so unnoticable that I feel like they are practically linear, and I've seen a lot of topre 45g fans say they like mx browns. Personally I prefer MX Blues, despite them being snappier, simply because MX Browns don't feel tactile at all. This makes me worried that if I use a lubed 45g it won't be tactile enough for me.

That would be my second question; would you recommend 45g or 55g?

So, since you clarified the last message, onto this question. 45g Topre is noticeably less snappy than ergoclears while 55g is on par imho. I'm in the process of saving up to 55g my anniversary edition Realforce because I can't stand the 45g that much. Once that's done, the only switches I will own are blue alps, 55g Topre, and Zealios/ergoclears.

Would you say 45g Topre have an unnoticable tactile bump, like MX Browns? Or are they fine?

It's noticeable. Based on your various posts between OP and elaborating, it sounds like 45G would suit you. Many prefer 55G because of it's snappiness, so it's something you certainly want to avoid.

[dgneo]

get a 45g hhkb

If I'm getting 45g it'll be either fully programmable or nordic layout, I don't think HHKB is any of those.

HHKB + Hasu's Controller = Fully Programmable HHKB

[Zentennen]

I've always made this comparison between ergoclears and 55g topre. Feels super similar in my experience, and any of my friends who enjoy my ergoclear boards also enjoy my 55g Topre boards.

But to answer your question, clears/zealios are snappier. This is because there's a physical resistance to the switch. With topre, it is still a very sudden drop in force once you get over the initial depression, but the dome collapsing still cushions the bottom out more than will happen on an MX style switch.

First question: Are they noticably less snappy?

If so (or even possible if it isn't the case), then I know what to get. Kinda, there's still different topre weights to choose from.

I'll probably lube my topre board, I've heard it makes it slightly smoother, slightly less snappy but slightly less distinct.

I've heard that 55g is more snappy than 45g, but more distinct as well. I like distinct, but dislike snappy. I don't like MX Browns, while they are technically tactile, they tactile bump is so unnoticable that I feel like they are practically linear, and I've seen a lot of topre 45g fans say they like mx browns. Personally I prefer MX Blues, despite them being snappier, simply because MX Browns don't feel tactile at all. This makes me worried that if I use a lubed 45g it won't be tactile enough for me.

That would be my second question; would you recommend 45g or 55g?

So, since you clarified the last message, onto this question. 45g Topre is noticeably less snappy than ergoclears while 55g is on par imho. I'm in the process of saving up to 55g my anniversary edition Realforce because I can't stand the 45g that much. Once that's done, the only switches I will own are blue alps, 55g Topre, and Zealios/ergoclears.

Would you say 45g Topre have an unnoticable tactile bump, like MX Browns? Or are they fine?

It's noticeable. Based on your various posts between OP and elaborating, it sounds like 45G would suit you. Many prefer 55G because of it's snappiness, so it's something you certainly want to avoid.

Thanks! I'll be going with 45g then.

[Zentennen]

get a 45g hhkb

If I'm getting 45g it'll be either fully programmable or nordic layout, I don't think HHKB is any of those.

HHKB + Hasu's Controller = Fully Programmable HHKB

That certainly gives me more options. I know HHKB's don't have backplates, how does this impact feel? Because I actually quite like bottoming out on cherry boards, so I think I'd like a backplate, that said, with all the hype around the HHKB, maybe it's mounting is even better, I don't know.

[dgneo]

get a 45g hhkb

If I'm getting 45g it'll be either fully programmable or nordic layout, I don't think HHKB is any of those.

HHKB + Hasu's Controller = Fully Programmable HHKB

That certainly gives me more options. I know HHKB's don't have backplates, how does this impact feel? Because I actually quite like bottoming out on cherry boards, so I think I'd like a backplate, that said, with all the hype around the HHKB, maybe it's mounting is even better, I don't know.

Personally, I love the plastic plate that it's on. It's the perfect combo for 45g Topre. I bottom out when I type as I type very heavy, and it feels perfectly fine for me IMO. I've also a 55g 87u (Metal Plate), in which I also bottom out, and I might like that a bit more to be honest.

[Zentennen]

get a 45g hhkb

If I'm getting 45g it'll be either fully programmable or nordic layout, I don't think HHKB is any of those.

HHKB + Hasu's Controller = Fully Programmable HHKB

That certainly gives me more options. I know HHKB's don't have backplates, how does this impact feel? Because I actually quite like bottoming out on cherry boards, so I think I'd like a backplate, that said, with all the hype around the HHKB, maybe it's mounting is even better, I don't know.

Personally, I love the plastic plate that it's on. It's the perfect combo for 45g Topre. I bottom out when I type as I type very heavy, and it feels perfectly fine for me IMO. I've also a 55g 87u (Metal Plate), in which I also bottom out, and I might like that a bit more to be honest.

How does it change the feel of the bottom out? I can imagine it might give it a bit more flex.

[klennkellon]

The HHKB sounds nicer than most topre, the plastic makes the thock more pronounced.

but the plate mounting is still sturdier and a bit more solid feeling.

[Zeal]

Of the 4 diff Zealios, 67g provides the "snappiest" tactile feedback. 65g/78g provide similar, drawn out tactile bump in the middle, with 62g being the lightest and a more-tactile-than-a-brown switch.

[Zentennen]

The HHKB sounds nicer than most topre, the plastic makes the thock more pronounced.

but the plate mounting is still sturdier and a bit more solid feeling.

I've heard about the sound a lot. I like good sound but key feel is top priority. I've heard the HHKB feels slightly, slightly mushy as a result of the plastic bending.

[Altis]

Topre is the most tactile without being what you describe as "snappy". Pretty well all the mechanical switches I've ever used have a rather notchy tactility -- there's linear travel just before, then a break point, then linear to the bottom afterwards.

Topre switches are not only the smoothest really overall, but the tactility breaks away in a smooth manner as well.

I would say that the HHKB "45g" (usually more like low 50s) is about as good as it gets. 55g Realforce Topre is just heavier but doesn't really offer more tactility in my opinion (and I own all these boards). The 45g Realforce is a bit softer than the HHKB, but it's also light enough to enjoy typing on it for extended periods. I can't do this with the 55g.

Blue Alps can be remarkably smooth actually, even though they're clicky and mechanical -- they seem to have more of a hump than a notch.

But really, "very round and very smooth" is precisely how people describe Topre... sometimes you'll hear it said as "typing on a cloud of boobs".

[bocahgundul]

The HHKB sounds nicer than most topre, the plastic makes the thock more pronounced.

but the plate mounting is still sturdier and a bit more solid feeling.

I've heard about the sound a lot. I like good sound but key feel is top priority. I've heard the HHKB feels slightly, slightly mushy as a result of the plastic bending.

Nope

who says that hhkb feels slightly mushy?

the key feels on hhkb is 2x times better than realforce

[Zentennen]

The HHKB sounds nicer than most topre, the plastic makes the thock more pronounced.

but the plate mounting is still sturdier and a bit more solid feeling.

I've heard about the sound a lot. I like good sound but key feel is top priority. I've heard the HHKB feels slightly, slightly mushy as a result of the plastic bending.

Nope

who says that hhkb feels slightly mushy?

the key feels on hhkb is 2x times better than realforce

I can't name any names, mostly because I forgot =P

I've googled a lot, and some people (very few mind you) say it's slightly mushy on the bottom out as a result of the case housing.

I've heard very mixed opinions on this. Some say the realforce feels better and some say the HHKB feels better.

I've heard more people say realforce feels better but also more people say HHKB sounds better. That might be because many people have the 55g realforce and ismply prefer 55g topre.

[bocahgundul]

The HHKB sounds nicer than most topre, the plastic makes the thock more pronounced.

but the plate mounting is still sturdier and a bit more solid feeling.

I've heard about the sound a lot. I like good sound but key feel is top priority. I've heard the HHKB feels slightly, slightly mushy as a result of the plastic bending.

Nope

who says that hhkb feels slightly mushy?

the key feels on hhkb is 2x times better than realforce

I can't name any names, mostly because I forgot =P

I've googled a lot, and some people (very few mind you) say it's slightly mushy on the bottom out as a result of the case housing.

I've heard very mixed opinions on this. Some say the realforce feels better and some say the HHKB feels better.

I've heard more people say realforce feels better but also more people say HHKB sounds better. That might be because many people have the 55g realforce and ismply prefer 55g topre.

then the only thing that can say is you have to try all of them and choose which one you liked more

[Zentennen]

The HHKB sounds nicer than most topre, the plastic makes the thock more pronounced.

but the plate mounting is still sturdier and a bit more solid feeling.

I've heard about the sound a lot. I like good sound but key feel is top priority. I've heard the HHKB feels slightly, slightly mushy as a result of the plastic bending.

Nope

who says that hhkb feels slightly mushy?

the key feels on hhkb is 2x times better than realforce

I can't name any names, mostly because I forgot =P

I've googled a lot, and some people (very few mind you) say it's slightly mushy on the bottom out as a result of the case housing.

I've heard very mixed opinions on this. Some say the realforce feels better and some say the HHKB feels better.

I've heard more people say realforce feels better but also more people say HHKB sounds better. That might be because many people have the 55g realforce and ismply prefer 55g topre.

then the only thing that can say is you have to try all of them and choose which one you liked more

I've heard that topre boards have high resell value. However, I live in Sweden, will shipping be an issue or can I go ham and try many of them?

[bocahgundul]

The HHKB sounds nicer than most topre, the plastic makes the thock more pronounced.

but the plate mounting is still sturdier and a bit more solid feeling.

I've heard about the sound a lot. I like good sound but key feel is top priority. I've heard the HHKB feels slightly, slightly mushy as a result of the plastic bending.

Nope

who says that hhkb feels slightly mushy?

the key feels on hhkb is 2x times better than realforce

I can't name any names, mostly because I forgot =P

I've googled a lot, and some people (very few mind you) say it's slightly mushy on the bottom out as a result of the case housing.

I've heard very mixed opinions on this. Some say the realforce feels better and some say the HHKB feels better.

I've heard more people say realforce feels better but also more people say HHKB sounds better. That might be because many people have the 55g realforce and ismply prefer 55g topre.

then the only thing that can say is you have to try all of them and choose which one you liked more

I've heard that topre boards have high resell value. However, I live in Sweden, will shipping be an issue or can I go ham and try many of them?

awww man the shipping and tax could be an issue for EU member

hmm I think you're best bet is to buy topre board off DT marketplace as they live in EU

[Zentennen]

The HHKB sounds nicer than most topre, the plastic makes the thock more pronounced.

but the plate mounting is still sturdier and a bit more solid feeling.

I've heard about the sound a lot. I like good sound but key feel is top priority. I've heard the HHKB feels slightly, slightly mushy as a result of the plastic bending.

Nope

who says that hhkb feels slightly mushy?

the key feels on hhkb is 2x times better than realforce

I can't name any names, mostly because I forgot =P

I've googled a lot, and some people (very few mind you) say it's slightly mushy on the bottom out as a result of the case housing.

I've heard very mixed opinions on this. Some say the realforce feels better and some say the HHKB feels better.

I've heard more people say realforce feels better but also more people say HHKB sounds better. That might be because many people have the 55g realforce and ismply prefer 55g topre.

then the only thing that can say is you have to try all of them and choose which one you liked more

I've heard that topre boards have high resell value. However, I live in Sweden, will shipping be an issue or can I go ham and try many of them?

awww Jew the shipping and tax could be an issue for EU member

hmm I think you're best bet is to buy topre board off DT marketplace as they live in EU

dt marketplace? I googled it but couldn't find anything I thought was relevant.

[bocahgundul]

@zentennen

Deskthority Marketplace

[jcoffin1981]

So I got a switch tester from NPKC with various cherry, gateron and kailh switches. Later I got Zealios and I love them. However, they are not perfect. I realize that what I want in a switch is to have it be tactile, but not snappy. The two switches that seem most like this seem to be zealio and topre.

Most of the time when you ask "zealio vs topre" people answer that they aren't comparable, so I will change the question. Which one of them is snappier? I realize there are different zealio and topre switches, what so I'd like to know which of all of their variations is the least snappy?

What I mean by "snappy" is the feeling you get on conventional mx blues, mx greens, gateron blues, etc. where you press slowly on a key, when it gets to the actuation point, you stop until you push with enough force to get over the tactile point, at which point the switch "snaps" and gives away, and drops all resistance immediately. I don't like the immediate drop. I'd like both the increase in resistance before and after actuation to happen progressively over the keystroke.

So basically I'm asking for a very round and super smooth tactile bump.

I've tried zealios, and the best way to answer my question would be to try topre as well, but I can't find a way to no matter where I go, so I have googled and tested on my own rubber domes. Personally I think the rubber domes feel a bit less snappy than even zealios, which is a good thing. What I don't like about standard rubber domes is of course the mushiness and that they aren't smooth at all. However, I've heard that topre is not mushy at all and super smooth, so that sohuldn't be a problem.

I've heard on the forums that topre has a bump in the beginning of the stroke, after which it loses resistance. The issue here is that this sounds a bit snappy, where you have to push a lot in the beginning to get over the initial bump. Can anyone with experience comment on this?

I so badly wish to topre, because they are mentioned in every other thread, and I cannot relate to the conversation.  But as it is described after acuation the resistance drops and I'm not sure if I would like this as it would seem to encourage bottoming out.  It sounds like you would like a Cherry Clear or an equivalent.  You have to get over the initial resistance of the tactile bump, and after the switch acuates the resistance increases, so it kind of decelerates the keystroke.  For me I found these too stiff.

If somebody wanted a snappy switch, to me this sounds like they desire one which returns quickly to the starting point.  PBT keycaps have a pleasant texture, but the lighter makes any switch feel more responsive, or "snappy."  So I have been going back and forth between the two keycap types.