First Topre: Which One?

[Zar7]

After enjoying Cherry MX switches for a long time (primarily MX Reds and MX Browns), I can finally set my eyes on Topre keyboards.
I was always fascinated by the thock sound it makes. Also, the smooth feel of typing really intrigued me, to the point that I cannot
rest until I use one myself.

So, the choices that I am eyeing right now:
A. Novatouch TKL = Great price, MX-compatible stems, Familiar layout, standard bottom row, plate-mounted Topre
B. HHKB Pro 2 = Pricey, Holy-Grail of mechanical keyboards, unique layout, looks awesome, case-mounted Topre
C. Leopold FC660C = Quite pricey, great build quality, familiar layout, non-standard bottom row, plate mounted Topre

The Novatouch looks great, and the MX-compatible stems opens up a lot of new possibility of keycaps customization.
However, the micro-USB is definitely not my choice of connection type (as it wiggles around a lot, which is why I prefer Mini USB).

The HHKB Pro 2 looks beautiful, with a unique layout to boot. Supposedly this is the "best" option recommended to me by many
Topre users, since it uses case-mounted Topre switches, which is supposed to be better). The typing sound is awesome as well.
However, I find it hard to justify spending $230+ for a premium mechanical keyboard made entirely from plastic. Although I really
do take care of each and every one of my keyboards, but this aspect alone delays me from getting it right away.

Finally, we have the Leopold. The Leopold has a great layout, and comes with a plate-mounted Topre (just like Novatouch). Typing sound
is really nice as well, and the overall look of the board is great. This is the one I am leaning for as of right now. However, I am still torn between
these three.

Should I go for customization option? Or should I go for the "finest" Topre keyboard ever? Or should I go for a Korean-designed Topre with great
build quality?

Please help me decide, kind folks of Geekhack!  

[dgneo]

HHKB or 55g RF87u

[Zar7]

1 vote for HHKB.

As for the RealForce, I am not really digging the design. It just does not look right to me. Not to say it is not an awesome board.
Typed on a 55g once, and it definitely feels great to type on. The only thing I disliked is its design and shape.
If only RF comes in a 68& layout.

[xtrafrood]

I think you already know which Topre is best. Might be beneficial to skip the Novatouch for now if you're after a quiet keyboard that needs very little modification.

[mike52787]

How is the fc660c? Ive been thinking about buying one.

[HeeCh2ei]

How is the fc660c? Ive been thinking about buying one.

It's Topre. What do you want to know?

[mike52787]

How is the fc660c? Ive been thinking about buying one.

It's Topre. What do you want to know?

Ive heard that not all topre boards are created equal. (ex novatouch doesnt feel like realforce). Just wondering where the fc660c falls in the topre board lineup.

[xtrafrood]

How is the fc660c? Ive been thinking about buying one.

It's Topre. What do you want to know?

Ive heard that not all topre boards are created equal. (ex novatouch doesnt feel like realforce). Just wondering where the fc660c falls in the topre board lineup.

Sort of the same ballpark as Realforce keyboards. There are quite a few videos that include typing sound on youtube

[HeeCh2ei]

How is the fc660c? Ive been thinking about buying one.

It's Topre. What do you want to know?

Ive heard that not all topre boards are created equal. (ex novatouch doesnt feel like realforce). Just wondering where the fc660c falls in the topre board lineup.

Novatouch is that different due to the Topre conspiracy: https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=82483.msg2186584#msg2186584
I think 660C and Realforces in the same league. I compared typing videos of RFs with my 660c. Typing sound is the same, stabs rattle is the same (on NT or HHKB it is different).
At first I decided to buy a Novatouch, but after I inspect some photos of its top case I went to Realforce, and then to 660c.

[lancre]

OP, may I ask why the Realforce boards aren't on the radar?

I don't think you should get a Novatouch. I got one and it's nice, but it just isn't the same as the other Topre options. The slider clack as it hits the top of the housing means that you have to spend more time and money to get it to sound better. Get the Novatouch if you can't live without custom keycaps.

[bocahgundul]

HHKB and be sure to get the normal version and not the type S

[rowdy]

1. HHKB if you need the portability or just like the layout, otherwise 55g RealForce.

2. FC660C.

3. Novatouch.

If MX-compatible keycaps are more important, then maybe move the Novatouch up a notch.  Although you can put MX-compatible sliders in the other keyboards it is a lot of fiddling around and you lose the uniqueness of native Topre switches.

[Zar7]

OP, may I ask why the Realforce boards aren't on the radar?

Well, the main reason is that I do not really like RF's design. As much as it is one of the best Topre option in the market (alongside the HHKB),
I find myself disliking the looks of the RF in general. HHKB and FC660C is fine, but the RF just looks too bulky for me.

Since Novatouch is mostly not recommended (apart from their compatibility with MX keycaps), it comes down to Leopold against the HHKB.
I really like both actually, which makes me harder for me to decide. If only I can try both and make a decision after that.

In terms of looks, I like the HHKB slightly more. It just looks sleek and compact (especially with the subtle black legends). The Leo looks
nice too, but I prefer the HHKB a bit more for how it looks.

Then comes build quality. As for this aspect, I wonder how case-mounted Topre go up against plate-mounted Topre in terms of durability.
I understand having the switches case-mounted does not affect durability at all. But the steel plate of the Leopold is reassuring, at least for me.

[MajorKoos]

If you just want a keyboard it boils down to your preference in form factor (60%/TKL or full) and switch weight.
There are some other options you could also consider:
 - Topre Type Heaven (104 key 45g uniform)
 - HHKB (45g uniform)
 - Ducky - mk.com has a range of 104 key Ducky's in 35g, 45g and 55g weights

The real question is what do you want to get out of the experience?

My Novatouch is my favorite board, but is wasn't straight out of the box.
First I had to do the EK silencing pad mod in conjunction with some grease on the stabs to stop the chattering of the keys.
Then I used a dremel to cut the lips off the base plate and very carefully sanded the edges of the board to make it fit in a aluminum case.
Because it's a bit thicker (2mm or so) I also needed to get longer screws for the case and add some spacers in places.
I added some Tai Hao sunshine caps and now I have a great looking kbd which is super quiet and smooth as butter to type on. 

[toxicdrift]

55g realforce

[_PixelNinja]

My opinion is not a popular one here, but I while I do like the HHKB very much for its feel and intelligent use of the 60% layout, I find the build quality/design to be underwhelming for the price : creaky chassis, screw + tab assembly, small, non efficient rubber feet at the front, no rubber feet at the back of the case nor on the risers etc. In that regard, I find the fC660C to be a more solid product for the money.

On a side note, regarding Mini-USB vs. Micro-USB — Micro-USB is the superior version as it is rated for more connect-disconnect cycles and is designed so that the mechanical wear occurs on the male connector, as opposed to the female connector on Mini-USB : it's much easier and convenient to replace a cable than having to replace a connector on the PCB. And for what it's worth, the Micro-USB connector on the Novatouch is very solidly implemented.

[rowdy]

HHKB durability is fine.  People have been using them for years and they just keep working.

The biggest complaint is often the weight, or lack thereof, causing the HHKB to slide around the desk while typing.  I solved that with a folded sheet of drawer liner underneath it.  That had the effect of dampening the echo from my desk, making the Topre sound even more so.

[_PixelNinja]

I solved that with a folded sheet of drawer liner underneath it.

You might already know this and it might not even be a concern for you, but just in case, and as a heads up — over time there is risk the shelf liner will permanently mark the underside of your keyboard. Here is an example :



Otherwise, in regards to the HHKB moving around, in my opinion it has more to do with PFU cheaping out than anything else; if they had designed the keyboard with proper rubber feet in all four corners and on the risers, it would be much less of an issue. This is why I would like to see them update the Pro 2 with the same chassis as the Pro 2 BT, minus the battery lump.

[SpAmRaY]

I solved that with a folded sheet of drawer liner underneath it.

You might already know this and it might not even be a concern for you, but just in case, and as a heads up — over time there is risk the shelf liner will permanently mark the underside of your keyboard. Here is an example :

Show Image

Otherwise, in regards to the HHKB moving around, in my opinion it has more to do with PFU cheaping out than anything else; if they had designed the keyboard with proper rubber feet in all four corners and on the risers, it would be much less of an issue. This is why I would like to see them update the Pro 2 with the same chassis as the Pro 2 BT, minus the battery lump.

For some reason I was thinking this was an older model that was shown to be a white case painted black rather than the current case which is actually molded black plastic.

I've been using my black hhkb with drawer liner for she time now without issue.

[_PixelNinja]

For some reason I was thinking this was an older model that was shown to be a white case painted black rather than the current case which is actually molded black plastic.

I've been using my black hhkb with drawer liner for she time now without issue.

I am not aware of the details nor do I have the knowledge to comment on whether only a certain batch of keyboards are concerned, if it depends on the specific type of shelf liner, a combination thereof or if other factors come into play. All I can say is that I have seen this enough to know that it does happen and that it might be a good a idea to mention the risk.

[SpAmRaY]

For some reason I was thinking this was an older model that was shown to be a white case painted black rather than the current case which is actually molded black plastic.

I've been using my black hhkb with drawer liner for she time now without issue.

I am not aware of the details nor do I have the knowledge to comment on whether only a certain batch of keyboards are concerned, if it depends on the specific type of shelf liner, a combination thereof or if other factors come into play. All I can say is that I have seen this enough to know that it does happen and that it might be a good a idea to mention the risk.

I'm curious where else you've seen this besides limmy's photo? I did research this some time ago.

Caution should always be taken of course as everyone's environments also have differences.

Another option is fohat.digs sells rubber mats (https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=59308.0) they work very well also.

[_PixelNinja]

I'm curious where else you've seen this besides limmy's photo? I did research this some time ago.

I've seen here on Geekhack — in fact it was here I saw it for the first time — but when I went back to try and find the photos, for some reason all I could find was Limmy's. I have also seen it in person on a few acquaintance's HHKB Pro 2s.

[Hypersphere]

You must decide for yourself, but if it could be helpful to know something of the experience of others, here is my take on some Topre-switch keyboards:

1. HHKB Pro 2, black, silenced and lubed. It took me a long time to acquire this. I resisted because of the high price, seemingly alien layout, and 60% form factor that had no arrow keys. However, after finally trying it, I took to it immediately. The layout turned out to be efficient and intuitive, and I now prefer a 60% form factor over all others because of the symmetry and space savings.

2. RF87UB55, silenced and lubed. This board is elegant and refined. I like the solid sound and feel, but I wish it were a 60% format. I use Hasu's USB-USB converter to remap the board to something as close as possible to the HHKB layout. The RF does not have a detachable cable, but yesterday I installed a Pexon dongle -- this is not as nice as a panel-mount connector, but it is better than having a 5 ft attached cable. The RF has some nice features such as CapsLock and NumLock LEDs and an embedded numeric keypad activated by the NumLock key.

3. RF87UB45, silenced and lubed. This comes very close to the 55g version, and I prefer some of its features, such as the red LED indicators.

3. Leopold FC660C. This was my first Topre-switch keyboard. I like the solid sound and feel, but the form factor and layout are not quite to my liking. I have discovered that I like two formats: 60% and TKL, but I don't like anything in between or anything larger than TKL.

4. CM Novatouch. This one definitely needs to be silenced and lubed. Afterward, it comes close to the sound and feel of the RF87U. This board has a micro-USB connector. I prefer mini-USB because this is the cable that I keep connected to my system. I have added a short micro-mini USB converter cable to the NT. In theory, this board enables you to install Cherry mx keycaps, but I have found that not all Cherry sets work well. I prefer the sound and feel of PBT keycaps in OEM format on the NT. The board has a hard-wired Fn key for its own functions, which I do not like because I prefer to remap my own Fn key and define my own functions. This results in having a dead Fn key on the bottom row. This is not a problem with the RF, because it does not have a hard-wired Fn key. The NT also does not have lock indicators and it does not have an embedded numeric keypad like the RF.