high end keyboards

[exia]

http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16823114004&Tpk=Razer%20Lycosa%20keyboard

jealous?

[mp29k]

Huh?  Why would anyone be jealous?  it is a fine looking keyboard, but mechanically, it looks pretty crappy.

[exia]

WASD anti ghosting technology!

[overdriver]

I was looking for a good gaming keyboard so I check that link.

OMG it has anti-ghosting only for WASD (4 keys) gosh.. this is terrible for this price.

here is one of the reviewers description (not mine) " All other keys have no anti-ghosting and cannot be pressed at the same time. This feature is present on every other gaming keyboard I've ever owned and is a MUST HAVE in any gaming enviroment. The person who designed this part of the keyboard epicly failed."

 = no Nkey rollover

lol this is a worthless even for gaming.

[InSanCen]

http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16823114004&Tpk=Razer%20Lycosa%20keyboard

jealous?

No.

My '90 model M wails all over that overpriced designer crap. Hit me up with a UT99, Halo2 or NFSU:MW link (The only games I play) and I'll happily hand you your arse on a plate using it. If I pull out the Cherry or ALPS based boards, I get a little better. Take your pick.

A keyboard, while helpful, does NOT make a good gamer. Practice and skill DOES. That keyboard sucks not only at typing but at gaming as well, and I daresay it feels like **** as well. Get over it.

[microsoft windows]

My Model M5-2 that l got for free could crush that $85 piece of rubber dome crap. That keyboard is more ridiculous (pricewise) than a Topre (You get good quality stuff for all that money)

[chimera15]

At one point not long ago I suspected maybe you weren't the typical troll...maybe you had valid points, maybe you weren't trying to litter the site with junk.

But, well, I suppose I was wrong.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cdiz0k0Rudw

lol boxxy!!

[chimera15]

So popular it's used at firing ranges.

>

[ricercar]

jealous that newegg sells keyboards? no, not lately.

nosh nosh nosh. yummy troll.

[PRISONER 24601]

What if he's not trolling? what if he just hasn't seen the glory and wisdom that come to your life- the joy and relevance that you experience after spending a few weeks on a plate-mounted tenkeyless blue cherry switched 'board topped with 1.5g doubleshot POM keycaps. You don't get that kind of joy out of regular life. If you can't understand the magnificence of things capacitive tactile switches, you're either a complete ****ing **** for brains, or just brainwashed by the pro-rubber dome media. goddamn sheep. well, that's what you get with americans, dumping their **** products all over the world because they know that other americans are stupid enough to pay $85 for a $1 plastic piece of **** keyboard. Most people don't understand how important quality input devices are. Sadly, I don't think they ever will.

[NOMiS]

So popular it's used at firing ranges.

>

[exia]

don't you people feel bad that others are spending that much coin on such an "inferior" keyboard when the same amount of money can buy a much better mechanical keyboard? and every new keyboard purchase will mean a lost sale for a superior mechanical keyboard.

[HaaTa]

don't you people feel bad that others are spending that much coin on such an "inferior" keyboard when the same amount of money can buy a much better mechanical keyboard? and every new keyboard purchase will mean a lost sale for a superior mechanical keyboard.

Their loss? More for me?

[NOMiS]

Any pics?  I'd like like to see a paint splattered G15.

I only have pics of how dirty it was.

but I have a video. Go to 1:25 to get a good view.

Its still in that shed.

[ch_123]

don't you people feel bad that others are spending that much coin on such an "inferior" keyboard when the same amount of money can buy a much better mechanical keyboard? and every new keyboard purchase will mean a lost sale for a superior mechanical keyboard.

No?

[pikapika]

don't you people feel bad that others are spending that much coin on such an "inferior" keyboard when the same amount of money can buy a much better mechanical keyboard? and every new keyboard purchase will mean a lost sale for a superior mechanical keyboard.

what's your point ?

[microsoft windows]

don't you people feel bad that others are spending that much coin on such an "inferior" keyboard when the same amount of money can buy a much better mechanical keyboard? and every new keyboard purchase will mean a lost sale for a superior mechanical keyboard.

People can buy whatever keyboard they want. It can be a rip-off, but if they're happy with it, good for them. There are people who hate mechanical keyboards (Ever heard "Can't stand that noise!"?) because of the noise of some or feeling different. So if they're happy spending big bucks for whatever piece of rubber dome plastic floats their boat, that's fine with me.

[ricercar]

don't you people feel bad that others are spending that much coin on such an "inferior" keyboard when the same amount of money can buy a much better mechanical keyboard? and every new keyboard purchase will mean a lost sale for a superior mechanical keyboard.

People have free will. I'm in no way responsible for a stranger's bad decisions. And like someone else said, more more mechanicals for us if the uninformed buy rubber domes.

[sethstorm]

Funny thing is that on my terminal keyboard, hulking behemoth that it is, I've had W, shift, A, E, Ctrl, SetUp (far left bottom key) and sometimes Q all pressed at the same time without the slightest sign of an issue (Garry's Mod, try it some time).

Meet the answer to your problem, gamers: '80s terminal keyboards!

Indeed.

But is there a way to solve the repeat issue w/o inputremapper (and thus getting in the way of some Cherry SPOS/RC boards)?  If I did, I'd put the black Trackpoint M13 away and go back to using my Terminal keyboard.  Having that extra 'Home' key is a LOT more useful where it is, as well as having the function keys on the left side.  

My only complaint is that some games will not like software remapping.

As for that problem, I have a Cherry SPOS G86-63410 sitting right next to me.  142 hardware remappable keys, the only thing better (from Cherry) is a RC128BM with Cherry MX switches.


Razer isn't so much highend as much as it's window dressing for a cheaply made rubber dome keyboard, and it shows.  I made the mistake of getting one of their Tarantulas, which couldn't last a few months without missing on keypresses.

[alpslover]

I could see them charging, say, $50 USD for a "good gaming keyboard" - rubber dome of course, all the bells and whistles, maybe even a G15-style LCD. That would be something like the "cream of the crop" for (traditional) rubber dome keyboards.

Then you'd have your mid range in the 20-35 dollar range, low range being below 20.

That would be way more reasonable for rubber dome boards.

but your reasoning is that of a consumer who is arguably not even really all that interested in that particular product at that 'premium' price point.  i.e. you are not the target market.  

instead, think about it from the manufacturer's perspective - why would they sell a keyboard for $50 when they can sell just as many for $100?  the target market perceives things like backlit keys and lcd displays to be useful and thus to be of value, so they're willing to pay more for them.  just as we perceive mechanical switches to be of value, so we're willing to pay a premium...

[Buckling_Summer]

I love my Model M. Mmmmmmmmmmmmmmm!

[didjamatic]

I just hate that keyboard manufacturers are too cheap to buy a $1 worth of diodes and use doubleshot keys.

Cherry is no longer making 2-shot keys btw, I just spoke with them directly.  They are doing Laser if someone wants high quality caps because the cost of producing H key caps became too high.  What's already out there is all there will be.

[itlnstln]

I wonder why H tripped them up so bad. That's truly a shame.
 
EDIT: Hold on, I get it.  I'm still recovering from vacation.

[alpslover]

Certainly, from the manufacturer's perspective, why the hell would they EVER lower the price?

well, one reason they might lower the price is if nobody buys them at the current price.

- it isn't the product we hate, it is how the manufacturers consider them good enough to apply a premium price to them

again, the premium price is applied because people will buy them at that price.  if you want something to hate, hate the consumers who are purchasing these 'gimmicky' keyboards.

(at least that's what I hate - I don't care if crappy products exist so long as they aren't passed off as anything better than crappy)

but what is 'better' is also just your opinion.  the people who buy $100 'gimmicky' rubber dome keyboards do it because they perceive that it is worth it in some way.  these same people might find it ludicrous to spend $100 or more on a keyboard whose only neat trick is that it makes clicking sounds when you press the keys.

[sixty]

Cherry is no longer making 2-shot keys btw, I just spoke with them directly.  They are doing Laser if someone wants high quality caps because the cost of producing H key caps became too high.  What's already out there is all there will be.

Must be for the consumer market only. They still do make double shot keycaps if requested on OEM orders. I sent them a letter last week and they confirmed that double shot keys are still available on request, however only in black.

[timw4mail]

Must be for the consumer market only. They still do make double shot keycaps if requested on OEM orders. I sent them a letter last week and they confirmed that double shot keys are still available on request, however only in black.

Do they have the Laser on white/gray still? That's about the only way I consider Laser acceptable.

High end keyboards should have:

If black : double-shot keys
If white/grey : dye-sublimated/lasered keys

Or, at least they should be made of a durable plastic.

[didjamatic]

They may be able to do special orders for oems, I mean if a company wants you go make enough of anything, you'll do it, right?

From the email Cherry sent me:  "The H (2-shot molded) keycaps are no longer available due to their high cost. We now use L which stands for lasered keycaps. Lasered keycaps will last just as long as the H."

[itlnstln]

Is that a pic of double shot light?

[ricercar]

That's a shot of kishy looking down on us?

[keyb_gr]

High end keyboards should have:

If black : double-shot keys
If white/grey : dye-sublimated/lasered keys

Or, at least they should be made of a durable plastic.

Close. They should be made of a durable plastic in any case, and for light-colored keys either dye sublimation or HEAVY lasering like some early/mid-'90s boards like my old Packard Bell / BTC had. On most lasered boards the contrast is decidedly insufficient. Cherry ones are workable but absolutely pale (literally) when viewed side by side with older ones employing doubleshot or dye sublimated lettering.
(I wouldn't mind having two-shade keys back either, it structures the board visibly better.)

On a consumer-level board, I wouldn't mind the "decals" - good contrast and absolutely decent durability, just not as pretty.

I hope you folks know that doubleshots are a pain for the manufacturer (extra molds for every single version of every key in all the layouts) and normally only pay off for large amounts of keys? I'd think the folks at IBM were extremely happy about dye sublimation, given how many different variants they had to supply. Lasered lettering makes it even easier, since whole boards can be labeled after assembly.

[microsoft windows]

Oh NOOOOOOOOoooooooo!

Show Image

In the mood for some egg-dog?

[sethstorm]

Swap your PS/2 port driver (if running Win2k/XP) and the repeat thing goes away. It does of course cause the keys NOT to repeat but I've found this, for some reason, doesn't affect Source engine games and those are the only ones I play...so I haven't witnessed problems. It seems the Source engine only cares about make and break codes, and considers a key to be "still pressed" as long as the break code hasn't been received yet.

Also speaking for Source games, I found my remaps do work in them. I had mapped a couple keys on the left F block to volume controls and one of the top block is Esc - these work in game. I had mapped the keys on the lower top row as F1-F12 and the ones in the row above as F13 and up...unfortunately you can't bind keys to "F17" for example in the game console, it just doesn't recognize such a key is real.

I don't have that repeat issue(the one w/o the swapped driver), just the other one that I do from the swap.  As for key layout, you *can* force them to tell Windows that you indeed have a F17 key.  Whether the application will recognize it is another story.  

Wouldn't mind grabbing another Terminal board(F preferably, but M is fine), as I've already made a 6pin->RJ45 adapter for one.  Use straight-through Twisted Pair or Shielded Twisted Pair to another jack, and you can wire the other jack to have any plug you please.  While it's not SDL, it's an improvement.

I don't have to be in the target market to speak for fairness for all consumers.

Certainly, from the manufacturer's perspective, why the hell would they EVER lower the price?

However, manufacturers of rubber dome keyboards are our "enemies" - it isn't the product we hate, it is how the manufacturers consider them good enough to apply a premium price to them (at least that's what I hate - I don't care if crappy products exist so long as they aren't passed off as anything better than crappy). Doesn't make a whole lot of sense to make arguments in favour of "the enemy".

That can be summed up in the phrase "customers we can afford to lose".  For that reason, I've coughed up the extra expense for server/business market gear and even find *that* a bit lacking as of late.  Same thing applies whether it's display panels (S-IPS [aka Flexview] on a laptop disappearing) or keyboards (where it seems that you can make a cheap rubber dome fancy and then pass it off as a gaming keyboard).

I've learned that if you build it cheap, you're just asking for trouble down the road(even if you have metric tons of cheapness at your disposal a la Google).