Why do most like plate vs PCB mount?

[Krustyboomer]

Seems like there is a lot of plate mount switch builds going on.  What's the main reason?  Feel, looks??  Seems like if anything goes wrong there's a lot of desoldering just to get at the PCB.  And it's harder/impossible to pop the tops off switches to mess with the innards?

Trying to plan a first build and I seem to be leaning PCB mount.  Am I wrong?

[kawasaki161]

Most aftermarket plates support switch top removal, so the "popping a switch open" is just as easy as with PCB mounted.
A plate looks cleaner than a PCB, at least to most people.
It takes away a lot of stress on the PCB, which can be problematic if you are heavy handed, it also feels more solid.
And lastly it makes true custom builds a lot easier since you can just go the sandwich route or attach the plate to the case without having to worry about mounting the PCB.

[ideus]

Trying to answer your question, you may use PCB mounted switches that will give you the easiest top removal option, unless you install in-switch LEDs, that should have dip sockets if you want to still remove the switch tops. If you want to go the plate route, you should take care of getting a plate with notches to allow switch top removal. It will not be as easy as with PCB mounted switches but it is doable. If you want to make small changes in the layout, the PCB mounted switches is the best option allowing for full freedom regarding alternative layouts, the only limit will be the PCB itself, plates will have a bit more limitations than PCBs alone; but, still there are "universal" plates that allow some options. Sixty keyboards are the niche that offers more options regarding PCBs and plates, followed by TKL, full size customs are not that popular.

The final overall feeling and sound of your keyboard are multidimensional responses, where the factors are at least, the case, the case's feet, if any, the plate, the PCB, the switches, key caps installed and even the surface you will put it on to type. Their materials, thickness, final weight, to mention some of the basic ones; therefore, there is no single factor that drives the entire typing experience, so the PCB vs plate mounted option is one important aspect of your build, but it cannot define the entire thing by itself.

As most fellows, you should take on your quest in looking for the best setup for your needs and likes. Again, the options ranges from plastic to metal cases, aluminum and steel plates, cheap and expensive PCBs, cheap and expensive key caps, multitude of switch options, colors, stems, springs, just talking about MX; but you may consider ALPS, because BS and Topre are not that customization friendly. Good luck.

[merlin64]

I actually use PCB mount switches with a plate.

I have this fear that if I just use plate mount, one day I'm going to be swapping switch tops, or removing tight keycaps, and I'm going to pull and break the solder joint. However if the plate I'm using doesn't have switch top removal, then I'm willing to use plate mount switches.

Generally I always buy PCB mount because if I choose to do plate mount only, I just have to snip off the side stems.

[ideus]

I actually use PCB mount switches with a plate.

I have this fear that if I just use plate mount, one day I'm going to be swapping switch tops, or removing tight keycaps, and I'm going to pull and break the solder joint. However if the plate I'm using doesn't have switch top removal, then I'm willing to use plate mount switches.

Generally I always buy PCB mount because if I choose to do plate mount only, I just have to snip off the side stems.

PCB mount switches are better because of the two pins that help to keep them straight while soldering them, and are additional mechanical supports. Breaking a solder joint by changing the switch top is very unlikely, even with PCB mounted switches.

[xtrafrood]

Stress relief for the PCB, feels, and sounds. Like kawasaki161 mentioned, there are a lot of aftermarket plates that allow the user easy switch access.

[davkol]

Most people have never (knowingly) used a PCB-mount keyboard; most people switch from a flimsy rubber-dome keyboard to a more consistent "mechanical" keyboard with a metal plate, which obviously feels very different and sturdier— then they judge keyboards based on the whole package. (You can replace "most people" by "noobs", if you want.)

Using a plate kind of makes sense, considering that most keyboards are full-size. It really does add support. However, that doesn't mean a PCB-mount keyboard can't be solid, see for example Cherry G80-1000. Maybe it's cheaper for OEMs to use a plate instead of cutting extra holes in the PCB and making better cases.

Another reason for using a plate is support for switches. For example, Matias/Alps switches require a plate, they don't have those extra support pins of Cherry MX.

Neither necessarily has to concern you, if you're an enthusiast, not a large company, but switches can be opened for modification even with a plate (Matias/Alps as is, Cherry MX and clones with special cutouts in custom plates), and some people hand-wire their keyboards, because it's cheaper and somewhat easier than having a custom PCB made.

That being said, I prefer PCB-mount keyboards. I like the slightly softer feel and sound, there's no need for a custom plate with special cutouts, and the keyboard is lighter overall (if I need to carry it around)… it doesn't feel flimsy either, if it's compact enough (which I prefer) or has a more solid case.

[ideus]

I have not disclosed my personal preference, yet; but, I prefer PCB mount keyboards, their positive slight flex when typing, make them great for extensive use, I type a lot in my line of work and therefore, this small feature makes a huge difference on long job days. I also like to make small changes in my layout and to the stems and springs of my switches, and PCB mount is the best for both.

[chyros]

A mounting plate adds structural sturdiness, and protects the switches from impacts. I have a PCB-mounted Aristotle "board" in which some switches actually don't point straight up anymore because they got moved around.

[ideus]

A mounting plate adds structural sturdiness, and protects the switches from impacts. I have a PCB-mounted Aristotle "board" in which some switches actually don't point straight up anymore because they got moved around.

Basic physics does not match with your claim: How "some" switches got out of position, unless the soldering work was very poor, or the board got a very strong knock. I have been using a Nerd60 PCB assembled with no plate and fitted inside an acrylic case with no single issue. It is true that a plate adds rigidity to a keyboard assembly, but PCB mounted switches cannot get bended just by typing on them.

[Findecanor]

Cherry's PCB-mounted boards have fixing pins and a jumper or diode on every switch. A solder joint in each corner prevents pulling, and the fixing pins prevent twisting.

I have never seen a Aristotle switch with fixing pins or jumpers.
If you have a keyboard with those switches without a plate, then it is constructed wrong.

[chyros]

A mounting plate adds structural sturdiness, and protects the switches from impacts. I have a PCB-mounted Aristotle "board" in which some switches actually don't point straight up anymore because they got moved around.

Basic physics does not match with your claim: How "some" switches got out of position, unless the soldering work was very poor, or the board got a very strong knock. I have been using a Nerd60 PCB assembled with no plate and fitted inside an acrylic case with no single issue. It is true that a plate adds rigidity to a keyboard assembly, but PCB mounted switches cannot get bended just by typing on them.

Maybe I'm describing it badly. One switch is now basically permanently making out with another because I pulled a keycap off of it. It simply won't keep when I try to push it back into place. On the way back I accidentally kneed it in the board. those are now misaligned either, and won't reset. If they had been mounted in a plate, that obviously wouldn't be a problem.

[ideus]

A mounting plate adds structural sturdiness, and protects the switches from impacts. I have a PCB-mounted Aristotle "board" in which some switches actually don't point straight up anymore because they got moved around.

Basic physics does not match with your claim: How "some" switches got out of position, unless the soldering work was very poor, or the board got a very strong knock. I have been using a Nerd60 PCB assembled with no plate and fitted inside an acrylic case with no single issue. It is true that a plate adds rigidity to a keyboard assembly, but PCB mounted switches cannot get bended just by typing on them.

Maybe I'm describing it badly. One switch is now basically permanently making out with another because I pulled a keycap off of it. It simply won't keep when I try to push it back into place. On the way back I accidentally kneed it in the board. those are now misaligned either, and won't reset. If they had been mounted in a plate, that obviously wouldn't be a problem.

That makes sense, even more if the switches does not the two pins that PCB mount Cherry and other similar switches have.

[Hypersphere]

I have not disclosed my personal preference, yet; but, I prefer PCB mount keyboards, their positive slight flex when typing, make them great for extensive use, I type a lot in my line of work and therefore, this small feature makes a huge difference on long job days. I also like to make small changes in my layout and to the stems and springs of my switches, and PCB mount is the best for both.

Agree with this. I think that many people have not had the opportunity to try PCB-mount switches, but for those who make their own keyboards or buy custom-made ones, they can then enter the world of PCB-mount and possibly discover that they like them better.

For similar reasons, I like the feel of case-mounted Topre switches in my HHKB Pro 2 better than than the plate-mounted Topre switches in my RF87U. When I first start typing on the RF, I enjoy the solid sound and feel, but I find the unyielding plate-mounted switches to be fatiguing after long typing sessions. In contrast, I can type all day on the HHKB without experiencing fatigue.

[Bucake]

When I first start typing on the RF, I enjoy the solid sound and feel, but I find the unyielding plate-mounted switches to be fatiguing after long typing sessions. In contrast, I can type all day on the HHKB without experiencing fatigue.

sounds familiar!
which is why the HHKB is my daily, but i do love to take out the Realforce for a proper sessions every now and then.
i don't think i'll ditch the Realforce any time soon, and even though it gets used a lot less.
the HHKB is just so much more practical for me. programmable, the weighting, its size, and i guess not having a sturdy plate also helps for fatigue. i even use it for gaming, including FPS games

[ideus]

I have not disclosed my personal preference, yet; but, I prefer PCB mount keyboards, their positive slight flex when typing, make them great for extensive use, I type a lot in my line of work and therefore, this small feature makes a huge difference on long job days. I also like to make small changes in my layout and to the stems and springs of my switches, and PCB mount is the best for both.

Agree with this. I think that many people have not had the opportunity to try PCB-mount switches, but for those who make their own keyboards or buy custom-made ones, they can then enter the world of PCB-mount and possibly discover that they like them better.

For similar reasons, I like the feel of case-mounted Topre switches in my HHKB Pro 2 better than than the plate-mounted Topre switches in my RF87U. When I first start typing on the RF, I enjoy the solid sound and feel, but I find the unyielding plate-mounted switches to be fatiguing after long typing sessions. In contrast, I can type all day on the HHKB without experiencing fatigue.

I am typing this on a plate mounted keyboard with Zealios and the rigidity of the plate takes out most of the softness of the switches, while I like the feeling and appearance of plate mounted keyboards, I'd take a PCB mount one any time.

[jcoffin1981]

I actually use PCB mount switches with a plate.

I have this fear that if I just use plate mount, one day I'm going to be swapping switch tops, or removing tight keycaps, and I'm going to pull and break the solder joint. However if the plate I'm using doesn't have switch top removal, then I'm willing to use plate mount switches.

Generally I always buy PCB mount because if I choose to do plate mount only, I just have to snip off the side stems.

It's pretty difficult to break a solder joint.  It's more likely that you will pull a switch from the PCB. 

My poker 3 pcb has holes to allow for switches that are intended for pcb mount.  However many of the holes were too narrow pop the switch in all the way, so I still ended up cutting off those side stems.

[Morituri]

Most aftermarket plates support switch top removal, so the "popping a switch open" is just as easy as with PCB mounted.

What is the *physical* difference between a plate that supports switch top removal and one that does not?  I ask because I've just been making 14mm square holes for Cherry/Gateron switches, and 15.5x12.8mm rectangular holes for Alps/Matias switches.  If I can make better plates by doing something more complicated I'd like to know.

Ob-OP:  I prefer plates in purchased keyboards because I use a lot of force typing and I just don't trust that the PCB bouncing up and down will not eventually break a trace.  That has actually happened to me several times.  Also, I just prefer the feel of the keyboard not bouncing.  Even with a PCB mounted board, I'd want one with stiff standoffs at 3-key intervals or so to something rigid for support.

And when I'm building, I prefer a plate mostly because I wouldn't bother building unless experimenting with layout, and one-off PCBs for original layouts are just too much bother and expense to have fabbed.  One-off plates, on the other hand, I can do with a $12.50 16 gauge 8x24 inch plate of mild steel plate from the lumber yard, a hand router, a jig, and an appropriate milling bit.  So it's way cheap to just make a plate and then hand-wire the switches.

[kawasaki161]

What is the *physical* difference between a plate that supports switch top removal and one that does not?  I ask because I've just been making 14mm square holes for Cherry/Gateron switches, and 15.5x12.8mm rectangular holes for Alps/Matias switches.  If I can make better plates by doing something more complicated I'd like to know.

I don't know the exact sizes, since I did not have to design a plate yet, but the normal cutout has a special shape, there are 2 common ways this is done. I'll insert pictures (of the 2 versions of the Sentraq plate), you should probably be able to spot the differences to the normal squares.

The second one is a bit harder to spot, pay attention to the corners of the cutout, these cutouts are wider, but the teeth (I've got no better way of describing this) in the corners still prevent the switch from being loose.

[Findecanor]

Alps switches don't need any special hole than the standard-sized one.

Cherry MX has snaps that need to expand towards the sides when the switch is opened, and a perfectly square hole would prevent that.
See this thread for a discussion on several hole types.

[Morituri]

Thanx!

So it looks like allowing for removing the keytop means making the hole about 1.5mm wider, except for a 5mm area in the middle.  That's mechanically fine for a laser, waterjet, or CNC milling, but more difficult with a jig-guided router. To make it work I'd have to mount a matching jig on the base of the router itself. 

Hmmm.  How often do I need to pop keyswitches apart?  Not very damned often.  I don't think this is important for me.

Good to know if I ever make plates to sell, though.  I would probably do that on a desktop mill, so it'd be a simple mod to the G-code file.

[xtrafrood]

Thanx!

So it looks like allowing for removing the keytop means making the hole about 1.5mm wider, except for a 5mm area in the middle.  That's mechanically fine for a laser, waterjet, or CNC milling, but more difficult with a jig-guided router. To make it work I'd have to mount a matching jig on the base of the router itself. 

Hmmm.  How often do I need to pop keyswitches apart?  Not very damned often.  I don't think this is important for me.

Good to know if I ever make plates to sell, though.  I would probably do that on a desktop mill, so it'd be a simple mod to the G-code file.

How often do you need to pop the keyswitches apart? As often as you would like I guess. It's a lot easier to store extra switches than it is to store extra keyboards

[Hypersphere]

When I first start typing on the RF, I enjoy the solid sound and feel, but I find the unyielding plate-mounted switches to be fatiguing after long typing sessions. In contrast, I can type all day on the HHKB without experiencing fatigue.

sounds familiar!
which is why the HHKB is my daily, but i do love to take out the Realforce for a proper sessions every now and then.
i don't think i'll ditch the Realforce any time soon, and even though it gets used a lot less.
the HHKB is just so much more practical for me. programmable, the weighting, its size, and i guess not having a sturdy plate also helps for fatigue. i even use it for gaming, including FPS games

Having said this as a partial rationalization to myself for liking my HHKB, quite often when I am typing on the HHKB, I find myself wishing it had plate-mounted switches, like the RF87U. And when I am typing on the RF, I would prefer it to be a 60% instead of a TKL. It would be nice if RF or PFU would produce a plate-mounted 60% Topre-switch keyboard. I think there would be quite a few people who would like to have this option.

[jcoffin1981]

Plate mounted switches will also make the keyboard heavier and give a sturdier typing feel as the steel plate will not flex as much when you type.  Some may actually prefer PCB mounted switches as it offer more "cushion" as you bottom out.  I personally have not tried a board with pcb mounts. 

Steel plate and an aluminium case; you now have a super sturdy and heavy keyboard this will not flex at all.

[ideus]

Thanx!

So it looks like allowing for removing the keytop means making the hole about 1.5mm wider, except for a 5mm area in the middle.  That's mechanically fine for a laser, waterjet, or CNC milling, but more difficult with a jig-guided router. To make it work I'd have to mount a matching jig on the base of the router itself. 

Hmmm.  How often do I need to pop keyswitches apart?  Not very damned often.  I don't think this is important for me.

Good to know if I ever make plates to sell, though.  I would probably do that on a desktop mill, so it'd be a simple mod to the G-code file.

This is a switch opening designed by Swill that allows switch top opening.