Author Topic: Digit's aspiratational keyboard notions thread.  (Read 3341 times)

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Offline Digit

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Digit's aspiratational keyboard notions thread.
« on: Thu, 07 July 2016, 13:22:56 »
well... my rambles about my interface aspirations are growing too big to put in irc.   ... n prolly better to have em in a forum, rather than drift away into the forgottedness.  especially since i /still/ havnt bothered sorting my logging in erc.

and since i dont have my irc logs, i cant paste in prior portions of my rambles.  so this sorta jumps in, disjointedly, part way through.



thinking about my (still meagerly proto-vapour) project again... n the possitioning, the reach of my fingers, and coming to a conclusion which i can now carry around in a soundbite'd philosophy when proceeding throughout the design process.   "make it right, not like".  meaning to stick to what my fingers can do in healthy range, and not stick to similarities past. 

lots of little points of contrast to the kinesis advantage (that i currently use, or indeed for pretty much any keyboard) where the ideal (the "make it right") stands far enough away that it morphs at least twice.  like take the little finger for an example.  my comfortable range of movement with current key size is actually only two rows... but it's expected to traverse 4 rows like the rest... oh, actually the kinesis has a nice enough concession that it's only 4, n not 5 like the rest... except, i can more comfortably accomodate pressing that space with my little fingers than they can the upper two rows.   and i've been excluding the f keys row from this comparrison!
ok, so, that's a comfortable movement range about a third of as is, and still of course all the keys needed to be there, and the ability to hit that many distinquishable key locations, suggest to me the little finger's keys are going to be smaller than the others!   :)

ok, i'm better with pictures than i am with words... so i'll quickly scrawl what i mean, for some illustrative picture-speaks-a-thousand-words: 
example1 as is most commonly familiar.  example2 columnar aligned (like kinesis advantage) rather than by row.  example3 basic simplified thrust of my notion, smaller range for smaller fingers (left hand example only).  exmaple4, taking it further, considering actual reach ranges of fingers.  (not shown in image, thumb cluster & dactyl(ish) curves in the 3rd dimension)

my thoughts continue on from this far, into other further adaptations, like the materials used for keytops to provide distinct tactile feedback (before its pressed), to help show which key it is.

i've already ordered a whole load of the lightest zealios.  and a few other components.   ... before i've actually got any firm plans.   all my "plans" so far are still a dynamically jumbling mix of ideas evolving.  and so i hope they dont prove ill-suited to the task as i envision it... i hope i can find a way to have the keys (and the switches underneath) for my little fingers bunch up close enough together.

anyhoo... that's as far as my thinking (clear enough to readily communicate) goes on this for now.

idk how much of my smaller outter finger ranges notion i'll end up sticking with, but i imagine if i dont, it will continue to irk me, and i'll only need then make another keyboard remedying it.    ... one of those ideas that's kinda carrying a twinge of regret at noticing it, as if living in ignorance of the problem were somehow better.   it's not, of course.  and since there's remedy in sight, i'd be a fool not to seek to implement the idea.
« Last Edit: Thu, 18 August 2016, 19:37:06 by Digit »
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Offline Digit

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Re: Digit's apiritational keyboard notions thread.
« Reply #1 on: Fri, 08 July 2016, 11:50:39 »
[2016-07- 8 17:47:10] <Digit> hrmm.. just thought... i could squeeze a raspberry pi (or some such) in my keyboard, and make it able to be taken on the road, used as a pc on it's own, or plugged into something more powerful.


also, not sure i mentioned i plan to add (at least one) nav nipple
« Last Edit: Fri, 08 July 2016, 12:22:31 by Digit »
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Re: Digit's apiritational keyboard notions thread.
« Reply #2 on: Sun, 10 July 2016, 11:11:57 »
http://ks392457.kimsufi.com/stuff/digitsadvancedkeyboard-theta1-preview1.png



   :p  :))  :-\  :rolleyes:  :eek:  :-[  ;D  ;)  :-*  ;)  :)  :cool:

subsequent tweaks to this will add the sort of finger range scaling (as touched on in first post of this thread), and the curved finger wells, and the staggered finger heights, and the angled thumb pads, sunk cursor keys, inward angled inner edge and f keys, as well as getting to working out some kind of wiring plan ( :eek: ).  i'll likely get around to drawing it up in some cadware or something soon eventually... either that or take adereth's dactyl design source code n start modifying it to have all my additions.

still very unsure of the route i'll take towards getting this designed, planned and made.  :) 
« Last Edit: Sun, 10 July 2016, 11:31:21 by Digit »
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Re: Digit's aspiritational keyboard notions thread.
« Reply #3 on: Sun, 10 July 2016, 20:18:50 »


my keyboard doodling has been revisited multiple times through the day.  the scrawlings currently look like that^, which is kinda pretty at a glance, but still needs lots of work, and reworking.
« Last Edit: Mon, 11 July 2016, 17:20:55 by Digit »
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ZEALIOS CAME TODAY (YESTERDAY ~ since i typed my way past midnight).
« Reply #4 on: Mon, 11 July 2016, 18:28:33 »
so my switches arrived today.  :)

100x 62g zealios.

this helps make it real to me.

as well as gives me some reference as to what's doable.

since custom keycaps were almost expected without question, from the start of this, they wont be the Z* limiting factor.
so it's good to see how snug i can make these for my little fingers**.  fitting them snug together at an angle...  :)  curved wells ftw.

after having a brief poke around with some cardboard tests to get a sense of it, seems i maybe wont get them quite as close as i (think i'd) like them to be, but, that's without keycaps on, and they'd raise, and therefor due to the curve, closen the gap.  cant test with current available keycaps here, as they're all full size of course.   ... and i'm not keen on chopping them to bits.  so that should should be fine really.  and if not... there's still (aprox by visual inspection) about 1/5th the Z depth of non mechanical relative superfluous to shave off from the frontside of the switches, if i do so end up wanting to be fussy enough to "need" to do that to squish them that close together... but i think that might be taking it too far.  good to know though, should i want to push the design that far.

in my eagerness earlier, i did have a little wiggle around with the switches in my kinesis advantage, to see if they could pop out too, so i could try these zeals in there.  ^_^  aight, aight, need desoldering n stuff, ok.  i'll stop trying to just pull it out.  lol.

my plans are still very planless though.   :D 

i dont know if i'm going to be sculpting and carving by hand the case for it, or if i'm going to get more competent in blender, or find some way of doing 3d cad with Free Software in gnu|linux***, or... other.

having the switches here (and having poked three of them into a flap of cardboard i ripped off an old graphics card box), does make me yearn to just get cracking with the physical creation (i still have access to a big old farm garage of toys****), but then, i also want this to be shareable, n not just something i make to scratch my own itch alone... so i'm still torn between that, and getting on with modelling something (3d)printable.

i guestimated last night that by the time this keyboard of mine is done, i might spend as much as a grand (GBP*****) on it.  ... ... that was before i started thinking i might buy my own 3d printer.   :eek:

i could just imagine myself re-tweaking a lot, and over-eagerly getting things printed prematurely.  and as expensive as that might get as i print my way through many spools, it still might be the better route for me than going to shapeways all the time... n then just leave shapeways (or whoever) for when i want something printed in a fancy material.    ... steel keycaps?!  :O  ;D  is diamond printable yet?  ;D  (no, i'm not that rich, i just like the material properties of diamond.)

but i suppose i should really work on getting some printable design/model files first, before i contend with the issue of whether to print or have printed*******, even if i do feel like i just want the physical stuff here only as a tool to stimulate further design evolution, like a mock-up.

my mind is still racing over thoughts about available materials around here, and how i could start cutting bits out, checking how well it fits my hands, and measure after cutting/fitting, so those measurements could be reproduced.  ... this might end up the best way to go...  an initial mock-up made to fit, and then take the measurements of that and input them to ... ... to... whatever software (blender, emacs(clojure etc), *cad, etc) to help reproduce/print/re-adapt/etc.

yeah... methinks that'l be the route i'll set out on tmro (today, after sleep).    a little light material hunting in the morning, and some construction in the afternoon, and measuring and refining in the evening.   *******

blah blah blah aside, suffice to say for all the important info in this update, with the arrival of the switches, "this is now a real project".   :cool:
more than just airy aspirations.  :)

-Digit


* or is that dimension Y in your thinking?   i get cagey around saying vertical, or depth, since either could be easily misconstrued as .... vertical or depth...    erm.   Z as the distance away from me... not the distance fingers press down.

** pinkies, winkies, whatever you call em.   i wasnt suggesting my fingers are smaller than average. ^_^

*** or other freedom respecting OS

**** tools

***** at pre-"brexit" referendum value

****** to print by myself, or to have printed for me.

******* this is a joke.  it will never happen that neatly and devoid of distraction.  ^_^  nice as it'd be though.

if ignorance is bliss, give me agony.
~~~~~~~ let there be hemp ~~~~~~~
spaceships for everyone.  solves all.

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Hemp Epiphany
« Reply #5 on: Tue, 12 July 2016, 10:49:36 »
just before setting out to the garage to rummage around for prototyping materials, i got the notion of searching for hemp 3d printing, and to my joy, hemp filament is a thing!  http://www.3domusa.com/shop/entwined-hemp-filament/

so... that's obviously going to be what my keyboard will be made of.  :)  hemp.   ... i suppose at some point i'll be so fussy as to want the switch housings made of hemp too. ^_^   i'll leave that for a later project.  heh.

for now, back to prototype's local material sourcing & construction.
:)


ps, if you dont know why hemp's so great, you must be new to the internet.  ;j


edit-update:
just thought i'd share this sort of thing, for illustration.  :3
« Last Edit: Fri, 19 August 2016, 18:02:11 by Digit »
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copper construct, genius too much.
« Reply #6 on: Fri, 15 July 2016, 22:45:40 »
had an epiphany earlier shortly after having sketched up a rough of a concept for adjustable key positioning in blender, as i pondered the moveability of the wiring, and hit upon the notion of constructing the adjustment mechanism itself out of copper... and i had to step back and stop myself.  i tried to talk myself out of it "this is too crazy genius for you".  but i came back, adereth's "they can print steel, with magic" in mind, with: "if they can print steel, they can print copper."   i couldnt argue back, realising any extra complexity to the idea, rather than just crude human wiring, could be dealt with in software, in printing... just another component.  fiddlyness, not a problem.

so, it's all still very rudimentary, nothing more of worth at all to show today.


oh... also been thinking more on thumb cluster... thinking of adding a d-pad (or thumbstick), snug right where my thumbs want, at an angle more fitting.

and...

blender... idk why i thought it was hard.  heh.   probably because i was wasting time with an old version, and a tutorial that advised to use same version (and others had praised 2.63 (or whatever) too.)   i seem to just fly effortlessly with this version.   ... idk, maybe i finally learned it through osmosis in my sleep.  ^_^  so hopefully i'll find the energy to put toward blendering up more of my notions.  :)
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Re: Digit's aspiritational keyboard notions thread.
« Reply #7 on: Mon, 18 July 2016, 17:20:00 »
so i hope me posting in here is the right forum section, n it being post after post of mine is not in contravention of the spirit of the terms of service and posting guidelines.  couldnt see anything specific, but it does sit uneasy with me not just editing in the further additions into a single post... but it's typically days, n a fresh info update between.  still, i dont wanna be a post count inflator cheat.

anyway, on with what's new, n what's happening with my increasingly elaborate ideas reaching further n further away from my proven ability.   ^_^

adjustable curvature.    ... such that the keyboard can roll out flat again if you want.   oh boy.   what am i getting myself in for.

that prior notion of the adjustable positioning, using linear rods along 3 axis, when then taken with this new idea of having it with some means of rotating hinges too...  it's getting tricky n fangled.

but it is conceivably doable.

the height of the hinges needs be up near the range of the keytops, or bite points, i'm not quite sure which is better.  because of course if you have it hinged at the base of the switches of the positioning adjustment assembly, then they end up either too spaced out when flat, or crashing into each other when curved...
this has had me considering the sort of metal plate, much like as seen in some laptops, that fit between the keys (edit, or rather, have holes in the sheet for the keys)... but then if that were hinged, and in finger columns...

i'm still a little fuzzy on how to have this connect together just on the basic level still, but wanted to jot this down (beyond my scribbles on the a3 sketchpad i keep under my wacom tablet) to keep track of the chronological progression of the notions.

still just notions.   even if they do look a little like they're moving towards designs n firming up as plans, this added adjustability stuff is definately on the "maybe" pile... if only just for the complexity n uncertainty of this possible over-reach.   ... still, i'm gonna play this through, see how far it goes.  too juicy a notion to dismiss without at least a little further investigating.

maybe next post i'll have some blenderish sharings.   ... a few more tricks to learn, n a few more additions and adjustments to make...




ok, that'll do for now.

(oops, left that unposted since before a migraine struck. *hits post without checking it*)
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Re: Digit's aspiritational keyboard notions thread.
« Reply #8 on: Fri, 12 August 2016, 08:06:15 »
good grief what hellish ailments i've been through.

well...

left my blender progress halted on screen for a while like this...

as mentioned in irc:
[2016-08-12 10:10:07] <Digit> pleasantly no impatience amidst the slow staggered progress on my plans. http://ks392457.kimsufi.com/stuff/digboard-progress-scrot1.png it's been sat like that for a few days now.  ^_^

some playing around, and ...

mmm, mMm, MMM.  i do like this... even though i've drilled this into a culdesac i have to reverse from, right back to the single switch holder, it looks gooood.   and nice insights learned from poking tests around.  wrong, but great.  hehe. 
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spaceships for everyone.  solves all.


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Re: Digit's aspiritational keyboard notions thread.
« Reply #10 on: Fri, 12 August 2016, 12:16:51 »
it is 64 keys each side though.  heh.   ~ if i counted right.

 not sure yet what the other 28 switches will be.

ideas kinda grew more elaborate than expected in the purchase. ^_^

speaking of elaboration of ideas...

before i get to posting the pics of next progressions

that last screenshot, although it was in-progress, incomplete (and in need of reversing)... the near edge, the bottom row of keys (above the sunken cursor keys), they all meet quite close, like my fingers do when they naturally reach there, index actually higher than the little finger, which is much closer to the middle and ring fingers... and then you see the curve up from the little finger, it goes up ~  well, that was the point i realised i needed to reverse when making that, but it needs a tigher curve.   looking at my resting position on the kinesis advantage here, without lifting my heels* if i straighten my fingers out, the range difference between my little finger and ring finger is ~ i'd say.. at least a key and a half.  so, that's that part of the plan there.  not yet got to in that before realising i need to reverse, was.... kinda as depicted in some of the 2d doodles, is the forward staggering (distinct from the depth staggering) of the different finger columns.  this will be a little more subtle than seen on some flat keyboards (i forget names), since the depth staggering and adaptive curves will take care of most of that, but there will still be some.  like, if i look at my knuckles... i imagine the forward staggering will largely follow that curve, since that's where the main hinge will be from.   ... then i will ~or, rather, i aspire to~ have the curves arc out from that point floating above.   :)  n each collumn respecting the curve range of each finger.

someone mentioned in irc about how they werent into making something to best the offerings of the keyboard companies.   ... they dont make keyboards for my hands.  ;D  idgaf about besting their offerings.  i just want it how i want it.  :)

so... anyhoo... i've got my digboard blender file back to



as suspected n mentioned in an earlier post, wider spacing bellow, so keycaps up above meet, n dont bash into each other...   tho, i should remember, not to get too focussed on familiar keykaps sizing when thinking about possitioning, given my aspirational doodles earlier with the very custom keycap shapes.  not to mention this little finger issue.   ... less keys, or smaller keys.   this is the question.     and do i really want/need modifiers/tab/etc out there for the little finger to deal with?  that's just habit... right?    if i get the thumb block's right, all combos of modifiers should be easily doable, n little finger gets a rest.   ... we shall see.


likely not for this project, but jotting it down here before i forget
a shorter distance clicky switch, with multiple stage clicks, pass the first a milimeter from top, n it's like normal, hit the second click, say, 2.4mm down from top, and it hits the repeater... hit a third at *shrug* 4.2mm, and... idk... something else happens... n bottoming out a mm bellow that... idk... just a notion that came to me while writing this out n uploading that scrot.   ^_^


* that's right terminology, right? "heel"?   the bulgy bit between my palms and my wrists. ^_^

ok, i better take it easy.  i'm sposa be looking after my health, not aspiring to geekages beyond my grasp.  heh.  not easy when theres an energy masquerading as "the zone".   ... clearly it's not the zone, or i wouldnt be back to pre-curvetest backup saves.  ^_^
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Re: Digit's aspiritational keyboard notions thread.
« Reply #11 on: Sat, 13 August 2016, 09:48:18 »
okies, brought it back up to this stage, with apropriate spacing ... or... well, more appropriate spacing, heh.  something better to work with.   didnt measure it or anything.  that was just the handy next increment holding down ctrl n manually* shunting over.  they'll all**** be moved around yet anyway.  this is just a next neat starting point.   thought i'd share another scrot of it at this stage, before it loses that uniform look.  ~  and because i'm quite drained (stressed by trolls n overdoing it), so could do with leaving it to sit as-is again for some days while i**** recuperate again.



still quite unsure just how the thumb keys will be curved & arranged.  ... except to say, it will be made right, not alike.
oh, and right before hitting Post, realised the top left 4 f-keys, in the basic layout working from, that was just 1 key.

ok, i better go rest before i think of something else to say or do.

* rather than punching numbers**

** from measurements***

*** not made yet.

**** or at least most, presumably

***** my adrenal glands n so on.  (been fighting off a virus too)
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Re: Digit's aspiritational keyboard notions thread.
« Reply #12 on: Mon, 15 August 2016, 07:43:51 »
jotting down this idea before it's lost in a haze of forgetfulness...

scroll-wheels on innermost sides of thumb arrays, between thumb keys and index finger keys.
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Re: Digit's aspiritational keyboard notions thread.
« Reply #13 on: Wed, 17 August 2016, 07:03:02 »
okie-pokes.

before i continue refining the curves and the finger reach ranges, and making a start on positioning and curving the thumb array, i'll take a few scrots to depict the progress at this stage.

as chirped in irc last night:
[2016-08-16 22:20:23] <Digit> mmm.   been making progress with my blender aspirational keyboard design.  lot of kludge n fudge to it, but doesnt look too janky even in this interim state.  :)
[2016-08-16 22:55:26] <Digit> fkeys.  yep, my design (so far) has dedi* f row(s).  not sure whether to leave them straight, or have them curve in fitting with the rest of the ergonomics.

* dedicated (as in, no modifier needed to hit the function keys.  they have their own buttons).

and that's as much as i have gotten up to still, despite several visits to the file since, n uncertain how to proceed.   ... tho i know the braincogs are mulling over in the background what to do with the thumb cluster.  ... even been thinking of a n upflick button or two (or three).   clearly much ergonomic work is needed for that many keys on the thumb.  twouldnt work so comfortably without a lot of arm moving, as is.

the atreus (sp?) has the right idea with the arc, aware as it seems to be, of where our thumb hinges.  but a mere 5 buttons (iirc), seems a little lacking... and i know my thumb has more mobility and joints and range than just that.  ... even if i do end up having just a second row up of lesser pressed buttons just out of comfortable reach.

as well as making a start on sorting out the thumb array, the other prominent issue of concern from as-is to as-should-ideally-be is the little finger's range... getting those outter two curves to fit what the finger can do... that's still needed to be made a start on.   ... and indeed, none of the curve ranges have been properly attended to.  this is just an early interim stage.  i look at the comfortable outstretch range of my fingers, and the shape of curve they make... that's very close to what it should end up like along the top row.   and similarly for the nearside clenched row.

aaaaanyways.   waffle aside, here's some progress scrots.
(multiple, so to easier see the curve n staggering as is, so far)

so i added some colour too, just for easier more immediate visual grok of the situation.

notice the upper two little finger keys, i coloured darker for ~   ... well, to remind me that they're way outta range. heh.   similarly on the index finger's third column, the stretch column.  tho they're fine, i ascertain from my use of the kinesis advantage, n able to stretch comfortably to hit those blank spaces next to t, g & b.   tho they'll likely be moved down a tad... once i get the thumb array in position (or maybe left much in positions as they are, since i'd sorta envisioned from the start(ish) that top one as a rare-use stretch key).

ok, one more from the back/underside





also... (in part since i havnt put the nav-wart in yet)  been thinking where the mouse buttons would be... after all, cant have a nav-wart to push the cursor around, without the buttons... and so, also thinking, where might i slip in a fancy scroll wheel, with side scroll, and middle mouse button too.    ... as well as much-loved/"necessary" back/forward buttons seen on the side of many a mouse, and even cursor movement sensitivity up n down increments...
...  though i'm unsure i'd really have all that... would i really want to give up on a mouse alltogether?   i remember the finger strain of over-reliance on my x60t's nav-wart. 
~ could end up with nav-wart on the left (between r,t,f&g*) and bi-directional scroll-wheel on the right (between y,u,h&j**).
been thinking this is one of those things i'd best get fathomed n decided early, rather than try to do once it's made with rebinding keys.... since i'd surely want them to be low-travel clicky, rather than have the feel of regular keys.   ... idk... maybe that's just one of those remnants from habituation, but does seem to have a logic to it, given the usecases for mouse clicks.

*(eventually someone will call that real-time ***.  oops, i just did.   r,t,f&g.  lol)
**(and uhh... why you hand J`...  ;D)



part of me thinks i still might never accomplish this.   :-X   mere aspiration.   heh.   :rolleyes:

this is all still the "easy" stuff that i have some experience with.    effectively just doodling.

the real challenges for me will come when i start trying to design the "wiring" (not intending to use wires, where possible), er, circuitry.    and construction etc.

but it is something i aspire to.   :)  ^-^
if ignorance is bliss, give me agony.
~~~~~~~ let there be hemp ~~~~~~~
spaceships for everyone.  solves all.

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Re: Digit's aspiritational keyboard notions thread.
« Reply #14 on: Wed, 17 August 2016, 08:24:19 »
lol @ censorship in that last post.

"***" might be a nasty term in usa (depending on how it's used), but this side of the pond it's fairly harmless.  well... the word anyway.  not the item the word refers to (cigarette).

~
ps,

if i ever get this made, methinks i'll call it the ergo dak.   ergonomic digit's aspirational keyboard, and a play on ergo dox.   :)

pps,

methinks mouse scroll could have a happy home near enough in that gap above the right cursor, to the right of the up cursor, on a raised platform on the side, comfortably accessible to the thumb   ..... :O  might even then have left click up above that, and right click beneath, next to the rest of the thumb array.   this would be much smaller than any left & right mouse buttons i've seen before (not counting the nib on my wacom stylus, cos that's not a mouse), but i think considering the dexterity of my thumb, n the positioning... little buttons like angled raised flaps, either side of a tiny scroll wheel... i like this idea.    remains to be seen if it's doable, if genuinely feasible for thumb, for spacing, for parts construction, for wiring up, etc.   cool idea though.   i might doodle some for that later.

  Last Edit: Wed, 17 August 2016, 08:52:35 by Digit


oh my.  while continuing my 3d-ification doodling, i hit upon the notion of an adjustable thumb array... with almost as much freedom in the limb's range as fully split keyboards do, but fixable in position hard (until wanted adjusted again).     ... idk how much that's just an idea chasing after that lower cursor keys thing... having meddled around making rudimentary thumb mouse buttons n wheel in place as a starting point to have the main thumb arc, arc from.  ~  might just edit this post with a scrot of that soon... or i might fall asleep.  :3  got out of bed n switched light on again to poke at it more.  XD  should sleep.
« Last Edit: Wed, 17 August 2016, 20:48:21 by Digit »
if ignorance is bliss, give me agony.
~~~~~~~ let there be hemp ~~~~~~~
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Offline Digit

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Re: Digit's aspiratational keyboard notions thread.
« Reply #15 on: Sat, 20 August 2016, 07:47:56 »
bouncing off walls happy about:

Estimated delivery:  Tue, 23 Aug.–Wed, 24 Aug.

for an ex-demo 2016 prusa i3 3d printer, fully assembled.

 :eek:

more purchases to light a fire under my ass with this project, to make it real to me, beyond mere whims n notions.



... i'll skip the scrot of the 3d progress, since it's in far to janky an interim process to be worth sharing... but there be things starting to take some kind of shape on the thumb array.

  Last Edit: Sat, 20 August 2016, 07:51:25 by Digit


i expect to learn a lot from https://deskthority.net/workshop-f7/katy-keyboard-or-k80cs-key80-contoured-split-t8524.html a lot of v similar goals n insights etc.   ~ i knew i couldnt have been the first.
« Last Edit: Wed, 24 August 2016, 16:36:18 by Digit »
if ignorance is bliss, give me agony.
~~~~~~~ let there be hemp ~~~~~~~
spaceships for everyone.  solves all.

Offline Digit

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great wall of thumba
« Reply #16 on: Tue, 30 August 2016, 23:35:50 »
https://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2016/08/keystroke_recog.html
so i wanna have sorta faraday-cage tents over the top now... ... dont need to be that paranoid all the time... but it'd be a really nice feature to have.

i'm thinking likely removable, maybe even two layer, one just the faraday-cage mesh, and one to block visual too, n let the user (uh... me) decide whether/which is more important, visual keystroke capture, or wireless signal distortion capture, or just meh it.

also...

might as well make an update on the (still janky) thumb progress...

a lot of positioning for the curve range still to happen (as with the little finger too... might ditch those top two, let them be something on the thumb, or move everything along from ditching them, or, put them out to the outside, maybe some side/up click, much like the function key rows will be, once that curve gets tightened in and sorted.  the reach of my little fingers, as on my kinesis, they struggle (fail) to comfortably even reach q and p (let alone 1 and 0), such that my ring fingers more naturally reach off to the side, contrary to the notion of having these columns.  ... so, little fingers... less up, and, surprisingly, more side... can handle one extra button out to the side (esp if i make the tab/shift/etc column narrower ~ as narrow as the rest), beyond existing... but really only one, comfortably.... mmmmmaaaaybe two, if i treat the comfort spot as where the seam between them should go... or, more radically, a side AND an up click... i'd likely be looking to something as light as cherry mx reds (or lighter).  that's enough side-story (fortuous unintended pun) yacking about the little finger notions... this paragraph is supposed to be about the thumb array) like it will likely get curvier... respecting more of the full range arc of my thumbs, such that the side button at the end of the arc really is full stretch... i'm thinking maybe some heavier switch for it... not too sure yet, but something that really has a sense of "i really mean it"-boomf.  the uppermost arc keys, i'm pondering being even more bold with their upwardness, and certainly strongly leaning-to/considering/decided on custom keycaps that have an upwardish slant (or even a round convex), so they sorta become up-flick keys too (kinda akin to the notion of the upper super-side key for the little finger, if i do go that route ~~ but likely harder (a bit)).   ~  now the fun stuff about the thumb array~ oh, before i get to the fun stuff... the next row down in the arc, they're more the standardish that have been seen on many a design, more the common reach, but maybe a little further up/out, so it's not the thumb knuckle range, more the thumbpad range, because bellow it, is the fun stuff...  those oddly angled ones... they're to be struck by the thumbpad too ... cos see... our thumbs are quite dextrous (wait, isnt that a sugar?), they can bend really well at that outmost joint... and angle well for reaching in to hit buttons at angles sorta inward to the palm and wrist and down-ish/back-ish.  but hey, that's still leaving that nice solid bap-bap-bap club that is the joint itself to strike more keys... i know... that's getting tight, right... wanting to be able to strike keys from pulling that joint in n down to strike one row, and then to have the joint-area itself be used to strike a subsequent row... it'll be doable.  tight, but doable.   a fangled nightmare to get right... but doable... i insist it's doable!  XD  but wait, i'm not done!   not yet added to my model, there will be space bellow for a big button for the next joint down, mmmmmaybe two (/ one for the next next joint down too, right at the heal of the thumb, joining the wrist)  but lets not get carried away there... we're losing a lot of dexterity in that area... and dont want to over-complicate.  heeh!   so... i'm not done with the fun stuff yet.  :)   there be a whole extra level of niceness going on in that snug, just under the index knuckle.  mouse buttons!  (ok, i know, they're just the same red switches used as for the rest of the thumb array ~  i did mention this was too early to share scrots of this).  and a thumbwheel, er, mousewheel, er, keyboard wheel.    whatever it's called (scrollwheel!), it'll need to be quite small, fairly fiddly, considering the space it needs to fit in, and the index finger will want to hit that lowermost button just under it.  back n forward buttons (i think they're mouse 8 and 9... or was it 10 and 11) sitting pretty next to the right mouse button.   oh, and also, hope to get the middle mouse button workable on the scroll wheel too.

oh, and yes... got the rudimentary marker positioned for the nav-nip too. 

sorry, i've been waffling on so much, i forget... did i include the image yet?   oh, nope.  lol.   here:


already way more than i can chew. lol.   but try to chew, i shall.    (because i have spaceships to make).
if ignorance is bliss, give me agony.
~~~~~~~ let there be hemp ~~~~~~~
spaceships for everyone.  solves all.

Offline Digit

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Re: Digit's aspiratational keyboard notions thread.
« Reply #17 on: Fri, 02 September 2016, 00:11:44 »
3d printer arrived.  at least i presume that's what's in that big box.  XD   been too poorly to deal with it.   :'(


-----------edit-------------

ok, i'll just edit this in here.

the day after, n feeling better, but then i go and exacerbate another ailment, once again inhibiting my ability to even consider dealing with that big box.   as an old friend of mine used to say "dag nabit!"

~

aaaanyways... i came here to make note of some keycap notions i blethered about in irc to keep track of these notions.

keycaps!   materials!
(i'll make this easy on myself n just paste my bits whole, n snippets of other peeps (without crediting em, cos idk if they wanna be outted like that. lol))
[2016-09- 2 21:59:57] * Digit wonders about materials for keycaps... even considering pure silver
[2016-09- 2 22:00:34] * Digit would consider gold... but... money.

But why?

[2016-09- 2 22:03:23] <Digit> feel.  health.  fear of endocrine disrupting chemicals leached from plastics.

[2016-09- 2 22:04:28] <Digit> wood's another consideration... but then i'd end up wondering about treatment... leave it bare, or go with some kind of oil... the friendliest oils i know wouldnt stay friendly for long.  ,,, maybe coconut. lol.   walnut seems like a winner for wooden caps.

"cork"

[2016-09- 2 22:04:54] <Digit> mmm.  nice feel.
[2016-09- 2 22:05:08] <Digit> friction's another consideration though

~memory foam was also discussed

[2016-09- 2 22:08:01] <Digit> idk how much control/variety/choice there is over how long it retains its memory, like the rebound of the foam.

~conversation rolled on with other divergent aspirational ideas of others involved in exploring the notions, n then...

[2016-09- 2 22:11:13] <Digit> *sees the answer laying on his desk*  QUARTZ CRYSTALS!  :O  :D  that could be my keycaps... different types of stone.

"milling stone is fiddly.  takes a fair bit of hand-finishing to get tehm nice. :/"

[2016-09- 2 22:14:14] * Digit thinks orange jade keycaps would be nice... with added bonus that telling people, they'd think you are saying you have orangeade keycaps

so... to summarise the materials in consideration (even if tentatively ruled out for one reason or another):

precious metals with low reactivity and high health affirming properties
-  silver
-  gold

woods
- walnut
- fig
- ginkgo
- other...?
& wood finishes
-- none but buffing
-- oils
--- coconut
--- neem (?)
--- ghee (??)
--- ... needs more investigation

stones
- clear quartz *
- orange jade **
- amethyst ***
- a big ol mix of all sorts ****
- utterly non-fancy stones...
-- ones found on walks (heh, walks, that'd be nice to be able to do).
-- ones from around my house

hemp
- hemp plastics
- hemp fiber composits
- other hemp materials

these lists will change with time.  but so far, it's the idea of quartz n other crystals that i find most appealing.   ... cos i'm a big hippie like that.  ^_^

* clear quartz
would, if clear enough, let me see the zealios beneath!  ... oh that's a very attractive notion.

** i like the look, and i like the properties hippies claim it has.  doesnt absorb negativity n such.    ... ~ yellow jade likewise has some nice properties one might want on a keyboard, comunicating with others, making decisive moves, being mellow and joyous n lots of other guff that gets hippies buying them for healing their chakras etc.  :)

*** besides the good fortune coincidence that they're akin to zealios colourwise (whitish-clear with purple), they're associated with the top chakra, higher thinking spirituality n connectedness with the cosmos and some such stuff.  ^_^

**** could read up on all crystals n their properties(*****)

***** even without the hippie guff, i do encourage peeps to check out the properties of crystals.  they are suuuuuuper cool.  even the driest conventionalist science-wannabe mundane dogmatic unimaginative thinkers would have to concede crystals are quite special.  ^_^



ok.  hopefully next time i add something to this thread, it will be some genuine progress on refining-towards-finalising my 3d design, and getting it printed.  or at least taking the 3d printer out of the box to make sure it works.  :)

good geeking.
« Last Edit: Fri, 02 September 2016, 17:06:45 by Digit »
if ignorance is bliss, give me agony.
~~~~~~~ let there be hemp ~~~~~~~
spaceships for everyone.  solves all.

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Re: Digit's aspiratational keyboard notions thread.
« Reply #18 on: Fri, 02 December 2016, 15:37:36 »
had an excited moment with two ideas just a moment ago:

1.   have this be a 4 part device.  so there's a tight 60 key extractable portion... or maybe more than 60 with my elaborate thumb array, heh.   

2.   another idea, have the halves able to work like a control pad... a few adjustments n that could work. 

 .. ... ok, maybe not as solid an idea as the transformer extractableness two parts per half idea thing.  heh. 


posting them here just as a remind for myself.  the 60 extractable thing came to mind when looking at my kinesis advantage thinking something roughly akin to "yes, the non-typing keys dont really need to be consistent switches for typing, they could be rubber nonsense, or something else."

a friend mentioned which while i am not that keen of even getting back on the fence regarding the side wiggling of fingers with regards to ergonomics and biological physical optimals, but for switches in suitable directions for fingers, it could be worthy... especially since i keep having more ideas about the extent of these extra buttoned mitten toboggan half barrel notions.    idk if i need to just simplify this tobogan idea, scrap it, go with as is, strip as is down to a minimal core, embrace the madness to go for full fury furry key mittens, or what.  the idea's are branchy, n i really should collapse down into getting just one made.

... and i should tidy my room to make way for my 3d printer.    i'll be miffed with procrastinating myself if i post in here again without having it up n running.
« Last Edit: Fri, 02 December 2016, 16:37:07 by Digit »
if ignorance is bliss, give me agony.
~~~~~~~ let there be hemp ~~~~~~~
spaceships for everyone.  solves all.

Offline digi

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Re: Digit's aspiratational keyboard notions thread.
« Reply #19 on: Fri, 02 December 2016, 15:52:38 »
I like your name.. ;)

Offline Digit

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Re: Digit's aspiratational keyboard notions thread.
« Reply #20 on: Fri, 02 December 2016, 16:40:09 »
thnx.


... 
DOH!

i still havnt cleared a space for my 3d printer, n here i am, replying to this thread again.

~ miffed ~

XD
if ignorance is bliss, give me agony.
~~~~~~~ let there be hemp ~~~~~~~
spaceships for everyone.  solves all.

Offline Digit

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Re: Digit's aspiratational keyboard notions thread.
« Reply #21 on: Sun, 02 July 2017, 09:20:15 »
been an overwhelming half a year :'( :confused: :mad: :(, so not letting myself be miffed at my lack of progress on getting my 3d printer on the go yet.

just came here to remind myself later,


 bottom arc row of thumb keys, extend key caps like baseball caps, for reach when using cursor keys.


reminding, since i'm not making keycaps in my design process yet.
(and not going to mention considerations of moving/adding other keys ~ got enough damn keys on this keyboard already!   :)) :cool:)
if ignorance is bliss, give me agony.
~~~~~~~ let there be hemp ~~~~~~~
spaceships for everyone.  solves all.