Author Topic: NIB Chicony KB-5191 $15  (Read 17347 times)

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Offline ch_123

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NIB Chicony KB-5191 $15
« on: Sun, 03 January 2010, 08:20:54 »

Offline timw4mail

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« Reply #1 on: Sun, 03 January 2010, 11:48:12 »
Are these the Cherry copies model, or the Monterrey switch?
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Offline ch_123

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« Reply #2 on: Sun, 03 January 2010, 11:57:33 »
Can't remember. In fact, one of the Chiconys can have the Montereys OR the Cherry clones depending on which one you get.

Such are the joys of 80/90s Japanese keyboards.

Offline timw4mail

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« Reply #3 on: Sun, 03 January 2010, 12:08:26 »
I've already got the Cherry copies...so I'm only concerned with finding one with Monterrey's.

The auction shows it's the Cherry copies.
« Last Edit: Sun, 03 January 2010, 12:10:32 by timw4mail »
Buckling Springs IBM Model F AT, New Model F 77, Unicomp New Model M
Clicky iOne Scorpius M10, OCN-branded Ducky DK-9008-C, Blackmore Nocturna, Redragon Kumara K552-1, Qtronix Scorpius Keypad, Chicony KB-5181(Monterey)
Tactile Apple AEKII (Cream damped ALPS), Filco FKBN91M/JB (Japanese Tenkeyless), Cherry G84-5200, Cherry G84-4100LPAUS, Datalux Spacesaver(Cherry ML), Redragon Devarajas K556 RGB, Newmen GM711, Poker II (Cherry MX Clear), Logitech G910 Orion Spark, Logitech K840
Linear Lenovo Y (Gateron Red), Aluminum kiosk keyboard (Cherry MX Black)

Offline spolia optima

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« Reply #4 on: Sun, 03 January 2010, 15:06:43 »
http://geekhack.org/showthread.php?t=8316

Yeah, they're white copies. I haven't heard anything too flattering about these switches, but I got one cause, well, gotta catch 'em all!
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Offline ch_123

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« Reply #5 on: Sun, 03 January 2010, 15:31:17 »
I realized that I confused the fake Cherrys with the round SMK switches. The head**** continues...

Offline timw4mail

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« Reply #6 on: Sun, 03 January 2010, 15:33:46 »
Quote from: ch_123;147597
I realized that I confused the fake Cherrys with the round SMK switches. The head**** continues...

I think the round SMKs are better. But the fake Cherries at least seem to be better than black ALPS.
Buckling Springs IBM Model F AT, New Model F 77, Unicomp New Model M
Clicky iOne Scorpius M10, OCN-branded Ducky DK-9008-C, Blackmore Nocturna, Redragon Kumara K552-1, Qtronix Scorpius Keypad, Chicony KB-5181(Monterey)
Tactile Apple AEKII (Cream damped ALPS), Filco FKBN91M/JB (Japanese Tenkeyless), Cherry G84-5200, Cherry G84-4100LPAUS, Datalux Spacesaver(Cherry ML), Redragon Devarajas K556 RGB, Newmen GM711, Poker II (Cherry MX Clear), Logitech G910 Orion Spark, Logitech K840
Linear Lenovo Y (Gateron Red), Aluminum kiosk keyboard (Cherry MX Black)

Offline ch_123

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« Reply #7 on: Sun, 03 January 2010, 15:39:02 »
Sometimes I think rubber domes would be better than black Alps...

I wonder if the SMKs are electrically compatible with the Cherrys... It would be interesting to make a Filco out of them.

Offline timw4mail

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« Reply #8 on: Sun, 03 January 2010, 15:55:54 »
Quote from: ch_123;147602
Sometimes I think rubber domes would be better than black Alps...

I wonder if the SMKs are electrically compatible with the Cherrys... It would be interesting to make a Filco out of them.

I'm not sure, but they are keycap compatible.
Buckling Springs IBM Model F AT, New Model F 77, Unicomp New Model M
Clicky iOne Scorpius M10, OCN-branded Ducky DK-9008-C, Blackmore Nocturna, Redragon Kumara K552-1, Qtronix Scorpius Keypad, Chicony KB-5181(Monterey)
Tactile Apple AEKII (Cream damped ALPS), Filco FKBN91M/JB (Japanese Tenkeyless), Cherry G84-5200, Cherry G84-4100LPAUS, Datalux Spacesaver(Cherry ML), Redragon Devarajas K556 RGB, Newmen GM711, Poker II (Cherry MX Clear), Logitech G910 Orion Spark, Logitech K840
Linear Lenovo Y (Gateron Red), Aluminum kiosk keyboard (Cherry MX Black)

Offline Mercen_505

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« Reply #9 on: Sun, 03 January 2010, 16:13:24 »
So... as I understand it, if these have 'fake cherries' or whatever switches they have, are they clicky as well as tactile?

Offline J888www

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« Reply #10 on: Sun, 03 January 2010, 16:51:30 »
Often outspoken, please forgive any cause for offense.
Thank you all in GH for reading.

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Offline timw4mail

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« Reply #11 on: Sun, 03 January 2010, 18:43:44 »
Quote from: Mercen_505;147616
So... as I understand it, if these have 'fake cherries' or whatever switches they have, are they clicky as well as tactile?

Yes.
Buckling Springs IBM Model F AT, New Model F 77, Unicomp New Model M
Clicky iOne Scorpius M10, OCN-branded Ducky DK-9008-C, Blackmore Nocturna, Redragon Kumara K552-1, Qtronix Scorpius Keypad, Chicony KB-5181(Monterey)
Tactile Apple AEKII (Cream damped ALPS), Filco FKBN91M/JB (Japanese Tenkeyless), Cherry G84-5200, Cherry G84-4100LPAUS, Datalux Spacesaver(Cherry ML), Redragon Devarajas K556 RGB, Newmen GM711, Poker II (Cherry MX Clear), Logitech G910 Orion Spark, Logitech K840
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Offline Hak Foo

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« Reply #12 on: Sun, 03 January 2010, 19:42:43 »
Anyone know about the keys?  If double-shot, they'd make nice swap fodder.
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Offline timw4mail

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« Reply #13 on: Sun, 03 January 2010, 19:43:28 »
Quote from: Hak Foo;147684
Anyone know about the keys?  If double-shot, they'd make nice swap fodder.

They aren't double-shot, but they are coated pad-printed.
Buckling Springs IBM Model F AT, New Model F 77, Unicomp New Model M
Clicky iOne Scorpius M10, OCN-branded Ducky DK-9008-C, Blackmore Nocturna, Redragon Kumara K552-1, Qtronix Scorpius Keypad, Chicony KB-5181(Monterey)
Tactile Apple AEKII (Cream damped ALPS), Filco FKBN91M/JB (Japanese Tenkeyless), Cherry G84-5200, Cherry G84-4100LPAUS, Datalux Spacesaver(Cherry ML), Redragon Devarajas K556 RGB, Newmen GM711, Poker II (Cherry MX Clear), Logitech G910 Orion Spark, Logitech K840
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Offline Hak Foo

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« Reply #14 on: Sun, 03 January 2010, 19:50:30 »
Bleah.  I'll keep looking for a black G80 of some type for a swap.
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Offline microsoft windows

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« Reply #15 on: Mon, 04 January 2010, 06:48:28 »
I've got a red double-shot Esc key that was made in Taiwan.
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Offline Mercen_505

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« Reply #16 on: Mon, 04 January 2010, 18:25:29 »
Well, for the price it seemed worth snagging, so in a few days I'll see just how good/bad/meh this board is. I don't have any Cherry MX boards or complicated white Alps yet, so this will have to do for a little bit.

player.kbd_total++;

Offline timw4mail

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« Reply #17 on: Mon, 04 January 2010, 19:13:27 »
Quote from: Mercen_505;147986
Well, for the price it seemed worth snagging, so in a few days I'll see just how good/bad/meh this board is. I don't have any Cherry MX boards or complicated white Alps yet, so this will have to do for a little bit.

player.kbd_total++;

It's fake MX, but it's pleasant enough to type on. Just a bit stiffer than the MX blues.
Buckling Springs IBM Model F AT, New Model F 77, Unicomp New Model M
Clicky iOne Scorpius M10, OCN-branded Ducky DK-9008-C, Blackmore Nocturna, Redragon Kumara K552-1, Qtronix Scorpius Keypad, Chicony KB-5181(Monterey)
Tactile Apple AEKII (Cream damped ALPS), Filco FKBN91M/JB (Japanese Tenkeyless), Cherry G84-5200, Cherry G84-4100LPAUS, Datalux Spacesaver(Cherry ML), Redragon Devarajas K556 RGB, Newmen GM711, Poker II (Cherry MX Clear), Logitech G910 Orion Spark, Logitech K840
Linear Lenovo Y (Gateron Red), Aluminum kiosk keyboard (Cherry MX Black)

Offline J888www

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« Reply #18 on: Tue, 05 January 2010, 05:43:49 »
Quote from: timw4mail;147542
so I'm only concerned with finding one with Monterrey's.


Cheap Monterey Switches but have to be quick, only 5 hrs to go, but seller keeps relisting these one at a time.
Whoever won the above New Chicony KB-5181 (Monterey Sliders) will be a happy bunny, my only regret is that I posted it here and not got another.
« Last Edit: Thu, 07 January 2010, 08:05:00 by J888www »
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Offline spolia optima

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« Reply #19 on: Fri, 08 January 2010, 03:40:54 »
Got this keyboard in the mail today. First, my initial impressions: This keyboard is cheap. Cheap, cheap, cheap. The cherry clones seem to be plagued with a naggingly inconsistent feel. When slowly depressing each key to actuation, I notice a large disparity between the force curves from key to key. Some of them are a bit lighter, with a short, smooth tactile bump. Other keys fight back a bit more, and it's pretty noticable. Hopefully, this is due to the keyboard sitting in a box for 19 years and not a design feature.

When I remove the outer case, the first thing I notice is the PCB: It reminds me of a stale saltine cracker. It's thin and dry, and is composed of mostly wheat flour and salt. It's so thin and bendy that it actually aids in dampening each keystroke. More on that later. The PCB construction is so cheap that It bends to almost a half-circle with nothing but gravity. I could be wrong about it being brittle, though. It might be discovered that the 5191 PCB has no proportional elastic limit. It might actually be possible to bend this keyboard into any number of ergonomic positions. Unfortunately, until I know that, I'll begrudgingly accept the idea that it will break simply by breathing on it. Oh, and the fake cherry switches are barely mounted on the PCB! It's really a sight to behold. However, It's an exhausting process trying to remove keycaps without seeing the switch shift around, coming ever so close to ripping away from the PCB. Other than that, the construction is pretty good. I really like the profile-view, the design of the case, and the "On Line" power light, which is cool only because it's useless 99.9% of the time.

Now, for just a second, I'm going to judge this keyboard solely on the typing experience: It's phenomenal. The cheapness of the PCB, combined with the "sandwich" construction add to the springy feel of the keyboard as a whole. In essence, the keyboard acts like a leaf spring. It really, really does. The force of each keystroke radiates from your fingers, down in the PCB, and throughout the length and breadth of the entire machine. Truth be told, it's almost as if this cheap little man-made machine succeeds in imbuing organic qualities. I think of it less like a keyboard and more like an avacado, a palm tree, or a deep-sea trench. Typing is pleasant, especially when you really get kicking at 40wpm+. it's not awkward or fake-feeling. The force curve is just about right. It's smooth, the resistance builds up very evenly until you hit the top of the curve, then it clicks and the force drops slightly before shooting back up again. By time time you near the bottom, the force peaks and it pushes your finger back up. It's REALLY easy to avoid bottoming out on this keyboard, almost effortless.

Sound-wise, I like it more than a blue cherry g80 and less than a buckling spring. Like the BS, these Clones have 2 distinct clicks: a high-pitched, but muffled click on the downstroke and a lower, softer click on the up. it's almost identical to the "tick, tock" that comes from an old metronome or wall clock. Once again, very familiar and pleasant.

These are just my initial impressions, and they may change after a few weeks on this thing. I'm a pretty cynical guy, and it's not often that i'm impressed by anything for any reason. It might just be due the alcohol in my liver, the hydrogen in my veins, or the radium in my wrist watch- but i've got a good feeling about this keyboard. a nice, warm feeling. YMMV.
« Last Edit: Fri, 08 January 2010, 06:16:14 by spolia optima »
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Offline ricercar

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« Reply #20 on: Fri, 08 January 2010, 04:24:12 »
What a phenomenal review. I want to type on that board, feel its experience.
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Offline spolia optima

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« Reply #21 on: Fri, 08 January 2010, 06:58:12 »
Quote from: ricercar;149078
What a phenomenal review. I want to type on that board, feel its experience.

tyvm.

At the risk of sounding hyperbolic, the Chicony KB-5191 is better than 800 billion dollars and a lifetime of no-strings sex with natalie portman and the young zelda fitzgerald on your own private jet.

Then again, it's all subjective.
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Offline ch_123

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« Reply #22 on: Fri, 08 January 2010, 07:26:46 »
Quote from: spolia optima;149091
At the risk of sounding hyperbolic, the Chicony KB-5191 is better than 800 billion dollars and a lifetime of no-strings sex with natalie portman and the young zelda fitzgerald on your own private jet.


The keyboard has Beam Springs?

Offline timw4mail

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« Reply #23 on: Fri, 08 January 2010, 07:28:50 »
Quote from: ch_123;149101
The keyboard has Beam Springs?

No, it's a keyboard that has a cheap case with cheap knock-off switches that is surprisingly nice to type on.
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Offline itlnstln

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« Reply #24 on: Fri, 08 January 2010, 07:47:55 »
Quote from: spolia optima;149091
tyvm.
 
At the risk of sounding hyperbolic, the Chicony KB-5191 is better than 800 billion dollars and a lifetime of no-strings sex with natalie portman and the young zelda fitzgerald on your own private jet.
 
Then again, it's all subjective.

Son, your priorities are all f*cked up.


Offline spolia optima

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« Reply #25 on: Fri, 08 January 2010, 08:10:31 »
Quote from: itlnstln;149115
Son, your priorities are all f*cked up.


well it's not really my choice. see, my parents were like, really mean to me. This is how I cope.
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Offline Mental Hobbit

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« Reply #26 on: Fri, 08 January 2010, 09:49:49 »
Why would she ever go out again once she got a Chicony?
Typing on blues.

Offline itlnstln

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« Reply #27 on: Fri, 08 January 2010, 09:52:48 »
Quote from: Mental Hobbit;149156
Why would she ever go out again once she got a Chicony?

Because she hadn't met me, yet.
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
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Offline Mental Hobbit

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« Reply #28 on: Fri, 08 January 2010, 10:55:00 »
Got a Chicony too today btw. It's a 5182 though. Also it doesn't exactly look new. And it was only 2€. So I guess I can't die in peace just yet.

Feels surprisingly good though. Something alpsy with blue stems. Don't dare calling them blue ALPS yet, as i'm a total newbie to alpsology.
Typing on blues.

Offline J888www

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« Reply #29 on: Fri, 08 January 2010, 11:11:45 »
Quote from: Mental Hobbit;149179
Got a Chicony too today btw. It's a 5182 though. Also it doesn't exactly look new. And it was only 2€. So I guess I can't die in peace just yet.

Feels surprisingly good though. Something alpsy with blue stems. Don't dare calling them blue ALPS yet, as i'm a total newbie to alpsology.



They should be the UK version of the KB-5181 with blue Monterey Switches.
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Offline spolia optima

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« Reply #30 on: Fri, 08 January 2010, 23:00:32 »
despite the cutcorners construction and shoddy materials used, this is one of the most attractive keyboards i have, from the outside at least.

I really like the "separator bars" between the sets of function keys, and how they create a beveled edge around the keys. It's very modernist. I think it (keep in mind that i'm only talking about he top half of the case) would look perfectly at home on a brand new keyboard.
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Offline Mercen_505

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« Reply #31 on: Tue, 12 January 2010, 17:59:05 »
I finally received mine today. I suppose the guy decided to send it out via the slowest possible method while also waiting a week. Truly amazing how long it took to get here!

Just parroting what others have said; it's remarkably flimsy, although you hardly notice when it's sitting on a firm surface... aside from the occasional flex of the board as you're hammering out some posts ;)  It has a distinctly "cheap" feel that is in stark contrast to the steel+plastic behemoths I'm usually piloting. Although... there's something really 'light' and airy about the keyswitches that makes it seriously fun to type on. My only significant complaint lies in the L-shaped keyboard that causes me to miss ~50% of my backspace throws. As long as I don't screw up, it's a neat keyboard to type on.

I was hoping to keep this in the closet in perfect condition, box and all, but my box arrived in hopelessly trashed condition, so I guess I'm gonna toss it and just keep the board. Who the hell ships a keyboard via media mail?! Seriously?

Offline ch_123

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« Reply #32 on: Tue, 12 January 2010, 18:00:31 »
Did you get the one with the complicated Blue Alps?

Offline Mercen_505

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« Reply #33 on: Tue, 12 January 2010, 19:41:33 »
Sadly, no.

Offline ch_123

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« Reply #34 on: Tue, 12 January 2010, 19:42:27 »
White Complicated then?

Offline ch_123

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« Reply #35 on: Tue, 12 January 2010, 20:00:38 »
Oh right. These keyboards seem to cycle from Cherry to Alps, and from Alps to Cherry in no particular order.

I'm not sure if I'd like a stiffer Cherry Blue. The lightness of the Blues is what works for them best.

Offline Mercen_505

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« Reply #36 on: Tue, 12 January 2010, 20:34:23 »
Looks like cherry white clones on mine. Tactile, clicky, and pretty light. I might drag out some coinage and do some measurements tomorrow.

Offline spolia optima

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« Reply #37 on: Wed, 13 January 2010, 01:56:47 »
I wonder how this would fare with "real" brown springs....  :happy::happy:
:yo: Anyone wanna sell me roughly 101 brown switches? I had a bunch but one of them broke, so i had to throw out the whole set :Cry:
« Last Edit: Wed, 13 January 2010, 02:01:33 by spolia optima »
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Offline timw4mail

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« Reply #38 on: Wed, 13 January 2010, 10:03:36 »
Quote from: spolia optima;150455
I wonder how this would fare with "real" brown springs....  :happy::happy:
:yo: Anyone wanna sell me roughly 101 brown switches? I had a bunch but one of them broke, so i had to throw out the whole set :Cry:

Hate to put a damper in your enthusiasm, but I'm not sure the fake cherry switches are electrically and physically compatible with the real Cherry switches.
Buckling Springs IBM Model F AT, New Model F 77, Unicomp New Model M
Clicky iOne Scorpius M10, OCN-branded Ducky DK-9008-C, Blackmore Nocturna, Redragon Kumara K552-1, Qtronix Scorpius Keypad, Chicony KB-5181(Monterey)
Tactile Apple AEKII (Cream damped ALPS), Filco FKBN91M/JB (Japanese Tenkeyless), Cherry G84-5200, Cherry G84-4100LPAUS, Datalux Spacesaver(Cherry ML), Redragon Devarajas K556 RGB, Newmen GM711, Poker II (Cherry MX Clear), Logitech G910 Orion Spark, Logitech K840
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Offline alpslover

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« Reply #39 on: Wed, 13 January 2010, 12:01:09 »
also, be aware not all 5191's have fake cherry switches, some have futabas which are crap.  keycaps are mx compatible, though.

Offline maxlugar

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« Reply #40 on: Wed, 13 January 2010, 12:57:09 »
Quote from: Mercen_505;150429
Looks like cherry white clones on mine. Tactile, clicky, and pretty light. I might drag out some coinage and do some measurements tomorrow.


The Chicony KB-5191 sucks compared with the KB-5181 which uses Blue SMK Monterey key switches.  I'm pretty sure the ione Scorpius-32 numeric keypad uses clear fake Cherries.  The keys click, but they are inferior to genuine Cherry MX Blues.

The plastics on the 5181 may be cheap, but the metal plate mounted Monterey switches are pure joy to type one.  This has to be one of the most underrated vintage keyboards of all time.

The KB -5181 looks unremarkable but the switches feel like a combination between buckling springs (clicks on both the down stroke and return) and complicated ALPS (sharper tactile response than ALPS).  Not to mention the fact that the bright green LEDs cheer me up!
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Offline Mercen_505

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« Reply #41 on: Wed, 13 January 2010, 15:03:28 »
The extra "online" LED offends my delicate sensibilities... heh. I don't even use numlock as I don't like having the green light distracting me while I geek out.

Offline spolia optima

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« Reply #42 on: Wed, 13 January 2010, 16:09:00 »
I like it more than my used monterey. Need a NIB one for a reals comparison.
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Offline alpslover

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« Reply #43 on: Wed, 13 January 2010, 18:36:06 »
Quote from: kishy;150619
Futaba switches are the inverse of Cherry regarding key interfacing...the key is "male", the slider is "female".


futabas are also available in mx compatible form.  these are the ones i've seen on 5191's.

Offline spolia optima

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NIB Chicony KB-5191 $15
« Reply #44 on: Wed, 13 January 2010, 20:23:05 »
Delicate. Delicate. Be gentle when disassembling and reassembling these things because they're really, really crappy. I bent the leaf during reassembly somehow. It was a quick fix, but only because I have very steady hands. With only a glance at the internals, you can see that the cheapness doesn't stop with the pcb. First off, the tolerances between the stem, top housing, and bottom housing are huge. There's a lot of "wiggle room". The entire setup looks like it was carved with a pocketknife. Any real cherry switch looks like a swiss timepiece in comparison.

I would go so far to say that the switch was whittled by hand.

if you look at it that way, the KB-5191 is a fascinating piece of folk art. I can appreciate that.





keyboards!

Offline spolia optima

  • Posts: 580
  • Location: On the shores of the cosmic ocean...
NIB Chicony KB-5191 $15
« Reply #45 on: Wed, 13 January 2010, 20:26:09 »
Like a shoddy handmade guitar carried by some depression-era bluesman, I think this board has a lot of soul.
keyboards!

Offline sandy55

  • Posts: 201
NIB Chicony KB-5191 $15
« Reply #46 on: Wed, 13 January 2010, 23:05:33 »
Quote from: timw4mail;150500
but I'm not sure the fake cherry switches are electrically and physically compatible with the real Cherry switches.

This type of fake cherry is pin-to-pin compatible with Cherry MX.
I once pulled whole fakes from same 5191 and replanted MX Blacks.

Offline Mercen_505

  • Posts: 200
NIB Chicony KB-5191 $15
« Reply #47 on: Thu, 14 January 2010, 07:26:51 »
Heh heh... yeah, those fake white switches feel super chintzy. I forgot to do a key force measurement last night. There's something oddly special about the board; it's just really fun to type on. Meanwhile, my M13 sits on the table across the room waiting patiently to get back into the action. It knows the Chicony is a passing fling ;)

Offline Mercen_505

  • Posts: 200
NIB Chicony KB-5191 $15
« Reply #48 on: Thu, 21 January 2010, 15:06:03 »
Gonna bump this one last time (hopefully). Since someone asked earlier, I used the RipOmeter to test this particular board. The fake white cherries actuate between 50 and 55 grams. There doesn't seem to be any pattern to how much weight the keys take to actuate. I'm guessing the crappy build quality is at play here more than anything.

Offline fastbuck

  • Posts: 32
NIB Chicony KB-5191 $15
« Reply #49 on: Sat, 27 February 2010, 08:10:30 »
Anybody tried putting this switches in Cherry boards? I'll keep one as is and order more to harvest switches, as I have not seen any clicky cherries for under $50. I think putting this in Compaq MX11800 will be my next project.
Keyboards: IBM Model M 1391401, CVT Avant Stellar, CVT Avant Prime, Dell AT101W, TypeMatrix 2020, Compaq MX 11800, Chicony KB-5181, IBM M-13, Chicony KB-5191, Wang 724,

Pointing devices: Contour Rollermouse & Pro, Microsoft Intellimouse Trackball, Kensington TurboBall Trackball, Evoluent Vertical Mouse, 3M Ergonomic Mouse, Zero tension mouse, MS Ergonomic Laser Mouse 6000, Logitech TrackMan Wheel, Wowpen Vertical mouse, Logitech Trackman Marble, Digital Research DRTRACK Trackball