Can you just retro fit an LED into the Non-LED switch?

[mark.wood_uk]

Hi there,
So i was looking at the Cherry website and from what i can tell from the tech specs page the MX switches that come without LEDs are essentially made using the the same casing as that of the LED variant (stands to reason as a cost saving just using one mould for the switch tops)

So my question, can you just retro fit an LED into the Non-LED switch? It would be a self answering question if i had any MX switches to hand... but i don't i've only got alps atm 

Ps. oh nearly forgot question

Has anyone had any of the China MX switches at all?
Just wondered if they were seconds or the same QC standard?
(i would assume they are in fact coming out of the same factory that Cherry sources its switches from in Zhuhai City
Guangdong!)

Mod Edit: Split from the Simple Questions, Simple Answers at the request of CPTBadAss.  Subject changed too.

[CPTBadAss]

Hi there,
So i was looking at the Cherry website and from what i can tell from the tech specs page the MX switches that come without LEDs are essentially made using the the same casing as that of the LED variant (stands to reason as a cost saving just using one mould for the switch tops)

So my question, can you just retro fit an LED into the Non-LED switch? It would be a self answering question if i had any MX switches to hand... but i don't i've only got alps atm 

Ps. oh nearly forgot question

Has anyone had any of the China MX switches at all?
Just wondered if they were seconds or the same QC standard?
(i would assume they are in fact coming out of the same factory that Cherry sources its switches from in Zhuhai City
Guangdong!)

1st question about LEDs in MX switches. I don't think I've ever seen an MX housing that didn't have a slot for LEDs already.

2nd question about the China MX switches. I'm not sure if they're seconds. I don't think so. I will say I got to try them and they feel comparable in quality to any other MX I've ever tried.

[mark.wood_uk]

1st question about LEDs in MX switches. I don't think I've ever seen an MX housing that didn't have a slot for LEDs already.

2nd question about the China MX switches. I'm not sure if they're seconds. I don't think so. I will say I got to try them and they feel comparable in quality to any other MX I've ever tried.

Thanks for the response, i have seen that they all appear to have the cutout/slot for the LED but as i haven't had any in front of me for comparison wasn't sure if they were good to fit LEDs or if there was possibly an additional factory 'punch' process that they went through and non-LED variants came with an apparent yet unfinished LED socket, so to speak.

On a similar note, i have been in direct contact with the factory that produces the MX red switches.
The very kindly sent me photos and complete drawings of the switches, so far as i can tell the only notable difference is they are factory produced with a 59cn (60.1gf) operating force not 45cn (45.8gf) i assume that to be nothing more than Cherry's spec for production?

Which leads me onto another point... If i was able to get a small order would people be interested in buying them at cost+P&P?

They say they turn out over 1 billion units per week so i kinda think a 'sample' order would be upwards of 1000 switches (i know that's only 9.6 100% keyboards but i only need 1, maybe 2... so that would be a lot of spares  ) )
I would need to to verify min quantity, unit cost + import fees first....
Where i am, i'm looking between £1($1.33) and £1.20($1.60) each domestically available.
I dunno if they are cheaper over the pond or not? What kind of prices can you guys get them for so i know if it would be worth it or not?

I'll contact the factory again and see what they have to say about the operating force, min order quantity etc, if all is good i'll open a new thread asking if anyone on here is interested!

Image attached so those more knowledgeable than I can scrutinise it before i do something silly like order 5000 units
I renamed the image to something understandable!... it was in Chinese and about a mile long lol

[CPTBadAss]

1st question about LEDs in MX switches. I don't think I've ever seen an MX housing that didn't have a slot for LEDs already.

2nd question about the China MX switches. I'm not sure if they're seconds. I don't think so. I will say I got to try them and they feel comparable in quality to any other MX I've ever tried.

Thanks for the response, i have seen that they all appear to have the cutout/slot for the LED but as i haven't had any in front of me for comparison wasn't sure if they were good to fit LEDs or if there was possibly an additional factory 'punch' process that they went through and non-LED variants came with an apparent yet unfinished LED socket, so to speak.

On a similar note, i have been in direct contact with the factory that produces the MX red switches.
The very kindly sent me photos and complete drawings of the switches, so far as i can tell the only notable difference is they are factory produced with a 59cn (60.1gf) operating force not 45cn (45.8gf) i assume that to be nothing more than Cherry's spec for production?

Which leads me onto another point... If i was able to get a small order would people be interested in buying them at cost+P&P?

They say they turn out over 1 billion units per week so i kinda think a 'sample' order would be upwards of 1000 switches (i know that's only 9.6 100% keyboards but i only need 1, maybe 2... so that would be a lot of spares  ) )
I would need to to verify min quantity, unit cost + import fees first....
Where i am, i'm looking between £1($1.33) and £1.20($1.60) each domestically available.
I dunno if they are cheaper over the pond or not? What kind of prices can you guys get them for so i know if it would be worth it or not?

I'll contact the factory again and see what they have to say about the operating force, min order quantity etc, if all is good i'll open a new thread asking if anyone on here is interested!

Image attached so those more knowledgeable than I can scrutinise it before i do something silly like order 5000 units
I renamed the image to something understandable!... it was in Chinese and about a mile long lol
(Attachment Link)

I'm doubtful that these are actual Cherry switches. I'd want you to confirm that they are made by the Chinese branch of Cherry before considering anything. There's too many MX compatible switches out of China these days. Cherry has traditionally been tight with their orders and a "small order" is usually something crazy. Look into Cherry Ergo-Clears and Zeal's Zealio switches made by Gateron. All I have is your word to go by and it's weird that it's 60g of force instead of 45g. Could be how they're measuring it but I don't know for certain because again, I just have your schematic and your word. Not saying you're right or wrong but it would be nice if there was another source of information to confirm it. Maybe a link to the site or a name or the factory. Something.

That price per switch is pretty high. I'd think it would have to be something special for people to pay. Sourcing more Cherry Reds is not something people in the USA would be interested in imo when there's other of readily available sources.

This thread isn't a great place for an interest check. Make a seperate thread for that.

[mark.wood_uk]

I know what you're saying and agree.
Ive been to enough manufacturers before buying in bulk, not that id jump on a plane to china for what would likely be a one off order!

Can i clarify on what is referred to as 'compatible' though please?
Is that just anything that looks like and has the mx keycap fitting?

If thats the general idea, from experience (with other product parts relating to my primary business) i would have to split that into 2 groups 'Clones' and 'Knock off's'!
Clone :
Being as good as, high quality parts and manufacturing,  identical (possibly even made in the same factory) just without the branding, even a branded QC visual failed item (damaged packaging, wrong colour print, blemished (ie fit for purpose, safe and functional just not 'perfect')

Knock off:
Junk, a poor quality copy, bad mouldings unfinished, inferior components that don't meet spec, unsafe non compliant, the stuff that you go 'hmm, maybe if i squint they might look the same' etc.

But hey ho.... Moot point now tbh.... i managed to scrounge this from a local supermarket!
I was just heading to the till (checkout) when i saw an engineer changing one!!!! a few words later outside and £10 for a few drinks and  well pleased with myself 


126x genuine cherry blacks    + a working card reader to go on ebay! (i'm sure some shifty geezer will buy that to scam people with)
I'll just order a bag of 45g springs and perfection.
It even has relegendable 1x1s i can use for macro keys!

Right, that's my evening job now. Stripping this down and desoldering all these switches wooo

[CPTBadAss]

More

I know what you're saying and agree.
Ive been to enough manufacturers before buying in bulk, not that id jump on a plane to china for what would likely be a one off order!

Can i clarify on what is referred to as 'compatible' though please?
Is that just anything that looks like and has the mx keycap fitting?

If thats the general idea, from experience (with other product parts relating to my primary business) i would have to split that into 2 groups 'Clones' and 'Knock off's'!
Clone :
Being as good as, high quality parts and manufacturing,  identical (possibly even made in the same factory) just without the branding, even a branded QC visual failed item (damaged packaging, wrong colour print, blemished (ie fit for purpose, safe and functional just not 'perfect')

Knock off:
Junk, a poor quality copy, bad mouldings unfinished, inferior components that don't meet spec, unsafe non compliant, the stuff that you go 'hmm, maybe if i squint they might look the same' etc.

But hey ho.... Moot point now tbh.... i managed to scrounge this from a local supermarket!
I was just heading to the till (checkout) when i saw an engineer changing one!!!! a few words later outside and £10 for a few drinks and  well pleased with myself 
(Attachment Link) (Attachment Link)

126x genuine cherry blacks    + a working card reader to go on ebay! (i'm sure some shifty geezer will buy that to scam people with)
I'll just order a bag of 45g springs and perfection.
It even has relegendable 1x1s i can use for macro keys!

Right, that's my evening job now. Stripping this down and desoldering all these switches wooo

MX compatible meaning clones and knock-offs yes. Lots of switches that have come out after the MX patent lapsed and are based heavily on the MX design.

Edit: Congrats on your find.

[MajorKoos]

Has anyone tried these 3mm flat top LEDs?
Will they fit in switch without interfering with the keycaps?
 - http://lighthouseleds.com/3mm-diffused-flat-top-led-yellow-ultra-bright.html

[mark.wood_uk]

All brands of led have very close generic dimensions so i see no reason why not! After all the mx switches have been around since led's were new cutting edge tech!
At a glance i would be tempted to say even the super old skinny rectangle led's might fit in the slot if mounted internally!

Those seem expensive though! You will be better looking on ebay for 3mm leds. ($4.80 for 100 if you look about ($0.05 ea))

If you specifically want diffused then a little more, flat top diffused a little more scarce but still available!

[MajorKoos]

All brands of led have very close generic dimensions so i see no reason why not! After all the mx switches have been around since led's were new cutting edge tech!
At a glance i would be tempted to say even the super old skinny rectangle led's might fit in the slot if mounted internally!

Those seem expensive though! You will be better looking on ebay for 3mm leds. ($4.80 for 100 if you look about ($0.05 ea))

If you specifically want diffused then a little more, flat top diffused a little more scarce but still available!

Awesome.  I was hoping I wasn't going nuts.
These are a bit pricy, but it's a ready source for 3mm flat top diffused LEDs.

[CPTBadAss]

All brands of led have very close generic dimensions so i see no reason why not! After all the mx switches have been around since led's were new cutting edge tech!
At a glance i would be tempted to say even the super old skinny rectangle led's might fit in the slot if mounted internally!

Those seem expensive though! You will be better looking on ebay for 3mm leds. ($4.80 for 100 if you look about ($0.05 ea))

If you specifically want diffused then a little more, flat top diffused a little more scarce but still available!

Awesome.  I was hoping I wasn't going nuts.
These are a bit pricy, but it's a ready source for 3mm flat top diffused LEDs.

Um....that's not necessarily true. I'm not 100% on that LED type but I wouldn't automatically assume it's fine with keyboards. The issue isn't with the switch body if you're using MX, but really more with the caps. Some LEDs are a bit too thick and rub against the thicker caps like GMK or nice PBT caps. I will say if you are into those LEDs, buy a couple first to trial fit before buying 100+.

I like the look of the WhiteFox more, I absolutely love that keyboard and I really don't want to buy it used/prebuilt because I like building keyboards, but I don't know if the RedScarf will be worth it. I wont be getting keycaps since I already have nice thick PBT keycaps. The one thing that bothers me is how you can see the pcb plate gap under the keycaps on the RedScarf. Wanted to know if it will be noticeable.
** So at the end I want to see if it will be worth it to wait and maybe get the WhiteFox if it re-releases (or until something nicer comes on) or hop onto this right now since it released.
 

-Deep.

I'm not sure what gap you're referring to. And what is your criteria for a keyboard being "worth it"?

[tofgerl]

Honestly those seem higher than the normal flat topped that I've seen used for keyboards, but I don't have a ready link to check the images against each other.

[mark.wood_uk]

All brands of led have very close generic dimensions so i see no reason why not! After all the mx switches have been around since led's were new cutting edge tech!
At a glance i would be tempted to say even the super old skinny rectangle led's might fit in the slot if mounted internally!

Those seem expensive though! You will be better looking on ebay for 3mm leds. ($4.80 for 100 if you look about ($0.05 ea))

If you specifically want diffused then a little more, flat top diffused a little more scarce but still available!

Right, i've had the calipers out and i have a slight amendment to add to this...
Whilst my information was correct regarding the LEDs and generic sizes, at the time i only had a quick glance at the Cherry switches which i haven't long received!

3mm standard flanged LEDs won't fit! (sorry for the bad advice)
This type:


However 3mm Flangeless, 1.8mm standard and 2x3x4 rectangle LEDs will fit!
3mm flangeless
1.8mm standard

2x3x4 rectangle

3mm flangeless may have issues with certain keycaps as CPTbadass pointed out.
2x3x4mm rectangles will fit with minimal issues as you can tilt them back against the switch body however they still look a little ungainly on the switch itself.
1.8mm standard would 'imho' be the best fitting all round. They are barely 3mm tall and will fit almost completely into the LED 'recess' in the switch!

I will see if i have any 1.8mm's laying around and try and get a photo mounted on the switch asap

[mark.wood_uk]

I know it was a little later than i anticipated but i had been pretty busy of late!
Here we have 1.8mm diffused leds on a Cherry switch... they click onto the led mounting hole nice and snug, and stay in place when turned over!

[CPTBadAss]

I know it was a little later than i anticipated but i had been pretty busy of late!
Here we have 1.8mm diffused leds on a Cherry switch... they click onto the led mounting hole nice and snug, and stay in place when turned over!
(Attachment Link)
(Attachment Link)

Did you happen to test the LED/switch with a cap to see if there's an interference issues?

[mark.wood_uk]

Thanks for moving the posts to this thread, it was more for the guy that was asking about leds that i posted this anyway!

Yes i did, but the only caps i have for Cherry's atm are the tipro relegenable pos keys, which are more of a dsa type cap!
However i have not yet received my tai-hou keycaps  to test with a more conventionally used cap!
I will update for you when they arrive if you wish?