Need an all arounder . . .

[Shike]

Hey everyone, new to the forums and looking for some advice.

Right now my current keyboard is a Deck with Cherry Black switches.  Currently the board does fine for gaming related purposes, but when it comes to typing up reports or coding it really makes my hands tired and after time becomes extremely agitating.

As you see, my main uses will be: Gaming, Typing, and Coding.

Which, in your experience, would be the best compromise considering these three uses?

Thanks for your time.

EDIT:

I decided to pull the trigger on the Brown on my own.  Can't wait ^_^

[AndrewZorn]

yeah, came in to suggest a brown cherry [filco].  THE all-arounder.

[hyperlinked]

I'll second the call for a Brown Cherry Filco though I can't say it through copious experience with other switches. My order of use is coding, typing, gaming. It works well for all of them.

[HaaTa]

I have no issues playing games with my Unicomp Spacesaver. I usually play FPSs.

Bear in mind that years of piano have strengthened my fingers, so I don't even mind long sessions with MY switches (it must be those torture exercises I did, to make my fingers faster; wouldn't stop until my forearms burned).

[low-fi]

As black cherries are quite stiff, I imagine it would be incredibly hard to adjust to ultra-light and wimpy switches such as brown cherries. Buckling springs would probably be better to type on than the blacks and you can game on them just fine, if you can stand the noise.

But as you already decided to go with browns, I'd say they are an OK choice - it just may take some time to get used to them. Let us know how you like them.

[spolia optima]

I was going to recommend cherry browns
but that's already been done so....
topre?

[meltie]

I don't even mind long sessions with MY switches

Actually, if somebody else daily typed on a board with MY-Switches for 15 years or so before giving it to me, they are at least bearable :-)

[Ranma13]

Who said anything about stopping at 1?

[hyperlinked]

I have no issues playing games with my Unicomp Spacesaver. I usually play FPSs.

Bear in mind that years of piano have strengthened my fingers, so I don't even mind long sessions with MY switches (it must be those torture exercises I did, to make my fingers faster; wouldn't stop until my forearms burned).

The piano playing certainly is an asset to your hand and finger strength, but typing and playing piano are different motions and put their own unique stresses on your muscles. If you avoided developing overuse injuries on the piano, it doesn't necessarily mean that you'll be as lucky  a keyboard. It doesn't even necessarily mean that you'll enjoy a similar strength and endurance advantage while typing on a keyboard and it definitely doesn't mean you'll be endowed with keyboard shearing Ricercar grip.

Keep using your BS board for gaming if you think they're good for your game and you remain pain free, but don't use them just because you want to build up or maintain hand strength. It may catch up to you later and once a chronic injury sets in, getting rid of it will be very very very hard.

[spolia optima]

Somehow I'm not surprised by a Pianist choosing the black cherry.

All that finger exercise will really beef up one's tendons, which in turn makes the hands/fingers/forearms more precise and nimble.

For some reason, I think a seasoned pianist would like black cherry switches with brown springs- aka red cherries. They're linear, like the blacks, but featherlight, lighter than browns.

[HaaTa]

Somehow I'm not surprised by a Pianist choosing the black cherry.

All that finger exercise will really beef up one's tendons, which in turn makes the hands/fingers/forearms more precise and nimble.

For some reason, I think a seasoned pianist would like black cherry switches with brown springs- aka red cherries. They're linear, like the blacks, but featherlight, lighter than browns.

Lol, probably picking one up soon.

@hyperlinked - Yeah I understand where you're getting at. Luckily I don't like bottoming out very often.

For those that don't know, the "correct"(TM) way to press a key on a piano is to raise your wrists and press the key using your body to initiate the force to your fingers.
By proxy your fingers end up getting stronger by relaying the force from your body to your fingers.
This can get more tricky once you start getting into more complicated chords, but is usually doable.

Now, for actions such as trills trying to use your body becomes very difficult (again still possible but to less of an effect) so you need to build up finger strength, more or less the same muscles needed to type on a keyboard.

I have quite a bit of piano under my belt (and a number of really good teachers), but I'm not a professional by any means.

I'd rather be able to keep typing and playing piano for a long time yet, so I'll be paying close attention to them.

[hyperlinked]

Luckily I don't like bottoming out very often.

A good policy... but that's just the start of long list of possible ways you can damage the incredibly complex tangle of nerves, tendons, and blood vessels that make up your hands.

Now, for actions such as trills trying to use your body becomes very difficult (again still possible but to less of an effect) so you need to build up finger strength, more or less the same muscles needed to type on a keyboard.

I don't know much about playing a piano, but what you're describing sounds similar to typing, but it still wouldn't be quite the same thing, especially if you apply this to gaming where you might go 2 to 3 hours without more than a momentary break followed up by probably another few hours typing.

It's probably actually better if your choice of hand exercises are NOT ALIKE because you don't want to be overstressing the same soft tissues over and over again. Overuse syndromes is related both to what is getting overused and how it is getting overused.

You've probably heard of high performance athletes going out to do a different kind of exercise on "recovery" days. A runner may go for a swim in the pool or spin on a stationary bike. The general idea behind this is that cross-training may help them make tiny gains while they're recovering from their normal mode of exercise. This allows them to take a day off without taking a day off.

I'd rather be able to keep typing and playing piano for a long time yet, so I'll be paying close attention to them.

There aren't a lot of 21 year olds with serious RSI in their hands, but there are a lot of 21 year olds who are headed down that path without knowing it. It'd be impossible to say what your choice in switch or hand exercises could play in your ability to keep your hands healthy so don't go and switch to a Cherry Brown board just because all of this sounds scary.

The opposite of the usual conventional wisdom could actually be true too in that a person gaming with a BS keyboard could start to lose dexterity sooner due to fatigue, become frustrated, and take a break from gaming whereas the same person with light switches, might have been tempted to go kick ass for another 4 hours. Regardless of the type of switch, the sheer number of hours and keystrokes you log per day is just as indicative if not more indicative of your risk of injury.

[HaaTa]

Cool.

Now to be even more off topic

I've only recently started to touch type, though I'm having trouble finding the optimal way to position my wrists and elbows. Do you have or know of any recommendations or good diagrams for this?

I've dislocated my left elbow (think 250 lbs person jumping on the inside of your elbow on a trampoline) in the past. While I have no elbow problems (8 years of Karate afterwards can attest to that), I find that my left elbow gets tired more quickly that my right while typing.

[hyperlinked]

Diagrams? I think I hear Rajagra and Quadibloc merrily assembling a few book binders of documents on that topic.

[HaaTa]

oo

[Rajagra]

I've only recently started to touch type, though I'm having trouble finding the optimal way to position my wrists and elbows. Do you have or know of any recommendations or good diagrams for this?

I've dislocated my left elbow (think 250 lbs person jumping on the inside of your elbow on a trampoline) in the past. While I have no elbow problems (8 years of Karate afterwards can attest to that), I find that my left elbow gets tired more quickly that my right while typing.

I'm a recent convert to using a wrist rest. Not so much for resting on (though you can in between the times you are actually typing) but for the following:

I find that putting the wrist rest along the edge of the desk, and the keyboard snug against it, puts the board at the right distance when I sit close to the desk. I can keep my upper arms vertical and my elbows tucked into my side. After putting my hands in the home position so my fingers can easily reach the keys on all main rows I can *lightly* rest my wrist on the rest. Not supporting the weight, just giving myself sensory feedback so I can keep my hands at the correct position and height.

I've also stopped using feet at the back of keyboards. Unless you are sitting very low down, those feet are the dumbest idea ever. I, like most people, used to use them just because they were there and it seemed correct, and got in the habit of typing that way without really questioning it. Well I have now questioned it and stopped doing it, and I feel much more comfortable.

[hyperlinked]

I've dislocated my left elbow (think 250 lbs person jumping on the inside of your elbow on a trampoline) in the past. While I have no elbow problems (8 years of Karate afterwards can attest to that), I find that my left elbow gets tired more quickly that my right while typing.

Upps, just noticed this other part of your post... Which part of your arm specifically are you referring to when you say "elbow" and how do you know when it's getting tired? You said you have no elbow problems, but if you can notice it getting tired then that's either not totally true or something else is going on that may or may not have anything to do with the trampoline injury. The details here are vague, but even with full details, it could be anything. It may even be related to posture.



How old were you when the elbow injury happened?

[elbowglue]

I think... you need... some elbow... glue?

[HaaTa]

Upps, just noticed this other part of your post... Which part of your arm specifically are you referring to when you say "elbow" and how do you know when it's getting tired? You said you have no elbow problems, but if you can notice it getting tired then that's either not totally true or something else is going on that may or may not have anything to do with the trampoline injury. The details here are vague, but even with full details, it could be anything. It may even be related to posture.

How old were you when the elbow injury happened?

Hmm, I was about 13 almost 14.

The feeling of tiredness (it feels different than muscles being sore) is right above the elbow (i.e. the soft spot above the straight up from the "point" of the elbow). My chair posture was non-existent for a long time, though I've started to clean up.

But yeah, as far as details, I don't really know what to give. I'm not a doctor (Though a friend of mine is an orthopedic surgeon, so maybe I should get his opinion).

After looking at Rajara's advice (thank you, btw), I will still get the feeling (its the worst position for it) in my elbow unless I tuck my elbow into my side (then it goes away).

Now to start looking for another wrist rest (my other one is in Canada, which doesn't help me).

[hyperlinked]

The feeling of tiredness (it feels different than muscles being sore) is right above the elbow (i.e. the soft spot above the straight up from the "point" of the elbow). My chair posture was non-existent for a long time, though I've started to clean up.

But yeah, as far as details, I don't really know what to give. I'm not a doctor (Though a friend of mine is an orthopedic surgeon, so maybe I should get his opinion).

Your orthopedic surgeon friend would a great person to ask about this if he or she has time to. For something like this, someone would most likely have to beat up your arm to find out what you're talking about and where it's coming from. It's kinda hard to come to any conclusion based on general descriptions alone because it's hard to describe sensations that not everyone's had. Think about trying to describe what an ankle sprain feels like to someone who's never sprained an ankle. I once heard someone tell me she had a "toothache" in her leg. It took me a while to realize she had a sprain.

What does the tiredness feel prevent you from doing? Is it just an annoyance or does it cause you enough concern that you stop doing what you're doing? What sort of activities make it come on faster than usual? Is it just typing, or do you get it in other activities too?

[HaaTa]

Its pretty much only when I use the keyboard, or when I use a mouse without resting my forearm. If its been aggravated enough from computer usage, I'll notice it for a while though. So its pretty much only for activities where my elbow is kept at a somewhat 90 degree angle for extended periods of time.
I just noticed that movement or flexing of the muscles around the elbow around somewhat relieves the feeling. Perhaps all I need to do is strengthen the muscles around the elbow (I haven't been doing many exercises with my arms as of late).

I usually go to karaoke with my friend about once a week so I should have a chance to ask him then.