[IC] Alps-compatible "Modern Symbolic" Keyset

[Wingpad]

This key-set is basically a fork of the "Think Different" colorway for Alps. The idea is to make a quasi-universal key-set for enabling Alps customs that would not be possible otherwise.

Here is a rough mock-up with the current proposal:


Modern Symbolic currently has support for the following "unusual" (or new-to-Alps) layouts:

• RS96
• HHKB/Infinity
• Planck

Plus, it even has an "F19" in case somebody makes a 109-key keyboard (a la the RealForce RGB). That's pretty unlikely, though

More keys could be added for compatibility (as requested) for layouts such as ErgoDox, 75% and ISO. The keys are double-shot ABS in DCS or DSA form-factor.

Please fill out the poll for Form-Factor.

Just trying to to see if people are interested at this stage, so let's hear it... what're your thoughts?

[menuhin]

I will definitely get one set of these.
But would buy only after support and compatibility requests have settled. Such as:
HHKB full support, 6x space bar, split backspace (the 1x backslash), 1.5x backspace
75% support, top row Delete
ISO Enter etc.

[jbondeson]

This key-set is basically a fork of the "Think Different" colorway for Alps. The idea is to make a quasi-universal key-set for enabling Alps customs that would not be possible otherwise.

Yes... yes...

More keys would be added for compatibility (as requested) for layouts such as the ErgoDox, Infinity and etc. The keys are dye-sublimated PBT in DSA form-factor.

Nooooooooooooooooooooo... 

Love Alps, but DSA is just out for me on anything bigger than a 40%.

[Wingpad]

This key-set is basically a fork of the "Think Different" colorway for Alps. The idea is to make a quasi-universal key-set for enabling Alps customs that would not be possible otherwise.

Yes... yes...

More keys would be added for compatibility (as requested) for layouts such as the ErgoDox, Infinity and etc. The keys are dye-sublimated PBT in DSA form-factor.

Nooooooooooooooooooooo... 

Love Alps, but DSA is just out for me on anything bigger than a 40%.

I would consider DCS but it's just worrying to me from the perspective of compatibility. Then you start having to worry about making keys for so many different rows, I'll throw up a poll and see if there would be more people interested in DCS.

EDIT: Added the poll.

[zslane]

Signature Plastics can not sublimate onto Alps stems. These would have to be double-shot ABS.

[jbondeson]

This key-set is basically a fork of the "Think Different" colorway for Alps. The idea is to make a quasi-universal key-set for enabling Alps customs that would not be possible otherwise.

Yes... yes...

More keys would be added for compatibility (as requested) for layouts such as the ErgoDox, Infinity and etc. The keys are dye-sublimated PBT in DSA form-factor.

Nooooooooooooooooooooo... 

Love Alps, but DSA is just out for me on anything bigger than a 40%.

I would consider DCS but it's just worrying to me from the perspective of compatibility. Then you start having to worry about making keys for so many different rows, I'll throw up a poll and see if there would be more people interested in DCS.

EDIT: Added the poll.

I totally get it. And if it was done DCS the cost would go up for legends as well since it's no longer dyesub. It's all trade offs.

Edit:

Strike that about more cost, since zslane says that's not available for alps. So I guess the only real difference would be compatibility.

[elfick]

Yah, I want in on this. I don't even really care much about which family is used. I'm not a giant fan of the pink keys, but I can live with that.
If DCS, which sculpt are you thinking?

[graefeln]

Might be in if there is a planck kit - almost certainly in for Ergodox. Either profile works with such limited Alps options.

[Wingpad]

Signature Plastics can not sublimate onto Alps stems. These would have to be double-shot ABS.

Ah, duly noted, corrected the post. I suppose double-shot ABS it is, then, haha.

Yah, I want in on this. I don't even really care much about which family is used. I'm not a giant fan of the pink keys, but I can live with that.
If DCS, which sculpt are you thinking?

Not sure about which DCS sculpt would be used although I'm pretty sure the only option would be Cherry profile. Unfortunately, SP's options are pretty limited for Alps. As this begins to garner more interest I'll get in touch with them and get more details.

Might be in if there is a planck kit - almost certainly in for Ergodox. Either profile works with such limited Alps options.

I will try to offer Planck and HHKB compatibility but I'm not sure we could make MOQ for a dedicated kit.

[loud_asian]

Lookin' good 

I voted for dcs!

[romevi]

Always in for more Alps sets.

[Wingpad]

Could someone double-check that I actually have all the keys for Planck and HHKB? I'm pretty sure it's OK but I just want to make sure.

EDIT: Realized I'm missing 1.75u Control Key... I'll add that.

[pixelpusher]

Oh you heathens.   I can't imagine how AMAZING DSA would feel on clicky alps.  Heck, if you want DCS go buy some cheap tai-hao caps.   

[Wingpad]

Oh you heathens.   I can't imagine how AMAZING DSA would feel on clicky alps.  Heck, if you want DCS go buy some cheap tai-hao caps.   

I'm biased towards DSA as well... plus it would eliminate the need for three escape keys: TK, HHKB and Planck. Plus deep dishes best dishes.

At the end of the day I just want to see this get off the ground, though, so I'm willing to compromise.

[oatmicro]

Oh you heathens.   I can't imagine how AMAZING DSA would feel on clicky alps.  Heck, if you want DCS go buy some cheap tai-hao caps.   

if you really want to try DSA on alps here you go https://matias.store/collections/keycaps-and-switches-1/products/keycap-set-white-blank  )

[Shados]

I'm definitely interested, and DSA does seem like a better option than DCS given you want to cover as many layout options as possible.

[Wingpad]

Oh you heathens.   I can't imagine how AMAZING DSA would feel on clicky alps.  Heck, if you want DCS go buy some cheap tai-hao caps.   

if you really want to try DSA on alps here you go https://matias.store/collections/keycaps-and-switches-1/products/keycap-set-white-blank  )

Matias caps are OEM profile, not DSA.

[loud_asian]

Oh you heathens.   I can't imagine how AMAZING DSA would feel on clicky alps.  Heck, if you want DCS go buy some cheap tai-hao caps.   

if you really want to try DSA on alps here you go https://matias.store/collections/keycaps-and-switches-1/products/keycap-set-white-blank  )

Matias caps are OEM profile, not DSA.

Its dsa in the link he provided

[oatmicro]

Oh you heathens.   I can't imagine how AMAZING DSA would feel on clicky alps.  Heck, if you want DCS go buy some cheap tai-hao caps.   

if you really want to try DSA on alps here you go https://matias.store/collections/keycaps-and-switches-1/products/keycap-set-white-blank  )

Matias caps are OEM profile, not DSA.

Don't get me wrong, i'm interested in both option.

I gonna join whatever profile it is.

but the fact that we already have DCS alps keycaps from Tai-Hao can't be use here to cut off DCS from the choices because we already have DSA alps as well.

I think Mr.Wingpad want to do in DSA more than DCS but he really want to make this set happen then he can't decide it alone.

I voted for both   

[pixelpusher]

Oh you heathens.   I can't imagine how AMAZING DSA would feel on clicky alps.  Heck, if you want DCS go buy some cheap tai-hao caps.   

if you really want to try DSA on alps here you go https://matias.store/collections/keycaps-and-switches-1/products/keycap-set-white-blank  )

Matias caps are OEM profile, not DSA.

Its dsa in the link he provided

Wait... the description on the page he linked shows details with R1-R4.   DSA is uniform.  So these cannot be DSA. 

[Wingpad]

Yeah... that's what I thought. They just look like DSA in the picture.

"The set provided is the full set of keys associated with the Matias Quiet Pro Keyboard for PC."

[ticktwo]

lookin' good!

[pabile]

will 6.5u be available? i'm in love with hasu's fr-4 aek plate and would love to have 3rd party compatible caps for these.

[Scarpia]

DSA definitely. While I prefer typing on DCS more (who doesn't?) a uniform profile keyset will be far cheaper (you ARE trying to reach MOQ after all) and allow much more flexible custom layouts. Does your dream layout require a R5 backspace? R3 PgUp and R4 PgDn? R1 -_ key? No problem with DSA. HUGE problem with DCS.

And as for the "We already have DSA Alps keycaps" argument, BULL****. Those are blanks, not a real keyset. We do however have DCS profile Alps keysets, lots of them, on vintage boards, and with good cheap DCS modifier kits like Badwrench's Infinity kit you can get pretty far with DCS.

I'd love to see successful Alps GBs for both DCS and DSA, but if the goal is to -finally- allow the Alps crowd to build creative customs and Leopold FC660s and Whitefoxes and HHKBs and Plancks... then you MUST MUST choose DSA or face the exploding-costs demon that has so far killed every single Alps DCS GB except Alpine Winter. Choose DCS and your set will either be too expensive (definitely not reach MOQ), too limited for customs (probably not reach MOQ) or too limited AND too similar to Alpine Winter (end up competing with the aftermarket sales of Alpine Winter, and probably not reach MOQ)

I'll remind the dreamers that Alpine Winter only made it because it stuck with a VERY limited (and ultimately very smart) set of keycaps. And LightCycle recently failed (for now) because they tried to make everyone happy, adding huge and ultimately too-expensive extras to the set.

So my recommendation is: Go for wide appeal at a reasonable cost. Support the most common layouts with the largest keycap overlaps (Planck type layouts can be a problem here, as can JD45 and the like).

Consider a 30-key 'NordEUk' addon kit (the green keycaps in Wodan's original chart) to instantly pull in all of Scandinavia and Germany to your GB.

[kawasaki161]

I was just wondering, but I'm not entirely sure. Does the Clueboard use two left shift keys? If yes, could you add another one of those to the final set? Would be a shame to buy two kits to fill one board with native ALPS support.

[graefeln]

.

[oatmicro]

DSA definitely. While I prefer typing on DCS more (who doesn't?) a uniform profile keyset will be far cheaper (you ARE trying to reach MOQ after all) and allow much more flexible custom layouts. Does your dream layout require a R5 backspace? R3 PgUp and R4 PgDn? R1 -_ key? No problem with DSA. HUGE problem with DCS.

And as for the "We already have DSA Alps keycaps" argument, BULL****. Those are blanks, not a real keyset. We do however have DCS profile Alps keysets, lots of them, on vintage boards, and with good cheap DCS modifier kits like Badwrench's Infinity kit you can get pretty far with DCS.

I'd love to see successful Alps GBs for both DCS and DSA, but if the goal is to -finally- allow the Alps crowd to build creative customs and Leopold FC660s and Whitefoxes and HHKBs and Plancks... then you MUST MUST choose DSA or face the exploding-costs demon that has so far killed every single Alps DCS GB except Alpine Winter. Choose DCS and your set will either be too expensive (definitely not reach MOQ), too limited for customs (probably not reach MOQ) or too limited AND too similar to Alpine Winter (end up competing with the aftermarket sales of Alpine Winter, and probably not reach MOQ)

I'll remind the dreamers that Alpine Winter only made it because it stuck with a VERY limited (and ultimately very smart) set of keycaps. And LightCycle recently failed (for now) because they tried to make everyone happy, adding huge and ultimately too-expensive extras to the set.

So my recommendation is: Go for wide appeal at a reasonable cost. Support the most common layouts with the largest keycap overlaps (Planck type layouts can be a problem here, as can JD45 and the like).

Consider a 30-key 'NordEUk' addon kit (the green keycaps in Wodan's original chart) to instantly pull in all of Scandinavia and Germany to your GB.

If you have one of Alps TKL keyboard(Like KBPv80) which real DCS keycaps do you gonna put on it?

most of vintage alps keyboards are winkeyless and stepped capslock or some might be yellowed.

tai-hao keycaps look not different from vintage keycaps and it was cheap ABS.

I know that you are DSA fan but I have to say there's no real DCS keycaps for Alps rightnow.

and the blanks keyset is the real keyset.

because most of HHKB owners pick them instead of printed keys.

it's not about real or not real, it's all about taste.

I don't mind whatever profile it is, no need to talk ****(like your taste).

[sncbraxsc2]

I am interested in this. Whether it be DCS or DSA! 

[U47]

Since Alpine Winter's demise, I'm desperate for a 6U spacebar. In.

[Scarpia]

If you have one of Alps TKL keyboard(Like KBPv80) which real DCS keycaps do you gonna put on it?

(...)
tai-hao keycaps look not different from vintage keycaps and it was cheap ABS.

I know that you are DSA fan but I have to say there's no real DCS keycaps for Alps rightnow.

All fair points. TKL with Alps is limiting right now, no doubt, and like I said, I prefer the look and feel of DCS, I just don't think a DCS kit would have the same impact or usefulness that a DSA kit could.

However, you CAN make an Alps TKL in DCS profile (not to mention keeping the pretty decent keycaps from the KBP V80!) using either of the Tai-Hao sets, or one of the Matias sets (white-on-black or black-on-white -- and for fans of blanks, Matias has you covered there too). Matias' caps are thick lasered ABS.

I know it would be wonderful to have a high quality PBT Alps keyset in DCS in some awesome colorway, but then you are basically excluding everyone who wants to build anything but a TKL or a classic 60, because a DCS keyset will never do both and succeed.

[Wingpad]

DSA definitely. While I prefer typing on DCS more (who doesn't?) a uniform profile keyset will be far cheaper (you ARE trying to reach MOQ after all) and allow much more flexible custom layouts. Does your dream layout require a R5 backspace? R3 PgUp and R4 PgDn? R1 -_ key? No problem with DSA. HUGE problem with DCS.

...

I'd love to see successful Alps GBs for both DCS and DSA, but if the goal is to -finally- allow the Alps crowd to build creative customs and Leopold FC660s and Whitefoxes and HHKBs and Plancks... then you MUST MUST choose DSA or face the exploding-costs demon that has so far killed every single Alps DCS GB except Alpine Winter. Choose DCS and your set will either be too expensive (definitely not reach MOQ), too limited for customs (probably not reach MOQ) or too limited AND too similar to Alpine Winter (end up competing with the aftermarket sales of Alpine Winter, and probably not reach MOQ)

...

So my recommendation is: Go for wide appeal at a reasonable cost. Support the most common layouts with the largest keycap overlaps (Planck type layouts can be a problem here, as can JD45 and the like).

Consider a 30-key 'NordEUk' addon kit (the green keycaps in Wodan's original chart) to instantly pull in all of Scandinavia and Germany to your GB.

I know it would be wonderful to have a high quality PBT Alps keyset in DCS in some awesome colorway, but then you are basically excluding everyone who wants to build anything but a TKL or a classic 60, because a DCS keyset will never do both and succeed.

Your points are valid and even the polls suggest that most people would be OK with DSA. I've preferred DSA all along for similar reasons but I wanted to hear what the community thought. I mean, having to include not one but three Escape keys is a huge early warning sign of why DCS would quickly become expensive. I'll leave the poll open for a bit longer but it seems very likely that I'll be going with DSA after all.

Do you think we'd be able to make MOQ for such a "NordEUk" set?

I was just wondering, but I'm not entirely sure. Does the Clueboard use two left shift keys? If yes, could you add another one of those to the final set? Would be a shame to buy two kits to fill one board with native ALPS support.

It looks like the Clueboard uses two left shift keys, I'll see what I can do. That being said, making every Clueboard owner buy two sets would help us meet our MOQ

[MandrewDavis]

I was just wondering, but I'm not entirely sure. Does the Clueboard use two left shift keys? If yes, could you add another one of those to the final set? Would be a shame to buy two kits to fill one board with native ALPS support.

Another option is using an ISO 1.25 shift and a 1u key together.

[pixelpusher]

If DCS... I've never seen a cylindrical profile with centered legends.  Do they exist?

[zslane]

I like this set very much, but it is only of interest to me in DSA.

I have three OEM style keysets for my V60 mini but zero DSA sets. With LightCycle gone (for now), there are no other DSA alternatives except this one.

If you go DCS you just end up making another dual-gray cylindrical keyset. Snore. But if you go DSA, you make history...

[pixelpusher]

I like this set very much, but it is only of interest to me in DSA.

I have three OEM style keysets for my V60 mini but zero DSA sets. With LightCycle gone (for now), there are no other DSA alternatives except this one.

If you go DCS you just end up making another dual-gray cylindrical keyset. Snore. But if you go DSA, you make history...

^ what he said 

[kawasaki161]

I was just wondering, but I'm not entirely sure. Does the Clueboard use two left shift keys? If yes, could you add another one of those to the final set? Would be a shame to buy two kits to fill one board with native ALPS support.

Another option is using an ISO 1.25 shift and a 1u key together.

It sure would be an option. But I don't really have a use for the extra key, especially at that place I can't think of anything that would make sense. That said I don't even own a Clueboard (yet), but was heavily considering buying one if this set makes it.

[Scarpia]

Do you think we'd be able to make MOQ for such a "NordEUk" set?

I don't know, but if you activate Wodan over on DT I'm sure he'll call in the troops I would have to grab one or two for myself.

It looks like the Clueboard uses two left shift keys, I'll see what I can do. That being said, making every Clueboard owner buy two sets would help us meet our MOQ

Another way to look at it: Everyone who buys a kit to build an ISO layout (which happens to include everyone who buys the NordEUk kit) will have a spare left shift that they have no use for. I wouldn't worry too much about it.