Matias Switch Keyboards

[Hypersphere]

What do you think of Matias switches? These could be Matias Click, Matias Quiet, or Matias Quiet Linear switches in keyboards made by Matias, KBP, other vendors, or custom-built keyboards.

It seems that the prevailing opinion is that Matias switches are inferior to SKCM/SKCL Alps switches. However, after spending the past several weeks using Alps-switch keyboards, today I put my 3-year-old KBP V60MTS-C back into service (I am typing on it now), and I had forgotten how much I like this keyboard and its switches. Matias Clicks may be noisy and wobbly, but there is no trace of binding like you sometimes find with white Alps. My typing speed and accuracy are also better on my V60MTS-C than on many of my other keyboards.

Although I do like typing on Matias switches, and I appreciate the fact that they are available off-the-shelf in a 60% form-factor keyboard, I still would be interested in modding the switches to make them more refined. The slider, return spring, and click leaf should be exchangeable with corresponding parts from Alps switches.

Thoughts?

[Tangtawan]

From my experience with Matias click switches, I'd say that its very good alternative to ALPS. The point is that they're new and still in 100% condition, while all the genuine ALPS are old and often found dirty.

[ctm]

Matias Quiet Click is what introduced me to Alsp world. I totally prefer it to Cheery tactile, but when I compare it to complicated Alps, I find one problem slightly annoying: when pressing on the upper part of the switch, it's more tactile while on lower part it's more linear (described here). Complicated Alps does not seem to have this problem. No matter where I hit the keycap, it's almost the same feeling. When typing, the inconsistent problem of Matias isn't very obvious (in fact I did not notice it until I read that thread) but still I wish it's more consistent. Is there any way to mod Matias Quiet Click to make it more consistent when I hit different places?

[Hypersphere]

@Tangtawan: Good point. As Chyros and others have often stated, the quality of the typing experience with Alps switches is highly dependent upon the condition of the switch. As you said, Matias switches have the advantage of being available new, either already installed in a keyboard or as loose switches for a custom build.

@ctm: I hadn't noticed a difference in tactility when pressing on different parts of the keycap on a Matias switch. However, I have often noticed binding with white Alps switches. It seems that the white Alps need to be in excellent like-new condition or properly cleaned (and possibly lubricated) to eliminate the binding issue.

At the moment, I am experimenting with "top modding" Matias switches by removing the tops along with the slider, return spring, and click leaf, replacing some or all of these components with the corresponding parts from cleaned Alps switches, and putting the Matias top back on (Alps tops will not work on Matias switches because of the design of the contact leaf). My preliminary results are very promising with a transfer of the slider, return spring, and click leaf from a blue Alps into the Matias switch. An advantage of this procedure is that it does not require desoldering and resoldering of entire switches. The result is a modified Matias switch that sounds and feels much more like a blue Alps switch.

[zslane]

My only experience with Matias switches is with the 50g tactile switches in my new KBP V60 mini. They are nice and quiet, but as you say they are quite wobbly, especially the Caps Lock key which is the largest key without a stabilizer. I think they are superior to MX Brown without question, but I like Topre better for a tactile experience.

My biggest issue with any Alps switch is the lack of spherical keycap sets. I was looking forward to putting LightCycle DSA on the mini in order to actually make it usable to me, but now I just have a $120 doorstop on my hands.

[ctm]

@ctm: I hadn't noticed a difference in tactility when pressing on different parts of the keycap on a Matias switch. However, I have often noticed binding with white Alps switches. It seems that the white Alps need to be in excellent like-new condition or properly cleaned (and possibly lubricated) to eliminate the binding issue.
[/quote]
I have a few Matias click in my switch tester kit and they seem to have less of an issue in consistency, but Quiet Click does have this problem unfortunately. It looks like Quiet Click allowing more wobble than complicated Alps might be the cause.

[klennkellon]

I actually think that the Quiet Clicks are better than SKCM Dampened Cream because they are not as rough and they're more tactile. And the regular Matias Clicks are a good option if you want something like SKCM White but lighter and more tactile. They're also pretty smooth and I think they have some lube on them because they felt a little greasy when I opened a few switches.

They are super wobbly though, even for Alps the wobble is quite much. And of course the sound is nowhere near as good as the original SKCL/SKCM Alps or even some of the decent clones that followed like Type OA2. Finally they are a pain in the ass to disassemble and reassemble compared to the originals.

I always recommend the Quiet Clicks over MX Browns where possible but almost anything is better than MX Browns.

[fohat.digs]

I have Quiet Clicks in a Dell AT101W body and they are very nice. I like them a lot and they are not substantially worse than a similar board with complicated orange - with one big caveat:

Matias is definitely worse about wobbling and binding, and those 2 aspects are probably related.
 

[mike52787]

I have Quiet Clicks in a Dell AT101W body and they are very nice. I like them a lot and they are not substantially worse than a similar board with complicated orange - with one big caveat:

Matias is definitely worse about wobbling and binding, and those 2 aspects are probably related.

Are those the quiet clicks I traded you awhile back? I noticed the same thing, and thats why I didnt want them.

[ctm]

What exactly does "binding" mean in this context?

[Hyde]

What exactly does "binding" mean in this context?

When you have off center strike on a key, it tilts the slider and jams the slider with friction.  Making the keypress harder.

Usually the manufacture avoid this by giving it a bit more room between the sliders but then people complain about the wobble, little do they know the wobble room serves a function.



But I personally own a few Matias boards and I find the clicky ALPS a little bit too loud, and the quiet ALPS a little too dampened (feeling wise) for my liking.

It's like if I want that crisp mechanical feeling I go with my MX Red, and if I want quiet and nice feeling I go with my silent Topre.

My Matias board currently sits in an awkward spot that's neither.  >____>

[klennkellon]

What exactly does "binding" mean in this context?

When you have off center strike on a key, it tilts the slider and jams the slider with friction.  Making the keypress harder.

Usually the manufacture avoid this by giving it a bit more room between the sliders but then people complain about the wobble, little do they know the wobble room serves a function.



But I personally own a few Matias boards and I find the clicky ALPS a little bit too loud, and the quiet ALPS a little too dampened (feeling wise) for my liking.

It's like if I want that crisp mechanical feeling I go with my MX Red, and if I want quiet and nice feeling I go with my silent Topre.

My Matias board currently sits in an awkward spot that's neither.  >____>

hmm are you saying that the Topre is less mushy feeling than damned Matias? interesting

[Hypersphere]

I have Quiet Clicks in a Dell AT101W body and they are very nice. I like them a lot and they are not substantially worse than a similar board with complicated orange - with one big caveat:

Matias is definitely worse about wobbling and binding, and those 2 aspects are probably related.

My Matias-switch boards certainly have wobbly switches, but they do not have any binding at all. I had thought that perhaps there was an inverse correlation (up to a point) between wobble and binding. That is, increased wobble actually helped to prevent binding. But my sample size is small; it is problematic to generalize (but such fun to speculate).

[zslane]

Comparing Matias tactile switches to Topre is a bit of an apples/oranges thing because the switch designs are so different. I find that I can feel the descent of a Matias Quiet Click switch all the way down, whereas Topre switches are like pushing down on air until you collapse the rubber dome and feel the tactile bump. That's why I prefer Topre; it feels smoother overall than Matias, and I think that's simply due to the fundamental design of the switches.

Oh, and there's nearly zero wobble on my RealForce Hi-Pro board...

[Hypersphere]

Yes,  I also like the Topre tactile feedback, which coincides with collapse of the rubber dome. In this sense, Topre and IBM buckling spring are similar. In the buckling spring, the tactile feedback coincides withe catastrophic collapse of the spring. Moreover, the Model F buckling spring uses capacitance sensing, as does Topre.

[Hypersphere]

Here is my latest Matias hybrid -- Matias Click housing with slider, spring, and click leaf from Blue Alps. I'm provisionally calling it the "MatiaBlue" switch.

Here is a KBP V60 with the hybrid switch:





The spacebar has a slider from a Matias Quiet switch.

Here is an audio waveform of a KBP V60 with standard Matias Click switches:



And a waveform of a KBP V60 with the hybrid MatiaBlue switches:



And here is a video showing the two keyboards along with audio clips recorded under the same exact conditions.

The keystrokes are: -09 poi lkj .,m Backpace x 3 Return x 3 Space x 3

Both keyboards have the same keycaps and cases (dye-sub PBT alphas from IBM 5140 keyboards, blank black ABS mods and spacebar from Matias, stock KBP V60 case).

[chyros]

God, it does make a massive difference, doesn't it? Oo

It's hard to say of course but it still sounds a little hollow like other Matias switches, but the fullness of the click, that typical blue Alps thing, does seem to have carried across with this. Nice video!

[Hyde]

What exactly does "binding" mean in this context?

When you have off center strike on a key, it tilts the slider and jams the slider with friction.  Making the keypress harder.

Usually the manufacture avoid this by giving it a bit more room between the sliders but then people complain about the wobble, little do they know the wobble room serves a function.



But I personally own a few Matias boards and I find the clicky ALPS a little bit too loud, and the quiet ALPS a little too dampened (feeling wise) for my liking.

It's like if I want that crisp mechanical feeling I go with my MX Red, and if I want quiet and nice feeling I go with my silent Topre.

My Matias board currently sits in an awkward spot that's neither.  >____>

hmm are you saying that the Topre is less mushy feeling than damned Matias? interesting

Yeah they're a little bit different but for the most part, if you only look at bottom out, Topre is less mushy.

Prior to bottom out, Matias is more mechanical and kind of "crunchy" sounding.  But overall Topre just feels smoother and quieter.

[ctm]

Here is my latest Matias hybrid -- Matias Click housing with slider, spring, and click leaf from Blue Alps. I'm provisionally calling it the "MatiaBlue" switch.

Here is a KBP V60 with the hybrid switch:

(Attachment Link)

(Attachment Link)

The spacebar has a slider from a Matias Quiet switch.

Here is an audio waveform of a KBP V60 with standard Matias Click switches:

(Attachment Link)

And a waveform of a KBP V60 with the hybrid MatiaBlue switches:

(Attachment Link)

And here is a video showing the two keyboards along with audio clips recorded under the same exact conditions.

The keystrokes are: -09 poi lkj .,m Backpace x 3 Return x 3 Space x 3

Both keyboards have the same keycaps and cases (dye-sub PBT alphas from IBM 5140 keyboards, blank black ABS mods and spacebar from Matias, stock KBP V60 case).

Very interested. How is the wobble of MatiaBlue compared to original blue and original Matias?

[drevyek]

The Matias sliders have a different damping solution that SKCM creams, though they look alike. The Matias bumpers extend a bit father above and below the slider, while the cream bumper is more inside. This is because the cream casings have an extended pin for the bumpers to contact, whereas Matias cases don't have that extra bit. The result of this is that the bottom of the stroke, especially in cream cases feels a bit more mush than it otherwise would with the cream bumpers, which are more compressed at the contact point.

The issue of the two feelings of the switch, with one half of the cap being tactile and the other being linear, is due to the fact that the construction of the switch requires the slider to ride down the leaf evenly. When you wobble it, it reduces the contact point with the tactile leaf, making it feel almost like it isn't there. Additionally, the weak spring and asymmetric contact point of the switch plate doesn't help this either.

[ctm]

The issue of the two feelings of the switch, with one half of the cap being tactile and the other being linear, is due to the fact that the construction of the switch requires the slider to ride down the leaf evenly. When you wobble it, it reduces the contact point with the tactile leaf, making it feel almost like it isn't there. Additionally, the weak spring and asymmetric contact point of the switch plate doesn't help this either.

Do you mean that complicated Alps does not have this issue is due to their switch plate? I really wish there's a way to reduce this issue with Matias switches.

[drevyek]

The issue of the two feelings of the switch, with one half of the cap being tactile and the other being linear, is due to the fact that the construction of the switch requires the slider to ride down the leaf evenly. When you wobble it, it reduces the contact point with the tactile leaf, making it feel almost like it isn't there. Additionally, the weak spring and asymmetric contact point of the switch plate doesn't help this either.

Do you mean that complicated Alps does not have this issue is due to their switch plate? I really wish there's a way to reduce this issue with Matias switches.

I've never felt it. My creamsicles (cream sliders with orange leaves) don't show it. Neither do my stock creams. I'd like to know if simplified Alps get this too, as they have the same switchplate design.

[FioraCorp]

Hmm I'm kinda love/hate with matias personally.  I built an infinity about a year ago with quiet clicks to use at work, and about 9 months in it started real bad with chattering.
Luckily this was right when I finished another board with zelios, so I just swapped it out, but I still need to go in and fix those switches on the infinity.
Honestly, I love the feel of matias quiet clicks though.  They might still be my most favorite feeling switch.

[Hypersphere]

@ctm: The MatiaBlue (Matiblu) hybrids have less wobble than the starting Matias Click switches.

After spending more time with the KBP V60 with Matiblu hybrids and an unmodified KBP V60 with Matias Click switches, although the hybrids are quieter, I prefer typing on the unmodified Matias Click switches.

Perhaps the Matiblu switches are too light and not as tactile, but I have better speed and accuracy on the unmodified Matias Click switches.

I have also never had any problems with my Matias-switch keyboards, which I purchased in 2014 and 2015. They are still going strong.