PBT & ABS keycap questions

[VanHagar]

Dear Geekhack,

I have a couple of questions about keycaps. If you would please indulge me, I would greatly appreciate your advise. 

So far, I have discovered that I LOVE the feel of 1.5mm Leopold PBT keycaps. I found a great deal on some TKL boards recently, which led me to trying out PBT for the first time. I originally bought a blank set of OEM profile PBT keycaps from MechanicalKeyboards.com, and I ended up hating them. The feel of the PBT keycaps was sort of gritty, almost like 400-600 grit sandpaper. At the time I purchased the set, they did not say who made them. They have updated their website, and looking at it just now, it appears that I purchased a blank PBT set made by Gateron. Needless to say, I am not a fan of Gateron PBT.

So, I recently purchased my pride and joy, which is a Leopold FC750r w/ mx reds, which I love dearly. It came with the front-printed Leopold PBT caps, and they are AMAZING. The difference between the previous set and these Leopold keycaps is like night and day. The Leopold PBT is smooth, like 3000 grit or even finer, but they are not shiny like ABS keycaps. I have experience the ABS keycap shine with a SteelSeries board.

I don't really know how to describe the feel of the Leopold PBT, but it's almost ideal for me. I love the smooth feeling of the plastic. I want to purchase some more keycap sets, but I'm looking for something that feels very similar to the 1.5mm Leopold PBT but in an
OEM profile.


Please note: I am NOT picky when it comes to legends. I prefer front-facing, but blanks are fine, comic sans, cyrillic, russian, korean, whatever is generally fine. I just like dark colors; I don't care for light colors on a keyboard (light grey, blue, white, cream, etc)

So, my questions are:

• Is there a technical name for the Gateron-style PBT which I can remember for the future that I hate it?  In the same theme, is there a technical name or description of the Leopold-style PBT which I can remember that I enjoy so much?
• do you know of a brand who makes thick PBT keycaps in OEM profile but which feel very similar to the 1.5mm Leopold PBT?  Hopefully NOT Gateron-style PBT?
• Is there a type of ABS keycap which is made thick like the 1.5mm Leopold PBT and feels similar to it?
• If such a thing exists, does that ABS get "shiny" overtime with use? I might buy them anyway just to have some variety.
• I want some DSA spherical keycaps. Badly.  I realize they come in doubleshot and dye-sub. Given that I don't care about the legends very much, I'm more concerned with the feel of the plastic.  Is one more "slick" than the other?  Does one feel more like Leopold PBT than the other?
• Can you describe in just a sentence or two if there is any difference in feeling between ABS doubleshot keycaps vs dye-sub? Can you get them made thick, like 1.5mm PBT?

Thank you VERY much for any advice you can give me. I look forward to joining in on some groupbuys here and would like to become a longer-term member of the community.

[Corsa1r]

Welcome! I'm not particularly savvy in answering any of your questions, but I'm very interested in answers to your questions as well.  I'm also a huge fan of the 1.5 mm Leopold Stepsculpture 2 profile, because I just received my first Leopold about a week ago (The FC660M) with navy blanks, and it's also the first board I have owned that has Mx Reds.  It's a fantastic combination, the smooth graininess and profile of the keycaps feels great on the extremely smooth red switches, and the sound-dampening padding that Leopold uses inside the case makes it sound and feel even better.  I'm hoping someone can chime in about OEM profile keysets in the vein you're talking about, because I'm on the lookout for the same.

[Puddsy]

Is there a technical name for the Gateron-style PBT which I can remember for the future that I hate it?  In the same theme, is there a technical name or description of the Leopold-style PBT which I can remember that I enjoy so much?

Nope. It's just how different companies make their keycaps. Personally, I really like the gateron PBT, but I wish they made a proper spacebar.

do you know of a brand who makes thick PBT keycaps in OEM profile but which feel very similar to the 1.5mm Leopold PBT?  Hopefully NOT Gateron-style PBT?

SP DCS is pretty close, and I think vortex has some weird mid-thickness thing going on.

Is there a type of ABS keycap which is made thick like the 1.5mm Leopold PBT and feels similar to it?

GMK. Pricey but well worth it.

If such a thing exists, does that ABS get "shiny" overtime with use? I might buy them anyway just to have some variety.

Yes, but the ABS shine isn't terrible like everyone makes it sound. I've been using the same keyset for nearly 3 years on my MJ2 w/ reds and the shine isn't really noticeable unless there's a lot of light in my room. I normally keep it pretty dark, so YMMV. There are a lot more factors pertaining to the level of shine you'll get out of GMK. How clean you keep your keyboard, how often you wash your hands, how hard you type, how much you move your fingers along the surface of the keycaps, and many more.

I want some DSA spherical keycaps. Badly.  I realize they come in doubleshot and dye-sub. Given that I don't care about the legends very much, I'm more concerned with the feel of the plastic.  Is one more "slick" than the other?  Does one feel more like Leopold PBT than the other?

PBT will feel more like PBT than ABS.

Can you describe in just a sentence or two if there is any difference in feeling between ABS doubleshot keycaps vs dye-sub? Can you get them made thick, like 1.5mm PBT?

Yes, but it depends on which brand of doubleshots and dyesubs. GMK is king in my opinion, but I like gateron PBT as a nice change in pace. I keep the Gateron on my GH60 and the GMK on my MJ2.

Hope this helps.

[Hyde]

What you're looking for is Vortex PBT keycaps.  They are thick, smooth and OEM profile.  It's the same keycaps used on stock Poker 2 keyboards.

http://www.wasdkeyboards.com/index.php/products/keycap-set.html

The dark grey or white one are both made by Vortex, but the double shot PBT ones have different feeling and I don't like those.

I got mine through massdrop but I think there are a lot on ebay if you search for "Vortex PBT Keycaps".



However I have not used Leopold PBT so I can't say if they feel the same, I just know the Vortex ones are thick, smooth, and OEM.

[Corsa1r]

I didn't know Vortex made grey PBT, do they have that antibacterial coating all over them?

[the_marsbar]

What about the PBT sets made by Ducky? I've heard good things about those, but unfortunately then seem impossible to find (I've been looking for a set myself for a while now)

[E3E]

1) Cherry profile is the general term for the kinds of caps Gateron makes. The texture is more pronounced and the homing keys are different, having both bars and scoops, unlike most original Cherry sets which have scoops. 
 
PBT "conveys" texture better than ABS, in my opinion. Textured ABS does not have the same feel as textured PBT.  PBT usually has a dry feel when textured, which is something I didn't like at first but then grew to love. ABS has a feel that is more "warm," in my opinion. It's a grippier plastic by default, which makes it feel quite a bit different than PBT.

Doubleshot ABS is more expensive to make (because of the process of doubleshot injection molding), but you'll often see dyesubbed PBT original Cherry sets going for hundreds of dollars versus most OG doubleshot sets. PBT is more preferred in general. There is also double shot PBT and PBT + POM doubleshots by Tai Hao and Vortex, respectively.


I don't know if any OEM profiles that are  1.5mm ABS as I don't keep up with them much, but Cherry profile doubleshots are around that thickness. However, if you dislike Gateron's caps, you might not like Cherry profile in general.

[Corsa1r]

What about the PBT sets made by Ducky? I've heard good things about those, but unfortunately then seem impossible to find (I've been looking for a set myself for a while now)

I actually have a Blue/Grey Ducky Dye-Sub PBT set on my Ganss that I got from mechanicalkeyboards.com (when they had them) and they're pretty smooth texture-wise, I'd say very close to the Leopold blanks I am using right now, there is slightly more grip, but I don't think it's because they have a grainier texture, it's almost as if they are 'structured' differently chemically, though or use a slightly different version of the plastic, as they feel 'dryer' and there is somewhat more 'grip' for that reason.  Maybe the texture is slightly different, I don't know, but they are definitely right next to Leopold 1.5mm stepsculpture 2 in terms of my preference.  They are OEM, I believe.  (I'm still a mech noob)

[VanHagar]

Thank you very much for all of the responses so far. I appreciate you all taking the time to help me out. I will take the plunge and pick up some Vortex PBT caps, and I will also go for a set of thick GMK caps in ABS.

I remember reading a thread which talked about how someone emailed Leopold, and they said that a factory in Taiwan actually produced their PBT keycaps. Those people sure know what they are doing when it comes to PBT caps. I actually bought a spare set off eBay just in case they stop making them.

I look forward to trying out some by Vortex and GMK.

[Hyde]

Hey if you haven't place the order yet, this is where you find THICK doubleshot ABS in OEM profile.

The following are ALL made from the same factory:

All the new Ducky double shot ABS keycaps.
Max Keyboard Blackbird.
Leopold FC900R with the red letter double shot keycaps.
Archiss Progresstouch Retro (basically rebaged Leopold with white letter keycaps).

Since most of them don't sell the keycaps as is, the only way to find it is probably look for Ducky replacement caps (or maybe Leopold?).

If you pay attention to the legends, you'll see most of them have a line across the letters which is to hold the plastic in place.  This is how you know the keycaps are from the same factory.

They're all around 1.3 mm ~ 1.5 mm thick (forgot exact number).

I think because most people here swear by Cherry profile (I personally don't like them) so they never caught much attention.  But I quite like these OEM height keycaps.

I made a post about it a while back:  https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=75293.msg1910126#msg1910126

Hope this helps.