Author Topic: IBM Model F AT with GERMAN LAYOUT | The legends are true  (Read 8043 times)

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Offline Olumin

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IBM Model F AT with GERMAN LAYOUT | The legends are true
« on: Tue, 29 November 2016, 10:31:15 »
If you are German and are looking for a IBM model F keyboard, you are usually limited to the older XT variant, since these are practically the only ones to find in German layout, or at all. AT keyboards are very rare in germany indeed, in any layout, it appears like they don't exist. Now I've finally found another Model F AT in ISO DE layout, I've already got one, but you can never have enough of them.


Picture from the Ebay auction.

I swear, there CAN only be like 1000 of them in the whole world.

Offline samwisekoi

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Re: IBM Model F AT with GERMAN LAYOUT | The legends are true
« Reply #1 on: Tue, 29 November 2016, 10:43:47 »
Now THAT is an enter key!

What is the link to the auction?

 - Ron | samwisekoi
Auto-typed by my GH-122 keyboard.
I like keyboards and case modding.  Everything about a computer should be silent -- except the KEYBOARD!

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Offline SpecTP

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Re: IBM Model F AT with GERMAN LAYOUT | The legends are true
« Reply #2 on: Tue, 29 November 2016, 10:49:31 »
that keyboard looks like it came from an IBM Portable.

Offline Olumin

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Re: IBM Model F AT with GERMAN LAYOUT | The legends are true
« Reply #3 on: Tue, 29 November 2016, 10:53:05 »
Now THAT is an enter key!

What is the link to the auction?

 - Ron | samwisekoi
Auto-typed by my GH-122 keyboard.

The auction is over, I bought it.

A big ass enter and small ass backspace, I plan to do something about that, layout mod.

Offline chyros

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Re: IBM Model F AT with GERMAN LAYOUT | The legends are true
« Reply #4 on: Tue, 29 November 2016, 10:54:04 »
Now THAT is an enter key!
Just a BAE innit? Oo
Check my keyboard video reviews:


Offline Olumin

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Re: IBM Model F AT with GERMAN LAYOUT | The legends are true
« Reply #5 on: Tue, 29 November 2016, 11:02:01 »
Now THAT is an enter key!
Just a BAE innit? Oo

I can live with anything on this keyboard but the small backspace and the big ass enter. It is possible to change that to regular ISO type backspace and enter by just swapping some key caps from my Model M's. However I would loose one key since the most left slider of the big ass enter has no switch under it, it only serves as a stabiliser. I did the same with my other Model F. I wonder if there is space for another switch on the PCB.

Offline chyros

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Re: IBM Model F AT with GERMAN LAYOUT | The legends are true
« Reply #6 on: Tue, 29 November 2016, 11:05:40 »
Now THAT is an enter key!
Just a BAE innit? Oo

I can live with anything on this keyboard but the small backspace and the big ass enter. It is possible to change that to regular ISO type backspace and enter by just swapping some key caps from my Model M's. However I would loose one key since the most left slider of the big ass enter has no switch under it, it only serves as a stabiliser. I did the same with my other Model F. I wonder if there is space for another switch on the PCB.
I think you can ANSI-mod F ATs, but I don't think I've ever heard of someone ISO-modding one. That said, the F122 comes in ISO-only layout, why not get one of them? :)
Check my keyboard video reviews:


Offline Olumin

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Re: IBM Model F AT with GERMAN LAYOUT | The legends are true
« Reply #7 on: Tue, 29 November 2016, 11:13:46 »
Now THAT is an enter key!
Just a BAE innit? Oo

I can live with anything on this keyboard but the small backspace and the big ass enter. It is possible to change that to regular ISO type backspace and enter by just swapping some key caps from my Model M's. However I would loose one key since the most left slider of the big ass enter has no switch under it, it only serves as a stabiliser. I did the same with my other Model F. I wonder if there is space for another switch on the PCB.
I think you can ANSI-mod F ATs, but I don't think I've ever heard of someone ISO-modding one. That said, the F122 comes in ISO-only layout, why not get one of them? :)

Like I said, it can be done but one would sacrifice two keys, hence why no one really does it. I don't really care about loosing the keys, I can just remap another one that I don't use.



Here you can see that a regular backspace and enter does fit, only that one key (the one you win loosing the big ass enter) could not be actuated, and the backspace has a switch too much, but you can remove the left spring and replace it with a stabiliser from a Model M and simply remap the key. 

Offline samwisekoi

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Re: IBM Model F AT with GERMAN LAYOUT | The legends are true
« Reply #8 on: Tue, 29 November 2016, 11:19:39 »
Setting aside the horror of opening the sandwich, couldn't you swap the BAE stab for the extra Backspace spring?

Also, congratulations on getting the 'board.  It is indeed awesome!

 - Ron | samwisekoi
(Auto-typed by my GH36 Matrix Keypad.)
I like keyboards and case modding.  Everything about a computer should be silent -- except the KEYBOARD!

'85 IBM F-122/Soarer Keyboard |  Leopold FC200 TKL (Browns) + GH36 Keypad (Browns/Greens) | GH-122 (Whites/Greens) with Nuclear Data Green keycaps in a Unicomp case

Offline E TwentyNine

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Re: IBM Model F AT with GERMAN LAYOUT | The legends are true
« Reply #9 on: Tue, 29 November 2016, 12:15:48 »
Now THAT is an enter key!
Just a BAE innit? Oo

I can live with anything on this keyboard but the small backspace and the big ass enter. It is possible to change that to regular ISO type backspace and enter by just swapping some key caps from my Model M's. However I would loose one key since the most left slider of the big ass enter has no switch under it, it only serves as a stabiliser. I did the same with my other Model F. I wonder if there is space for another switch on the PCB.

There's a pad under each of the bottom BAE barrels.  You can ISO it no problem.
« Last Edit: Tue, 29 November 2016, 12:17:34 by E TwentyNine »
Daily driver: SSK or Tenkeyless IBM AT
1984 Model M Industrial Prototype ⌨ 1992 Black Oval Industrial SSK ⌨ 1982 5251 Beam Spring ⌨ 89 Key "SSK" ⌨ M13 triplets

Offline Olumin

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Re: IBM Model F AT with GERMAN LAYOUT | The legends are true
« Reply #10 on: Tue, 29 November 2016, 12:17:34 »
Setting aside the horror of opening the sandwich, couldn't you swap the BAE stab for the extra Backspace spring?

Also, congratulations on getting the 'board.  It is indeed awesome!

 - Ron | samwisekoi
(Auto-typed by my GH36 Matrix Keypad.)

Of cause you could, but there is no switch underneath that left stabiliser of the big enter key on the PCB (of at least I highly doubt that), so placing a spring there would either not work at all or would have no effect, it would just be a dead key. If there is indeed an option to mount a switch there, I have no idea how to do it.

Offline Olumin

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Re: IBM Model F AT with GERMAN LAYOUT | The legends are true
« Reply #11 on: Tue, 29 November 2016, 12:18:10 »
Now THAT is an enter key!
Just a BAE innit? Oo

I can live with anything on this keyboard but the small backspace and the big ass enter. It is possible to change that to regular ISO type backspace and enter by just swapping some key caps from my Model M's. However I would loose one key since the most left slider of the big ass enter has no switch under it, it only serves as a stabiliser. I did the same with my other Model F. I wonder if there is space for another switch on the PCB.

Well that sounds great, could you explain me how to do it?

There's a pad under each of the bottom BAE barrels.  You can ISO it no problem.

That sounds great, would you explain to me how to do it, just put a spring there?
« Last Edit: Tue, 29 November 2016, 12:20:05 by Olumin »

Offline E TwentyNine

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Re: IBM Model F AT with GERMAN LAYOUT | The legends are true
« Reply #12 on: Tue, 29 November 2016, 12:21:49 »
There's a pad under each of the bottom BAE barrels.  You can ISO it no problem.

That sounds great, would you explain to me how to do it, just put a spring there?

You have to open it up and move the switches to the proper barrels (i.e. the spring/pivot plate assemblies).

Take a look at the layout on an F122 as a guide.
Daily driver: SSK or Tenkeyless IBM AT
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Offline fohat.digs

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Re: IBM Model F AT with GERMAN LAYOUT | The legends are true
« Reply #13 on: Tue, 29 November 2016, 12:22:26 »

That sounds great, would you explain to me how to do it, just put a spring there?


Pretty much. About halfway down in my guide I discuss it for the 122-key terminal. Process is the same for any Model F.

https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=48786.msg1048948#msg1048948

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Offline Olumin

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Re: IBM Model F AT with GERMAN LAYOUT | The legends are true
« Reply #14 on: Tue, 29 November 2016, 12:29:38 »

That sounds great, would you explain to me how to do it, just put a spring there?


Pretty much. About halfway down in my guide I discuss it for the 122-key terminal. Process is the same for any Model F.

https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=48786.msg1048948#msg1048948

Goes the Model F AT apart the same way or is it a different procedure?

Offline E TwentyNine

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Re: IBM Model F AT with GERMAN LAYOUT | The legends are true
« Reply #15 on: Tue, 29 November 2016, 12:51:58 »

That sounds great, would you explain to me how to do it, just put a spring there?


Pretty much. About halfway down in my guide I discuss it for the 122-key terminal. Process is the same for any Model F.

https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=48786.msg1048948#msg1048948

Goes the Model F AT apart the same way or is it a different procedure?

Same idea.  Make sure you have all the keycaps off before you attempt to separate the plates or you'll have flippers everywhere.

Plenty of info available:

https://encrypted.google.com/search?q=taking+apart+ibm+F+at 

Here's a few:

https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=5492.0  (XT is similar)
Daily driver: SSK or Tenkeyless IBM AT
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Offline kalrand

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Re: IBM Model F AT with GERMAN LAYOUT | The legends are true
« Reply #16 on: Wed, 30 November 2016, 12:14:56 »
There's a pad under each of the bottom BAE barrels.  You can ISO it no problem.

That sounds great, would you explain to me how to do it, just put a spring there?

You have to open it up and move the switches to the proper barrels (i.e. the spring/pivot plate assemblies).

Take a look at the layout on an F122 as a guide.

I'll also add that you're going to see a lot of warnings about how hard it is to reassemble everything, and warnings about disintegrating foam.

If you're just doing a single move of a spring and flipper, its much easier on a AT than it is on a 122. Unless the foam is totally destroyed you won't really be touching it enough to worry about it falling apart. Also, closing up an AT can be done without needing any extra tools if you're a bit careful (and have big hands).

Watch out for the spacebar. It doesn't come off like a normal key, so don't actually remove the spacebar before you take everything apart, but definitely take off the other keys. Once you open it all up, this will make much more sense.
My 122 key Model M was born on July 25th, 1988.

Offline samwisekoi

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Re: IBM Model F AT with GERMAN LAYOUT | The legends are true
« Reply #17 on: Wed, 30 November 2016, 12:44:48 »
I'll also add that you're going to see a lot of warnings about how hard it is to reassemble everything, and warnings about disintegrating foam.

If you're just doing a single move of a spring and flipper, its much easier on a AT than it is on a 122. Unless the foam is totally destroyed you won't really be touching it enough to worry about it falling apart. Also, closing up an AT can be done without needing any extra tools if you're a bit careful (and have big hands).

Watch out for the spacebar. It doesn't come off like a normal key, so don't actually remove the spacebar before you take everything apart, but definitely take off the other keys*. Once you open it all up, this will make much more sense.

*Keycaps.  FTFY.

Also, this is great advice: "don't actually remove the spacebar".

 - Ron | samwisekoi

p.s.  Don't listen to the blandishments of the "tweezer" posters.  They are false prophets, and will lead you astray.  Listen to Kalrand.
« Last Edit: Wed, 30 November 2016, 12:46:46 by samwisekoi »
I like keyboards and case modding.  Everything about a computer should be silent -- except the KEYBOARD!

'85 IBM F-122/Soarer Keyboard |  Leopold FC200 TKL (Browns) + GH36 Keypad (Browns/Greens) | GH-122 (Whites/Greens) with Nuclear Data Green keycaps in a Unicomp case

Offline Nuum

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Re: IBM Model F AT with GERMAN LAYOUT | The legends are true
« Reply #18 on: Wed, 30 November 2016, 12:47:12 »
It can be done, there even are pads on the PCB for Alt switches and under all 20 numpad positions:
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And here is how it's done: https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=48288.0

Offline A-train

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Re: IBM Model F AT with GERMAN LAYOUT | The legends are true
« Reply #19 on: Wed, 30 November 2016, 12:49:22 »
Neat find and holy spacebar! I don't think I realized how long the space bar was on those things.

Offline dorkvader

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Re: IBM Model F AT with GERMAN LAYOUT | The legends are true
« Reply #20 on: Thu, 01 December 2016, 13:42:57 »
Now THAT is an enter key!

What is the link to the auction?

 - Ron | samwisekoi
Auto-typed by my GH-122 keyboard.


I put one on a model M once for fun.
Neat find and holy spacebar! I don't think I realized how long the space bar was on those things.
It's one reason why people replace it with a model M spacebar and two "alt" keys. Stock one is almost 10x!

Offline y11971alex

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Re: IBM Model F AT with GERMAN LAYOUT | The legends are true
« Reply #21 on: Thu, 01 December 2016, 21:06:02 »
Neat find and holy spacebar! I don't think I realized how long the space bar was on those things.
And heavy too!  It takes around twice the amount of force to activate any other key to activate.
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Offline kalrand

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Re: IBM Model F AT with GERMAN LAYOUT | The legends are true
« Reply #22 on: Thu, 01 December 2016, 21:07:15 »
Neat find and holy spacebar! I don't think I realized how long the space bar was on those things.
And heavy too!  It takes around twice the amount of force to activate any other key to activate.

Bend the stabilizer wire a little bit flatter, and that's all fixed.
My 122 key Model M was born on July 25th, 1988.

Offline JP

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Re: IBM Model F AT with GERMAN LAYOUT | The legends are true
« Reply #23 on: Thu, 18 May 2017, 18:05:23 »
Just picked one of these up on eBay this morning as a BIN. I even got the seller to drop the price by $20 and shipping was reasonable. Barn fresh from Bulgaria. Sorry Germany, this one is going to the U.S.

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Offline Bucake

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Re: IBM Model F AT with GERMAN LAYOUT | The legends are true
« Reply #24 on: Thu, 18 May 2017, 19:05:18 »
the Ü always makes me smile.
grats on the boards, they're beauties!
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