Question: Relive Apple Extended Alps Keyboard: Matias Quiet?

[iLLucionist]

So I'm in nostalgia mode again and the best typing experience in my memories is with the Apple Extended Keyboard II.

Deskthority reports it used either Alps SKCM Salmon, Cream Damped, or White Damped.

Now onto my questions:

1) How does the Matias Quiet compares to the AEK-II? Has it the SAME feel? Or is it completely different? How DOES the Quiet feel?

2) Coming from the Topre, if I were to buy a Matias Quiet, believing it is a "new" AEK-II, will I be heavily disappointed?

[chyros]

It really depends on which switch it had. There are no equivalents in the current lineup to salmon Alps, for example.

[iLLucionist]

It really depends on which switch it had. There are no equivalents in the current lineup to salmon Alps, for example.

I can't really remember because I was like.. 7-8 years old. But I think it was dampened. Topre somehow remembers me a bit of the AEK-II.

[chyros]

It really depends on which switch it had. There are no equivalents in the current lineup to salmon Alps, for example.

I can't really remember because I was like.. 7-8 years old. But I think it was dampened. Topre somehow remembers me a bit of the AEK-II.

Most were, so that's probably a good chance.

[fohat.digs]

AEK2 is not a particularly rare or expensive keyboard. You can probably find one easily enough if you can be patient.

[iLLucionist]

Is this worth it? Would it be close in feel to the AEK-II?

https://www.massdrop.com/buy/v60-matias-mini-keyboard?mode=guest_open

[Findecanor]

AEK2 is not a particularly rare or expensive keyboard. You can probably find one easily enough if you can be patient.

I agree with this. The feel also depends on the very special key profile that Apple used and for that there is no modern counterpart.

However, the problem with Alps though is that the switches are a bit sensitive to dust so the quality of a vintage Alps keyboard depends also a lot on how it has been stored.
As to the switches, when I have tried the Matias Quiet, I found them to feel a bit different, more "metallic" is how I would describe them.

[AfterDark3]

As an owner of a Matias Tactile Pro, and have tried the original ADB keyboard (Alps Cream), I can say that even the old, worn out Alps creams, the quieter and more mundane of the original alps switches, were still tactile. For the Tactile pro, it is very tactile but it is loud as an old farm tractor. Specifically for the quiet pro, I cannot testify, but I would advise buying a new keyboard from matias. The AEKII, although a great, will require a Griffin IMate, an expensive object that will allow you to connect an AEK to a USB enabled PC.
My vote  is for a new Matias, as it is brand new, modern, has NKRO, and the Built in USB hub.

Yours,
     AfterDark3

[iLLucionist]

As an owner of a Matias Tactile Pro, and have tried the original ADB keyboard (Alps Cream), I can say that even the old, worn out Alps creams, the quieter and more mundane of the original alps switches, were still tactile. For the Tactile pro, it is very tactile but it is loud as an old farm tractor. Specifically for the quiet pro, I cannot testify, but I would advise buying a new keyboard from matias. The AEKII, although a great, will require a Griffin IMate, an expensive object that will allow you to connect an AEK to a USB enabled PC.
My vote  is for a new Matias, as it is brand new, modern, has NKRO, and the Built in USB hub.

Yours,
     AfterDark3

Can you tell me how the NEW matias quiet switch stacks up against AEK-II real alps (and mighthaps Topre)?

[happylacquer]

OP, I have a 45g uniform HHKB Pro. I am getting a like new AEK2 from a friend with a collection next week. I will update you once I have both on hand. I had an AEK2 when they were new - remember buying one off the wall of the only local computer store to stock Apple stuff - but havent had one myself since probably 2008.

[iLLucionist]

OP, I have a 45g uniform HHKB Pro. I am getting a like new AEK2 from a friend with a collection next week. I will update you once I have both on hand. I had an AEK2 when they were new - remember buying one off the wall of the only local computer store to stock Apple stuff - but havent had one myself since probably 2008.

Thanks you so much! This is very interesting.

[Daniel Beardsmore]

Matias Quiet Pro and Topre Realforce are very different indeed.

https://plot.ly/~haata/67 — Topre force curves
https://plot.ly/~haata/274 — Matias force curves

[iLLucionist]

Matias Quiet Pro and Topre Realforce are very different indeed.

https://plot.ly/~haata/67 — Topre force curves
https://plot.ly/~haata/274 — Matias force curves

Topre so smoooooth. Matias looks very jittery there.

[Daniel Beardsmore]

The graphs show comparable amounts of jitter for both, although I found brand new quiet click switches to be horribly jittery when new (they seem to break in after a while).

The Topre graphs are a "rolling" curve, while the Matias graphs show essentially a sequence of straight lines. The straight lines in the Matias graph aren't jitter but simply a very different tactile feel. The Matias quiet switches actually feel a lot like a rubber dome switch that's gone hard with age, but is somehow still light weight at the same time (stiffened rubber domes are heavy and frustrating to type on).

From experience I can say that the Topre Realforce feels like what the graph shows — it feels like no other switch I've experienced. My only guess is that the capacitive operation allows Topre to tune the dome shape for a superior feel.

My view is that the ideal tactile force curve would be maybe 64% Topre and 32% Matias. Topre's smooth curves are very noticeable when typing and I find it kind of odd.

Sadly, I've never knowingly used damped Alps in a keyboard, so I can't say how Matias switches compare. At a guess, I'd say, damped Alps is probably a softer feel (my loose cream damped Alps switches seem to be less tactile) but heavier, as Matias switches are fairly light as far as Alps-style switches go.

My point though was, that trying to compare other switches with Topre is hard, as it's very different from other products on the market.

[iLLucionist]

The graphs show comparable amounts of jitter for both, although I found brand new quiet click switches to be horribly jittery when new (they seem to break in after a while).

The Topre graphs are a "rolling" curve, while the Matias graphs show essentially a sequence of straight lines. The straight lines in the Matias graph aren't jitter but simply a very different tactile feel. The Matias quiet switches actually feel a lot like a rubber dome switch that's gone hard with age, but is somehow still light weight at the same time (stiffened rubber domes are heavy and frustrating to type on).

From experience I can say that the Topre Realforce feels like what the graph shows — it feels like no other switch I've experienced. My only guess is that the capacitive operation allows Topre to tune the dome shape for a superior feel.

My view is that the ideal tactile force curve would be maybe 64% Topre and 32% Matias. Topre's smooth curves are very noticeable when typing and I find it kind of odd.

Sadly, I've never knowingly used damped Alps in a keyboard, so I can't say how Matias switches compare. At a guess, I'd say, damped Alps is probably a softer feel (my loose cream damped Alps switches seem to be less tactile) but heavier, as Matias switches are fairly light as far as Alps-style switches go.

My point though was, that trying to compare other switches with Topre is hard, as it's very different from other products on the market.

Thing is... I hope the matias quiet pro (or V60) is like the Apple Extended Keyboard II and then I'll love it. But otherwise I hate it like I hate my browns nowadays and I'll regret my purchase indefinitely.

Sigh.

[chyros]

The graphs show comparable amounts of jitter for both, although I found brand new quiet click switches to be horribly jittery when new (they seem to break in after a while).

The Topre graphs are a "rolling" curve, while the Matias graphs show essentially a sequence of straight lines. The straight lines in the Matias graph aren't jitter but simply a very different tactile feel. The Matias quiet switches actually feel a lot like a rubber dome switch that's gone hard with age, but is somehow still light weight at the same time (stiffened rubber domes are heavy and frustrating to type on).

From experience I can say that the Topre Realforce feels like what the graph shows — it feels like no other switch I've experienced. My only guess is that the capacitive operation allows Topre to tune the dome shape for a superior feel.

My view is that the ideal tactile force curve would be maybe 64% Topre and 32% Matias. Topre's smooth curves are very noticeable when typing and I find it kind of odd.

Sadly, I've never knowingly used damped Alps in a keyboard, so I can't say how Matias switches compare. At a guess, I'd say, damped Alps is probably a softer feel (my loose cream damped Alps switches seem to be less tactile) but heavier, as Matias switches are fairly light as far as Alps-style switches go.

My point though was, that trying to compare other switches with Topre is hard, as it's very different from other products on the market.

Thing is... I hope the matias quiet pro (or V60) is like the Apple Extended Keyboard II and then I'll love it. But otherwise I hate it like I hate my browns nowadays and I'll regret my purchase indefinitely.

Sigh.

If it helps, Matiases don't feel ANYTHING like MX brown .

[phoible]

In my experience, Matias Quiet Clicks are fairly similar to the Cream ALPS used in some AEKII keyboards. I have an ALPS64 that I built up from an old AEKII, as well as 2 MQC boards (V80-MTS and an Ergodox Infinity with MQCs). The old worn AEK switches are a bit less tactile and maybe a bit louder than the MQCs, but it's fairly close. I haven't used Orange or Salmon ALPS (which came in some AEK boards), so I can't compare those.

Haven't used the V60, but if you're looking for a 60% board, it should be a good option.

Topre is a completely different beast. A lot of people on here love them, but I use my silenced Novatouch less than any of my other boards. I'm pretty sure that ergo clears are closer in feel to ALPS than Topre is.

[klennkellon]

IMO the Matias Quiets are better than the dampened creams. They're a bit mushier but more tactile and not as rough feeling.

[childofthehorn]

I have 3 AEKIIs and two Matias QC boards (a custom I built HHKB-style and V60).

The AEKII damped Alps are more consistent as far as the break and spring goes. The springs and tension is less, but feels more solid.

The Matias QC is more tactile and higher actuation as well as heavier weight. They are not as quiet or as well damped as the Alps originals, however that may be just due to materials.

Change the springs on the Matias QCs and I think you will get very close.

Still I recommend them for anyone doing a new build or who doesn't want to mess with a full size older board.

If you can find a SGI Granite, I WHOLEHEARTEDLY recommend it. It's a Dell AT-101W with PBT keycaps, sick looking case, and Damped Cream Alps.  It does have a PS2 end, but requires no special USB-PS2 adapter as any will do.

https://deskthority.net/wiki/SGI_Bigfoot_series
Some came with Doubleshot ABS keycaps, but most are PBT.

I have one of those too that I restored, but will not be getting rid of. I have about 30 mech keyboards, most for my vintage computer collection. So, yeah lotta Alps.

[klennkellon]

I have 3 AEKIIs and two Matias QC boards (a custom I built HHKB-style and V60).

The AEKII damped Alps are more consistent as far as the break and spring goes. The springs and tension is less, but feels more solid.

The Matias QC is more tactile and higher actuation as well as heavier weight. They are not as quiet or as well damped as the Alps originals, however that may be just due to materials.

Change the springs on the Matias QCs and I think you will get very close.

Still I recommend them for anyone doing a new build or who doesn't want to mess with a full size older board.

If you can find a SGI Granite, I WHOLEHEARTEDLY recommend it. It's a Dell AT-101W with PBT keycaps, sick looking case, and Damped Cream Alps.  It does have a PS2 end, but requires no special USB-PS2 adapter as any will do.

https://deskthority.net/wiki/SGI_Bigfoot_series
Some came with Doubleshot ABS keycaps, but most are PBT.

I have one of those too that I restored, but will not be getting rid of. I have about 30 mech keyboards, most for my vintage computer collection. So, yeah lotta Alps.

You think the Matias QC are heavier? I have only tried a few loose dampened cream but they were closer to 70g and the Matias were around 60g.

[childofthehorn]

You think the Matias QC are heavier? I have only tried a few loose dampened cream but they were closer to 70g and the Matias were around 60g.

Maybe all my old Alps are just really worn in?

I have measured actuation on many of mine between 55-60g. I just stacked quarters on my custom HHKB build and they were like 65g.

So the Matias after the break, it's much harder not to bottom out. The springs are stiffer on the old Alps but the break is much smoother and not as hard.

Though, IMO complicated Alps kinda rule the roost. However, not great for offices.

[Daniel Beardsmore]

Matias click/tactile switches are rated at 60±5 gf, while Alps switches tended to be rated at 70 (in particular blue, white, and black).

For me, the most noticeable aspect of quiet click switches was always how light they are. Yet, as Chyros noted, they feel nothing like MX Brown: far more tactile, yet still light. That was one thing I specifically liked about them: finally, a switch that is neither too light or too heavy!

The linear ones are cited as 35±5 gf, which is weird — that seems uncharacteristically light, but that's the one type I don't have in a keyboard.