Author Topic: A comparison between the Filco blue cherry and HHKB Pro 2  (Read 8490 times)

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Offline pcode

  • Thread Starter
  • Posts: 9
A comparison between the Filco blue cherry and HHKB Pro 2
« on: Wed, 03 February 2010, 08:14:47 »
Hi All, this is my first review here and second post on GeekHack, so please be kind :). Unlike most of you, I only really started using computers after membrane keyboards became very common. Before that, I do recall that I did once type on a keyboard when I was a few years old when my dad bought a 286 so that I can use some educational software. I can't remember what the feeling was like except that it was very noisy and I now regret not keeping the keyboard when my dad threw the computer away -- not that I knew anything  about keyboards at that time.  I didn't know or think about mechanical keyboards until I listened to a podcast by John Gruber of Daring Fireball fame about the AEKII and was slightly influenced by my previous boss and got a HHKB Lite for mac and then moved on to a HHKB Pro last year.

My blue cherry Filco arrived last week from EliteKeyboards. The model I have is the non-'otaku' 87 key together with a set of blank keycaps which I ordered at the same time (together with a set of WASD and Esc keys for the HHKB which you can't get in Singapore). Going slightly out of topic here, but I do think that the key feel does feel slightly different after installing the WASD keys on the HHKB2.

The reason why I got this was that I am very interested in what the blue cherries switches feel like as I've heard from others here in this forum (despite my low post count, I'm a stalker) that the brown cherries have a feel quite close to the HHKB Pro 2 and I wanted something clicky. This brief review would be based on my comparison with the HHKB Pro 2 which I have been using for almost six months now. I now use the HHKB2 at work (due to its quietness) and the Filco at home so this review should encompass how I feel typing during the day and during the night.

Noise:

This keyboard is definitely nosier then the HHKB. It doesn't irritate me at all though and I instead do really like the clickiness of it. I suppose this is non colleague-friendly especially when using it in an air-conditioned environment but it doesn't seem to be as loud as I was expecting it to be. People do hear me very clearly when typing on conference calls that I attend and I do have to remind myself to to mute my phone before I start typing. I do not turn on air-conditioning at home except on really hot days so the noise from the keyboard is probably mooted by the noise from my fan and the TV in the living room.

Keycap Feel:

The Filco keys definitely do not feel as good as the keys on the HHKB. They have a cheap plastic feel to them and if you are blind, you definitely know that you are typing on plastics when compared to the "velvety" feel of the HHKB. I wonder how this keyboard will feel and sound like with Topre-like keycaps.

Another thing that I noticed (and I could be wrong), is that the Windows keys does not feel as tactile and noisy with the keyboards then the ordinary key caps found on the rest of the keyboard. I swapped the Windows keycap with the Alt keycap that I got from the non-printed keycap set and it certainly does feel more clicky and nosier then the original keycap. Am I only the one experiencing this?

Tactile feedback while typing:

This is a totally different beast when compared to the HHKB2. The keys definitely feel rougher when compared to typing on the HHKB2. These are two different key switch technologies so this is understandable. The keys also do not feel as bouncy as the HHKB2 in my opinion but this could be influenced by the sound when the keys are being pressed. The bump, in my opinion, is not as noticeable as the one on the HHKB2.

Key press pressure:

The 5 grams pressure really do make a difference coming from the HHKB 2. I can already feel that the keys are slightly stiffer when I get home from work although it doesn't take long to get used to the slightly heavier keys. I do find myself having to exert slightly more pressure to depress the keys when I am typing. When typing on the HHKB, it feels like a "touch and go" but this does not work for me on this keyboard at this moment. I guess time will tell.

Weight:

This keyboard is definitely heavy when compared to the 530grams of the HHKB. The case feels more well built probably but this could be amplified more so by the weight?

Key layout:

After using a HHKB Pro at home and a HHKB Lite at work for the past six months, it takes a period of adjustment to return to a keyboard with a normal layout. I do find my pinky going to the location of the function key on the HHKB Pro 2 on this keyboard whenever I need to use the arrow keys. The backspace key is also a problem as I find myself pressing the "\" key whenever I need to backspace. This takes some getting used to and I am not going to deduct points off a keyboard based on the layout alone.

Conclusion:

The two keyboards feel totally different but each has their own plus points though the review might sounds like it is biased towards the Topre switches. I am still at the initial experimentation stage when it comes to keyboards so I guess it takes some time for me to feel the difference between tactile bumps and overall key feel. I will post an update to this review in chronological format as times goes by but I should state that I really like the different key feel of both keyboards at this point of time.

Offline bigpook

  • Posts: 1723
A comparison between the Filco blue cherry and HHKB Pro 2
« Reply #1 on: Wed, 03 February 2010, 08:27:59 »
nice review. I do the same now when on a 'regular' keyboard. My left pinky looks for the function key and backspace / pipe get confused. The backspace is more annoying to me though.
I sold my blue cherry filco awhile back but still  have the das III. But I do  prefer the  HHKB over the blue or brown cherry.
HHKB Pro 2 : Unicomp Spacesaver : IBM Model M : DasIII    

Offline devilcm3

  • Posts: 31
A comparison between the Filco blue cherry and HHKB Pro 2
« Reply #2 on: Wed, 03 February 2010, 08:44:26 »
hi pcode...singapore here too..theres actually local distributor that sells filco red esc keys and WASD....
recently they plan to do an MO for filco 87keys with white backplate..

i myself bought FKBN104MC/EB from them...but my curiosity force me to buy another filco keyboard...
this time is FKBN87M/EB...

i order mine from amazon japan...and it costs me around $180 singapore dollars....the base price for the keyboard itseff is $140...much cheaper than you bought from elite

if you can read chinese i do suggest you to look for taiwan reseller such as INPAD or ARMYGROUP...their filcos are alot cheaper than elite and japanese resellers
Black Cherry MX , once you bought it , it is yours , it is permanently yours , it is permanently yours till you meet your maker

1.FILCO Cherry Blue FKBN104MC/EB
2.FILCO Cherry Brown FKBN84M/EB

Offline rdjack21

  • Posts: 896
A comparison between the Filco blue cherry and HHKB Pro 2
« Reply #3 on: Wed, 03 February 2010, 08:47:05 »
Nice balanced review. Personally I've settled on Cherry browns to compliment my Topre boards but still prefer to type on the Topre. And like bigpook I've sold off my Blues mostly because the high pitch click was getting on my nerves but other than that I did like typing on them.
Keyboards
Topre Capacitive: Realforce 87U, Realforce 86U, HHKB Pro 2, Topre MD01B0, Topre HE0100, Sun Short Type, OEM NEO CS (x2), NISSHO Electronics KB106DE
Buckling Spring: IBM Model M Space Saver (1291472), Unicomp Customizer x 2
Cherry Brown: Filco FKBN87M/EB, Compaq MX11800
Black Alps: ABS M1
Not so great boards Rare Spring over dome OKI, Sun rack keyboard

Trackballs - Trackman Wheel (3), Trackman marble (2)
Keyboards I still want to get - Happy Hacking Keyboard Pro 2 the White version, Realforce 23U number pad in black and maybe white, μTRON ergo board with Topre switches.
Previously owned - [size=0]SiiG MiniTouch (White Alps), Scorpius M10 (Blue Cherry), IBM Model M13[/size]

Offline devilcm3

  • Posts: 31
A comparison between the Filco blue cherry and HHKB Pro 2
« Reply #4 on: Wed, 03 February 2010, 08:50:20 »
Quote from: rdjack21;155895
Nice balanced review. Personally I've settled on Cherry browns to compliment my Topre boards but still prefer to type on the Topre. And like bigpook I've sold off my Blues mostly because the high pitch click was getting on my nerves but other than that I did like typing on them.


does browns tastes like topres? im wonder , oh noes not another curiosity
Black Cherry MX , once you bought it , it is yours , it is permanently yours , it is permanently yours till you meet your maker

1.FILCO Cherry Blue FKBN104MC/EB
2.FILCO Cherry Brown FKBN84M/EB

Offline bigpook

  • Posts: 1723
A comparison between the Filco blue cherry and HHKB Pro 2
« Reply #5 on: Wed, 03 February 2010, 08:59:09 »
Quote from: devilcm3;155897
does browns tastes like topres? im wonder , oh noes not another curiosity


If taste == similar then I would say yes, the browns are closest to the topres.
While the browns are nice in their own right, the topres smoke them  with their incredible smoothness.

The topres are the smoothest switch I have ever used, right behind that is the BS keys.
HHKB Pro 2 : Unicomp Spacesaver : IBM Model M : DasIII    

Offline ch_123

  • * Exalted Elder
  • Posts: 5860
A comparison between the Filco blue cherry and HHKB Pro 2
« Reply #6 on: Wed, 03 February 2010, 09:10:34 »
I used to like Cherry Blues for their lightness, after I got my HHKB, they became rather 'meh', which is why Im selling off my Filco at some stage.

Offline bigpook

  • Posts: 1723
A comparison between the Filco blue cherry and HHKB Pro 2
« Reply #7 on: Wed, 03 February 2010, 09:19:23 »
I thought the cherry blues were nice but the high pitched click was annoying to me.
Personal pref, as I like the noise from my IBM's and ALPS.
HHKB Pro 2 : Unicomp Spacesaver : IBM Model M : DasIII    

Offline pcode

  • Thread Starter
  • Posts: 9
A comparison between the Filco blue cherry and HHKB Pro 2
« Reply #8 on: Fri, 05 February 2010, 09:21:15 »
Quote from: bigpook;155891
nice review. I do the same now when on a 'regular' keyboard. My left pinky looks for the function key and backspace / pipe get confused. The backspace is more annoying to me though.
I sold my blue cherry filco awhile back but still  have the das III. But I do  prefer the  HHKB over the blue or brown cherry.


I still do not have any preference over either the HHKB or the blue cherry except that I am starting to miss the HHKB layout when I am home. I think the blue cherry is a nice switch and its a totally different experience typing on them.

Offline pcode

  • Thread Starter
  • Posts: 9
A comparison between the Filco blue cherry and HHKB Pro 2
« Reply #9 on: Fri, 05 February 2010, 09:33:06 »
Quote from: devilcm3;155894
hi pcode...singapore here too..theres actually local distributor that sells filco red esc keys and WASD....
recently they plan to do an MO for filco 87keys with white backplate..

i myself bought FKBN104MC/EB from them...but my curiosity force me to buy another filco keyboard...
this time is FKBN87M/EB...

i order mine from amazon japan...and it costs me around $180 singapore dollars....the base price for the keyboard itseff is $140...much cheaper than you bought from elite

if you can read chinese i do suggest you to look for taiwan reseller such as INPAD or ARMYGROUP...their filcos are alot cheaper than elite and japanese resellers


Hi there! Yeah i know about the distributor but I was getting the lavender WASD keys and Red ESC keys for my HHKB. It is not available in Singapore.

I might look at bringing in some brown cherries from Japan but although I do read chinese, I really do not trust asian retailers that much. I would rather buy from reputable reseller just for that peace of mind alone as I do want to go through the hassle of following up on my orders. EliteKeyboards has been providing a great service to many users in this forum so I thought that I should just buy from them and blue cherries (87 keys) were not available locally when I looked and asked around.

I think we should meet up some day. I'll bring my HHKB and you bring your brown cherry as I am still curious about how it feels like. How does that sound? Drop me a PM if you are interested. :)

Offline pcode

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  • Posts: 9
A comparison between the Filco blue cherry and HHKB Pro 2
« Reply #10 on: Fri, 05 February 2010, 09:38:07 »
Quote from: bigpook;155899

The topres are the smoothest switch I have ever used, right behind that is the BS keys.


I can attest to that! I am still amazed at these Japanese switches once I reach the office every morning. Its one pretty darn good keyboard.

Come to think of it, after I got the FILCO keyboard, I saw a colleague who requested for a new Dell keyboard. I 'molested' the keys to get a feel of the keycaps and he was giving me that weird look. Its a regular rubber dome though but the keyboard looks nice on the design side of things.

Offline pcode

  • Thread Starter
  • Posts: 9
A comparison between the Filco blue cherry and HHKB Pro 2
« Reply #11 on: Fri, 05 February 2010, 09:49:27 »
Quote from: ripster;155922
Cherry Blues and Topres are both great.  I'm typing on my Topre right now.

And yes, back to the OP.  


They aren't as loud as some Geekhackers say.  Listen to the recordings and decide for yourself.


I didn't really find it that loud though. I did listen to the recordings before I decided to purchase the keyboard but during that time, I just thought that this was quite subjective as what I am hearing on my computer will be very different from what one would hear when recording.

Offline pcode

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  • Posts: 9
A comparison between the Filco blue cherry and HHKB Pro 2
« Reply #12 on: Fri, 05 February 2010, 11:40:53 »
Quote from: ripster;156461
Use either my simple script or Raj's super duper AHK script (assuming you're on Windows).  Usually a simple remap of \ to BackSpace and CapsLock to CTRL is enough to get you 90% there.  You can also remap \ and pipe back to the same key with Shift and FCN modifiers.


I use a mac at home and haven't found an application that does what AHK does. I did a search before, and in order to be able to modify keycodes on the Mac, a kernel level driver is needed. At least I got back my volume keys by mapping the F* keys with KeyboardMaestro and I might look at writing an AHK-like software for the Mac at some point but I am just not entirely sure if I am up to the job. Drivers are really complicated.

Offline alvin8866

  • Posts: 6
A comparison between the Filco blue cherry and HHKB Pro 2
« Reply #13 on: Tue, 02 March 2010, 22:44:51 »
pcode, do you back to Singapore often?

I got a Filco w blue switches and Das Model S Ultimate, it always disturb my frd since they are very clicky

Can you help me a favor?
I am damn interested in getting a HHBK Pro 2...
I hope you can help me buy it from elitekeyboard since its reputation is good..
I don't mind to pay higher price for it (condition: the price is acceptable)

Once again, I will appreciate if you are willing to help me
Looking for your good news ^^

Offline chongyixiong

  • Posts: 257
  • Location: South East Asia
A comparison between the Filco blue cherry and HHKB Pro 2
« Reply #14 on: Wed, 03 March 2010, 03:34:44 »
alvin, send an e-mail to Elitekeyboards.

They do ship internationally, but at a cost of course!

And pcode, nice review and I really feel what you think of it there.. for me, I'm currently aiming for a proper Tenkeyless Blue Cherries and a HHKB Pro2 with an accompanying Topre/Blue Cherry numpad once I decide which I like to click on more often.

Offline alvin8866

  • Posts: 6
A comparison between the Filco blue cherry and HHKB Pro 2
« Reply #15 on: Thu, 04 March 2010, 00:53:29 »
chongyixiong, thx for your information... since pcode is Singaporean too, I wonder if he could help me..

I think the shipment cost is very high...
how do you think?

Offline HaaTa

  • Master Kiibohd Hunter
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Re: A comparison between the Filco blue cherry and HHKB Pro 2
« Reply #16 on: Thu, 04 March 2010, 01:01:07 »
Wouldn't it be cheaper to order one from Japan?
Kiibohd

ALWAYS looking for cool and interesting switches
I take requests for making keyboard converters (i.e. *old keyboard* to USB).

Offline alvin8866

  • Posts: 6
A comparison between the Filco blue cherry and HHKB Pro 2
« Reply #17 on: Fri, 05 March 2010, 15:31:02 »
I don't know HHKB distro in Japan
I will appreciate if someone can provide me more information. Does anyone get HHKB at price lower than $254? Can get any discount from elitekeyboards?

For example, we normally can get 40% discount buying a Das kb from Metadot (student price)...

Offline chongyixiong

  • Posts: 257
  • Location: South East Asia
A comparison between the Filco blue cherry and HHKB Pro 2
« Reply #18 on: Sat, 06 March 2010, 10:10:29 »
Quote from: alvin8866;162026
I don't know HHKB distro in Japan
I will appreciate if someone can provide me more information. Does anyone get HHKB at price lower than $254? Can get any discount from elitekeyboards?

For example, we normally can get 40% discount buying a Das kb from Metadot (student price)...

Dude, HHKB Pro2 is that expensive. In fact, EliteKeyboard's price is the far lowest I've seen so far on the net, with full 1-year warranty (for folks in the US) but the cheapest I've seen on the internet near our Asian region, are from Taiwanese sellers.

They go for about NTD$8600, which works out to be around USD$266-ish and you might save *abit* more from shipping costs.

Just bear in mind that the board costs that much with SRP of 20-21,800 Yen, which incidentally costs about USD$225-244-ish as well.
« Last Edit: Sat, 06 March 2010, 10:56:13 by chongyixiong »

Offline devilcm3

  • Posts: 31
A comparison between the Filco blue cherry and HHKB Pro 2
« Reply #19 on: Sat, 06 March 2010, 11:25:20 »
they are indeed much more cheaper in japan

i do order my filco tenkeyless from amazon japan...and using proxy for the shipping to singapore...the total cost is around $131($100 kb + $31 sh)..cheaper than elitekeyboards...(they quote me shipping for $25 + kb $121 = $146)
but minus the warranty of course..but hey..who cares..this is a rock solid keyboard anyway :D
« Last Edit: Sat, 06 March 2010, 11:32:03 by devilcm3 »
Black Cherry MX , once you bought it , it is yours , it is permanently yours , it is permanently yours till you meet your maker

1.FILCO Cherry Blue FKBN104MC/EB
2.FILCO Cherry Brown FKBN84M/EB

Offline o2dazone

  • Posts: 953
A comparison between the Filco blue cherry and HHKB Pro 2
« Reply #20 on: Sat, 06 March 2010, 15:11:58 »
Nice review, it's always interesting reading what people feel about two heavy weight switches like topres and blue cherries

Offline alvin8866

  • Posts: 6
A comparison between the Filco blue cherry and HHKB Pro 2
« Reply #21 on: Sun, 07 March 2010, 05:30:19 »
Hope to get more information about price and distributor of HHKB in US and Asia..
« Last Edit: Sun, 07 March 2010, 05:34:44 by alvin8866 »

Offline alvin8866

  • Posts: 6
A comparison between the Filco blue cherry and HHKB Pro 2
« Reply #22 on: Sun, 07 March 2010, 05:32:58 »
Thank you so much, dude.
Your information is quite useful..
Have a nice day!

Offline ch_123

  • * Exalted Elder
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A comparison between the Filco blue cherry and HHKB Pro 2
« Reply #23 on: Sun, 07 March 2010, 06:07:05 »
Quote from: devilcm3;162156
.but hey..who cares..this is a rock solid keyboard anyway :D


There have been a few people around here who have had to avail of their warranty. These things are not as indestructible as some other keyboards.