Author Topic: touch typing asymmetry  (Read 3881 times)

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Offline msiegel

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touch typing asymmetry
« on: Sat, 06 February 2010, 01:51:25 »
(note: see also this thread)

I'm beginning to learn to touch type, and have discovered that on a standard-layout keyboard, the regions of keys assigned to each hand are *nowhere near* symmetrical.

In fact, the left hand's fingers flex and extend almost exactly the "wrong" way, compared to the right hand.

I'm irritated and a little worried about how bizarrely unbalanced the standard design is.


Attached: a picture I drew to help calm me down :)

« Last Edit: Mon, 08 February 2010, 11:54:58 by msiegel »

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Offline majestouch

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touch typing asymmetry
« Reply #1 on: Sat, 06 February 2010, 03:01:22 »
From the standpoint of memorization a symmetrical board makes some sense...yes, but I'm not sure the standard asymmetry of keyboards is mechanically disadvantageous.

How many symmetrical tools do we use? Or how often do we use tools with 2 hands operating the same motion? Can we play guitar or shoot billiards with the same skill both left and right handed?

The motor control of our left and right appendages, and in general our mind, are naturally asymmetrical. We have a dominant eye, hand, leg, etc. So making a tool that allows us to use the left and right sides of our bodies work well in concert and to the highest effect our brains can manage is probably the best balance we can achieve.


Offline nanu

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touch typing asymmetry
« Reply #2 on: Sat, 06 February 2010, 03:35:39 »
One could then argue for having a second mouse on the other side. What?

Offline Rajagra

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touch typing asymmetry
« Reply #3 on: Sat, 06 February 2010, 04:16:53 »
Quote from: majestouch;156707
From the standpoint of memorization a symmetrical board makes some sense...

Symmetry is good for learning, but I believe the traditional typing method is easier to teach, because it is dumbed down. Not much to explain here, it is a consistent slope with no exceptions (apart from the huge number of keys serviced by the right pinky):



And since the teachers dictate how learning is done rather than the pupils, we have ended up with an inferior standard.

Offline platon

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touch typing asymmetry
« Reply #4 on: Sat, 06 February 2010, 08:49:40 »
Quote from: nanu;156710
One could then argue for having a second mouse on the other side. What?

Actually that is how my setup is right now, both at work and at home. I am right handed and the mouse is on the left side of the keyboard.

Try it out it is easier than it sounds. The brain adjusts in days and you feel a bit smarter for using the other side of the brain more.

Major benefit from having the mouse to the left is that the numeric keypad is no longer in the way and the home row keys can be centered to the screen.
« Last Edit: Sat, 06 February 2010, 08:58:57 by platon »
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Offline microsoft windows

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touch typing asymmetry
« Reply #5 on: Sat, 06 February 2010, 10:33:45 »
Quote from: ripster;156703
Couple of options -

Hack a M
Show Image


Spend the big bucks
Show Image


I dunno.  Sounds better than it works when I tried it.  The top left row was great but the bottom left row was a PITA.


Ripster, were you able to split up the Return key?
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Offline bigpook

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touch typing asymmetry
« Reply #6 on: Sat, 06 February 2010, 10:39:59 »
Quote from: webwit;156709
No, you need symmetry and blindness for the perfect harmony!

 


Nobuyuki Tsujii. I've never seen a crowd go mad like that after a classical performance. The really creepy thing is in that competition there was http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b2Rwxe7FJwk[/youtube]]one guy[/URL] even better. Of course he had to be Chinese.


nice,I listened to both. I feel better about humanity when I see/hear such talent.
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Offline onowak

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dvora or colemak?
« Reply #7 on: Sat, 06 February 2010, 10:46:23 »
if you are just learning how to touch-type, i would recommend learning dvorak or colemak.

i finally learned how to touch-type last year and used it as an opportunity to learn dvorak. never regretted it.

-0.

Offline HaaTa

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touch typing asymmetry
« Reply #8 on: Sat, 06 February 2010, 11:09:05 »
Quote from: ripster;156751
You mean on the Model F AT?  I haven't tried to see if I can activate that extra pad under ENTER yet.


That's my project after I get back from Hokkaido. I'm really liking the Model F to type on, just getting pissed off at the Backspace. Everything else is pretty much a non-issue, or I can fix it with software.
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Offline HaaTa

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touch typing asymmetry
« Reply #9 on: Sat, 06 February 2010, 11:41:52 »
Quote from: webwit;156754
Cool. Best fix so far I think is mapping backspace to caps lock, colemak style, and forget about the small one to the top right.


Lol, not much work for me, since I use Colemak. I've only had the chance to use it for a day, so I haven't had much time to adjust my habits for the backspace. I miss the Backspace where the normal CapsLock is, but I like the Ctrl there too. Guess I should just stop making mistakes and then life's good :P .

I have a full set of Model M keycaps I got with the Model F (from Trievalot), so I want to try and mod up a normal sized Backspace and Enter. If I don't like it I'll just put it back the way it was.


Speaking of annoyingly sized keys, look at the bizarre freaks of nature I found today in Akihabara.





If I didn't already have two (well four, two for my 701 and two for my 901) I would've picked one of these up.


I saw an Apple II and this keyboard. I did take pictures but for some reason they didn't save. I think this is a WYSI or some order of those initials.
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Offline Rajagra

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touch typing asymmetry
« Reply #10 on: Sat, 06 February 2010, 18:37:30 »
Quote from: HaaTa;156757
Speaking of annoyingly sized keys, look at the bizarre freaks of nature I found today in Akihabara.

Show Image



Those arrow keys would actulally be quite good if the top of the left/right keys were recessed (like the capslock key). It would be the best of both worlds - easy to locate like a 'normal' keyboard, but big left/right keys you can mash away on.

Offline DreymaR

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touch typing asymmetry
« Reply #11 on: Mon, 08 February 2010, 03:28:08 »
Uh, why are there two topics on this matt? At the VERY least, you should link one to the other!!!

"Unhack" the top left row of Ripster's hacked M up there, and you have a very good mod for a run-of-the-mill keyboard. I can heartily recommend it, even if Ripster didn't enjoy his (initial) experience. I trust you've seen the discussion at the Colemak forum on wider layouts?
« Last Edit: Mon, 08 February 2010, 03:31:38 by DreymaR »
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Offline HaaTa

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Re: touch typing asymmetry
« Reply #12 on: Mon, 08 February 2010, 04:35:16 »
So we can go OT twice as many times. Duh.
:P
Kiibohd

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Offline msiegel

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touch typing asymmetry
« Reply #13 on: Mon, 08 February 2010, 11:53:39 »
Quote from: DreymaR;157007
why are there two topics on this

:D thanks for the link

i hadn't even considered colemak when i started this thread... then later, i didn't want to burden colemakers with an archaic layout ;D

(note: see also this thread - symmetrical colemak (mini))

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Offline DreymaR

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touch typing asymmetry
« Reply #14 on: Tue, 09 February 2010, 02:44:00 »


The latest developments in low-cost/"ghetto" ergonomy. Quite similar to Ripster's attempt but with added perks. I'm going to try it out a bit; if you're interested I could make a .reg file available. In my opinion, this works best on an ISO board like what Ripster used but an ANSI version (without ZXCVB shift) is entirely workable too.

Edit: You can now find the needed .reg code and whatnot in the Colemak forum topic! Note that the ergonomy mods work equally well for QWERTY, Dvorak, Colemak or what-have-you users unless they're depending on registry mappings already. You may choose between Wide-shift only, ZXCVB-shift only or Wide+ZXCVB-shifted mods. Enjoy!
« Last Edit: Tue, 09 February 2010, 06:37:55 by DreymaR »
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