Serial Mouse latency...

[Oqsy]

I found an old serial mouse (an early logitech mechanical) that I'm playing around with today.  Does anyone know how much latency difference there is between a serial, ps2, usb, ir, or bluetooth mouse?  I feel like this mouse has the smoothest action but most sluggish response of any mouse I've used.  I prefer the 3 button layout to the two buttons and a wheel, but I don't think this apparent lack in response will bode well for the serial mouse.  I still haven't tweaked the sensitivity settings, but this really doesn't feel like a sensitivity issue, and I'm wondering if I'm actually sensing the limitation of the serial connection, or if that's just me imagining things.  Thanks!

edit:  Actually found out it isn't as old as I'd estimated.  It's a Logitech Model M-35

[ch_123]

It's nothing to do with the serial connection. It's to do with the sensitivity of the mouse itself. Old mice were optimized for the screen resolutions of the day (i.e. 640x480 or 800x600) so, given the standard mouse sensitivity of Windows, the hardware would be optimized to move the cursor by a certain number of pixels in order to provide a smooth experience. Consequently when you plug it into a computer with a 1280x1024+ screen, it doesn't move enough relative to the effort you put into it.

The converse is true - plugging a modern mouse into a computer with a low resolution on the screen will give you a hypersensitive mousing experience.

[kishy]

Hey, that M-M35 photo is from my site!

Awesome lol

They're nice mice...as far as serial mice go definitely one of the better ones, along with specific Microsoft models as well.

Latency, CH said it pretty accurately. Reality is there is limited latency over the interface, it's all up to the design of the mouse electronics.

The product webwit specified is really handy. I have a generic ebay knock off equivalent which works really well, so I imagine a proper brand name one should work particularly well also.

[Oqsy]

Is there really any use for the serial->usb converter for someone that already has a serial port?  I mean, it's cool to know they're out there, but I wanted to make sure I wasn't misunderstanding the reason for posting that product here...

[kishy]

Is there really any use for the serial->usb converter for someone that already has a serial port?  I mean, it's cool to know they're out there, but I wanted to make sure I wasn't misunderstanding the reason for posting that product here...

Well, if you've already got a serial port (properly working, that is) then the need for a USB serial port controller is nulled.

That said, no modern laptops have serial ports and most people don't have the parts to equip modern desktops with them (they often have a motherboard header but don't include the port and ribbon cable).

Side note: I've got a small pile of those ports on brackets with ribbons...anyone who needs one fire off a PM to me.

[ricercar]

Not some, not most, but ALL my PS/2 trackballs have nearly unusably-slow tracking on modern screen resolutions such as 1280 and higher, even when set to maximum tracking on the Windows mouse control panel.

Tracking speed != latency.

[kishy]

I'm certain there's a measurable difference between Serial RS232 and USB polling, and nearly certain it's not perceivable by humans as latency.

This.

[ricercar]

This? That? The other?

((I really need to finish editing before posting.))

[kishy]

Glad to see I'm not the only one who makes a series of edits to the majority of my posts before I'm satisfied with them, lol.

Fortunately I quoted what I was...quoting.

[Rajagra]

Serial mice could have less latency because serial ports are interrupt driven. You might want to check in the BIOS to see if the serial port is properly configured and using an interrupt. Check the port's resources in device manager too. COM1 normally uses IRQ 4.

[Oqsy]

kishy: thanks for hosting that pic btw.  of note: mine doesn't have a logo on the top anywhere.  doesn't appear that its been removed, but that it instead came unmarked.  The only indication is the label above the roller on the bottom side with model number fcc id etc...

[kishy]

kishy: thanks for hosting that pic btw.  of note: mine doesn't have a logo on the top anywhere.  doesn't appear that its been removed, but that it instead came unmarked.  The only indication is the label above the roller on the bottom side with model number fcc id etc...

You're welcome (it's on a free host so may drop out from time to time. I'm slowly working on getting a server running from home 24/7)

That's normal. Logitech OEM'd a lot of mice.

I have Compaq mice that use the same circuit board inside as these Logitechs, with similar model names (S-S35 I think off the top of my head). If it doesn't have any logo on it, it probably was shipped with a clone-brand computer.

[microsoft windows]

Not some, not most, but ALL my PS/2 trackballs have nearly unusably-slow tracking on modern screen resolutions such as 1280 and higher, even when set to maximum tracking on the Windows mouse control panel.

Tracking speed != latency.

I've actually found some serial mice to be quite sensitive. My Microsoft one from the mid-1990's works very well even without being the highest sensitivity setting on a monitor running at 1280x1024. My PS/2 Microsoft Intellimouse 1.3a is sensitive as well.

[Oqsy]

Here's the setting I chose after playing with it for a while.  One click left of that setting is WAY too slow, but one click right doesn't really seem to make much difference.  I wonder if the mouse sensitivity settings in windows are logarithmic or linear...

[kishy]

Wow, that setting would be INSANE...

Speaking from experience here. I don't know what's with you people and saying old mice track slowly...in most cases they just don't.

[ch_123]

I should make a video of that old IBM 6450350 moving around on my desktop...

[msiegel]

[ricercar]

Hmm. I have fruit flies and no mantis. Something's very wrong.

[Oqsy]

Ugggh there are very few things in the world I find more creepy than a praying mantis...  Every erector pili on my arms and neck are contracted after watching that video.  The only thing I can think of off the top of my head that creeps me out more is E.T. (yes, that movie has scared the snot out of me since I was about 3 years old...  I could write an extensive paper on all the subversive and suggestive themes in the movie, but I'll spare you all for now.)  Now that I think about it, a mantis and E.T. have a similar head shape.  It's just terrible stuff.

[Rajagra]

For your Valentines Day Pleasure Reading:

The Female Praying Mantis:  Sexual Predator or Misunderstood

The most common courtship is when the male mantis approaches the female frontally, slowing its speed down as it nears. This has also been described as a beautiful ritual dance in which the female's final pose motions that she is ready. The second most common courtship is when the male approaches the female from behind, speeding up as it nears. He then jumps on her back, they mate, and he flies away quickly.

Not so different to humans, really.

[itlnstln]

Yep, hit it and quit it.