Author Topic: DSA CARBON??? (PBT AND DYESUB)  (Read 4550 times)

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Online potatobot

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DSA CARBON??? (PBT AND DYESUB)
« on: Thu, 30 March 2017, 11:45:14 »
One of the better looking knock-offs of one of the best selling keysets out there.

China has done it again, but now its better.







and some flipped ones



More info: https://world.taobao.com/item/545167829275.htm?spm=a312a.7700714.0.0.ZFkWFz

Disclaimer: I am not in any way connected to the vendor of these keycaps from taobao nor do i intend to host a GB of any sort. I respect the original designer of carbon and i hope this post doesnt offend him in any way.

Offline yinzer

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Re: DSA CARBON??? (PBT AND DYESUB)
« Reply #1 on: Thu, 30 March 2017, 13:29:40 »
"China has done it again, but now its better."

Really? Kind of looks like garbage to me. But, hey, if you have a hard-on for cheap knock-offs of a great design and skimping decent qc for the sake of convenience, then have at it.

Disclaimer: I'm not affiliated with the keyboard community in any way and I hope this comment doesn't offend the manufactures of this knock-off
« Last Edit: Thu, 30 March 2017, 13:33:34 by yinzer »

Offline hapakey

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Re: DSA CARBON??? (PBT AND DYESUB)
« Reply #2 on: Thu, 30 March 2017, 13:53:16 »
Mmmm.

PBT.

Offline zslane

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Re: DSA CARBON??? (PBT AND DYESUB)
« Reply #3 on: Thu, 30 March 2017, 13:54:35 »
Negative dye-sub.

I'm curious how consistent the dark grey coloration will be across all those keys.

Offline ceflame

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Re: DSA CARBON??? (PBT AND DYESUB)
« Reply #4 on: Thu, 30 March 2017, 14:01:28 »
I ordered a set when it was first posted yesterday, and it's already on its way. You can see more sample pictures from the original gb page, and it looked good enough to try (at least compared to the previous penumbra DSA). Base, numpad, mod, flex, warning signs, and novelty kits for about $200 shipped, not bad.

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Re: DSA CARBON??? (PBT AND DYESUB)
« Reply #5 on: Thu, 30 March 2017, 15:32:18 »
I still don't like DSA.
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Offline Krakob

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Re: DSA CARBON??? (PBT AND DYESUB)
« Reply #6 on: Fri, 31 March 2017, 01:16:59 »
It's certainly nice to see an inverse dye sub set being available! Not entirely my thing though
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Offline Niomosy

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Re: DSA CARBON??? (PBT AND DYESUB)
« Reply #7 on: Fri, 31 March 2017, 01:27:41 »
Curious to see how well those negative dyesub caps turn out but this colorway's not my thing so I'll pass.

Online potatobot

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Re: DSA CARBON??? (PBT AND DYESUB)
« Reply #8 on: Fri, 31 March 2017, 03:34:37 »
"China has done it again, but now its better."

Really? Kind of looks like garbage to me. But, hey, if you have a hard-on for cheap knock-offs of a great design and skimping decent qc for the sake of convenience, then have at it.

Disclaimer: I'm not affiliated with the keyboard community in any way and I hope this comment doesn't offend the manufactures of this knock-off

yeah, well their previous attempts to copy SP's DSA was not too bad, now we have negative dye sub which something we haven't seen in this profile.

So yeah its eye catching and appealing to enthusiast.

BTW, SP and GMK had QC issues in the past too, but we dont refer to them as garbage because they are expensive keycaps and should rule the market as known to all men.  :p

Negative dye-sub.

I'm curious how consistent the dark grey coloration will be across all those keys.

I know for a fact that you love your DSA, buy some and enlighten us  :thumb:
« Last Edit: Fri, 31 March 2017, 03:37:06 by potatobot »

Offline Niomosy

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Re: DSA CARBON??? (PBT AND DYESUB)
« Reply #9 on: Sat, 01 April 2017, 00:18:22 »
They should do something like Pulse DSA.  Might consider grabbing that one of the price is decent enough and up on a better website.

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Re: DSA CARBON??? (PBT AND DYESUB)
« Reply #10 on: Sat, 01 April 2017, 10:51:36 »
They should do something like Pulse DSA.  Might consider grabbing that one of the price is decent enough and up on a better website.

Proxies would be a good option, or wait for jchan to feature them on his website :D

Offline fohat.digs

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Re: DSA CARBON??? (PBT AND DYESUB)
« Reply #11 on: Sat, 01 April 2017, 12:20:15 »
Is there a way to see this in English?

How much is a base kit + numpad kit (aka Filco)?
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Re: DSA CARBON??? (PBT AND DYESUB)
« Reply #12 on: Sun, 02 April 2017, 20:24:14 »
Is there a way to see this in English?

How much is a base kit + numpad kit (aka Filco)?

you can use Google Translate  >:D

Select the kit by clicking image from label "颜色分类"

Base Kit: $74.04
Numpad Kit: $17.31

that's $91.35
---
other kits:
- Warning Sign: $26.04
- Novelties: $21.67

(price are estimation)
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Offline zslane

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Re: DSA CARBON??? (PBT AND DYESUB)
« Reply #13 on: Sun, 02 April 2017, 21:06:20 »
Unless you're absolutely in love with the DSA keycap family, I would say you're better off waiting for the real thing and getting in on Carbon round 2 on MassDrop.

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Re: DSA CARBON??? (PBT AND DYESUB)
« Reply #14 on: Sun, 02 April 2017, 21:42:08 »
I bought some just to check the quality

I also prefer DSA profile over SA.

I hope the texture isn't that different from SP's DSA granite, i really love those caps.

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Re: DSA CARBON??? (PBT AND DYESUB)
« Reply #15 on: Tue, 11 April 2017, 06:52:57 »
reverse dye-sub is real   :thumb: (or I guess this can be called "all-over dye-sub")

I borrowed these:
(left is DSA Carbon PBT dye-sub, right is DSA Wolf Mark ABS double-shot)
165426-0
165428-1

looking forwards to more detailed review from potatobot  ;D
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Offline bleik

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Re: DSA CARBON??? (PBT AND DYESUB)
« Reply #16 on: Tue, 11 April 2017, 08:35:42 »
is it just me or can't select and get to know the price of a basic kit (for 60%'s)?

great price but i wish it was on a better website haha

Offline ceflame

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Re: DSA CARBON??? (PBT AND DYESUB)
« Reply #17 on: Wed, 12 April 2017, 01:42:22 »



Got my sets in today. Definitely some glaring inconsistency issues with both the caps and dye-sub, but as an overall product, not bad. They feel and sound identical to SP DSA.
Once they perfect this reverse dye-sub process and fix inconsistencies, there will definitely be many more cool PBT DSA opportunities.

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Re: DSA CARBON??? (PBT AND DYESUB)
« Reply #18 on: Wed, 12 April 2017, 01:45:00 »
they seem to be thicker?

i had the chance to test out lingua from zfrontier too, the pbt dyesub was pretty clean, they had the same texture as enjoypbt keys. (i betting they were made by the same manufacturer)


anyways back to DSA Carbon. They sound and feel similar to SP ones huh?

Offline ceflame

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Re: DSA CARBON??? (PBT AND DYESUB)
« Reply #19 on: Wed, 12 April 2017, 02:03:28 »
Yep, the sound and texture is identical to SP's PBT DSA. The doubleshot ABS DSA cap I have is a tiny bit higher pitched.

The dyesub is definitely clean, but many of them are improperly aligned, have varying thickness, or are slanted.
Easily noticeable if you're looking closely, but during normal use I don't think it's a problem.

Offline yohanskee

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Re: DSA CARBON??? (PBT AND DYESUB)
« Reply #20 on: Wed, 12 April 2017, 04:37:22 »
Honestly it looks much better than Carbon SA imo

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Re: DSA CARBON??? (PBT AND DYESUB)
« Reply #21 on: Wed, 12 April 2017, 06:01:45 »
Honestly it looks much better than Carbon SA imo

I would buy them in a heartbeat if they came in SP's DSA :)

SA just isn't for me.

Offline zslane

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Re: DSA CARBON??? (PBT AND DYESUB)
« Reply #22 on: Wed, 12 April 2017, 16:08:55 »
Reverse dye-sub, or whatever you want to call it, holds a lot of promise, but it'll never be an adequate substitute for double-shot legends in my eyes. Not until they at least double the resolution of the process, which I don't think they can because the limiting factor in dye-sub legend crispness isn't the printer, but the molecular structure of the plastic.

Offline ArchDill

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Re: DSA CARBON??? (PBT AND DYESUB)
« Reply #23 on: Wed, 12 April 2017, 17:07:04 »
This is the most attractive DSA set since Deepspace IMO

Offline iceman2733

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Re: DSA CARBON??? (PBT AND DYESUB)
« Reply #24 on: Wed, 12 April 2017, 18:46:59 »
Show Image



Got my sets in today. Definitely some glaring inconsistency issues with both the caps and dye-sub, but as an overall product, not bad. They feel and sound identical to SP DSA.
Once they perfect this reverse dye-sub process and fix inconsistencies, there will definitely be many more cool PBT DSA opportunities.

Is the issues extremely noticeable or is it something you have to be looking for?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

Offline ceflame

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Re: DSA CARBON??? (PBT AND DYESUB)
« Reply #25 on: Wed, 12 April 2017, 19:20:50 »
Show Image



Got my sets in today. Definitely some glaring inconsistency issues with both the caps and dye-sub, but as an overall product, not bad. They feel and sound identical to SP DSA.
Once they perfect this reverse dye-sub process and fix inconsistencies, there will definitely be many more cool PBT DSA opportunities.

Is the issues extremely noticeable or is it something you have to be looking for?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

Not noticeable during normal use, at least not for me. Here's some top down shots of some of the keys. Slightly crooked key stems (even SP has this problem with their DSA caps though), varying thickness and dyesub offsets on the alphas. Backspace is slanted, which is a bit annoying. On the second picture, you can see that the "2" key is too low compared to the others. I only glance at my keyboard occasionally, and it honestly looks pretty good. So unless you're super attentive to detail, it probably won't bother you too much.




Offline ika

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Re: DSA CARBON??? (PBT AND DYESUB)
« Reply #26 on: Wed, 12 April 2017, 19:26:00 »
That looks like ****. Misaligned alpha legends, splotchy colors, terrible alpha legend color/contrast.

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Re: DSA CARBON??? (PBT AND DYESUB)
« Reply #27 on: Wed, 12 April 2017, 23:19:37 »
yeah that's like... really bad

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CONTROL

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;

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Offline Joey Quinn

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Re: DSA CARBON??? (PBT AND DYESUB)
« Reply #28 on: Thu, 13 April 2017, 00:27:15 »
yeah that's like... really bad

QWER

%
  5

CONTROL

@
  2

 :
;

I could go on, but I have to get back to what I was doing.

The alphas on that board are painful to look at  :))
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Offline T0mb3ry

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Re: DSA CARBON??? (PBT AND DYESUB)
« Reply #29 on: Thu, 13 April 2017, 01:25:06 »
Say what ever you want.

You get that you pay for. Thus the alignment issues or what ever.

Also i love there is possibility to get cheaper Carbon copies, for people who dont have that much money and i appreciate the availability. Everybody should be happy! However i will never accept some companies making money by stealing. That discourages other designers and makers. Just think about why this MK hobby jams this hard. Exactly most of you arent that hardcore MK fans. Without Designers and Makers you will see here only hardcore enthusiasts rocking vintage cherries, model ms on beige or dolch keysets. Copies should be always treated in a special way. In my opinion that should be never be hyped. But thats my opinion.

Thus saying - dont piss into the well, from which you are trying to drink.

edit: spelling
« Last Edit: Thu, 13 April 2017, 02:01:27 by T0mb3ry »

Offline PlasticSporkz

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Re: DSA CARBON??? (PBT AND DYESUB)
« Reply #30 on: Thu, 13 April 2017, 09:56:59 »
Say what ever you want.

You get that you pay for. Thus the alignment issues or what ever.

Also i love there is possibility to get cheaper Carbon copies, for people who dont have that much money and i appreciate the availability. Everybody should be happy! However i will never accept some companies making money by stealing. That discourages other designers and makers. Just think about why this MK hobby jams this hard. Exactly most of you arent that hardcore MK fans. Without Designers and Makers you will see here only hardcore enthusiasts rocking vintage cherries, model ms on beige or dolch keysets. Copies should be always treated in a special way. In my opinion that should be never be hyped. But thats my opinion.

Thus saying - dont piss into the well, from which you are trying to drink.

edit: spelling

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Offline zslane

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Re: DSA CARBON??? (PBT AND DYESUB)
« Reply #31 on: Thu, 13 April 2017, 13:11:48 »
It is simple capitalism. A demand is identified, and supply is created to meet that demand. If a DSA version of Carbon had been posted through MassDrop, I'm sure it would have sold very nicely, but that didn't happen. The fact that some Chinese company came along and filled the void was probably inevitable. That's not really the problem, in my view. The problem is that they didn't include the designer of the set (t0mb3ry in this case) in any of it. He should have been consulted, collaborated with, and allowed to participate (financially) from the sale. It is the fact that none of that happened that bothers me. There isn't even any simple acknowledgement of the original designer anywhere.

It should be evident by now to everyone here that t0mb3ry's creativity is being shamefully appropriated by an emerging market force that has demonstrated zero interest in honoring IP provenance. Anyone who knows the situation and buys that set anyway is no friend of this community.

Offline Niomosy

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Re: DSA CARBON??? (PBT AND DYESUB)
« Reply #32 on: Fri, 14 April 2017, 02:20:52 »
That the colorways have no real protection means the copying was probably going to happen eventually.  It was held off for quite a while due more to a gentleman's and ladies agreement to avoid copying the sets of other community members and we thus avoided the issue for quite a long time that way.  However, as more people bought mechanical keyboards, the market grew and with it would come the makers that are not concerned with copying if it nets them a profit.  We seem to have come to that point at least initially.

Offline zslane

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Re: DSA CARBON??? (PBT AND DYESUB)
« Reply #33 on: Fri, 14 April 2017, 12:43:30 »
Agreed.

Eventually you will only have designers doing this for the love of designing (and the desire to get their design out into the world and onto their own keyboards) and without any concern for financial profit or recognition. Because eventually that's all they'll get out of the work they do.

Offline Niomosy

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Re: DSA CARBON??? (PBT AND DYESUB)
« Reply #34 on: Sat, 15 April 2017, 01:28:24 »
Honestly, I think initial run of a given design might still be solid for designers but once a design is out there, the copy cat companies will likely take it and go so long as there's perceived demand for it. 

Offline zslane

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Re: DSA CARBON??? (PBT AND DYESUB)
« Reply #35 on: Sat, 15 April 2017, 11:21:32 »
This situation has driven designers like livingspeedbump to cease posting IC threads and CG renders of proposed keycap sets ahead of time. Now he just designs the sets and sends the kit renders directly to MassDrop. That way no Chinese knock-off artist can come along and beat MassDrop to the punch, as almost happened (and could still happen, for that matter) with Rocketeer. I am leaning towards adopting the same policy myself now. This new reality is changing the way designers communicate with the community, and not in a good way.

Offline digi

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Re: DSA CARBON??? (PBT AND DYESUB)
« Reply #36 on: Sat, 15 April 2017, 11:23:17 »
This situation has driven designers like livingspeedbump to cease posting IC threads and CG renders of proposed keycap sets ahead of time. Now he just designs the sets and sends the kit renders directly to MassDrop. That way no Chinese knock-off artist can come along and beat MassDrop to the punch, as almost happened (and could still happen, for that matter) with Rocketeer. I am leaning towards adopting the same policy myself now. This new reality is changing the way designers communicate with the community, and not in a good way.

BLAME THE CHINESE!!!!

Offline Niomosy

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Re: DSA CARBON??? (PBT AND DYESUB)
« Reply #37 on: Sun, 16 April 2017, 02:51:38 »
This situation has driven designers like livingspeedbump to cease posting IC threads and CG renders of proposed keycap sets ahead of time. Now he just designs the sets and sends the kit renders directly to MassDrop. That way no Chinese knock-off artist can come along and beat MassDrop to the punch, as almost happened (and could still happen, for that matter) with Rocketeer. I am leaning towards adopting the same policy myself now. This new reality is changing the way designers communicate with the community, and not in a good way.

Ahh true, some of the IC threads can last quite a long time before a set gets pushed to the buy phase allowing copycats to jump in before the original is even produced. 

Begun, the (keycap) clone wars have.

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Re: DSA CARBON??? (PBT AND DYESUB)
« Reply #38 on: Mon, 17 April 2017, 13:26:43 »
This situation has driven designers like livingspeedbump to cease posting IC threads and CG renders of proposed keycap sets ahead of time. Now he just designs the sets and sends the kit renders directly to MassDrop. That way no Chinese knock-off artist can come along and beat MassDrop to the punch, as almost happened (and could still happen, for that matter) with Rocketeer. I am leaning towards adopting the same policy myself now. This new reality is changing the way designers communicate with the community, and not in a good way.

Ahh true, some of the IC threads can last quite a long time before a set gets pushed to the buy phase allowing copycats to jump in before the original is even produced. 

Begun, the (keycap) clone wars have.

people have been cloning colorways for years

it's just that now that china is doing it quickly, people care
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Offline zslane

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Re: DSA CARBON??? (PBT AND DYESUB)
« Reply #39 on: Mon, 17 April 2017, 13:29:12 »
This situation has driven designers like livingspeedbump to cease posting IC threads and CG renders of proposed keycap sets ahead of time. Now he just designs the sets and sends the kit renders directly to MassDrop. That way no Chinese knock-off artist can come along and beat MassDrop to the punch, as almost happened (and could still happen, for that matter) with Rocketeer. I am leaning towards adopting the same policy myself now. This new reality is changing the way designers communicate with the community, and not in a good way.

Ahh true, some of the IC threads can last quite a long time before a set gets pushed to the buy phase allowing copycats to jump in before the original is even produced. 

Begun, the (keycap) clone wars have.

people have been cloning colorways for years

it's just that now that china is doing it quickly, people care

If it were just colorways that they were copying that would be one thing (which I wouldn't object to, really). But they are copying novelties and other unique elements of the design/concept.

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Re: DSA CARBON??? (PBT AND DYESUB)
« Reply #40 on: Mon, 17 April 2017, 13:31:35 »
which has happened before, and people got salty, but the sets still met MOQ.

in other words, unless colorways and designs get better protection, this isn't gonna stop no matter how salty we get
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Offline zslane

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Re: DSA CARBON??? (PBT AND DYESUB)
« Reply #41 on: Mon, 17 April 2017, 14:05:31 »
in other words, unless colorways and designs get better protection, this isn't gonna stop no matter how salty we get

You're absolutely right. The copying isn't going to stop.

However, it never hurts to point out that copying without fair compensation (or even recognition) is unfair to the designers we hold in such high esteem around here, and without whom we wouldn't have these keycap sets in the first place. My goal isn't to stop the copying, which would be impossible. My goal is to reach the folks in this community who are all too ready and eager to support the copying by purchasing these second-rate knock offs, no matter how it affects the designers.

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Re: DSA CARBON??? (PBT AND DYESUB)
« Reply #42 on: Mon, 17 April 2017, 14:15:48 »
something something there's no such thing as ethical capitalism something something

maybe that's just my hippy college talking
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Offline zslane

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Re: DSA CARBON??? (PBT AND DYESUB)
« Reply #43 on: Mon, 17 April 2017, 14:54:53 »
something something there's no such thing as ethical capitalism something something

maybe that's just my hippy college talking

You find it in places, here and there, if you look for it. For instance, neither MassDrop nor SP will allow someone to make use of another designer's work without that designer's consent. There is no law that requires this. They do it to foster healthy relationships with designers because it is the right thing to do, and sometimes, just sometimes, doing the right thing is also good for the bottom line.

Offline Niomosy

  • Posts: 1239
Re: DSA CARBON??? (PBT AND DYESUB)
« Reply #44 on: Tue, 18 April 2017, 02:04:13 »
Right now it's one company with an interesting product but lacking in quality.  I'm wondering when we'll start to see better products out of China going the same copycat route, though. 

SP isn't a huge concern as I'm primarily after the colorways.  For those that want the novelties, they can always recreate them or simply create alternatives to go with the colorway.