Author Topic: Thoughts on Kailh's box clickbar switches  (Read 30639 times)

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Offline Kevadu

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Thoughts on Kailh's box clickbar switches
« on: Mon, 15 January 2018, 04:05:43 »
So I've finally had a chance to try out all four varieties of Kailh's box switches that use a click.  While I'm sure you all have heard of them already, just in case here's a quick summary:
  • Box white - light spring, thin click bar
  • Box pale blue - heavy spring, thin click bar
  • Box jade - light spring, thick click bar
  • Box navy - heavy spring, thick click bar

That said 3 of the above I only tried at a meetup so my experience is limited.  I just recently but the pale blues in my K-Type and I'm still a bit on the fence about them (more on that later).  I am, however, intrigued by the clickbar design which is why I wanted to try all of these switches.

So in brief here are my thoughts:
  • White - Definitely a light switch, but the tactility is sharp, clean, and hard to miss.  Quite pleasant to type on in fact.  The sound is very high pitched but again it's a very clean sound.
  • Pale blue - Obviously I've spent the most time with these and the experience is exactly what you might expect: like the whites but with a heavier spring.  Most of what I wrote about whites applies here too.  Though honestly I think it might be too heavy...
  • Jade - On paper I actually thought this might be my favorite switch type, as I welcome the stronger tactility from the thicker click bar.  In practice, however, it was probably my least favorite of the bunch.  That's because the light spring seems to struggle a bit to overcome the thick click bar on the return, adding a subtle but perceptible lag to the switch's movement.  This made the keys feel almost like they were slightly sticky.  To be clear they never actually stuck and the keyboard seemed to work fine, it just felt that way.  Some people might not be bothered by it at all but personally it drove me crazy, and was enough to make me dislike the whole switch.
  • Navy - Great sound and amazing tactility.  Because it has a stronger spring I didn't feel any of that stickiness I felt with the jades either.  I wanted to love this switch, but make no mistake: it's a very heavy switch.  I think it would be rather fatiguing to use for a long period.

You may have already guessed this from my descriptions about but I think my favorite of the bunch was actually the whites.  This surprised me because it is unquestionably a very light switch, and lighter than I normally go for.  That's why I initially got the pale blues for my personal board in the first place.  Yet somehow the lightness just works for me better on the whites than most switches that I've tried.  Maybe it's because the tactility is so sharp and clean there is little chance of accidental actuation.  Maybe it's just that the spring in the pale blues (and navies) is just overkill and something more middle ground would be nice.  But anyway, it takes a bit of a lighter touch to type on the whites but it feels really good.  And because it's so light it's not going to be fatiguing at all even when typing for a long period.

Incidentally I have heard claims that the whites actuate before the click but at least on my pale blues (which I'm pretty sure don't really differ besides the spring...) I have been unable to do that even intentionally  I have tried pressing a switch as slowly and carefully as I could to try and hit that actuation point before the click and I literally can't do it.  The actuation and click seem perfectly coincident.  So I don't know what that's all about...

Anyway I was curious what others thought about these switches.

Offline Tom_Kazansky

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Re: Thoughts on Kailh's box clickbar switches
« Reply #1 on: Mon, 15 January 2018, 04:28:54 »
I initially have a... weird prejudice about the click-bar of the box white switches, I don't know how to explain that.

finally I decided to overcome that and try them.
I bought some switches for testing purpose and, as you said, their tactility and sound are surprisingly clean.

I have ordered more and plan to put them on a board.
but my current (clicky) board have 65g Korean springs on it so I guess the actuation force is about 60g? therefore, the box white is a bit lighter than what I want. I plan to sell the box white to buy the box pale blue. The box pale blue should be close to what I want.


after reading your review, maybe I should keep the box white  :rolleyes:

Quote
Incidentally I have heard claims that the whites actuate before the click but at least on my pale blues (which I'm pretty sure don't really differ besides the spring...) I have been unable to do that even intentionally

well, even the claims are true, there is no actual problems at all.
People are worrying too much, not that they can stop their fingers at the time of actuation and before the click. Not ever at high speed typing  :p

Offline Techno Trousers

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Re: Thoughts on Kailh's box clickbar switches
« Reply #2 on: Mon, 15 January 2018, 08:37:42 »
I've been curious about these for a while, so I appreciate your thoughts. I think the jade sounds best for me on paper as well (ergo clear is my favorite Cherry MX variety), but the lag you describe does sound frustrating.

Do these switches use a standard Cherry sized spring? I wonder if something like 67g Korean springs in the jades would help to overcome that issue?

Offline rich1051414

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Re: Thoughts on Kailh's box clickbar switches
« Reply #3 on: Mon, 15 January 2018, 09:28:07 »
I have jades preordered and I will report back if they feel sticky on the new batches. Honestly I think navy's are too heavy given the specs, I hope the next batch of jades have corrected the issues.
Siig Minitouch with Orange Alps, Whitefox 60% Zealios 67g, Realforce 87U 55g Topre, LFK SMK/Alps TKL With SMK 2nd Gen Cherry MX mount switches, NEC APC-H412 NEC Blue Ovals, Unicomp Model-M Spacesaver, XMIT Hall Effect, WASD Code Cherry MX Clear, KBDFans75 Lubed Gateron Greens, Azio MGK L80 Kailh Brown, XD84 Pale Blue Box Kailh, NIB Pingmaster TMK Converted, KPrepublic XD96 Blue aluminum case with Jade Box Kailh

Offline kmba

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Re: Thoughts on Kailh's box clickbar switches
« Reply #4 on: Mon, 15 January 2018, 09:41:05 »
I have tried all the box click bar switches, and my favorite by far is the pale blue.  It's the only clicky MX compatible switch I want to use and the only current mx switch period in my rotation (I like it a lot).  Dare I say, I think I like it better than most blue alps switches due to consistency.  Now, really clean, unworn, and non crunchy blue alps are still better, but finding or prepping switches like that is difficult. 

Anyway, I like pale blues because they are incredibly smooth, they have nice crisp tactility, and the spring weight is just right -- almost cushy.  I imagine this is what a clicky topre switch would feel like if they decided to make one.

Box whites are too light for me and they don't have that same cushy feeling after the click.

Navy and Jade are incredibly tactile.  The only more tactile switch is a pandastotle.. but those are shrill sounding and ratty.  One downside to these thick click switches though is that due to the high force needed to overcome the click bar, you inevitably bottom out harder than the regular click bars, which I don't like.  A second downside--and it's subtle--is I find they feel inconsistent depending on where you press the keycap.  Pressing on different edges and causing the stem to slide down at slightly different angles leads to a different feel.  Sometimes it feels like they're about to catch on the click bar, while other times they feel less tactile.  Not good.     

keyboards.

Offline pixelpusher

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Re: Thoughts on Kailh's box clickbar switches
« Reply #5 on: Mon, 15 January 2018, 11:44:43 »
I'm surprised no one has mentioned the speed bronze.  It was the first click bar switch they made and it's my favorite.   :p

Offline Puddsy

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Re: Thoughts on Kailh's box clickbar switches
« Reply #6 on: Mon, 15 January 2018, 13:20:36 »
I'm surprised no one has mentioned the speed bronze.  It was the first click bar switch they made and it's my favorite.   :p

yeah, i love the bronzes
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Offline carmenohio

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Re: Thoughts on Kailh's box clickbar switches
« Reply #7 on: Mon, 15 January 2018, 16:55:45 »
I recently put in Box Pale Blues in my daily driver.  Initially I thought they were too heavy too, but I am getting used to them and they are very pleasant to type on.  I prefer them over Box whites now, but initially didn't like the weight of the Box Pale Blues either.  The switches feel very smooth, and the clickbar click is more refined and sharper for sure than MX Blues.  The Box Pale Blues are currently my favorite clicky switch.

In Chyrosan's video review of the Box Whites, he mentioned that the Box clickbar switches activate before the click.  However, I think he is wrong and it seems the general opinion I've been hearing on the boards is that they activate AFTER the click as well.  I've tried pressing my Pale Blues ever so slowly, and it seems like the activation is always at the click, or I get the click and activation shortly after.

I haven't tried the Box Navy switches or Box Jades yet, but I have an order on the way for the Box Navy switches.  I don't think I will even try the Box Jades, after hearing so many people complain about the slow return issue due to the weak spring.
« Last Edit: Mon, 15 January 2018, 17:06:20 by carmenohio »

Offline Techno Trousers

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Re: Thoughts on Kailh's box clickbar switches
« Reply #8 on: Mon, 15 January 2018, 17:43:13 »
Okay, I need to admit some ignorance now. When you were saying light and heavy I was thinking in terms of Cherry MX (55g/80g). Now that I look it up I see that light means 50g activation, and heavy is 60g. I personally like capacitive buckling spring the best, which clocks in around 65g by my measurements. So my revised "paper" preference are the pale blue for high tactility and medium weight.

Now, the only missing piece for me is; do these switches get really heavy near the bottom, or is the spring itself mostly linear in feel? Thanks again!
« Last Edit: Mon, 15 January 2018, 17:45:42 by Techno Trousers »

Offline Kevadu

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Re: Thoughts on Kailh's box clickbar switches
« Reply #9 on: Mon, 15 January 2018, 23:33:08 »
I'm not sure I believe the official force curves.  Historically my most heavily used keyboard by far is a Model M which peaks at around 70g of force (before the buckle).  According to their official force curves the pale blues are also supposed to peak at around 70g of force.  Yet they feel significantly heavier to me.  Even in this exact same board I used to have Halo Trues in there which have a pre-actuation peak of only around 60g but of course their post-actuation force goes much higher.  And they feel dramatically lighter than the pale blues.  Of course they should be a bit lighter (if you're not bottoming out), but this is like night and day.

Offline rich1051414

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Re: Thoughts on Kailh's box clickbar switches
« Reply #10 on: Tue, 16 January 2018, 04:33:33 »
I have a set of pale blues, but I find the tactility nearly non-existent. The sound is excellent, and the weighting feels good(for someone who can enjoy stock clear switches), but the tactility feels less than even stock cherry blues. I am an alps fan, and I personally would not recommend pale blues if you like alps tactility. I am waiting for jades to restock, and I will report back then.

For a heavy switch, pale blues feel 'delicate', that is the best way to put it, and I think cherry switches are already 'delicate', but these go even further with the dainty feeling tactility but a very crisp and consistent click. They feel very refined, but I personally don't like the lack of tactility. It may be because the click is the tactility, and it is applied off axis on a switch that has remarkable stable stem wobble, but I simply can hardly feel it at all if wearing headphones. They almost feel like a linear switch. If deafened by closed headphones, even browns have more apparent tactility than pale blues, to put this into perspective, however, the tactility on browns is MUCH less consistent.

Pale blues definitely deserve the attention they are getting, they are great switches, but I don't think they will be for everyone. I am hoping the thick click bar version will inject some much needed tactility into them. I went with jades because pale blues are borderline too heavy, although it does actually feels pretty nice with light tactility, they feel very cushiony and not harsh at all. I could totally understand someone digging it. However, I actually usually like lighter switches, but 'light' is subjective. I find 60-65gf to be ideal, and jades land right in the middle, if the spec sheet is to be believed.

I hope the next batch doesn't have this 'stickiness' feeling I have heard about them. If that is the case, a spring swap isn't a huge issue. I also assume that a lighter spring will feel more tactile, as you will notice more when you leave the click spring. On pale blues, the spring is so heavy that by the time you leave the click spring, the spring is already compressed enough that you can't even notice a weighting change, hence the linear feeling to them.

I tried white switches on a friends keyboard, but I found the sound to be very high pitched with the clicking. Pale blues have a better sound, I assume because the heavier spring causes the plastic to ting at a lower pitch. Personally, I think pale blues rank as the best sounding cherry mx based switch, but still lower than alps switches. Alps sound is just so iconic, it's not even a fair fight. 
« Last Edit: Tue, 16 January 2018, 05:18:09 by rich1051414 »
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Offline mike-y

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Re: Thoughts on Kailh's box clickbar switches
« Reply #11 on: Wed, 17 January 2018, 11:50:39 »
I'm not sure I believe the official force curves.  Historically my most heavily used keyboard by far is a Model M which peaks at around 70g of force (before the buckle).  According to their official force curves the pale blues are also supposed to peak at around 70g of force.  Yet they feel significantly heavier to me.

Keep in mind that some switches are rated at actuation force, and others rate the spring at the bottom out force.  Cherry switches typically rate the force at the actuation point, while most other switches that use the common 62g/65g/67g springs are rated at the bottom out force. 

According to my tests using US nickels (5g each), a spring that bottoms out at 62g will actuate somewhere around 50g using a linear switch.  The type of switch affects the actuation force.  Also, clicky switches and the more tactile switches will also add a little bit of force to the keypress compared to using the same spring in a linear switch.

Offline Kevadu

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Re: Thoughts on Kailh's box clickbar switches
« Reply #12 on: Wed, 17 January 2018, 14:31:34 »
I'm not sure I believe the official force curves.  Historically my most heavily used keyboard by far is a Model M which peaks at around 70g of force (before the buckle).  According to their official force curves the pale blues are also supposed to peak at around 70g of force.  Yet they feel significantly heavier to me.

Keep in mind that some switches are rated at actuation force, and others rate the spring at the bottom out force.  Cherry switches typically rate the force at the actuation point, while most other switches that use the common 62g/65g/67g springs are rated at the bottom out force. 

According to my tests using US nickels (5g each), a spring that bottoms out at 62g will actuate somewhere around 50g using a linear switch.  The type of switch affects the actuation force.  Also, clicky switches and the more tactile switches will also add a little bit of force to the keypress compared to using the same spring in a linear switch.

Uh, I'm talking about the actual force curves I've found, not their 'ratings'.  I haven't even seen ratings for these switches.

Offline brainT

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Re: Thoughts on Kailh's box clickbar switches
« Reply #13 on: Fri, 19 January 2018, 05:49:22 »
Luckily Haata did force curves for them as well so we don't need to rely on Kailh's ones:

https://plot.ly/~haata/408

Offline rich1051414

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Re: Thoughts on Kailh's box clickbar switches
« Reply #14 on: Fri, 19 January 2018, 16:22:41 »
Luckily Haata did force curves for them as well so we don't need to rely on Kailh's ones:

https://plot.ly/~haata/408
https://plot.ly/~haata/417/novelkeys-box-jade/
Theres the 'sticky' feeling explained. The force curve drops to 0g on release, then increases again before dropping back to 0g.
Siig Minitouch with Orange Alps, Whitefox 60% Zealios 67g, Realforce 87U 55g Topre, LFK SMK/Alps TKL With SMK 2nd Gen Cherry MX mount switches, NEC APC-H412 NEC Blue Ovals, Unicomp Model-M Spacesaver, XMIT Hall Effect, WASD Code Cherry MX Clear, KBDFans75 Lubed Gateron Greens, Azio MGK L80 Kailh Brown, XD84 Pale Blue Box Kailh, NIB Pingmaster TMK Converted, KPrepublic XD96 Blue aluminum case with Jade Box Kailh

Offline Techno Trousers

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Re: Thoughts on Kailh's box clickbar switches
« Reply #15 on: Fri, 19 January 2018, 17:10:53 »
It literally stops on the upstroke?! How was this not discovered in preproduction testing?

Offline Kevadu

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Re: Thoughts on Kailh's box clickbar switches
« Reply #16 on: Sat, 20 January 2018, 00:38:34 »
It doesn't stop, no.  I suspect it's zero force because whatever tool is being used to measure the force is being retracted faster than the key is moving.  Therefore no force is applied.  The curve would probably change slightly if you moved the probe slower.

It is still a rather unusual feature though and this confirms my feeling about the switch.

Offline Puddsy

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Re: Thoughts on Kailh's box clickbar switches
« Reply #17 on: Sat, 20 January 2018, 01:30:25 »
It literally stops on the upstroke?! How was this not discovered in preproduction testing?

it was, but people wanted them so much that they made them anyway
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Offline brainT

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Re: Thoughts on Kailh's box clickbar switches
« Reply #18 on: Sat, 20 January 2018, 06:48:55 »
I've been typing on jades for 2 weeks now without a single with sticking and haven't been able to get one to stick when I've tried to.  They really are quite nice to type on.

Offline Techno Trousers

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Re: Thoughts on Kailh's box clickbar switches
« Reply #19 on: Sat, 20 January 2018, 11:17:53 »
I've been typing on jades for 2 weeks now without a single with sticking and haven't been able to get one to stick when I've tried to.  They really are quite nice to type on.
What is your typing speed? Any chance you could make a video of typing on it?

Offline brainT

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Re: Thoughts on Kailh's box clickbar switches
« Reply #20 on: Sat, 20 January 2018, 12:36:13 »
I've been typing on jades for 2 weeks now without a single with sticking and haven't been able to get one to stick when I've tried to.  They really are quite nice to type on.
What is your typing speed? Any chance you could make a video of typing on it?

I don't really track my typing speed at all so I don't have any comparison points and no good solution for video but I did find these on youtube:




Offline Techno Trousers

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Re: Thoughts on Kailh's box clickbar switches
« Reply #21 on: Sat, 20 January 2018, 13:22:36 »


I don't really track my typing speed at all so I don't have any comparison points

How about try typing these words a few times as fast as you can, and let us know how it goes:

balloon
bookkeeper

I'm not trying to mess with you, it's just that you're the first person I've heard say that you have no trouble with the Jades, and I want to explore that.

Offline brainT

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Re: Thoughts on Kailh's box clickbar switches
« Reply #22 on: Sat, 20 January 2018, 15:33:19 »
Gave it a go on the jades as well as a MX blue and clear boards and the jades don't feel as though they are having any problems returning.  They even feel as though they're coming back up more crisply than the blue's do.

I also touch type and don't rely on the switches to push my fingers back up.

I will say that if/when Mike finds a spring supplier for box switches and has ones that are at least 2 grams but no more than 5 heavier than the stock Jade ones I would switch them in without hesitation.  Just a touch heavier and I think they'd be perfect but they're pretty damn good as they are.

Offline pixelpusher

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Re: Thoughts on Kailh's box clickbar switches
« Reply #23 on: Sat, 20 January 2018, 15:37:32 »
I knew the navy box issue b/c i got an early sample but I thought I was just crazy and I didn't want the GB to fall apart.  I should have probably spoken up :(

Srry

Offline tanvir175

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Re: Thoughts on Kailh's box clickbar switches
« Reply #24 on: Sat, 20 January 2018, 16:00:10 »
I'm pretty hard on my keys when typing so I prefer heavier switches. Currently using Box Pale Blues in an MF68 and at first I thought they were a little too heavy but it was actually just because I was pressing keys off-center after having used a JJ40 for a little over a month. Readjusted in about an hour and these feel excellent to type on but I unfortunately am almost always bottoming out still.

I have Box Navy's waiting for an S65-X build (although now I'm not sure if I want to save these for the CA66 instead). The Navy's are soooo much nicer (using as loose switches). The tactility is much higher and the sound is LOUD but is amazing and crisp.

Offline Zobeid Zuma

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Re: Thoughts on Kailh's box clickbar switches
« Reply #25 on: Sat, 20 January 2018, 17:31:45 »
I haven't tried the Jades, but I have built boards now with the White, Pale Blue and Navy switches.  I liked them all, but the White switches were just a bit too light for me.  It was the first board I built, and it was good, but every once in a while I'd catch myself thinking, "Man, if only these switches were a little heavier…"

The Pale Blue switches were love at first tap.  They're close to perfect for me.  (Yes, I'm a sort of heavy-handed typer.)

The Navy switches I'm still getting a feel for.  They're very stiff, very loud, very tactile, but the impression they make is sort of "clunky" to me.  It's just too much.  I think Pale Blue is the sweet spot for me.  (Also worth mentioning, a few of the Navy switches were extra-stiff at first, but they quickly limbered up.)

Incidentally, months ago I got one sample of the BOX Burnt Orange heavy tactile switch, and I liked it a lot too.  I definitely want to build a board around those, but I've just been waiting and waiting for Kaihua to get their problems sorted out and get them back into production.  (OK, really I'm also waiting on the Banana Split 60 kits that I pre-ordered.  It would be nice if Burnt Orange returns by the time I get those.)

Offline rich1051414

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Re: Thoughts on Kailh's box clickbar switches
« Reply #26 on: Tue, 23 January 2018, 12:08:02 »
Navys and Jades are back in stock.
Siig Minitouch with Orange Alps, Whitefox 60% Zealios 67g, Realforce 87U 55g Topre, LFK SMK/Alps TKL With SMK 2nd Gen Cherry MX mount switches, NEC APC-H412 NEC Blue Ovals, Unicomp Model-M Spacesaver, XMIT Hall Effect, WASD Code Cherry MX Clear, KBDFans75 Lubed Gateron Greens, Azio MGK L80 Kailh Brown, XD84 Pale Blue Box Kailh, NIB Pingmaster TMK Converted, KPrepublic XD96 Blue aluminum case with Jade Box Kailh

Offline killyou

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Re: Thoughts on Kailh's box clickbar switches
« Reply #27 on: Tue, 23 January 2018, 16:12:34 »
Ahh this thread confuses me even more. As a Cherry MX Clear user soon to be converted to slightly lighter Zealio 78g which one would be best for me? White/Jade or Pale Blue/Navy? I like the idea of thicker click bar better but based on the posts I don't know what I want anymore, and until I read the thread it was Navy.

Offline Techno Trousers

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Re: Thoughts on Kailh's box clickbar switches
« Reply #28 on: Tue, 23 January 2018, 17:27:16 »
Navys and Jades are back in stock.
Back in stock where?

Offline llisandro

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Re: Thoughts on Kailh's box clickbar switches
« Reply #29 on: Tue, 23 January 2018, 17:53:02 »
Navys and Jades are back in stock.
Back in stock where?
Novelkeys sent a restock notification yesterday, but their website was slammed, i couldn't even get anything into my cart, and now they're back out of stock.

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Offline ander

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Re: Thoughts on Kailh's box clickbar switches
« Reply #30 on: Wed, 24 January 2018, 01:02:46 »
[I've moved my question to the Alps Appreciation Thread—it seemed too off-topic here, in retrospect]
« Last Edit: Wed, 24 January 2018, 01:05:14 by ander »
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Offline Kavik

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Re: Thoughts on Kailh's box clickbar switches
« Reply #31 on: Sat, 27 January 2018, 02:40:25 »
I just got my order of Box Navies. I've only tested them individually and in a 3x3 switch tester, but I like them quite a bit so far. Great tactility and LOUD. The weight may be just a tad too heavy (I can't believe I'm saying that), but maybe they'll break in a bit. They also have a snappy return, which I like.

They seem to reduce SA keycap wobble to a noticeable degree. It's still there, but it's not as bad, especially at the bottom of the keystroke. I will definitely be using these in my Moon build instead of the Gateron Greens I've had waiting for months and which just sound and feel anemic compared to these now.
Maybe they're waiting for gasmasks and latex to get sexy again.

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Offline rich1051414

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Re: Thoughts on Kailh's box clickbar switches
« Reply #32 on: Sat, 27 January 2018, 08:29:05 »
The weight may be just a tad too heavy (I can't believe I'm saying that)
I assumed this would be the case for me as well, so I got jades, they should be arriving today... or monday.
Siig Minitouch with Orange Alps, Whitefox 60% Zealios 67g, Realforce 87U 55g Topre, LFK SMK/Alps TKL With SMK 2nd Gen Cherry MX mount switches, NEC APC-H412 NEC Blue Ovals, Unicomp Model-M Spacesaver, XMIT Hall Effect, WASD Code Cherry MX Clear, KBDFans75 Lubed Gateron Greens, Azio MGK L80 Kailh Brown, XD84 Pale Blue Box Kailh, NIB Pingmaster TMK Converted, KPrepublic XD96 Blue aluminum case with Jade Box Kailh

Offline Sissy

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Re: Thoughts on Kailh's box clickbar switches
« Reply #33 on: Sat, 27 January 2018, 08:56:31 »
I've ordered some navies, going in with a total neutral mindset.

Offline Puddsy

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Re: Thoughts on Kailh's box clickbar switches
« Reply #34 on: Sat, 27 January 2018, 13:06:25 »
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Offline rich1051414

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Re: Thoughts on Kailh's box clickbar switches
« Reply #35 on: Sat, 27 January 2018, 14:54:51 »
They sold out like a few hours after they came in stock. Sorry if I got your hopes up.
Siig Minitouch with Orange Alps, Whitefox 60% Zealios 67g, Realforce 87U 55g Topre, LFK SMK/Alps TKL With SMK 2nd Gen Cherry MX mount switches, NEC APC-H412 NEC Blue Ovals, Unicomp Model-M Spacesaver, XMIT Hall Effect, WASD Code Cherry MX Clear, KBDFans75 Lubed Gateron Greens, Azio MGK L80 Kailh Brown, XD84 Pale Blue Box Kailh, NIB Pingmaster TMK Converted, KPrepublic XD96 Blue aluminum case with Jade Box Kailh

Offline _haru

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Re: Thoughts on Kailh's box clickbar switches
« Reply #36 on: Sat, 27 January 2018, 17:19:10 »
I recently got to try some individual Box Pale Blues and a board with Box Navies at the 2nd Perth meetup. To be completely honest I was extremely underwhelmed by both of them. The pale blue has the tactility in the wrong place and is far too high pitched. The box navy is sticky and similar to the pale blue, has a huge amount of tactility in the wrong place. At least for me, the claims of ALPS being made useless due to Box Navies are completely false.

For reference, my daily driver board has 45g retooled MX Whites, and I love them.
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Offline Techno Trousers

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Re: Thoughts on Kailh's box clickbar switches
« Reply #37 on: Sat, 27 January 2018, 18:55:47 »
The pale blue has the tactility in the wrong place and is far too high pitched. The box navy is sticky and similar to the pale blue, has a huge amount of tactility in the wrong place.
Well, that's interesting. I like Alps switches, with tactility at the very start, and ergo clears, with tactility in the middle, and probably love capacitive buckling spring the best, with tactility waaay down low. If only China Post would hurry up with my box heavy pale blues so I can try them out.


Offline floristfran

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Re: Thoughts on Kailh's box clickbar switches
« Reply #39 on: Mon, 12 February 2018, 14:37:48 »
I have some speed pinks that I use for my modifiers and numbers and I love them, idk if I'd want a full board of them though.... maybe the box navys

Offline rich1051414

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Re: Thoughts on Kailh's box clickbar switches
« Reply #40 on: Tue, 13 February 2018, 07:27:07 »
My jades got in today. I am in love.
If you made a list of everything I hate about cherry, and then made a switch that was absolutely the opposite of what I wrote, the switch would be thick click box kailhs.

I wasn't very thrilled with pale blues because I felt the switch was too linear with a very minor tactility overlaid. I don't like that, it's boring. These jades are very much not that. Nearly all of the tactility and weight is in the click, then the bottom falls out. The only switch remotely similar are alps switches, and even those aren't quite this tactile centric. Alps, however, do not feel nearly as nice, dare I say... The Jades have a non-wobbly yet non-bindy feel, and alps suffers from the bindy feeling, which feels clunky in comparison to the clean and crisp feeling of jades. I am sad even saying this, but I feel like alps is now less relevant.

As far as the keys feeling like they are slow to return, I am not feeling that on my switches. In fact, my white alps feel slower to return than these... Maybe that will change in time, but I will see.


The keyboard I tested them in are a garbage keyboard the I picked up for $20 that had hotswappable switches, but I have swapped so many switches, half of the keys don't work now.

My next keyboard was going to be a SMK keyboard(which is also cherry mx compatible), and I may instead use jade switches instead... I guess it depends on how much I like the smk switches, but it isn't looking good for them xD
« Last Edit: Tue, 13 February 2018, 07:30:19 by rich1051414 »
Siig Minitouch with Orange Alps, Whitefox 60% Zealios 67g, Realforce 87U 55g Topre, LFK SMK/Alps TKL With SMK 2nd Gen Cherry MX mount switches, NEC APC-H412 NEC Blue Ovals, Unicomp Model-M Spacesaver, XMIT Hall Effect, WASD Code Cherry MX Clear, KBDFans75 Lubed Gateron Greens, Azio MGK L80 Kailh Brown, XD84 Pale Blue Box Kailh, NIB Pingmaster TMK Converted, KPrepublic XD96 Blue aluminum case with Jade Box Kailh

Offline Techno Trousers

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Re: Thoughts on Kailh's box clickbar switches
« Reply #41 on: Sun, 18 February 2018, 12:16:20 »
I got my jades soldered into a QFR this weekend, and I'm in love as well. I have thick PBT caps on the board (/dev/tty), and there is no issue at all with spring rebound. I did use a box heavy pale blue switch under the space bar just in case, but I'm not sure if I even needed that. They are light, crisp, and exceptionally tactile. For those who like capacitive buckling spring and/or clicky Alps, you owe it to yourself to try the Kailh+Novelkeys box jade switches. In my opinion, these are far superior to any other tactile/clicky Cherry compatible switch available today. They leave my previous favorite 65g ergo clears in the dust.
« Last Edit: Sun, 18 February 2018, 12:18:45 by Techno Trousers »

Online Rob27shred

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Re: Thoughts on Kailh's box clickbar switches
« Reply #42 on: Sun, 18 February 2018, 13:12:53 »
Glad to hear mostly everyone is really happy with their BOX thick clicks. I just got a batch of 100 navys I'm about 90% sure I will be using for my upcoming ACR60 build. Messing with them loose leads me to believe they will be a very good switch for me. I like the high tactility & it's spot on the key press doesn't bother me, the click itself is just awesome IMO, & the weighting is right around my preferred weight (80g bottom out). In fact I liked them so much I went ahead & ordered a switch test from NovelKeys with all the other BOX switches that interest me.

Not sure what a whole board full of them will feel like to type on, but I highly doubt it would change the experience so much that I do not like it. I'll definitely report back here once I get them in a board & get some time in with them. :thumb:

Offline onlyabyte

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Re: Thoughts on Kailh's box clickbar switches
« Reply #43 on: Sun, 18 February 2018, 17:57:15 »
Kailh whites definitely sound good and judging from your overview, looks like they're a good clicky switch.

Offline Zobeid Zuma

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Re: Thoughts on Kailh's box clickbar switches
« Reply #44 on: Tue, 20 February 2018, 08:44:11 »
Glad to hear mostly everyone is really happy with their BOX thick clicks.

I've given them a good try-out now, and…  They're not for me.  They're just a bit too much.  I've gone back to BOX Pale Blue.  Also, I just finished building another keyboard with BOX Burnt Orange (tactile) switches, and it's very good too.  Some people like the clickies and some like the tactiles, but I don't know which I am because I like them both.

Oddly enough, I still haven't built one with a conventional click-jacket switch.  I plan to remedy that when I get a bag of Kailh Pro Heavy Sage (70g) switches.  One trait I do think is arguably better about the click-jacket is that it only clicks once per stroke, on the down-stroke but not on the release.

Offline MGMorden

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Re: Thoughts on Kailh's box clickbar switches
« Reply #45 on: Tue, 20 February 2018, 10:32:51 »
I'm currently using a board with Box Jades and I really, really like them.  The only key that I had trouble with sticking was the spacebar.  With the keyset I settled on the spacebar was too heavy for the spring to consistently reset.  A lighter spacebar solved the issue temporarily, and I ended up ordering a few Box Navies and switched to one of those on the spacebar.

Trying both side by side - I will say that IMHO, for most of the keys, Box Navy is just too heavy, and I'm someone who typically like heavier key weights.  Jade is is right at the perfect weight for me and for decking out a whole board I really like them.  If you don't want the thick click bar try the Pale Blues too as their weight is decent as well.
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Offline Techno Trousers

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Re: Thoughts on Kailh's box clickbar switches
« Reply #46 on: Tue, 20 February 2018, 10:58:40 »


I'm currently using a board with Box Jades and I really, really like them.  The only key that I had trouble with sticking was the spacebar.
Ah... I'm glad I went with the pale blue under the space bar then. Turns out I still need to take mine back apart, because I managed not to solder the caps lock LED properly.

Offline llisandro

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Re: Thoughts on Kailh's box clickbar switches
« Reply #47 on: Tue, 20 February 2018, 18:08:56 »
Any word about swapping springs on Speed switches (Box and otherwise)? IIRC swapping in MX springs didn't work on my coppers (too long).

Offline Techno Trousers

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Re: Thoughts on Kailh's box clickbar switches
« Reply #48 on: Tue, 20 February 2018, 20:06:05 »
Any word about swapping springs on Speed switches (Box and otherwise)? IIRC swapping in MX springs didn't work on my coppers (too long).
I've read others say it's an issue for the box switches as well. Cherry springs are too long, and Alps are too short.

Offline rich1051414

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Re: Thoughts on Kailh's box clickbar switches
« Reply #49 on: Wed, 21 February 2018, 04:59:36 »
I'm currently using a board with Box Jades and I really, really like them.  The only key that I had trouble with sticking was the spacebar.  With the keyset I settled on the spacebar was too heavy for the spring to consistently reset.  A lighter spacebar solved the issue temporarily, and I ended up ordering a few Box Navies and switched to one of those on the spacebar.

Trying both side by side - I will say that IMHO, for most of the keys, Box Navy is just too heavy, and I'm someone who typically like heavier key weights.  Jade is is right at the perfect weight for me and for decking out a whole board I really like them.  If you don't want the thick click bar try the Pale Blues too as their weight is decent as well.
Yeah, I have no issues with any key sticking except stablized keys. I ended up settling on costar with clipped inserts(similar to alps style), as this basically adds almost no resistance.

If you don't know this, the jade switches are so stable that most of the keys don't NEED stabilization to feel fine. On ansi layouts, the left shift, enter and backspace don't need stabilization. It's the right shift and space bar that need stabilized. I would recommend people use navy switches for stabilized keys to avoid issues.
« Last Edit: Wed, 21 February 2018, 05:03:57 by rich1051414 »
Siig Minitouch with Orange Alps, Whitefox 60% Zealios 67g, Realforce 87U 55g Topre, LFK SMK/Alps TKL With SMK 2nd Gen Cherry MX mount switches, NEC APC-H412 NEC Blue Ovals, Unicomp Model-M Spacesaver, XMIT Hall Effect, WASD Code Cherry MX Clear, KBDFans75 Lubed Gateron Greens, Azio MGK L80 Kailh Brown, XD84 Pale Blue Box Kailh, NIB Pingmaster TMK Converted, KPrepublic XD96 Blue aluminum case with Jade Box Kailh