Is this a rubber dome board?

[Mental Hobbit]

Rubber domes are garbage.

Yet approximately half of the members here consider a rubber dome with a spring under it the crown of engineering - and call this a mechanical keyboard. Can we be asolutely sure there's no other way to make a good rubber dome than putting a spring beneath and a $250 price tag on top?

Scissor switches I do have some hope for.  

What gives you hope? The plastic scissor around the rubber dome? Or the absence of those old stinkin' mechanical style sliders?

[elbowglue]

Recently I got a rubber dome board (the siig wintouch) which had a rather nice feel, better than some other rubber domes I have used.  It was actually quite close in feel to a topre, having a snap, nice keycaps.  It did not have capacitative switching however it was actually pretty close in my opinion to topre quality.

With this being said, I have tried two topres, however their technology cannot compare to brown cherry switches in my opinion.

Ripster had mentioned when he took the spring out, it still felt the same as it did before.  Thus the mystical topre is just a quality dome keyboard with different switching mechanism.

Not to create a flame war but I agree with hobbit, there are probably good rubber dome keyboards out there with feeling similar to topres.

Yet approximately half of the members here consider a rubber dome with a spring under it the crown of engineering - and call this a mechanical keyboard. Can we be asolutely sure there's no other way to make a good rubber dome than putting a spring beneath and a $250 price tag on top?



What gives you hope? The plastic scissor around the rubber dome? Or the absence of those old stinkin' mechanical style sliders?

[itlnstln]

I like girls.

[wellington1869]

I like girls.

i had sex with my topre.

[Otterclock]

i had sex with my topre.

Heya Wellington, did the Midnight Grey turn out to be different than the standard RT7d50? Thats the board that came with the generation of Dells I just installed at work (standard, not midnight). I like the RT7D20 better.

[wellington1869]

Heya Wellington, did the Midnight Grey turn out to be different than the standard RT7d50? Thats the board that came with the generation of Dells I just installed at work (standard, not midnight). I like the RT7D20 better.

yup, they're different alright. The midnight grey one  is better (not sure the model numbers). (the black one was the SK I believe).  I too first tried the RT when installing dells at work, lol.  I noticed right away that it was different.  [wait a minute, there's an rt7d20 thats better than the rt7d50? hmmmm. very confusing). Mine is definitely dark gray though.] Update: mine is the 7d50; the 7d20 is some ps2 board?

yea, dell doesnt make it easy.

I like the "gray" rt7d50. I was burned out from modding mechanicals, so I really just wanted a simple board that I couldnt mod even if I wanted to.

I just ordered an MS laser desktop 7000 after trying one out in the store. Its similarly crisp but with shorter throws. Might use that for a while.

[Rajagra]

Why are rubber-dome-over-membrane boards usually inferior? Because that is their raison d'être. Nobody builds such a board because it has superior performance or durability or feel. They are the state of the art of cheapness. They are the lowest common denominator. They are mostly crap because when a manufacturer wants to build a crap keyboard that costs nothing to build and sells by the containerload, rubber-dome-over-membrane is the only way to go.

They don't have to be built to a low standard, but they generally are. The choice of this construction is proof that price was a higher driving force than anything else for the design. And once that choice is made, it's a given that how well the board works will be driven by the limitations of the parts. They won't bother engineering their way around the limitations.

There are exceptions. The Model M proves that membrane switches can be made to function well and reliably. Topre proves that rubber domes can feel like precision-engineered devices. There are even relatively cheap dome boards that don't require bottoming out to generate the keystroke, so they have some after-travel.

But they are exceptions. Most dome-on-membrane boards are simply built down to a price. It is reasonable to expect them to be rubbish until proven otherwise.

[wellington1869]

But they are exceptions. Most dome-on-membrane boards are simply built down to a price. It is reasonable to expect them to be rubbish until proven otherwise.

well for my part i dont disagree with anything there in principle. I think we're just pointing out some of the not-so-rubbish ones.

[ch_123]

Can we be asolutely sure there's no other way to make a good rubber dome than putting a spring beneath and a $250 price tag on top?

Need moar capacitors.

[ch_123]

I'm suspect that they are similar to contrast ratios for monitors, or in the very least based on ideal situation tests involving the switch independent of a board and then guestimated. How many switches did they really click 50 million times to get that average? Who is really going to keep track and hold them to that? "Dear Cherry, I am sending back my G80-3000HPLDUÑLSYH because one of the switches failed after 47,875,342 strokes."

Oh sure the figures are probably played with, but the point I'm making is that when the same manufacturer's lifetime figures for their mechanical keyboards are several times higher than that of their rubber dome keyboards I think it's pretty conclusive that mechanicals are far more reliable than rubber domes.

Unless of course you're saying that these manufacturers test their mechanical switches to lesser extremes than their rubber dome keyboards so that the test results exaggerate the difference between the two, which I somehow doubt they do...

[low-fi]

This 'mechanicals vs. rubber domes' debate seems almost like the ever-going war between analog and digital recording.

I just bought Logitech Classic Keyboard 200, the cheapest keyboard I could find, because I needed a small and light-weight keyboard and also wanted a crappy disposable 'board to remind me how good my mechanical keyboards are.

I'm surprised. I've typed on this thing for a couple of days and really haven't had the urge to switch to a mechanical board yet. Okay, they ****ed up the placement of home, end, page up etc. keys, but this keyboard is actually quite ideal for 'everyday use', such as browsing the internet, instant messaging, writing e-mails and gaming. The keys feel surprisingly comfortable and they are SILENT. Sometimes I get a headache after typing on a Model M or blue Cherry G80-3000.. brown Cherries on my Filco are silent, but they do clack loud if you bottom out. I play in a LOUD rock band so my ears have become rather sensitive for unneccessary noise. This silent Logitech board seems such a relief. Its rollover matrix (or whatever) is better suited for gaming than Model M matrix, btw.

I don't care if the rubber dome technology is 'cheaper' than mechanical switches.
I don't care if rubber domes are somehow inferior to mechanical switches.
I sure would use a Model M if I had to type a big chunk of text, but I think I prefer a rubber dome board as my daily driver.

Mechanical boards are excellent to type on, but they never feel "transperent". You always feel like you're typing on some Infernal Machine of Death. When I use this Logitech board, I kind of forget its existance and I just transfer my thoughts to the screen.

I'm pretty sure I manage to destroy this 'board in less than a year, but right now I really enjoy using it. Point being, rubber dome boards sure ain't as bad some of you claim them to be. For the price.

[Otterclock]

Why are rubber-dome-over-membrane boards usually inferior? Because that is their raison d'être. Nobody builds such a board because it has superior performance or durability or feel. They are the state of the art of cheapness. They are the lowest common denominator. They are mostly crap because when a manufacturer wants to build a crap keyboard that costs nothing to build and sells by the containerload, rubber-dome-over-membrane is the only way to go.

Yes and no, I think. Cost reduction is a motive for pretty much all consumer technology. The entire goal is lowered cost with increased performance. The lower cost of new tech can't be used to measure its quality versus old tech, because they're two different technologies. We aren't talking about lower cost mechanical switches. Even then, typing experience is too subjective to quantify. There are people who prefer the more cheaply made Cherry boards over the Filco. Are boards that mount the switches on PCB done so because they feel it's superior to plate mounting? Seems like the motivation is cost, yet many prefer the feel it provides.

The lowest common denominator boards are rubber dome, but what makes them lcd isn't the switch technology. There are quite a few rubber dome boards that equal or exceed the price of mechanicals. When Logitech designed the DiNovo Edge, a board marketed to people willing to spend a premium on their input device, why didn't they make a mechanical board, if the typing experience is universally accepted as superior? Cost? The thing is more expensive than a Filco, and some mechanical boards are 1/3 the price.

I think rubber dome tech just lowered the floor. A board using Cherry switches can only get so bad, but then again they can only get so good. The variety of dome size, shape, material and surrounding components is near infinite. Topres show that very presence of rubber dome technology does not automatically spoil the product.

frankly if I were you I wouldn't have read all of that.

[kishy]

Not all of Taiwan can be cranking out iPad clones.

Tell me if you find a source for one, I'm interested...if only to give my money to a company that's doing something right: ripping off Apple.

[Otterclock]

I had a couple friends come to near fisticuffs in an argument about why one of them didn't like peanut butter.

I like when upon stating that you don't like a certain food, people ask "why?" wtf do you mean, why. It's because I don't like the sensation that occurs when I place it into my mouth.

wait a minute, there's an rt7d20 thats better than the rt7d50?

Yeah, I think it's better. The action seems sharper, keys less loose.

[ch_123]

There are quite a few rubber dome boards that equal or exceed the price of mechanicals. When Logitech designed the DiNovo Edge, a board marketed to people willing to spend a premium on their input device, why didn't they make a mechanical board, if the typing experience is universally accepted as superior? Cost? The thing is more expensive than a Filco, and some mechanical boards are 1/3 the price.

What Rajagra was talking about was lower cost to the manufacturer. They can sell them for whatever they want really, and make more profit compared with a mechanical switch'ed keyboard. Spend enough on marketing, and you can make your customers buy all sorts of ****e.

I think rubber dome tech just lowered the floor. A board using Cherry switches can only get so bad, but then again they can only get so good. The variety of dome size, shape, material and surrounding components is near infinite.

For one, you can say that about the individual components of a mechanical switch. Secondly, who cares how modifiable it is? The tendency is always going to be to go for whatever is the cheapest anyway.

Topres show that very presence of rubber dome technology does not automatically spoil the product.

Ehm, Topre switches are relatively different from rubber domes. A Model M has as much in common with a rubber dome keyboard as a Topre does.

[hyperlinked]

frankly if I were you I wouldn't have read all of that.

I had an epiphany today. I'm not Otterclock!

[hyperlinked]

>

[Otterclock]

why was there a camera on that guy? It doesn't seem to have the typical angle or view of a security cam. That's a cam just for him.

[low-fi]

why was there a camera on that guy? It doesn't seem to have the typical angle or view of a security cam. That's a cam just for him.

Apparently the guy needs monitoring.

[low-fi]

Oh, one more thing about the Logitech 200 switches. They don't seem to be usual full-travel rubber domes, but a cross between scissor-switches and traditional keys. I haven't removed any keys to reveal the dirty secret, though. 'Half-travel' kind of switches seem to be the trend these days. Microsoft Comfort Curve had those but that board feels like garbage. Logitech 200 feels good.

[hyperlinked]

why was there a camera on that guy? It doesn't seem to have the typical angle or view of a security cam. That's a cam just for him.

It's obviously a theatrical setup. You'll notice that his monitor was clearly not hooked into the back of his PC and his keyboard may have also been unplugged.

[Otterclock]

Oh, one more thing about the Logitech 200 switches. They don't seem to be usual full-travel rubber domes, but a cross between scissor-switches and traditional keys. I haven't removed any keys to reveal the dirty secret, though. 'Half-travel' kind of switches seem to be the trend these days. Microsoft Comfort Curve had those but that board feels like garbage. Logitech 200 feels good.

Have you tried the Logitech 250 or 350? I hear they have the same switch design, and was wondering how they compare to the 200.

It's obviously a theatrical setup. You'll notice that his monitor was clearly not hooked into the back of his PC and his keyboard may have also been unplugged.

ahh yes.

[Rajagra]

Two households, both alike in dignity,
In fair Verona, where we lay our scene,
From ancient grudge break to new mutiny...

[ch_123]

Win.

[Otterclock]

nice.

[wellington1869]

Two households, both alike in dignity,
In fair Verona, where we lay our scene,
From ancient grudge break to new mutiny...

raj, that was beautiful. I thought I was the only poet around here. but i welcome the competition


I'm looking forward to reviewing the MS 7000. It'll be my very first thorough dome-board review.

[Otterclock]

Kirk>Piccard

[Voixdelion]

Kirk>Piccard

Oh please.  Picard is the S***!  Makes bald soooooo sexy.

[Otterclock]

Oh please.  Picard is the S***!  Makes bald soooooo sexy.

Good point. I concede.

[handyrandyrc]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kpizVloYXPM

Everyone's favorite (not) keyboard.  Dell SK-8115 baby!