Author Topic: What would be your ideal keyboard?  (Read 21513 times)

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Offline mr_a500

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What would be your ideal keyboard?
« Reply #50 on: Wed, 05 May 2010, 21:32:09 »
Here's a picture of my Kaypro, in case people have never seen one and don't know what the hell I'm talking about:



Just look at those lovely double-shot keys.

Offline TexasFlood

  • Posts: 1084
What would be your ideal keyboard?
« Reply #51 on: Wed, 05 May 2010, 22:09:44 »
Quote from: mr_a500;179401
Here's a picture of my Kaypro, in case people have never seen one and don't know what the hell I'm talking about:

Show Image


Just look at those lovely double-shot keys.


From a land before time, when the lost race of luggables roamed the earth.

Offline mr_a500

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What would be your ideal keyboard?
« Reply #52 on: Wed, 05 May 2010, 22:17:28 »
Quote from: TexasFlood;179407
From a land before time, when the lost race of luggables roamed the earth.


The race is not entirely lost. Four of them survived and are living in my house. They're gathered in a herd, feeding off my electricity. They're endangered, so I like to keep them around, but if my electricity bills get too high, I'll have to kill one of the poor bastards.

Offline mr_a500

  • Posts: 401
What would be your ideal keyboard?
« Reply #53 on: Mon, 10 May 2010, 17:36:15 »
Quote from: didjamatic;179311
Ti99/4a... My first computer and my avatar.  :)



Your first computer was a shoe? Lucky you.
« Last Edit: Mon, 10 May 2010, 17:39:20 by mr_a500 »

Offline nanu

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What would be your ideal keyboard?
« Reply #54 on: Mon, 10 May 2010, 19:13:22 »
hmm, let's see:

- wireless and wired (plug in wire to also charge)
- no LED indicators
- NKRO
- branding, if any, on bottom
- fully realtime-reprogrammable (through software that communicates with keyboard; but imagine the security issues with this)
- ps/2 and usb

- small footprint/minimum bezel, optional case bottom with holes for mounting somewhere

- keycaps whose surface is harder than fingernails (some fancy nanotubey carbon?)
- as or more silent than scissor-switches
- programmable actuation force curve per switch
- self-cleaning mechanism? ultrasonic? maybe that wouldn't work at all with oily particles
- optional hydraulics (for dust shaking and tilt adjustment?)
« Last Edit: Mon, 10 May 2010, 19:15:41 by nanu »

Offline Rajagra

  • Posts: 1930
What would be your ideal keyboard?
« Reply #55 on: Tue, 11 May 2010, 09:32:56 »
Quote from: nanu;180825
- optional hydraulics (for dust shaking and tilt adjustment?)


This is geekhack, not gangstahack!


Offline itlnstln

  • Posts: 7048
What would be your ideal keyboard?
« Reply #56 on: Tue, 11 May 2010, 10:06:46 »
Epic pic.  I like the USB ports on the front.


Offline Input Nirvana

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What would be your ideal keyboard?
« Reply #57 on: Mon, 24 May 2010, 10:27:58 »
Quote from: ricercar;172927
1-The adjustable part can be implemented with rack rail sliders; I have some 7" sliders. The central portion will be immobile on a base, while the R & L keygroups will adjust.


2-The 'enclosurre' will be sacrificed for adjustability. I saw a photograph from The Matrix in which a Kinesis Contour was de-enclosed and the keygroups mounted near each other. Sacrificing the enclosure for adjustability will be the last step, and has a close dependency to how effectively my thumbs can use the trackball while my palms are completely stationary (as I use the Kinesis Contour today).


3-A previous experiment proved to me that I can't use a centrally-mounted tween-thumb trackpad without lifting my hands from my accustomed typing positions. I've been testing thumb-only trackball manipulation and have higher hopes.


4-An asymmetrica build with a small trackball on one thumb and a trackpoint under the other is a fallback plan. However a large ball and a symmmetrical design appeal to my aesthetic far more than this.



1-Like a Comfort Keyboard base setup?

2-The picture...is it the photo I use in my mod blog, or different? I'd like to see it (or any other related info...)

3-Thumb only will always be a problem due to dexterity issues :(

4-Rollermouse integration??
Kinesis Advantage cut into 2 halves | RollerMouse Free 2 | Apple Magic Trackpad | Colemak
Evil Screaming Flying Door Monkeys From Hell                     Proudly GeekWhacking since 2009
Things change, things stay the same                                        Thanks much, Smallfry  
I AM THE REAPER . . . BECAUSE I KILL IT
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Offline bhtooefr

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What would be your ideal keyboard?
« Reply #58 on: Tue, 25 May 2010, 05:21:11 »
Potential spam reported.

Offline ch_123

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What would be your ideal keyboard?
« Reply #59 on: Tue, 25 May 2010, 05:22:00 »
"Potential"?

Offline bhtooefr

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What would be your ideal keyboard?
« Reply #60 on: Tue, 25 May 2010, 06:28:59 »
Hey, I've been flamed on forums before for saying that sig spam was definitely spam.

Offline Morning Song

  • Posts: 90
What would be your ideal keyboard?
« Reply #61 on: Fri, 28 May 2010, 02:59:36 »
Well, i was futzing around on a planning out a mod project, and ended up getting carried away and designing my dream layout :D Sort of a nightmarish lovechild of a Northgate, an IBM 122key terminal board, and an a matias tactile pro. The ultimate anti-spacesaver.



I figure those PF keys would end up being multimedia/shortcut keys. And i have no clue what the key above escape would be, but the layout looked weird without it there.

All i have to do now is invade Kentucky and subjugate Unicomp. Muahahahahahaaaa!
Clicky keyboards and big trackballs forever!

Keyboards:
Buckling Spring: IBM Model M 1391401, Unicomp Customizer 104, PS/2 modded IBM Model F Terminal 6110668 (current favorite)
Cherry: Filco Majestouch 105 Blue NKRO w/ doubleshots
ALPS: Dell AT101W Black SNAFU (Silent No-longer; All Fukka\'d Up), Siig Minitouch KB1948 Geek Hack Spacesaver edition, Focus FK-2001 w/ WinKeys+XM Alps
Rubber Dome: Belkin F8E887-BLK, Silitek SK-6000, Logitech Internet Navigator Keyboard

Works in Progress:
Prism ATX N9 Keyboard w/ Fukkas (Clickleaf Donor), Cherry G80-8113HRBUS-2/02 Brown NKRO, Cherry G81-7000HPCUS-2/02 (Doubleshot donors), Unicomp Customizer 101 (Springs donor, needs boltmod)

Pointing Devices:
Kensington Expert Mouse 7, Wacom Intuos3 6x8 w/ classic pen

Looking to buy/trade for:Dolch Cherry keycaps, Northgate Omnikey (With Fkeys on top, or both top & left), IBM Model F AT

Offline noctua

  • Posts: 188
What would be your ideal keyboard?
« Reply #62 on: Fri, 28 May 2010, 05:18:52 »
huhh.. lots of keys, pleasing dark color scheme! You have a 30" monitor?
Selfmade Keyboard I (done)
DT225 CH Trackball

Selfmade Keyboard II (95% completed)
L-Trac CST2545W-RC Trackball

both use Cherry MX Blue switches, an Teensy++ controller and have an Colemak layout

Offline Morning Song

  • Posts: 90
What would be your ideal keyboard?
« Reply #63 on: Fri, 28 May 2010, 07:53:26 »
Sadly, no. Just 22". So yeah, if this were real, it would be wider than my monitor. But it's only been recently that i've had a monitor wider than my keyboard anyway.
Clicky keyboards and big trackballs forever!

Keyboards:
Buckling Spring: IBM Model M 1391401, Unicomp Customizer 104, PS/2 modded IBM Model F Terminal 6110668 (current favorite)
Cherry: Filco Majestouch 105 Blue NKRO w/ doubleshots
ALPS: Dell AT101W Black SNAFU (Silent No-longer; All Fukka\'d Up), Siig Minitouch KB1948 Geek Hack Spacesaver edition, Focus FK-2001 w/ WinKeys+XM Alps
Rubber Dome: Belkin F8E887-BLK, Silitek SK-6000, Logitech Internet Navigator Keyboard

Works in Progress:
Prism ATX N9 Keyboard w/ Fukkas (Clickleaf Donor), Cherry G80-8113HRBUS-2/02 Brown NKRO, Cherry G81-7000HPCUS-2/02 (Doubleshot donors), Unicomp Customizer 101 (Springs donor, needs boltmod)

Pointing Devices:
Kensington Expert Mouse 7, Wacom Intuos3 6x8 w/ classic pen

Looking to buy/trade for:Dolch Cherry keycaps, Northgate Omnikey (With Fkeys on top, or both top & left), IBM Model F AT

Offline ch_123

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What would be your ideal keyboard?
« Reply #64 on: Fri, 28 May 2010, 07:57:16 »
Quote from: porgo;179206
Das Kb Model 2 ... split like in the pic

Show Image




Offline bhtooefr

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What would be your ideal keyboard?
« Reply #65 on: Fri, 28 May 2010, 13:06:28 »
One that allows me to type "THE QUICK BROWN FOX JUMPS OVER THE LAZY DOG." with both shift keys held down.

Because anything else is utter crap.

Offline J888www

  • Posts: 270
What would be your ideal keyboard?
« Reply #66 on: Sat, 29 May 2010, 09:31:16 »
My ideal keyboard is the one I will be typing on 'Tomorrow'. Every time I find a KBD which matches my criteria changes.
Often outspoken, please forgive any cause for offense.
Thank you all in GH for reading.

Keyboards & Pointing Devices :-
[/FONT]One Too Many[/COLOR]

Offline Input Nirvana

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What would be your ideal keyboard?
« Reply #67 on: Fri, 04 June 2010, 10:12:08 »
Quote from: bhtooefr;186610
Potential spam reported.


Is that a reference to my sig I made a couple weeks ago with the manufacturer links?

If having the links is poor forum etiquette, I'll dump it immediately.
Kinesis Advantage cut into 2 halves | RollerMouse Free 2 | Apple Magic Trackpad | Colemak
Evil Screaming Flying Door Monkeys From Hell                     Proudly GeekWhacking since 2009
Things change, things stay the same                                        Thanks much, Smallfry  
I AM THE REAPER . . . BECAUSE I KILL IT
~retired from forum activities 2015~

Offline Input Nirvana

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What would be your ideal keyboard?
« Reply #68 on: Fri, 04 June 2010, 10:26:17 »
Quote from: bhtooefr;186614
Hey, I've been flamed on forums before for saying that sig spam was definitely spam.


I thought maybe this in reference to my sig due to it's timing and placement. I'm not much of a forum junkie, and am not very familiar with all nuances of what may/may not be acceptable. I can see how links might not be smiled upon.

Don't want to step on any of your protocols :)
Kinesis Advantage cut into 2 halves | RollerMouse Free 2 | Apple Magic Trackpad | Colemak
Evil Screaming Flying Door Monkeys From Hell                     Proudly GeekWhacking since 2009
Things change, things stay the same                                        Thanks much, Smallfry  
I AM THE REAPER . . . BECAUSE I KILL IT
~retired from forum activities 2015~

Offline bhtooefr

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What would be your ideal keyboard?
« Reply #69 on: Fri, 04 June 2010, 14:13:38 »
Nah, it was someone that made an account to advertise cabinets or something. Suggestion: When you delete spam, delete the comments about it, too, or edit the comments to say that the spam is gone now.

Offline Input Nirvana

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What would be your ideal keyboard?
« Reply #70 on: Fri, 04 June 2010, 18:51:41 »
Oh, you didn't want to buy my made-in-China-lead-tainted-human-rights-abuse-cabinets?

Noted for future reference.
Kinesis Advantage cut into 2 halves | RollerMouse Free 2 | Apple Magic Trackpad | Colemak
Evil Screaming Flying Door Monkeys From Hell                     Proudly GeekWhacking since 2009
Things change, things stay the same                                        Thanks much, Smallfry  
I AM THE REAPER . . . BECAUSE I KILL IT
~retired from forum activities 2015~

Offline zefrer

  • Posts: 299
What would be your ideal keyboard?
« Reply #71 on: Wed, 22 September 2010, 09:40:19 »
Quote from: noctua;173395
splitted keyboard like kinesis contoured, with blue mx-switches and keypads arranged by an angel of 20-22°, flat not curved, also the thumb keys should be re-arranged! ..of course a trackpad or trackball located between the two keypads would be fine..

..more..in due time..


I got completely the wrong idea when I read "by an angel of 20-22, flat not curved" :D

Although an angel of 20-22 along with a keyboard is not such a bad marketing idea.

Offline keyboardlover

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What would be your ideal keyboard?
« Reply #72 on: Wed, 22 September 2010, 11:56:57 »
Probably a dark gray Realforce 104 or 105 key with all 55g weighted keys and white (or some other light colored) lettering. And an 87 key version to go with it :D

Offline NewbieOneKenobi

  • Posts: 634
What would be your ideal keyboard?
« Reply #73 on: Wed, 22 September 2010, 15:19:53 »
Switches
In short, a parameter-adjustable metal scissors mechanism with a spring to hit a hammer to hit something nice. Able to be repaired, replaced, cleaned and greased in home conditions.

Layout
No clutter. No non-standard key locations, BUT:

- PrtSc, Scroll Lock and Pause could removed or retained under their historical names but made programmable.
- Insert key should have a LED (for text editors).
- LEDS for Locks should be higher on the bezel, with a row of programmable keys above the numerical section instead.
- No right Windows key, no ALT+SPACE key.
- Plus sign, minus sign, slash and asterisk are enough once--either location could be replaced with something more useful.
- I wouldn't order this for myself but some people are used to typing digits from the numerical keyboard (e.g. my mother)--therefore they don't really need the horizontal digity row, which could be used for something different (function keys come to mind);
- Some folks don't ever use at least some of the functionalities of the numerical section, e.g. I only use Num Lock to turn off the LED, the Enter key and the maths operator keys; I wouldn't mind having the option to custom-swap them for something else (I don't even necessarily mean programmable).

Here's what I'd find useful from my own point of view (I don't necessarily need them hardware; simple Windows binds would be enough):

- Additional keys with advanced and foreign punctuation marks (e.g. French quotations, Spanish exclamation and question marks etc.)--three per key (SHIFT and ALT combos), so this shouldn't take too much space.
- § sign right on the board (very important feature in legal texts, particularly those from the continental legal tradition because common law can do without it). It's so annoying to have to type ALT+0167 all the time (many programs execute it with a leftward cursor movement to make it worse and text editors can jump the cursor to the next paragraph!).
- Separate modifier keys (i.e. like the AltGr key) for the most popular types of modifications of Latin letters (accents, umlauts etc.) or at least "dead" keys (what you press before to alter the next char that comes out). For example you could squeeze four where LEDS normally are or put them on the bezel, whatever.

Note that the dead keys can be achieved to some extent with programmable keys at least for use in Microsoft Office because Microsoft Office uses dead keys fur such purposes.

I suppose one could also rebind the numerical keyboard or the PrtSc, Scroll Lock and Pause in a software way. I don't know about that. (Please let me know if you do.)

I believe volume control and the like could be done by e.g. putting tiny wheel switches (or +/-) on the side. I wouldn't mind. It would be my personal preference to use something that looks like a bona fide volume wheel because volume keys hurt my sensibilities and so do excessive macro keys with software binds. ;) Just a bit of a reactionary sentiment on my part. ;)

Connector
PS/2, USB on option since this thing would cost enough to be shipped on demand only anyway. There should be an option to purchase a dedicated and tested active converted for the other port. Firewire or some other port on option.

Cordless version
The wireless version available on option should be equipped with adequate protections to prevent any deterioration whatsoever in response/accuracy. Integrated charger plus detachable cable for power grid connection. Backup chamber for a backup pair of batteries for a seamless switch. Acoustic and visual low power warning (e.g. green/yellow/red LED separately for main and emergency pair of batteries). Detachable cable to allow the wireless user to skip the wireless whenever he should want to. IRDA/Bluetooth on option (or even both included).

Jacks and ports
Only if there's no pooling of any kind of thing.

Casing
Solid, not yielding under typing fingers, good acoustic designs. Only Philips screws or screwless. Variable colours (e.g. with rarer ones on demand but always at least white and black). Heavy. No fake chrome or anything that will go off.

Water resistance etc.
Yes, please. And good enough design and workmanship to avoid unnecessary exposition to easily avoidable mechanical and other damage (e.g. by economising on anything that's cheap anyway).

Spare parts
Easy replaceability of parts and spare part availability (no extended waiting or non-identical replacements). Warnings against non-obvious ways of damaging the keyboard (e.g. don't use this or that detergent, don't try to pry this or that off etc.)--paper manual and working URL.

Manufacturer logo[/n]
Stylish and matching (e.g. no white backgrounds if the keyboard is black).

Custom dedications and captions on demand
E.g. "From Mum", "Coder of the Year", "Litigation Department".

Trackball
Cost-effective ergonomically placed trackball e.g. above function keys, centre or left/right on option. Solely to avoid unnecessary hand movement onto the mouse. Wouldn't mind a touchpad option but wouldn't order it either.

Offline chrs

  • Posts: 25
What would be your ideal keyboard?
« Reply #74 on: Wed, 22 September 2010, 15:39:58 »
Yes, parameter-adjustable keys!
a) "preload" force (force needed to start motion).
b) slope of force vs. position (spring constant).
c) amount of tactile feedback at actuation point.
d) travel to actuation point.
e) travel beyond actuation point.
f) abrupt vs. gradual bottoming at end of travel.

Offline quadibloc

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What would be your ideal keyboard?
« Reply #75 on: Wed, 22 September 2010, 16:44:59 »
Quote from: zefrer;225373
Although an angel of 20-22 along with a keyboard is not such a bad marketing idea.
Usually, a keyboard is inclined at an angle of 10°-12°, however. On the other hand, an angel 20 to 22 years in age is something one has to find on one's own...

Offline kps

  • Posts: 410
What would be your ideal keyboard?
« Reply #76 on: Thu, 23 September 2010, 17:01:25 »
[H=3]Layout[/H]

My current layout on Kinesis contoured keyboards is:



(Colours are for illustration, not the keys themselves.)

I use vi, hence the large thumb ESC symmetrical with Return.

First, I want additional modifier keys. Besides Control (for generating ASCII control characters), GUI (for menu shortcuts - Command on the Mac, Meta in X), and AltGr (for extended characters; Option on the Mac, Level 3 Shift in X), I want a separate modifier for code extension in vim (mostly for cscope), and another for window manager operations, to avoid using the mouse much. These must be symmetrically available to both hands.

Second, the function keys should be proper keys, although I don't use them much.

My current plan (with some keys still unassigned) is roughly this:



The curvature will be slightly tighter than Kinesis', since I have stubby fingers, and the thumb block probably tilted slightly to reduce the reach. I'm currently prototyping this.

The two halves will be separate and have adjustable tilt in all axes with a locking ball or u-joint mount at the back.

[H=3]Keycaps[/H]

My ideal keyboard would have heavy double-shot keycaps with dished (roughly spherical, rather than cylindrical) tops, Selectric-style.

My current compromise is to use blank spherical profile keycaps, Signature's type DSA, which are scheduled to be made at the end of the month. I have no idea yet how or whether I will label them.

[H=3]Switches[/H]

Ideally, I want a sharp tactile response like buckling springs. However, I'd like slightly lower force, minimal pre-travel, and much longer available post-travel with progressively increasing force so I never bottom out.



Of course, these keys don't exist, and won't until I'm a zillionaire.

As a practical matter, I'm going to use hybrid ALPS switches with AEKII rubber-baby-buggy-bumper stems, and springs still to be determined. I've been looking into some kind of damped flexible mount for the switches to reduce the impact of bottoming out, but that will probably come to nothing.

Offline Arc'xer

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What would be your ideal keyboard?
« Reply #77 on: Thu, 23 September 2010, 17:28:05 »
Quote from: kps;225974
[H=3]Switches[/H]

Ideally, I want a sharp tactile response like buckling springs. However, I'd like slightly lower force, minimal pre-travel, and much longer available post-travel with progressively increasing force so I never bottom out.



Of course, these keys don't exist, and won't until I'm a zillionaire.

As a practical matter, I'm going to use hybrid ALPS switches with AEKII rubber-baby-buggy-bumper stems, and springs still to be determined. I've been looking into some kind of damped flexible mount for the switches to reduce the impact of bottoming out, but that will probably come to nothing.

That switch diagram reminds me a lot of the Beam-spring diagram linear travel starting at 25g, sharp tactile at 50-50g(blue-like) and ending with a heavy resistance of around 80-100.

Offline ch_123

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What would be your ideal keyboard?
« Reply #78 on: Thu, 23 September 2010, 17:52:45 »
That was the force graph for the original buckling spring, which was never used.

The Beam Spring has a slightly shorter than average travel, and its tactile point is near the end. It doesn't really bottom out hard because of the fact that the actuator pulls upwards, instead of pushing down on something.

Offline ricercar

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What would be your ideal keyboard?
« Reply #79 on: Thu, 23 September 2010, 19:38:05 »
The extra key on the "outside" of each thumb group would interfere with reaching the "inside" thumb keys, or require one to lift the palm higher for the thumb to reach inside keys. I'd suggest an extra key "below" each thumb group instead.

I trolled Geekhack and all I got was an eponymous SPOS.

Offline noctua

  • Posts: 188
What would be your ideal keyboard?
« Reply #80 on: Fri, 24 September 2010, 02:06:25 »
Quote from: zefrer;225373
I got completely the wrong idea when I read "by an angel of 20-22, flat not curved" :D

Although an angel of 20-22 along with a keyboard is not such a bad marketing idea.


lol.. after an reasonable test phase the flat variant is not so good..
for longer typing sessions of course ;-)
Selfmade Keyboard I (done)
DT225 CH Trackball

Selfmade Keyboard II (95% completed)
L-Trac CST2545W-RC Trackball

both use Cherry MX Blue switches, an Teensy++ controller and have an Colemak layout

Offline Senor_Cartmenez

  • Posts: 264
What would be your ideal keyboard?
« Reply #81 on: Fri, 24 September 2010, 04:53:30 »
Either:

A Deck Legend tenkeyless with German layout and media keys (few would suffice, most importantly sound off, increase/decrease volume). Choice between blues,blacks,reds and browns/clears AND 3 different fonts to choose from, all of course those kinda double shots that Deck makes: classic "LotR" Deck font, standard 0815 "Cherry" font, another unique font (but please not the "Tron" style from the iOne / black widow)

Or:

A Filco tenkeyless with double shot keys, some neat LED lighting and media keys (few would suffice, most importantly sound off, increase/decrease volume). Oh and German layout.

Or:
A Deck 82, German layout, media keys (see above), choice between blues, blacks, reds and browns/clears and the fonts ;)

Offline kps

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What would be your ideal keyboard?
« Reply #82 on: Fri, 24 September 2010, 10:48:10 »
Quote from: ricercar;226042
The extra key on the "outside" of each thumb group would interfere with reaching the "inside" thumb keys, or require one to lift the palm higher for the thumb to reach inside keys. I'd suggest an extra key "below" each thumb group instead.


That's a possibility, though from my experience with the Kinesiseses, the position I show seems easier to reach. Space and backspace are the thumb home keys, so it's like the Z row for the fingers. It may be different if I tilt the thumb group, though. Maybe I'll add both, and see which gets used -- I do have electrical room to add two keys to the thumb "column".

Offline quadibloc

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What would be your ideal keyboard?
« Reply #83 on: Sat, 25 September 2010, 08:54:15 »
My idea of an ideal keyboard has already been expressed, at least in bits and pieces, in other threads. It's an impossibly extravagant and impractical idea, however.

It would be a beam spring keyboard, so as to have the best possible tactile feedback.

The layout would preferably be similar to that of the console keyboard of the IBM System/32. That is, a classic Selectric layout with a large Enter key.

The keys would be old-style cupped keys with centered legends, instead of PC-style cylinder keys with left-justified legends.

The keyboard would be able to be connected to a Macintosh or to a Sun workstation in addition to a Wintel box. The keys would be programmable. There would be several preprogrammed setups, and included among those setups would be an option to behave like a 122-key terminal emulation keyboard.

I want to have the Windows keys, but I don't want them to be in the way. I want a numeric keypad, but I want the keyboard to be compact. Attempting to reconcile these conflicting criteria, I end up with a layout like this:



which, for good reasons, probably nobody would like - so I'm still at the drawing board (and now I've improved it a bit, bringing it closer to the standard arrangement).
« Last Edit: Sat, 25 September 2010, 09:37:21 by quadibloc »

Offline Findecanor

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What would be your ideal keyboard?
« Reply #84 on: Sat, 25 September 2010, 09:37:58 »
I have been toying with the idea of a split keyboard with a layout similar to µTron but more curved although not as much as a Kinesis. The Tab and Enter keys should be towards the center struck by the index fingers.
All alphanumeric keys, Enter, Tab, etc. should be struck by fingers and be clicky almost like buckling springs, actuate at a quite low force but have a very deep travel with increasing resistance so that I never bottom out.
All modifier keys should be thumb-keys and be linear, like a Cherry MX Black.
Arrow/navigation keys should be on a third separate keyboard with switches that are only tactile, like cream ALPS.
Each of the two main keyboard parts should be a USB keyboard on its own and have a USB hub so that you can choose to connect either Left->Right->host or Right->Left->Host.
🍉

Offline vicz

  • Posts: 32
What would be your ideal keyboard?
« Reply #85 on: Sat, 25 September 2010, 23:01:20 »
My dream keyboard has a layout pretty similar to the Canon Cat (near bottom of page). Replace the big key in the upper right with two normal-sized keys (a la HHKB), cut the dangling bit off the Enter key and restore Right shift to its normal size. Add the usual complement of arrow and function keys, in their usual layout, and you've got something really nice. (Once again, Jef Raskin was there long before us.)

Mapping: backspace above Enter, as on the HHKB. Ctrl left of A, of course. The two red "leap" keys, in easy reach of the thumbs, would be Escape and AltGr for me (I use vim and type on a French Canadian keyboard), but non-vi users could try mapping one of them as Backspace.

Switches: my dream keyboard has Canon AP-800 series typewriter keyswitches, which is probably what the Cat keyboard already has, being contemporary with those typewriters.

Offline msiegel

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What would be your ideal keyboard?
« Reply #86 on: Sun, 26 September 2010, 00:29:22 »
a compact symmetric colemak board with model F switches.
sandwiched between steel plates instead of in a case.


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Offline msiegel

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What would be your ideal keyboard?
« Reply #87 on: Sun, 26 September 2010, 00:38:09 »
slowwwly but surely :)

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Offline msiegel

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What would be your ideal keyboard?
« Reply #88 on: Sun, 26 September 2010, 01:12:03 »
yes, it's a long story :D

about the layout: i'm beginning to understand the appeal of the vi editor, and wanted to rely less on dedicated special-function keys. the green keys are user assignable, so arrows are one good use.

the rest of the story is... while trying to absorb enough about analog electronics to implement a new sensor circuit for model f switches, i started learning colemak on a qwerty layout. but then realized the staggering is reversed for the left hand! :( so i didn't want to make a standard-layout board, it has to be symmetric.

unfortunately, haven't had time for hardware hacking since last fall, but i've gradually tidied up a symmetric colemak layout, and as of now i'm back to needing to figure out a sensor design. i'm sure it's do-able, i'm just not really an electronics guy, so it is slow going :)

if the electronics do go well, then i'll seriously consider having steel plates laser cut. i can probably handle the pcb, foam, and gasket rubber myself ;)

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Offline Findecanor

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What would be your ideal keyboard?
« Reply #89 on: Sun, 26 September 2010, 07:13:10 »
Quote from: vicz;226856
My dream keyboard has a layout pretty similar to the Canon Cat (near bottom of page).

I have also seen pictures of several Japanese keyboards with what I suppose are a pair of Kana keys below the space bar, as opposed to being on the space bar's sides. One of them was for FM Towns, but I don't know if there are any that are PC-compatible.
BTW. There are also a few pics of the Canon Cat's keyboard in its Wikipedia entry
🍉

Offline JBert

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What would be your ideal keyboard?
« Reply #90 on: Sun, 26 September 2010, 07:34:16 »
Quote from: msiegel;226877
yes, it's a long story :D

about the layout: i'm beginning to understand the appeal of the vi editor, and wanted to rely less on dedicated special-function keys. the green keys are user assignable, so arrows are one good use.
The problem is that while vi may well do without all those extra keys, it's all those other programs out there that rely on them.
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Offline msiegel

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What would be your ideal keyboard?
« Reply #91 on: Sun, 26 September 2010, 11:08:53 »
Quote from: JBert;226910
The problem is that while vi may well do without all those extra keys, it's all those other programs out there that rely on them.

that's what Fn is for :)

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Offline microsoft windows

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What would be your ideal keyboard?
« Reply #92 on: Sun, 26 September 2010, 17:40:51 »
To tell you guys the truth, the ideal keyboard for me would just be a run-of-the-mill Model M. I'm happy with the layout and love the feel of the buckling springs.
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Offline iMav

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What would be your ideal keyboard?
« Reply #93 on: Sun, 26 September 2010, 22:10:34 »
Quote from: microsoft windows;227086
To tell you guys the truth, the ideal keyboard for me would just be a run-of-the-mill Model M. I'm happy with the layout and love the feel of the buckling springs.


Have you typed on a Model F?

Offline quadibloc

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What would be your ideal keyboard?
« Reply #94 on: Sun, 26 September 2010, 22:49:38 »
Quote from: iMav;227143
Have you typed on a Model F?
I've used both kinds of original IBM keyboard, working with the PC and the AT. The Model M keyboard, with its layout putting both Shift keys, the Enter key, and the Backspace key, in the locations I was used to from a typewriter was a breath of fresh air.

I'd love it if I could get a Model F keyboard - or, better yet, a beam spring keyboard - with a Model M layout.

But failing that, the Model F keyboards that are available lose more for me in layout than they gain in tactility.

Offline NamelessPFG

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What would be your ideal keyboard?
« Reply #95 on: Sun, 26 September 2010, 23:33:19 »
Take a Maltron, split it into three modules (left hand, right hand, center numpad), refit it with buckling-spring keyswitches, and have full N-key rollover on all of them if possible.

The split keyboard with buckling switches aspect is the most important, and while I know one exists, that's far too expensive for me to even consider. It has to be a split keyboard because I feel the usual combined keyboard approach is limiting my possibilities in setting up an ergonomic desktop space with as little required relocation of input devices as possible. (Trying to set up a simpit that works equally well for normal computing and KB+M gaming is proving to be a pain.)

Offline Daniel Beaver

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What would be your ideal keyboard?
« Reply #96 on: Mon, 27 September 2010, 01:35:49 »
My ideal layout would be compact, with a non-staggered key matrix. A few keys have been re-arranged into location I think are more sensible (for example, the apostrophe and enter key position are swapped, and backspace one row down). Arrow keys and home cluster keys are integrated into the right side of the keyboard. I have never actually tried non-staggered keys, but it seems like it would be a better way of doing things. The current key staggering is just a throwback to typewriters, after all.




Color, for highlighting:



The pictured layout is QWERTY, but keycaps could be re-arranged if an alternate layout was desired. The firmware would be modifiable, allowing you to use a custom layout on whatever computer you plug it into. A dip switch on the back would allow you to swap between two or more custom layouts.

In addition to the layout above, a matching number pad would be sold separately for data entry purposes.

Ideally, one would be able to choose from a multitude of different switches. If I were to manufacture these, Cherry switches would be the most logical choice. But since this is magical la-la land, I would want capacitive buckling spring switches, or beam spring switches. Regular buckling springs with slightly weaker springs (actuating at about 60g) would also work well.

Keys should be double-shot, naturally. AltGr symbols should be dye sublimated. Pad printing would just ruin the aesthetics of the keyboard after it wears off. Extra keys with tactile nubs would be included for Dvorak and colemak users (as well as F and J keys without those nubs). An extra Caps lock key would be included (in case the weird Ctrl location was not appreciated), along with Windows, Mac and Linux meta keys.

An integrated trackpoint would be a sweet addition, especially if a slim form-factor was pursued. The micro switches for the mouse buttons ought to be very nice, as well.

The back of the keyboard would sport a Type B USB port, as well as a PS/2 port, so that either cable could be detatched, and you wouldn't have to fiddle around with a USB-to-PS/2 dongle. Two standard USB ports would also be included, so the keyboard could act as a hub.

An internal bluetooth radio would allow wireless usage, if desired. AA batteries would provide power, for convenience sake. A lithium battery will eventually die out, and might be unreplaceable ten years down the road. I like bluetooth, since all my computers have it, but a wireless dongle would probably be a more sensible solution for most people.


...


Damn, I really want a miniguru now. But that's just as much vaporware is this.
« Last Edit: Mon, 27 September 2010, 01:43:48 by Daniel Beaver »

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Offline noctua

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What would be your ideal keyboard?
« Reply #97 on: Mon, 27 September 2010, 03:44:25 »
for last ergonomic adjustments the experimental test
phase of my ideal keyboard is still running..



(It is rumored that normal keyboard layouts and qwerty user are outdated.. :becky:)
Selfmade Keyboard I (done)
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both use Cherry MX Blue switches, an Teensy++ controller and have an Colemak layout

Offline noctua

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What would be your ideal keyboard?
« Reply #98 on: Mon, 27 September 2010, 04:43:17 »
here the basic layout (Colemak) that i use on the prototype above..

Selfmade Keyboard I (done)
DT225 CH Trackball

Selfmade Keyboard II (95% completed)
L-Trac CST2545W-RC Trackball

both use Cherry MX Blue switches, an Teensy++ controller and have an Colemak layout

Offline squarebox

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What would be your ideal keyboard?
« Reply #99 on: Mon, 27 September 2010, 10:45:13 »
The perfect full size keyboard to me
In Brown Cherry MX

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