Author Topic: Adapting Space Cadet-like Alphas to a New Keyset  (Read 3890 times)

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Offline crykn

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Adapting Space Cadet-like Alphas to a New Keyset
« on: Sat, 14 July 2018, 19:01:24 »
I've been working on a keyset design concept, and I really liked the alphas on the Space Cadet keyboard. However, I know there have already been replica keysets, and I don't want to straight up copy and paste them into a different keyset, especially from such a highly regarded set.

So I've been considering an adaptation of the Space Cadet alphas, with the same concept of Greek letters on the front and additional symbols on top, but with an emphasis on commomly used engineering and math symbols. In addition, the color theme would not be similar to the Space Cadet colors. This would be in the context of an engineering themed keyset.

Would this be poorly received? Or would its adaptation to a slightly different concept be understandable? I definitely don't want to be the subject of community backlash on my first keyset design.

Online LightningXI

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Re: Adapting Space Cadet-like Alphas to a New Keyset
« Reply #1 on: Sun, 15 July 2018, 00:59:51 »
I've been working on a keyset design concept, and I really liked the alphas on the Space Cadet keyboard. However, I know there have already been replica keysets, and I don't want to straight up copy and paste them into a different keyset, especially from such a highly regarded set.

So I've been considering an adaptation of the Space Cadet alphas, with the same concept of Greek letters on the front and additional symbols on top, but with an emphasis on commomly used engineering and math symbols. In addition, the color theme would not be similar to the Space Cadet colors. This would be in the context of an engineering themed keyset.

Would this be poorly received? Or would its adaptation to a slightly different concept be understandable? I definitely don't want to be the subject of community backlash on my first keyset design.

It could be doable, but keep in mind that each of the keys that you have seen in these other adaptations are molded one-by-one, so let's say that the sublegend of the key for the letter I (as in igloo) is the infinity symbol. Then, the mold is specific to that particular letter and sublegend combination, if we are assuming a doubleshot process, such as for GMK keysets.

It should not be motive for backlash, in my opinion to do a math or engineering-inspired keyset. Express yourself freely!

Offline crykn

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Re: Adapting Space Cadet-like Alphas to a New Keyset
« Reply #2 on: Sun, 15 July 2018, 12:30:50 »
I've been working on a keyset design concept, and I really liked the alphas on the Space Cadet keyboard. However, I know there have already been replica keysets, and I don't want to straight up copy and paste them into a different keyset, especially from such a highly regarded set.

So I've been considering an adaptation of the Space Cadet alphas, with the same concept of Greek letters on the front and additional symbols on top, but with an emphasis on commomly used engineering and math symbols. In addition, the color theme would not be similar to the Space Cadet colors. This would be in the context of an engineering themed keyset.

Would this be poorly received? Or would its adaptation to a slightly different concept be understandable? I definitely don't want to be the subject of community backlash on my first keyset design.

It could be doable, but keep in mind that each of the keys that you have seen in these other adaptations are molded one-by-one, so let's say that the sublegend of the key for the letter I (as in igloo) is the infinity symbol. Then, the mold is specific to that particular letter and sublegend combination, if we are assuming a doubleshot process, such as for GMK keysets.

It should not be motive for backlash, in my opinion to do a math or engineering-inspired keyset. Express yourself freely!

Thanks for your opinion! I'm actually targeting PBT dye-sublimated, so I won't have to worry about molds, I just might have difficulty getting front legends.

Offline ideus

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Re: Adapting Space Cadet-like Alphas to a New Keyset
« Reply #3 on: Sun, 15 July 2018, 14:11:32 »
Make a design and open an IC.

Offline zslane

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Re: Adapting Space Cadet-like Alphas to a New Keyset
« Reply #4 on: Sun, 15 July 2018, 15:07:42 »
I think a lot of people would be interested in a set like that. And since you plan to avoid the gray-and-blue colorway of Space Cadet, I don't think anyone will accuse you of copying anything.

Offline crykn

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Re: Adapting Space Cadet-like Alphas to a New Keyset
« Reply #5 on: Sun, 15 July 2018, 22:13:23 »
Make a design and open an IC.

Will do! I just have to figure out the best way to make renders to help bring the design to life.

I think a lot of people would be interested in a set like that. And since you plan to avoid the gray-and-blue colorway of Space Cadet, I don't think anyone will accuse you of copying anything.

Thanks for the feedback. Although I'm not sure how small or large of a deviation it will be from the Space Cadet alphas. I can't wait to do an IC and get more detailed feedback.

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Re: Adapting Space Cadet-like Alphas to a New Keyset
« Reply #6 on: Mon, 16 July 2018, 04:44:45 »
Not going to lie, my interest is quite piqued already.

I am an engineer and absolutely love math symbols.

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Offline ideus

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Re: Adapting Space Cadet-like Alphas to a New Keyset
« Reply #7 on: Mon, 16 July 2018, 08:39:52 »
If you run a GMK OG beige with space cadet symbols I am in. Otherwise, if it is PBT in other profile it may depends on the design and pricing.

Offline zslane

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Re: Adapting Space Cadet-like Alphas to a New Keyset
« Reply #8 on: Mon, 16 July 2018, 12:04:32 »
Thanks for the feedback. Although I'm not sure how small or large of a deviation it will be from the Space Cadet alphas.

I wouldn't worry about that. The Space Cadet alpha legends have been done three times (that I know of), by two different people, with a fourth set on the way (next month, I believe) by a third individual. Other alpha legends, like Cyrillic and Elvish, have also been done numerous times in the past, and yet they are still pretty popular when they appear on new sets. My advice is to just design the set as you would like to have it on your own keyboards and then see how many others are interested in it.

Offline crykn

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Re: Adapting Space Cadet-like Alphas to a New Keyset
« Reply #9 on: Mon, 16 July 2018, 17:08:07 »
Not going to lie, my interest is quite piqued already.

I am an engineer and absolutely love math symbols.

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Might I ask what kind of engineering? I've been considering designing several novelty kits with colors and icons matching different engineering disciplines, which could be added to a color neutral base set. And just to get another engineer's perspective, what kind of symbols would you be interested in seeing that aren't on the Space Cadet alphas?

If you run a GMK OG beige with space cadet symbols I am in. Otherwise, if it is PBT in other profile it may depends on the design and pricing.

Due to the difficulty of producing molds for double shot, and my own preference for PBT, I've been considering targeting the upcoming dye-sublimated SA-P profile (probably all R3 due to simplicity of running my first interest check/group buy). Of course I will adapt to whatever has the most interest. P.S. Nice profile picture!

Thanks for the feedback. Although I'm not sure how small or large of a deviation it will be from the Space Cadet alphas.

I wouldn't worry about that. The Space Cadet alpha legends have been done three times (that I know of), by two different people, with a fourth set on the way (next month, I believe) by a third individual. Other alpha legends, like Cyrillic and Elvish, have also been done numerous times in the past, and yet they are still pretty popular when they appear on new sets. My advice is to just design the set as you would like to have it on your own keyboards and then see how many others are interested in it.

Thanks for the advice. I will just work on my personal vision for the set and then worry about adapting it to popular interest later.

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Re: Adapting Space Cadet-like Alphas to a New Keyset
« Reply #10 on: Mon, 16 July 2018, 17:26:00 »

Might I ask what kind of engineering? I've been considering designing several novelty kits with colors and icons matching different engineering disciplines, which could be added to a color neutral base set. And just to get another engineer's perspective, what kind of symbols would you be interested in seeing that aren't on the Space Cadet alphas?

I have a background in physics and electrical engineering.

As for symbols... I'd love a few more:

- Del or nabla
- Parallel sign ||
- Integral symbols (single, double, triple, line, surface, volume,...)
- Long f (ƒ)
- h bar (ℏ)
- Angstroms (Å)
- dagger symbol

There's a plethora of Greek characters of significance, among them here's just a few...
- Capital sigma / summation
- Capital O for Ω
- Capital Psi
- Lowercase phi
- lowercase sigma

etc...


Offline ideus

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Re: Adapting Space Cadet-like Alphas to a New Keyset
« Reply #11 on: Mon, 16 July 2018, 17:57:34 »

I've been considering targeting the upcoming dye-sublimated SA-P profile



Be aware that Signature Plastics' dye-sublimating process produces warped keys. I sold all the Granite sets I got, but a few samples that I kept in case you need some pictures of the defect. That was with DSA, maybe with the new profile the issue is solved. Who knows.

Offline crykn

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Re: Adapting Space Cadet-like Alphas to a New Keyset
« Reply #12 on: Mon, 16 July 2018, 18:23:02 »
Be aware that Signature Plastics' dye-sublimating process produces warped keys. I sold all the Granite sets I got, but a few samples that I kept in case you need some pictures of the defect. That was with DSA, maybe with the new profile the issue is solved. Who knows.

I should hope that's resolved with the new tooling and the thicker keycaps, but I could check. Although I would be interested in seeing pictures of the defect. The only other downside of the dye-sublimated PBT, in my opinion, is that the legends have to be darker than the keycaps. I was originally hoping for a Dolch or Oblivion kind of color scheme, but too dark of a grey risks poor legend visibility. Did you have the HC Granite and have any comments on readability of the modifiers?

Offline ideus

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Re: Adapting Space Cadet-like Alphas to a New Keyset
« Reply #13 on: Mon, 16 July 2018, 18:30:10 »
Some pictures of my former Granite's. There is a new technique called inverse-dye-sublimting to get light legends on darker colores. Not sure if SP has it yet.





The warping could be observed in this picture. It is easier to see when the caps are mounted on switches and on larger than 1u keys, at the top and bottom. Check the enter key for example.

Offline crykn

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Re: Adapting Space Cadet-like Alphas to a New Keyset
« Reply #14 on: Wed, 18 July 2018, 13:31:53 »
Some pictures of my former Granite's. There is a new technique called inverse-dye-sublimting to get light legends on darker colores. Not sure if SP has it yet.

The warping could be observed in this picture. It is easier to see when the caps are mounted on switches and on larger than 1u keys, at the top and bottom. Check the enter key for example.

I've checked with Signature Plastics and confirmed that the new SA-P tooling is designed to eliminate the warping issues that previous SA or DSA keycaps had. They also said that they probably won't be doing any inverse dye-sublimating.

Offline ideus

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Re: Adapting Space Cadet-like Alphas to a New Keyset
« Reply #15 on: Wed, 18 July 2018, 14:46:11 »
Some pictures of my former Granite's. There is a new technique called inverse-dye-sublimting to get light legends on darker colores. Not sure if SP has it yet.

The warping could be observed in this picture. It is easier to see when the caps are mounted on switches and on larger than 1u keys, at the top and bottom. Check the enter key for example.

I've checked with Signature Plastics and confirmed that the new SA-P tooling is designed to eliminate the warping issues that previous SA or DSA keycaps had. They also said that they probably won't be doing any inverse dye-sublimating.


Good news!

Offline arrowM

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Re: Adapting Space Cadet-like Alphas to a New Keyset
« Reply #16 on: Fri, 22 March 2019, 04:28:36 »
Any update? I'd love to see this.

Offline Sintpinty

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Re: Adapting Space Cadet-like Alphas to a New Keyset
« Reply #17 on: Fri, 22 March 2019, 16:59:23 »
I'd love a space cadet keyboard.
But sadly i cannot afford one.
And the programming and firmware.
 :'(

Offline crykn

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Re: Adapting Space Cadet-like Alphas to a New Keyset
« Reply #18 on: Tue, 26 March 2019, 13:04:57 »
Any update? I'd love to see this.

Unfortunately not, I've moved on from the idea of designing a keyset. My main project is finishing up the keyboard design I've been working on.