Author Topic: SA Keycaps suitability?  (Read 1954 times)

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Offline yunie_

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SA Keycaps suitability?
« on: Sat, 28 July 2018, 04:44:37 »
I was looking at Leopold cherry mx blue full size the other day and wanted to match it with SA keycaps.

The guy at the store told me that SA keycaps will not look nice on the Leopold because the keyboard profile is not flat, and the SA keycap will not appear aligned. it will also cause some discomfort while typing.

Is this true? Is SA keycaps only suitable for flat keyboard profile?

Offline Tactile

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  • Location: Portland, OR
Re: SA Keycaps suitability?
« Reply #1 on: Sat, 28 July 2018, 05:04:40 »
That salesman is just wrong.

Have a look at this.

Offline yunie_

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Re: SA Keycaps suitability?
« Reply #2 on: Sat, 28 July 2018, 07:28:41 »
I get it. How about the rest? Any experience?

Offline zslane

  • Posts: 2124
  • Location: Los Angeles, CA, USA
Re: SA Keycaps suitability?
« Reply #3 on: Sat, 28 July 2018, 11:39:44 »
I type almost exclusively on SA keycaps, and I usually have them on keyboards with your typical amount of slight inherent case tilt. I do not pull out the back feet on any of these keyboards because the normal tilt of the case added to the profile angle provides all the forward tilt I need or care for.

In addition, I don't find SA uncomfortable to type on under any conditions, but it did take a little bit of getting used to at first. Some folks never really get used to SA and end up with a pretty negative opinion of the profile as a result. So as with anything, you'll just have to try it for yourself, cuz your mileage will definitely vary.

Offline Tactile

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  • Location: Portland, OR
Re: SA Keycaps suitability?
« Reply #4 on: Sat, 28 July 2018, 12:23:46 »
You may already be aware but not all SA sets are sculpted, like this:
200916-0

There are SA sets which are all uniform height, usually R3, like this one and this one.

I'm just advising to be aware what you're ordering so you get what you expect.

Offline yunie_

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Re: SA Keycaps suitability?
« Reply #5 on: Sat, 28 July 2018, 13:52:55 »
appreciate all the replies! I'm just getting a little worried about SA keycaps when the salesman mentioned it. I'm pretty new to changing keycaps on my own. But those retro SA keycaps are just too gorgeous  ;D

Offline portbaron

  • Posts: 205
Re: SA Keycaps suitability?
« Reply #6 on: Sat, 28 July 2018, 14:51:48 »
What does he mean the keyboard profile is not flat? The PCB/plate is certainly flat. Leopolds are the same shape as other keyboards. Some just vary a few degrees on the angle of tilt from the front to back of case. This has no effect on whether the caps look aligned, SA is sculpted and makes it's own curve. Just google SA keycaps Leopold if you want to see what it looks like. It will look like SA caps on any keyboard.
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Offline Giorgio

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Re: SA Keycaps suitability?
« Reply #7 on: Sat, 28 July 2018, 18:34:48 »
SA keycaps aren't comfortable.
Your experience will be acceptable only if your press them with absolute precision in the center. You'll need to press that exact point, or else you'll suffer.
Cylindrical profiles don't have that problem, you're free to hit them with less precision.

Offline zslane

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  • Location: Los Angeles, CA, USA
Re: SA Keycaps suitability?
« Reply #8 on: Sat, 28 July 2018, 18:57:29 »
Cylindricals feel "unstable" under my fingers, whereas SA sort of channels my fingertips to the center of the keycap. SA also has a wider top surface area, which means you have more tolerance side to side before your fingers feels like it is "falling off" the keycap than with cylindrical. The only time being off-center a little is a problem is if you have crappy switches.

Offline mimalik

  • Posts: 77
Re: SA Keycaps suitability?
« Reply #9 on: Sat, 28 July 2018, 19:22:01 »
I am SA convert and love them. Moved from GMK, initially took a time to get used to due to height of caps but after few days it was a non issue. Also with SA caps I dont have to apply excess force than GMK and are much easier to type. I have used them on green/blues/clear switches. Keys register much easily than GMK. Personally for me, I needed wrist pad for 112344 for comfort but use R3 w/o them.

Just a fyi, if you want to buy SA caps at reasonable price, PMK/SP just listed SA Nuclear Data back for sale got base + novelties for $150.

https://pimpmykeyboard.com/sa-nuclear-data-keyset/

Offline Giorgio

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  • Location: Italy
Re: SA Keycaps suitability?
« Reply #10 on: Sun, 29 July 2018, 04:55:43 »
Cylindricals feel "unstable" under my fingers, whereas SA sort of channels my fingertips to the center of the keycap. SA also has a wider top surface area, which means you have more tolerance side to side before your fingers feels like it is "falling off" the keycap than with cylindrical. The only time being off-center a little is a problem is if you have crappy switches.

Why would you say that without proof?
SA x and y axis 12.95 mm
CHERRY x axis 12.22mm; y axis 14.7mm

Fingers are more precise in terms of positioning along the x axis, due to their nauture, and less precise along the y axis. So Cherry keycaps feel even bigger than that, since every position along the y axis is a good position. With SA, there is only one precise center, if you hit off from hit, you'll suffer.

SA keycaps don't marry o-rings. Unless you stack ten of them in each keycap, or unless you buy the superbig squishy horrible big o-rings. They work with silent switches though.

Offline zslane

  • Posts: 2124
  • Location: Los Angeles, CA, USA
Re: SA Keycaps suitability?
« Reply #11 on: Sun, 29 July 2018, 11:00:32 »
Yeah, SA keycaps suck when it comes to O-rings. But I think O-rings are a terrible half-solution to silencing an MX switch in any case, so I don't bother with them (I don't type on MX switches anymore for the most part anyway, so the problem of O-rings is a moot one for me).

In terms of the top surface of keycaps, I find horizontal space much more important than vertical space, and so SA's wider top surface provides a superior typing experience for me over cylindrical keycaps.

Offline portbaron

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Re: SA Keycaps suitability?
« Reply #12 on: Sun, 29 July 2018, 15:27:38 »
SA keycaps aren't comfortable.
Your experience will be acceptable only if your press them with absolute precision in the center. You'll need to press that exact point, or else you'll suffer.
Cylindrical profiles don't have that problem, you're free to hit them with less precision.
This is only true for certain switch types in my experience. I have 5 boards now with SA caps, and have tried them on about 10 switch types. To avoid the binding feeling of off center presses you actually want switches with some play I discovered.

For example, on BOX blacks it's pretty noticeable but I don't notice any on zealios or gateron switches. So they actually feel better on 'wobblier' switches to me (I do have them on BOX Navys and I love the feel and sound, and the switches are so stiff anyway I don't notice any difference if pressed off center - different story for box blacks or browns). The whole wobble thing seems overstated to me in general though, as even when I try to move them around from side to side they seem about the same as cherry profile caps anyway. In addition, the general opinion has been that SA caps should go on med-stiff linear switches, but after trying them on everything I prefer them on medium tactile switches or even (gasp) silent reds.

The OP should try them and see what he prefers, or maybe they won't be for him at all. Of course it is an investment with a little risk, but /r/mm.
« Last Edit: Sun, 29 July 2018, 15:29:49 by portbaron »
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Offline Giorgio

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  • Location: Italy
Re: SA Keycaps suitability?
« Reply #13 on: Sun, 29 July 2018, 16:32:18 »
I'll try then on the novatouch. Which by the way has problems to accept standard cherry keys

Offline zslane

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  • Location: Los Angeles, CA, USA
Re: SA Keycaps suitability?
« Reply #14 on: Sun, 29 July 2018, 16:36:56 »
I have three NovaTouches, and the only problem I have encountered with SA is that some of the keys in a set won't be tight enough to stay on their switch sliders. Something needs to be added to the stems to make them stick on better (I have not yet found an optimal solution for this).

Offline mimalik

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Re: SA Keycaps suitability?
« Reply #15 on: Sun, 29 July 2018, 17:24:58 »
I have three NovaTouches, and the only problem I have encountered with SA is that some of the keys in a set won't be tight enough to stay on their switch sliders. Something needs to be added to the stems to make them stick on better (I have not yet found an optimal solution for this).

I have used saran wrap on few switches myself to fix same issue.